Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

bucketybuck

This game simply reinforced the point that the important thing to take from the Watford game was not Mata placing a free kick, but that the performance had once again been substandard. Forget Matas freekick, forget his red card today, forget even the two results, the important thing is the overall performances and what they say about the team. Many people could see that although we beat Watford we were actually very poor and that we wouldn't get away with playing like that too often. It hasn't taken long to prove the point, and it will be proven again over the next few months.

user2011

bucketybuck wrote: »

This game simply reinforced the point that the important thing to take from the Watford game was not Mata placing a free kick, but that the performance had once again been substandard. Forget Matas freekick, forget his red card today, forget even the two results, the important thing is the overall performances and what they say about the team. Many people could see that although we beat Watford we were actually very poor and that we wouldn't get away with playing like that too often. It hasn't taken long to prove the point, and it will be proven again over the next few months.

I lost myself in arsenal result then I woke up for work Monday morning then it was yeah we scrap the next few results then go back to the LvG crap. Got back to the LvG stuff a bit sooner then I thought.

Just LvG all over this past few weeks getting fans hopes up (even some thinking we were in the title race) then crushing them. LvG end can not come quick enough.

PhlegmyMoses

We all pretty much agree that LVG is probably on his last legs, so I guess we'd be better off discussing stuttering players and where we see them fitting in next year. Depending on whether you subscribe to the idea that it's all LVG's fault or that some players just aren't good enough, we either only need a few new signings this summer or a significant rebuild again.

I'll start it off with Darmian, who has been disappointing after an encouraging start. His crossing would make Valencia blush and he is quite cowardly in attack, going sideways when the opportunity is there to go outside or looping in aimless crosses from a deep standing start rather than taking on his man. This would be moot if he made up for it with excellent defensive contributions. However he regularly gets caught out and finds himself on the wrong side of the referee, having to walk on eggshells for long periods of games as a result. He does have his moments though, and he definitely should not be sold, but when you see what Shaw brought to the table before his injury, it's a comparison that doesn't reflect well on him. I wouldn't be averse to some right back competition being brought in this summer.

Amazingly given the money we have spent in this area, we are lacking in midfield. Schneiderlin has been okay but hasnt been the player we all lusted after at Southampton. I have a feeling he will grow into things though, and we will see more from him as time goes on. Herrera has flattered to deceive at times and struggles to impress himself on games with any kind of regularity. I really like him as a player but the consistency just is not there. Fellaini is not a midfielder and Carrick is at the end of the road. As for Schweinsteiger, I'd say the most damning indictment for him is that you never really hear people wonder about his fitness and clamouring for his return. For a player of his quality and reputation, that says it all about the kind of impact he has had. We somehow need reinforcements in midfield again and will probably have to pay through the nose to really get quality in that area.

In central defence, Blind just isn't physical enough to play there. Today, Rondon had enough of getting bossed by Smalling, moved on to Blind and reaped the rewards. It's such a glaring weakness. Toni is no great shakes and Jones is a permanent crock at this stage so again, we need to add quality straight in to the first eleven.

Finally, the one none of us want to talk about: We're going to lose our goalie. Unless Madrid's hearing comes up before June, they are going to move heaven and earth to get him. And you just can't really replace that. I like lloris a lot, but replacing De gea is a tall order.

I haven't even talked about Lingard and our right wing or our paucity of real options in attack so another big summer is needed to improve this side.

TL;DR: The squad is paper thin and the first XI needs improving in almost all of the key areas.

jayo26

adox wrote: »

Well he obviously wouldn't walk into Van Gaals 11 seeing as Van Gaal didn't fancy him first time around.

secman

Not one bit shocked with today's result... absolutely true to form for the season. LVG really is ready for retirement... it can't come soon enough. The next manager will have to do a bit of a clear out
Jones (sick note), Fellaini, Blind, Young, Valencia and right across the midfield. ... some players coming to the end of good careers.. Carrick , possibly Rooney.
On the plus side. .. some decent youngsters coming through .... Shaw to come back ... and hopefully Dave stays.

The league was there to be won this year by any half decent side , LVG couldn't have had a better chance than this season....

jayo26

secman wrote: »

Not one bit shocked with today's result... absolutely true to form for the season. LVG really is ready for retirement... it can't come soon enough. The next manager will have to do a bit of a clear out
Jones (sick note), Fellaini, Blind, Young, Valencia and right across the midfield. ... some players coming to the end of good careers.. Carrick , possibly Rooney.
On the plus side. .. some decent youngsters coming through .... Shaw to come back ... and hopefully Dave stays.

The league was there to be won this year by any half decent side , LVG couldn't have had a better chance than this season....

Why would we go about clearing out a squad again of useful players??

While I can see the frustration with blind the simple fact is ye is not a centerback its tye managers fault that he is required there i remember blind having a run of games last year at left back and playing really well so if a new manager comes in blind is there as an experienced squad player.

Jones I can agree with he is no benefit when he can't play.

Fellaini by no means is a player we should discard he cost alot of money yes but we are never going to get that back so under a new manager he could still be a useful change of tactic.

Young and valencia are probably not much harm in having around at this stage either if they are fit.

secman

jayo26 wrote: »

Why would we go about clearing out a squad again of useful players??

While I can see the frustration with blind the simple fact is ye is not a centerback its tye managers fault that he is required there i remember blind having a run of games last year at left back and playing really well so if a new manager comes in blind is there as an experienced squad player.

Jones I can agree with he is no benefit when he can't play.

Fellaini by no means is a player we should discard he cost alot of money yes but we are never going to get that back so under a new manager he could still be a useful change of tactic.

Young and valencia are probably not much harm in having around at this stage either if they are fit.

Useful players are not good enough... Wellbeck.. Fletcher... Brown... Cleverly. .Evans...Josh.. were all useful players ... How many of those useful players you want to keep would get into City.. Spurs Arsenal or Chelsea sides ?

Time to get real... and halt the downward spiral of mediocrity. .. we have the spondies

Cantona's Collars

LVG kinda fell into a team that worked due to injuries then managed to fook it all up,basically played today with no CF,Rashford did well there so stuck him on the wing.Schneiderlin and Herrera were steady in midfield so brought in Carrick who played like a moving statue.Memphis was eventually finding form so dropped him.All baffling stuff-no wonder it went the way it did today.Go a goal down and play as if he was happy with that.We actually were ok with 10 men as WBA are no great shakes yet the team was too afraid or instructed to hold what they had.Virtually zero support for anyone who got forward.Carrick pushed on at one stage and actually just got in the way of a potential move by standing and doing sfa 25 yards from goal.This theme just continued and I knew we were never going to score.
Any positivity over the last 2 weeks is gone in one afternoon,the worst thing is all of us expected it.

adox

I'm still actually pissed off about how Van Gaal has handled the squad and the damage done to it, despite spending a fortune.

It's scary to think that not only does the squad need additions so does the first team.

It really is a damning indictment of his reign.

The club is in a lot more trouble than when Moyes was sacked. I can't see them investing the sort of money that's probably needed to get the squad back to being competitive at the highest level. With some investment in the summer, which will undoubtably happen, in the hands of Jose, Utd could perhaps mount a title challenge.

The frustrating thing is it feels like the club sat on its hands and let this happen.
Some serious questions do need to be asked about the running of the club but I doubt they will. It's a farce that we are into March and Van Gaal is still in charge.

Cantona's Collars

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/soccer?iso=20160515T18&p0=302&msg=Louis+van+Gaal%27s+last+game+of+his+career.+Process+completed!&ud=1&font=hand

jayo26

secman wrote: »

Useful players are not good enough... Wellbeck.. Fletcher... Brown... Cleverly. .Evans...Josh.. were all useful players ... How many of those useful players you want to keep would get into City.. Spurs Arsenal or Chelsea sides ?

Time to get real... and halt the downward spiral of mediocrity. .. we have the spondies

Useful players are needed for backup. Blind dont have to be a first team regular to be 9f value to the club. City and arsenal and Barcelona and madrid have their fair share of average players to come in for injuries.

Our squad is small we have less then 20 senior outfield players what we need is keep the players we have within reason and add proper quality to it. A top class center back a top class midfielder and a at least 2 forward players for the right wing and a goal scorer.

PhlegmyMoses

zerks wrote: »

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/soccer?iso=20160515T18&p0=302&msg=Louis+van+Gaal%27s+last+game+of+his+career.+Process+completed!&ud=1&font=hand

No offence meant to you at all, but this kind of thing really doesn't appeal to me. I want LVG gone, it just hasn't worked out but he is a decent man and has had a career to be proud of and this just feels a bit in bad taste.

duffman13

Really disappointed to see players walk straight back in to the team. Varela in particular has been doing really well and he drops Darmian straight back in. Where is all his "match rhythm" bollocks from last year gone? Depay has being improving and he benches him again.

Rayne Wooney

We need 3 or 4 first 11 players let alone the filler players required

The teams we have put out in the last 5 games could be mistaken for mid table PL teams if you didn't know it was United playing

How the blame is divided between Van Gaal and Woodward is anyone's guess, we need a new manager, a DOF and about 6 new players. We have not progressed from the day Moyes was sacked almost two years ago which is a really worrying observation.

Martypants1

Losing to teams like Norwich, Bournemouth, West Brom, Stoke, Swansea, not beating Newcastle in 2 games all in the one season is just unacceptable for Manchester United.

It's not even a surprise anymore. Is there anyone truly annoyed at the loss today because it's not surprising. These away games are tough, but that's when the players that Man Utd can afford and attract are supposed to be the difference. Herrera, cost 30m pounds and is incapable of consistently good performances where he stands out. Fabregas is only 2 years older than him, cost several million less and has racked up a silly number of assists for Chelsea.

Rojo, 2 years older than Evans and performing the same role that he would have carried out. Jonny would have been a great partner with Smalling at CB.

Darmian, brilliant defending but **** me he is absolutely terrible in attack. I really hope this is not what he's capable of or else it was a huge mistake not buying Clyne.

Memphis has not been good this season. Better in the last few games but he's 22 and not performing anything like a winger at Man Utd should do. Deolefeu has produced much more for Everton and shown more potential than Memphis has. All talk about him elsewhere after the last 4 games yet he didn't create one chance from my memory against proper teams like Watford or Arsenal.

Praise given to LVG for rebuilding the squad is premature as I think there's huge holes in this squad.

We have 3 players who can play 2 positions. Herrera is not a DM. Basti, Morgan and Carrick can play DM only. 2 of them are ageing and declining rapidly. We need more big investment here.

Right wing - Lingard is probably good enough for a mid table team but not for us. Mata, not good enough at RW.

Left wing - Martial needs to be at striker so we need more big investment here. Memphis is 22 and hasn't shown much in the PL to suggest he has the quality. Memphis should not be trusted as our starting left winger next year. We need to buy someone proven to give us the quality we need.

The minute, us as fans, start to accept results like this is the day we become Liverpool. We're going on 3 years without a major trophy now and looking at 2 out of 3 years not in the Champions League.

Cantona's Collars

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

No offence meant to you at all, but this kind of thing really doesn't appeal to me. I want LVG gone, it just hasn't worked out but he is a decent man and has had a career to be proud of and this just feels a bit in bad taste.

I posted it but will probably forget about it.But boy will I be pissed off if he is here next season.We need a winner and there happens to be one who wants the job that is available.Giggs can go shite if he feels put out by Jose coming-what has Giggs done to show he deserves a spot in the main seat? Partook in 2 failed managerial reigns at the club,not a qualification I would want on my CV.

PhlegmyMoses

zerks wrote: »

I posted it but will probably forget about it.But boy will I be pissed off if he is here next season.We need a winner and there happens to be one who wants the job that is available.Giggs can go shite if he feels put out by Jose coming-what has Giggs done to show he deserves a spot in the main seat? Partook in 2 failed managerial reigns at the club,not a qualification I would want on my CV.

Just thinking, if LVG is still here after the summer I am unsubbing from this thread. It will be pure poison

Lord TSC

duffman13 wrote: »

Really disappointed to see players walk straight back in to the team. Varela in particular has been doing really well and he drops Darmian straight back in. Where is all his "match rhythm" bollocks from last year gone? Depay has being improving and he benches him again.

Only thing I'd say is we've got Liverpool twice, West Ham in the cup and City in a possible 6 pointer within a very short timeframe. Today was the last chance to rest certain players, so I wouldn't' necessarily give out about some players being "dropped" if the idea was to have them fresher for the next batch of games.

Of course, that doesn't excuse the poor sub decisions (or lack there of)....

Cantona's Collars

Lord TSC wrote: »

Only thing I'd say is we've got Liverpool twice, West Ham in the cup and City in a possible 6 pointer within a very short timeframe. Today was the last chance to rest certain players, so I wouldn't' necessarily give out about some players being "dropped" if the idea was to have them fresher for the next batch of games.

Of course, that doesn't excuse the poor sub decisions (or lack there of)....

If players are in form then they play.Today was a chance to move to within 2 points of Arsenal.Carrick was brought in to replace Schneiderlin and was the worst player on the pitch,Fletcher simply ran the midfield (a man who nearly had to quit the game due to illness).Memphis is finding form and hasn't played much so should have started but was brought on when we were so off the pace he had zero impact.
As much as he is derided,today was the day to bring on Fellaini as a CF later on,the WBA defenders had it too easy and won header after header.At least Fellaini can be a nuisance but no-we spent the time messing around with aimless passing and then knocking high balls in to nobody in particular,story of the season really.

I saw a good comparison earlier: "We are simply a shit Swansea."

Whatsisname

Martypants1 wrote: »

Losing to teams like Norwich, Bournemouth, West Brom, Stoke, Swansea, not beating Newcastle in 2 games all in the one season is just unacceptable for Manchester United.

It's not even a surprise anymore. Is there anyone truly annoyed at the loss today because it's not surprising. These away games are tough, but that's when the players that Man Utd can afford and attract are supposed to be the difference. Herrera, cost 30m pounds and is incapable of consistently good performances where he stands out. Fabregas is only 2 years older than him, cost several million less and has racked up a silly number of assists for Chelsea.

Rojo, 2 years older than Evans and performing the same role that he would have carried out. Jonny would have been a great partner with Smalling at CB.

Darmian, brilliant defending but **** me he is absolutely terrible in attack. I really hope this is not what he's capable of or else it was a huge mistake not buying Clyne.

Memphis has not been good this season. Better in the last few games but he's 22 and not performing anything like a winger at Man Utd should do. Deolefeu has produced much more for Everton and shown more potential than Memphis has. All talk about him elsewhere after the last 4 games yet he didn't create one chance from my memory against proper teams like Watford or Arsenal.

Praise given to LVG for rebuilding the squad is premature as I think there's huge holes in this squad.

We have 3 players who can play 2 positions. Herrera is not a DM. Basti, Morgan and Carrick can play DM only. 2 of them are ageing and declining rapidly. We need more big investment here.

Right wing - Lingard is probably good enough for a mid table team but not for us. Mata, not good enough at RW.

Left wing - Martial needs to be at striker so we need more big investment here. Memphis is 22 and hasn't shown much in the PL to suggest he has the quality. Memphis should not be trusted as our starting left winger next year. We need to buy someone proven to give us the quality we need.

The minute, us as fans, start to accept results like this is the day we become Liverpool. We're going on 3 years without a major trophy now and looking at 2 out of 3 years not in the Champions League.

Agree with alot of this and hate to be that guy but Rojo is 25, Jonny Evans is 28?

Martypants1

Whatsisname wrote: »

Agree with alot of this and hate to be that guy but Rojo is 25, Jonny Evans is 28?

More or less. Rojo is 26 in 2 weeks while Jonny was 28 in January.

Cantona's Collars

Our next 6 games:

Liverpool (A) - Europa League
West Ham (H) - FA Cup
Liverpool (H) - Europa League
Man City (A) - Premier League
Everton (H) - Premier League
Spurs (A) - Premier League

Headshot

zerks wrote: »

Our next 6 games:

Liverpool (A) - Europa League
West Ham (H) - FA Cup
Liverpool (H) - Europa League
Man City (A) - Premier League
Everton (H) - Premier League
Spurs (A) - Premier League

oh wow.

We could be in deep ****

jayo26

Headshot wrote: »

oh wow.

We could be in deep ****

We are in deep sh1t already...

StringerBell

I think we go 5 out of 6 wins in that and a draw. Unbeaten I tells ya.......

titan18

For my muppet transfers team,

I'll go De Gea,

Bellerin, Smalling, Laporte, Shaw,
William Carvalho, Schneiderlin, Kroos,
Sane, Bale,
Martial

and Mourinho as manager

I think that team would be better than porn.

Mantis Toboggan

13 wins from 29 premier league games..
How is this man still in charge?

Martypants1

I'm disappointed Schneiderlin hasn't been given the freedom to reproduce his S'ton form. He wasn't the midfield enforcer for S'ton that impressed the fans enough to want to sign him, it was his ability to run the show. Clipping balls to the wingers while being able to get a tackle in as well.

Martypants1

Tyson Fury wrote: »

13 wins from 29 premier league games..
How is this man still in charge?

Must have dick pics of that chinless kunt of a CEO.

unplayable

awful result today typical utd few steps forward and a big step back.im gutted! 4th looks a real stretch now especially with 2 huge europa games looming.a win today would have been huge! limp in attack too much pressure on rashford.martial has to be central! no schneiderlien was bad decision he and herrera had been doing well.

Mitch Connor

Well, unsurprisingly United were awfull again today - lending credence to the argument the nice attacking play of the previous few games was almost an accident. Suppose you just have to go back to the Arsenal game, after which LVG complain about the performance being too risky and open.

What annoyed me more about Mata's sending off is that it provided an easy excuse for LVG, which he gleefully took post match. Nothing in the performance of Carrick, Herrera, Darmian or Blind in particular would have led me to believe we would have done much better with 11 men. Blind did my nut in all game - 4 big defenders? Let me lump the ball 60 yards to an isolated forward every single time I get the ball. Absolutely shocking.

A predictably abysmal performance and result.

Funny that it came the day the mirror ran a story saying LVG was staying for next season and Giggs was going to take over after. IMmediately we see the type of game that should see LVG sacked immediately, never mind even given to the summer.

Similar performance level over the next two weeks will see us dumped out of both remaining cups and humiliated in the league.

KH25

Mata's card did us no favours but I don't think it was the reason we lost. Martial was isolated for so much of the game and we kept firing long balls to him in desperation. LVG waited far too long to bring Memphis on and then putting on Fosu Mnsah as our last sub when we were chasing the game was just stupid. Carrick and Schneiderlin doesn't work. Hererra should have stayed and Carrick should have gone, he was poor all game.

JIdontknow

Teams find ways to play with 10 men, I don't see the sending off as an excuse at all. To be honest it didn't ever look like a game we would win even with 11 men. As said above winning the ball at the back and lumping it 50 yards forward for a lone striker to try win it, with NO support at all was a joke. We had 1 shot on target, just like against Crystal palace.

RobertKK

The sending off didn't help, but the team lacked the speed and sharpness of some of the earlier part of their 4 game winning streak.

The_Kew_Tour

It was awful but predictable.

And I would say we have only about 5% chance of Top 4 now, even though I felt it was tough before weekend

Not even looking forward to the big game during the week sigh how sad is that ive lost my blind optimism for stuff...

Martypants1

Deleted User wrote: »

Not even looking forward to the big game during the week sigh how sad is that ive lost my blind optimism for stuff...

We've been lucky in the liverpool games, it'll probably even itself out this week and next.

JaMarcusHustle

1 shot on target is unacceptable at any level. It wouldn't be good enough for a lower league team playing a top 4 PL team, let alone us playing West Brom.

StringerBell

It does happen though. Isolated incidents of those things are not a big deal, regularity of poor chance creation and shooting accuracy is a problem obviously.

intellectual dosser

The reality is that Watford should have beaten us, yesterday was no great surprise. There's every chance we could go 0-4 over the next two weeks with the way things are.

Mitch Connor

StringerBell wrote: »

It does happen though. Isolated incidents of those things are not a big deal, regularity of poor chance creation and shooting accuracy is a problem obviously.

It does happen and isolated incidents are not a massive deal.

It isn't isolated at United though.

Poor chance creation is very common for United under LVG. Sunday was no one off performance - it was far more in keeping with form over the season in general than the recent run of 'good form'.

Canadel

Headshot wrote: »

oh wow.

We could be in deep ****

jayo26 wrote: »

We are in deep sh1t already...

Lowering expectations is the only thing Van Gaal has succeeded in.

Nalz

Martypants1 wrote: »

We've been lucky in the liverpool games, it'll probably even itself out this week and next.

I'll be telling all my nuetral mates to pile the cash on the Pool.

They're a stronger unit than us (wow I just said that) and have way less injuries.

It will be tight but they'll end up the winners over two ties.

zerks wrote: »

Our next 6 games:

Liverpool (A) - Europa League
West Ham (H) - FA Cup
Liverpool (H) - Europa League
Man City (A) - Premier League
Everton (H) - Premier League
Spurs (A) - Premier League

Geuniely, would anyone put a score on us winning any one of those games? We might fluke Everton at home or Pool at home in the Europa.

We're fuuked

The_Kew_Tour

Only consolation about Liverpool game is that pressure will be on them.

Our season is goosed, they have everything going for them now.

Even if we do win it we get beat in QF

Skylinehead

titan18 wrote: »

For my muppet transfers team,

Bellerin

Did I miss a story to laugh at or something?

bucketybuck

I've long suspected that we are going to fizzle out over the rest of the season, I've had no real hope of any form of success at all. There are no more league one sides to look good against now, there is no sparkling football going to appear as if by magic. Instead we are just going to see the same drab football interspersed with the odd good result as we tick along to 5th or 6th place. The Watford and West Brom performances were performances we have been seeing for 2 years, there wasn't really any surprises there.

So when I look at fixture lists its hard to get worked up one way or another, we all know where this ends anyway. There is no corner to be turned and anybody still waiting for the Van Gaal experiment to finally "click" is just deluding themselves. Its been 2 years, this is it, this is what he has created.

We will probably beat Liverpool, and have another little 3 game run near the end of the season where we attack with a bit of pace and win a few games. It won't mean anything. Until the board pull their finger put and do what needed to be done a year ago its all just marking time.

Canadel

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Only consolation about Liverpool game is that pressure will be on them.

Our season is goosed, they have everything going for them now.

Even if we do win it we get beat in QF

How do you figure that?

They just lost the LC final, are out of the FA Cup, and are behind Utd in the league. I'd hardly call that having everything going for them. They have a better manager but that's about it.

jayo26

Canadel wrote: »

Lowering expectations is the only thing Van Gaal has succeeded in.

Well done lvg great guy.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Only consolation about Liverpool game is that pressure will be on them.

Our season is goosed, they have everything going for them now.

Even if we do win it we get beat in QF

I'd take that right now

No one is stopping Dortmund in it id wager...

Cantona's Collars

25 points dropped against teams from the bottom half of the table,just let that sink in.