Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

Trigger

Anderlecht beating Olymiacos in Extra time so id say they are the final team

Headshot

Im fair delighted for Depay. He was getting some crap pointed at him recently.

Lord TSC

Valencia and Leverkusen have stories (Gary and Javier). Pool...as a mod, pls no.

Would love Dortmund from a "I love watching them play" PoV, but they would kill us.

Mitch Connor

Sand wrote: »

Yep, agreed. Though as I said earlier, the narrative on LVG has shifted so much since November that he no longer will get credit for making good calls like playing Rashford.

Why should he though?

Rooney is injured.
Martial is injured.
He didn't really want Keane in the squad - he was loaned out and would have remained on loan but he asked if he could return - and he only got in the squad because of injuries, and then got injured himself.
Rashford then comes in - its not like LVG had planned to use him, he simply had no one left because of the terribly small squad he created.

You might say the small squad was deliberate to give Rashford a chance (remembering Keane, Wilson and Januzaj were all loaned out) but even though he was, for a time, the third striker at the club he hasn't featured in any form up until this evening.

LVG shouldn;t get credit for resorting to the only fit players he had when evidence suggests that if Fellaini and Martial had been fit then Rashford wouldn't have got a look in. Hell, if Fellaini was fit he probably would have started given LVG described him as our second most experienced forward in the last week or so.

On to tonights game....

Brilliant. A very enjoyable performance and generally good throughout - though I was disappointed with Herrera. Even at the end of the first half I had no complaints - we had played well and were kinda unlucky to go in 1-1.

Main plus point, for me, was Memphis. With Rooney and Martial out we needed him to step up and carry an attacking threat and he produced the best performance of his United career so far. Ran well, was unselfish on the ball and created havoc all night. You could say the opposition were poor and he made the left back look like a sunday league player, but he has been generally so ineffective this season that a performance such as the one he put in tonight is just so damned welcome. I would wager the Arsenal defence are more worried after tonights game than they were this time last week, with respect of Memphis.

Looking forward to the next beautifullyred blog. Gonna be a Memphis explosion.

adox

Headshot wrote: »

Im fair delighted for Depay. He was getting some crap pointed at him recently.

Me too but to be fair a large portion(not all)of it was deserved.

Manutd_4life

StringerBell wrote: »

I'd consider Rashford if Martial is out because his pace and trickery would be a nightmare for Mert, other then that I agree with your point though.

If Martial is out, it should be Rashford in without a doubt. His confidence is booming and a goal for him against Arsenal would be a dream

Jayop

Lord TSC wrote: »

Valencia and Leverkusen have stories (Gary and Javier). Pool...as a mod, pls no.

Would love Dortmund from a "I love watching them play" PoV, but they would kill us.

Our record against top sides is still very good. It's the games against ****e like we played twice this week and the likes of Villa that we've struggled against.

Sand

Headshot wrote: »

Im fair delighted for Depay. He was getting some crap pointed at him recently.

Deservedly in fairness (playing performances, dont give a damn about his fashion sense). If he keeps putting in a shift, and keeps tormenting his fullback, he will get love from the crowd.

Headshot

adox wrote: »

Me too but to be fair a large portion(not all)of it was deserved.

I was kinda pointing to the rubbish about him being a crap buy

Sand

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Why should he though?

Rooney is injured.
Martial is injured.
He didn't really want Keane in the squad - he was loaned out and would have remained on loan but he asked if he could return - and he only got in the squad because of injuries, and then got injured himself.
Rashford then comes in - its not like LVG had planned to use him, he simply had no one left because of the terribly small squad he created.

You might say the small squad was deliberate to give Rashford a chance (remembering Keane, Wilson and Januzaj were all loaned out) but even though he was, for a time, the third striker at the club he hasn't featured in any form up until this evening.

LVG shouldn;t get credit for resorting to the only fit players he had when evidence suggests that if Fellaini and Martial had been fit then Rashford wouldn't have got a look in. Hell, if Fellaini was fit he probably would have started given LVG described him as our second most experienced forward in the last week or so.

This is what I mean when I say the pendulum has swung too far. Its assumed LVG cannot count. That he has no idea who is in the youth squad who might be able to push into the 3rd or 4th choice striker role. Its assumed he didnt take those players into account when starting the season with Rooney and Martial/Memphis as his potential number 9s.

Not saying LVG planned for the outcome or he didnt just get lucky by some fluke, but he gets zero credit for making the right calls playing young players these days. He could have started Memphis in the number 9.

TheDoc

Lithium93_ wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MUFCScoop/status/702972262203396097

First time in weeks I lept of the couch. Incredible performance from him. Lost count after 5 nutmegs

Chagan

Bloody hell, I miss two games through work and we score 8 goals! Think I'll sign up for weekend overtime for the next few months.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

That was fun. It's as simple as that. Most of us won't be reading too much into it, but it was good to have some fun watching the team tonight.

Unsure what to pull me wick off too. The gifs in the thread, or the Memphis highlight reel

Was absolutely dejected the last 10 days, my passion just got re-ignited tonight. Please to **** let it last

StringerBell

Chagan wrote: »

Bloody hell, I miss two games through work and we score 8 goals! Think I'll sign up for weekend overtime for the next few months.

Yes, you must do your duty!

LuckyGent88

Lord TSC wrote: »

Valencia and Leverkusen have stories (Gary and Javier). Pool...as a mod, pls no.

Would love Dortmund from a "I love watching them play" PoV, but they would kill us.

Living in Cologne at the moment and get to see lots of Dortmund. They certainly wouldn't kill us anyway.
Would love to get them or Leverkusen as I could get to the games.

RobertKK

Pro. F wrote: »

That was fun. It's as simple as that. Most of us won't be reading too much into it, but it was good to have some fun watching the team tonight.

So true, it was fun, not work.

Mitch Connor

Sand wrote: »

This is what I mean when I say the pendulum has swung too far. Its assumed LVG cannot count. That he has no idea who is in the youth squad who might be able to push into the 3rd or 4th choice striker role. Its assumed he didnt take those players into account when starting the season with Rooney and Martial/Memphis as his potential number 9s.

Not saying LVG planned for the outcome or he didnt just get lucky by some fluke, but he gets zero credit for making the right calls playing young players these days. He could have started Memphis in the number 9.

If his plan was that these players could step in when others were injured, then it has been terrible management so far this season to not actually include any of them, or use any of them in any way at all until he was forced to through injury. No attempt to get them used to playing with the first team competitively, no attempt to get them used to prepping on match day with the first team - not until he had no choice but to put them in.

Indicates no planning or intention, to me.

RobertKK

They are playing Horny on MUTV.

The return fixture of the next round is currently scheduled for St. Patrick's Day. Unfortunately, there is potential for all-out war in pubs across Ireland if it's United v Pool.

RobertKK

I better remove Martial from my fantasy league team after tonight, but it doesn't sound serious and LVG seemed confident enough saying Martial was smart to come off and not start the game, nothing torn, just a tight hamstring.

v3ttel

I know it was against dross, but Memphis was brilliant. That's the first time he's really looked like the player I'd hope he would be. The lad is seriously talented.

Having him fit, settled, on form (along with Martial) is pretty much essential if we want to achieve anything over the next few years.

Sand

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If his plan was that these players could step in when others were injured, then it has been terrible management so far this season to not actually include any of them, or use any of them in any way at all until he was forced to through injury. No attempt to get them used to playing with the first team competitively, no attempt to get them used to prepping on match day with the first team - not until he had no choice but to put them in.

Indicates no planning or intention, to me.

Bar Rashford, and Riley they have all played for United before this season. I don't argue there is a huge degree of planning (who can tell the future?) but I do think it does indicate a huge trust in the youth setup that it can put forward players who can do a job in the first team against what are very much second rank opposition.

A huge part of the "United Way" myth is bringing youth players through. Rightly or wrongly, LVG has brought youth players through. Its a bizarre detour from the hysteria that greeted the sale of Welbeck which apparently meant the end of the United youth system. TBH, a young ambitious player might get the message that they will get a better chance to develop and play at United than they will at City, Arsenal, Chelsea or Spurs regardless of coaches or facilities. That might not be what the club is aiming for, but it is in line with the claimed aims of the club. LVG will get zero credit for it - it will be assumed he was asking fans to bring their boots to the game in case they were needed.

brinty

Well we all know the secret to tonight's success
Horny football and Kate gifs...
Let's keep it up for Sunday

Jayop

Sand wrote: »

Bar Rashford, and Riley they have all played for United before this season. I don't argue there is a huge degree of planning (who can tell the future?) but I do think it does indicate a huge trust in the youth setup that it can put forward players who can do a job in the first team against what are very much second rank opposition.

A huge part of the "United Way" myth is bringing youth players through. Rightly or wrongly, LVG has brought youth players through. Its a bizarre detour from the hysteria that greeted the sale of Welbeck which apparently meant the end of the United youth system. TBH, a young ambitious player might get the message that they will get a better chance to develop and play at United than they will at City, Arsenal, Chelsea or Spurs. That might not be what the club is aiming for, but it is in line with the claimed aims of the club. LVG will get zero credit for it - it will be assumed he was asking fans to bring their boots to the game in case they were needed.

Not if Mourinho comes in./

Sand

Jayop wrote: »

Not if Mourinho comes in./

Agreed, if Mourinho comes in they might as well retire the youth team and coaches.

Jayop

Sand wrote: »

Agreed, if Mourinho comes in they might as well retire the youth team and coaches.

I'd argue that that alone now could be the biggest stumbling block between him and the gig. Fergie will have a ton of sway in the decision and he loves the kid, Charlton too. Fergie won't be minded by Mourinho's antics, Charlton might but I think the style of play and the kids issue will be the biggest things.

Jayop

citytillidie wrote: »

Looking at the rankings before tonights games Germany could be brought into as well

2 Germany 6/7 76.463
3 England 6/8 72.909
4 Italy 5/6 69.605

Current so far this season
1 Spain 7/7 104.500 14.928
2 Germany 6/7 89.000 12.714
3 Russia 3/5 56.500 11.300
4 England 6/8 87.000 10.875
5 Italy 5/6 64.000 10.666

After tonight
Spain still have all teams in
Germany have lost 2 teams
Russia have lost 1
England still have 6 teams
Italy have lost 2 teams

Robbed this from the Liverpool thread and haven't checked the numbers but it makes for good reading for the English clubs especially given how close Italy were to us at the start of the season. If an English club were to manage to win this and another got close to the final in the CL then we'd be pretty close to Germany and well past Italy.

Maximus Alexander

I'm no LVG apologist and think he is rightly criticized for a lot of things, but I don't understand the claims that he's only giving youth a chance because he's been forced to. Yes, in the most literal sense, the reason so many youth players are in the team is because there are no other options through injury. However, he made the very clearly deliberate choice in the summer to rely on them by keeping the senior squad small and not having more experienced backup options. He went on to stand by this choice in January.

Whether he was right or wrong to do this is certainly up for debate, but it's pretty stupid to claim that he's blundered accidentally into playing academy products because he has no other choice. He made that choice more than 6 months ago.

Sand

Jayop wrote: »

I'd argue that that alone now could be the biggest stumbling block between him and the gig. Fergie will have a ton of sway in the decision and he loves the kid, Charlton too. Fergie won't be minded by Mourinho's antics, Charlton might but I think the style of play and the kids issue will be the biggest things.

I don't think it will - I think Mourinho would be a less than optimal appointment given the claimed aims of the club to play attacking football and bring youth players through, but I dont think the powers that be give a damn about the "United Way" anymore than the fans do when the chips are down. Short term success always trumps long term dynasties as far as most teams are concerned.

Night folks

https://twitter.com/MufcSongs/status/702983925354860545

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

That was fun. It's as simple as that. Most of us won't be reading too much into it, but it was good to have some fun watching the team tonight.

Ah s3y pal did you not hea3. We gonna win the league we gonna win the league :pac:

bucketybuck

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I'm no LVG apologist and think he is rightly criticized for a lot of things, but I don't understand the claims that he's only giving youth a chance because he's been forced to. Yes, in the most literal sense, the reason so many youth players are in the team is because there are no other options through injury. However, he made the very clearly deliberate choice in the summer to rely on them by keeping the senior squad small and not having more experienced backup options. He went on to stand by this choice in January.

Whether he was right or wrong to do this is certainly up for debate, but it's pretty stupid to claim that he's blundered accidentally into playing academy products because he has no other choice. He made that choice more than 6 months ago.

As you allude to though, neither way reflects well on Van Gaal.

He always intended debutants to be his viable squad options? Well our league position and CL exit would suggest it wasn't a good decision, would it not? But if he never expected to be dipping this deep into the well then that doesn't speak to his forward planning and squad management, does it?

I personally don't think throwing kids in last minute is player development anyway, there is more to creating future first team players than just putting them on the field in big games and hoping they don't freeze. This constant refrain of "LVG trusts his youths" gets on my wick really, I suspect if Van Gaal did exactly what Pellegrini did in the FA cup against Chelsea, instead of accusations of forfeiting the game people would spin it as Van Gaal trusting his youths.

To be honest, I do wonder if people in here vastly overstate the whole youth development thing, is it just so they have something to cling to? Seriously, youth development is a means to an end, not the end itself, I would far rather have senior players pushing for titles than loads of kids getting their debuts week after week as we coast to midtable. I would far rather we developed one or two top quality players along side competitive senior pros instead of swathes of kids thrown in at the deep end every week. Do we want to be a youth academy or a title winning side? Southampton or Manchester United? On this very page there are people wary of Mourinho because he might not be kid friendly. Yeah, I'd rather have the titles than the kids thank you very much.

Developing a few kids should be ancilliary to a successful season, not a reason to claim success itself.

CR 7

Lithium93_ wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MUFCScoop/status/702972262203396097

So good that it deserves to be posted in better quality.

jambofc

exhilarating and exciting to see us play with flair and creativity again if we played like that week in week out teams would be scared s###less of us again
fantastic from our young players with freedom and no fear

Bret Hart

Lord TSC wrote: »

Teams going into the pot tomorrow. No seeding or separation by nation.

©Getty Images for UEFA
Teams in the draw tbc
Athletic Club (ESP)
Sevilla (ESP)
Valencia (ESP)
Villarreal (ESP)
Liverpool (ENG)
Manchester United (ENG)
Tottenham (ENG)
Dortmund (GER)
Leverkusen (GER)
Braga (POR)
Sparta Praha (CZE)
Lazio (ITA)
Shakhtar Donetsk (UKR)
Fenerbahçe (TUR)
Basel (SUI)
Olympiacos (GRE)/Anderlecht (BEL)

Fingers crossed we draw Sparta,but if we don't get them then I'd love to get Liverpool,as there also one of the weakest teams left in the competition and they'd both pose little threat too us in the last 16 and it'd be a good chance for Riley,Rashford,Varela,Poole and Pereira too get some much needed experience and playing time.

hufpc8w3adnk65

If the second leg falls on paddys day and we got Liverpool then the mods will need too shut down boards ha ha

Liam McPoyle

MrMac84 wrote: »

If the second leg falls on paddys day and we got Liverpool then the mods will need too shut down boards ha ha

Are games scheduled for that day?

homerjay2005

Only reading back throught the thread now.....so many Kate gifs......

Lovely Bloke

Bret Hart wrote: »

Fingers crossed we draw Sparta,but if we don't get them then I'd love to get Liverpool,as there also one of the weakest teams left in the competition and they'd both pose little threat too us in the last 16 and it'd be a good chance for Riley,Rashford,Varela,Poole and Pereira too get some much needed experience and playing time.

what is this bullshít?

brinty

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Only reading back throught the thread now.....so many Kate gifs......

You started it...
This new cuddlier funny positive version of homerjay is so much more fun...
I think you might be the man to drive the tram....
#positivitytram...

Looks like Martials injury may not be as bad as first thought. Please god he's ok for Arsenal

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Looks like Martials injury may not be as bad as first thought. Please god he's ok for Arsenal

Should he be risked against Arsenal regardless? Its a very short turnaround to a game that we of course want to win, but that probably won't affect our season anyway, so why risk him?

Martial should have been rested weeks and months ago, but surely he should be given a break now that he is carrying a strain, he is still just a kid after all.

Cookie_Dough

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Looks like Martials injury may not be as bad as first thought. Please god he's ok for Arsenal

I hope so too. Though it wouldn't do him any harm to have a rest. I wouldn't mind Memphis playing striker on Sunday if he could play like last night. I know Danish lads (can't spell it ) are much weaker opposition etc but he really seems like this confidence is back. Rushford also impressed me with how he played, especially as he wasn't expecting to be starting.

Liam McPoyle

bucketybuck wrote: »

Should he be risked against Arsenal regardless? Its a very short turnaround to a game that we of course want to win, but that probably won't affect our season anyway, so why risk him?

Martial should have been rested weeks and months ago, but surely he should be given a break now that he is carrying a strain, he is still just a kid after all.

If he has even an inkling of anything then he shouldn't be anywhere near the squad for the game.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Should he be risked against Arsenal regardless? Its a very short turnaround to a game that we of course want to win, but that probably won't affect our season anyway, so why risk him?

Martial should have been rested weeks and months ago, but surely he should be given a break now that he is carrying a strain, he is still just a kid after all.

Fair point, then that's a sure start for Rashford up front then...alongside who?
We are not exactly bursting with options.

It's alot to ask the 18 year old when you think about it...leading the line against Arsenal

Cookie_Dough

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

I hope so too. Though it wouldn't do him any harm to have a rest. I wouldn't mind Memphis playing striker on Sunday if he could play like last night. I know Danish lads (can't spell it ) are much weaker opposition etc but he really seems like this confidence is back. Rushford also impressed me with how he played, especially as he wasn't expecting to be starting.

I would disagree here, keep him way out left where he played last night.
He provided more service into the front men when he did this rather than continuously cutting inside and getting predictably caught out.
Bare in mind he will be up against a better defense but still he looked much more of a threat when he started playing like a proper winger.

I want to see more of that energy and strength he showed also.
He actually looked to win the ball back if he got tackled and lost possesion which was another + point

glued

Would love to see more of Riley, Rashford, Periera etc in the league. They looked much more hungry and confident than the players currently in the side. Some of the play between Memphis and Riley was brilliant last night. Yes the opposition were terrible but that was by far our best performance of the season. Hopefully this good form continues.

secman

Sand wrote: »

I don't think it will - I think Mourinho would be a less than optimal appointment given the claimed aims of the club to play attacking football and bring youth players through, but I dont think the powers that be give a damn about the "United Way" anymore than the fans do when the chips are down. Short term success always trumps long term dynasties as far as most teams are concerned.

And since SAF left ,he hasn't got the gig....why ?
Obviously there are people in the hierarchy who don't want him. God knows he has had plenty of opportunities with our last 2 appointment's records.

citytillidie

Business Cat wrote: »

Are games scheduled for that day?

Yea 1st legs are March 10th 2nd legs March 17th

Maximus Alexander

bucketybuck wrote: »

As you allude to though, neither way reflects well on Van Gaal.

He always intended debutants to be his viable squad options? Well our league position and CL exit would suggest it wasn't a good decision, would it not? But if he never expected to be dipping this deep into the well then that doesn't speak to his forward planning and squad management, does it?

I personally don't think throwing kids in last minute is player development anyway, there is more to creating future first team players than just putting them on the field in big games and hoping they don't freeze. This constant refrain of "LVG trusts his youths" gets on my wick really, I suspect if Van Gaal did exactly what Pellegrini did in the FA cup against Chelsea, instead of accusations of forfeiting the game people would spin it as Van Gaal trusting his youths.

To be honest, I do wonder if people in here vastly overstate the whole youth development thing, is it just so they have something to cling to? Seriously, youth development is a means to an end, not the end itself, I would far rather have senior players pushing for titles than loads of kids getting their debuts week after week as we coast to midtable. I would far rather we developed one or two top quality players along side competitive senior pros instead of swathes of kids thrown in at the deep end every week. Do we want to be a youth academy or a title winning side? Southampton or Manchester United? On this very page there are people wary of Mourinho because he might not be kid friendly. Yeah, I'd rather have the titles than the kids thank you very much.

Developing a few kids should be ancilliary to a successful season, not a reason to claim success itself.

I don't really disagree with most of this, I have criticized him myself for letting so many players leave. I'm always delighted to see young players come through, but not at the expense of the club's competitiveness.

But that's not really the point I was driving at, which was that if people are going to criticize him, criticize him for the right things - there're lots of them! Saying he's not giving youth a chance, but is instead being forced into it is completely wrong headed.