Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

Martypants1

If Adnan doesn't start this weekend I will be annoyed. Time for Memphis and Mata to sit on the bench. Lingard on the right, Adnan on the left.

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

The manager is in charge of cutting the squad. The manager ships out who he wants, LVG wanted a smaller squad but shipped out too many good players and replaced them with inferior players.

Woodward gets the go ahead from the manager of who he wants to buy and sell.

You'll figure it out eventually.

bangkok

Liam O wrote: »

Your mates Keane and Scholes weren't adverse to similar moves. Is it ok to justify that because they were better than Fellaini or is it only wrong when he does it?

if fellaini was as good as either it would be accepted by most, but he is not. Same with Cantona, same as Zidane, same as Ronaldo. All brilliant players that can blow the fuse sometimes and you just have to accept it.

MD1990

zerks wrote: »

Outrage for the sake of it as usual.This stuff happens every time these clubs meet.City do it about Munich,Liverpool do aswell yet you don't see page after page of self righteous handwringing from United fans.
Self pity as usual,they cant even celebrate beating their fiercest rivals without being obsessed about them and a few morons chanting.BTW the "Murderers" chant was always about Heysel,it was never about Hillsborough yet somehow that has been twisted to suit an agenda-not saying it is right to chant about dead fans just putting out a fact.

It was louder last night as an 8pm kick off gives fans a chance to get tanked up and that along with watching a rubbish United display is going to lead to many more getting caught up in the moment and join in-it is a tribal thing,football fans chant bad things.It happens.

so singing songs about Hillsborough/Heysel just happens.:rolleyes:

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

You'll figure it out eventually.

One day you'll take the blinkers off.

So your telling me Woodward is dictating to LVG the players who are going to be brought in? How do you know did this? have you phone taps or something.

The truth is you don't. LVG isn't the type to be told how ot manage his squad and has always worked with smaller squads at every club he has managed, its how he likes to work. He has brought in three players he has worked with before. Moyes brought in Fell for the same reason.

The managers 100% dictate transfers at UTD. LVG has made a balls of his tbh.

The only player I'll give you is Falcao. Woodward maybe working on a superstar signing on the side via Mendes in addition to the list the manager has given him. He would still run these by the manager and keep him informed.

Nobody complained about Falcao and nobody would complain if Neymar was brought in as one of Woodwards superstar signings.

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

So your telling me Woodward is dictating to LVG the players who are going to be brought in?

No, I'm not.

Liam O

Martypants1 wrote: »

If Adnan doesn't start this weekend I will be annoyed. Time for Memphis and Mata to sit on the bench. Lingard on the right, Adnan on the left.

Yep, the idea of large scale changes every game has worked so far, let's keep it going!

Mata is cup tied afaik.

Fellaini and Herrera in the middle with Carrick or Schneiderlin(He can't be as bad as he's played these last few months) behind Rashford, Lingard and Memphis. I don't care about the FA Cup too much and to have any chance of overturning the deficit next week it has to be Martial and Mata through the middle as they are the team's best attacking players and having them a little rested would be the only way of getting back into the game.

Speak Now

zerks wrote: »

Outrage for the sake of it as usual.This stuff happens every time these clubs meet.City do it about Munich,Liverpool do aswell yet you don't see page after page of self righteous handwringing from United fans.
Self pity as usual,they cant even celebrate beating their fiercest rivals without being obsessed about them and a few morons chanting.BTW the "Murderers" chant was always about Heysel,it was never about Hillsborough yet somehow that has been twisted to suit an agenda-not saying it is right to chant about dead fans just putting out a fact.

It was louder last night as an 8pm kick off gives fans a chance to get tanked up and that along with watching a rubbish United display is going to lead to many more getting caught up in the moment and join in-it is a tribal thing,football fans chant bad things.It happens.

Ah come on now both sides have cretins in their support and lets not pretend "The Sun was right, you're murderers" is about anything else but Hillsborough. As if songs about Heysel are acceptable. Both clubs need to make a concerted effort here. If anyway possible those chanting last night and the Liverpool fans who will bite back with the Munich song next week need to be identified and be given stadium bans. Football is passionate but people need to know where the line in the sand is.

Liam O

bangkok wrote: »

if fellaini was as good as either it would be accepted by most, but he is not. Same with Cantona, same as Zidane, same as Ronaldo. All brilliant players that can blow the fuse sometimes and you just have to accept it.

So rules should apply based on talent. Grand.

Martypants1

Liam O wrote: »

Yep, the idea of large scale changes every game has worked so far, let's keep it going!

Mata is cup tied afaik.

Fellaini and Herrera in the middle with Carrick or Schneiderlin(He can't be as bad as he's played these last few months) behind Rashford, Lingard and Memphis. I don't care about the FA Cup too much and to have any chance of overturning the deficit next week it has to be Martial and Mata through the middle as they are the team's best attacking players and having them a little rested would be the only way of getting back into the game.

Memphis is utter crap. Why hasn't Adnan been given the same opportunity as Memphis?

Memphis might look the part of a superstar but he is cack.

Don't play Adnan on the right, he is **** on the right. He's shown his quality on the left under Moyes and LVG has never given him an extended run there. Memphis just infuriates me...he does absolutely nothing positive. Literally the only positive thing he did last night was the touch to get Lovren yellow.

Cantona's Collars

MD1990 wrote: »

so singing songs about Hillsborough/Heysel just happens.:rolleyes:

I take it you have never been to a Liverpool v United game?

This argument starts every time these clubs meet,it will be forgotten and we will all move on.As I said it may not be right to chant stuff like that but it happens.

54and56

"In the end, Manchester United was lucky to get nil." - http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/sport/liverpool-manchester-united-europa-league/index.html?eref=edition What do CNN know about football? :rolleyes:

billo.d86

Martypants1 wrote: »

If Adnan doesn't start this weekend I will be annoyed. Time for Memphis and Mata to sit on the bench. Lingard on the right, Adnan on the left.

Adnan's head hardly fits through the door these days. He is full of it and does nothing to back it up on the pitch much like Memphis

Martypants1

billo.d86 wrote: »

Adnan's head hardly fits through the door these days. He is full of it and does nothing to back it up on the pitch much like Memphis

I don't think Adnan or Pereira are happy under LVG.

They'll be delighted to see the back of him. Even pereira deserves a prolonged chance over Memphis now.

billo.d86

Liam O wrote: »

Yep, the idea of large scale changes every game has worked so far, let's keep it going!

Mata is cup tied afaik.

Fellaini and Herrera in the middle with Carrick or Schneiderlin(He can't be as bad as he's played these last few months) behind Rashford, Lingard and Memphis. I don't care about the FA Cup too much and to have any chance of overturning the deficit next week it has to be Martial and Mata through the middle as they are the team's best attacking players and having them a little rested would be the only way of getting back into the game.

Mata isnt Cup tied but he is suspended because he acted like a child against West Brom.

Rashford has to play through the middle as Martial doesnt look like a natural poacher. He needs a ball over the top to run on to or run at defenders.
We dont play like that anymore.

Herrera at 10 instead of Mata. Rashford ST Lingaard Right and Martial Left.
Schweinstiger and Schnerderlin sitting as Carrick useless.

Put Darmian at Right back because Payet will destroy Varela.

bucketybuck

Reading these posts one thing is evident. Two years in and we still have no idea what Uniteds best eleven actually is, not even for who would be playing but where they would be playing. Such an utter failure of management.

And as I mentioned last night, as abject as we were attacking wise whats worse is that there was absolutely nothing we could do to change it, we didn't even have a striker to bring on to try and snatch a goal. Thats some fine squad building right there.

Talk about individual players all you want, the failures in this club are all on the sideline.

Liam O

billo.d86 wrote: »

Mata isnt Cup tied but he is suspended because he acted like a child against West Brom.

Rashford has to play through the middle as Martial doesnt look like a natural poacher. He needs a ball over the top to run on to or run at defenders.
We dont play like that anymore.

Herrera at 10 instead of Mata. Rashford ST Lingaard Right and Martial Left.
Schweinstiger and Schnerderlin sitting as Carrick useless.

Put Darmian at Right back because Payet will destroy Varela.

Yet again someone calling Carrick useless and advocating Schneiderlin. Carrick has been much better than Schneiderlin this season, even though he's 35 and not at the level he used to be.

RobertKK

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

"In the end, Manchester United was lucky to get nil." - http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/sport/liverpool-manchester-united-europa-league/index.html?eref=edition What do CNN know about football? :rolleyes:

They love Man Utd.

I do watch CNN, they seem to always have Man Utd news in their sport news ticker, more than any other team.

Trigger

Your Airbag wrote: »

One day you'll take the blinkers off.

So your telling me Woodward is dictating to LVG the players who are going to be brought in? How do you know did this? have you phone taps or something.

He's telling you that Woodward can get rid of the dead weight that is LVG. Thought that was pretty obvious

Flint Fredstone

Just on Fellaini, I don't get where people are coming from with his performance last night. He was nowhere near as bad as some of them.

Here is all his involvement in the second half, good and bad.
Nothing special but it doesn't warrant all the criticism.

http://sendvid.com/wdnetoku

bangkok

Liam O wrote: »

So rules should apply based on talent. Grand.

you tolerate it.

some of the best players in the world have short tempers, but you don't mind as they win you lots of games and are more positive for the team than negative.

bangkok

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Just on Fellaini, I don't get where people are coming from with his performance last night. He was nowhere near as bad as some of them.

Here is all his involvement in the second half, good and bad.
Nothing special but it doesn't warrant all the criticism.

http://sendvid.com/wdnetoku

unreal first touch at 1.27

Liam O

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Just on Fellaini, I don't get where people are coming from with his performance last night. He was nowhere near as bad as some of them.

Here is all his involvement in the second half, good and bad.
Nothing special but it doesn't warrant all the criticism.

http://sendvid.com/wdnetoku

That almost makes it look like he wasn't losing the ball everytime he got it!

Flint Fredstone

bangkok wrote: »

unreal first touch at 1.27

See that's typical. You focus on the one really bad mistake, I could have left that out of the edit but that would just make me like you.

Nothing to say about the rest?

Pro. F

BMMachine wrote: »

sorry but it does. It showed that he was sloppy and couldn't retain and control possession and win the ball back. Which is exactly what happened when I watched the game with my eyes. The stat happens to back up what I saw, thats why Im using it.

So then, by that logic, you must also think that Vidal (40.9% duels won over all league games this season) and Marchisio (39.3%) are unable to control possession and win the ball back. You would also be wrong there.

Xavi Alonso is on 43.93% this season, he's kind of good. Pirlo (43.52%) and Vidal (43.96%) both had pretty good 13/14 Seria A seasons. But it looks like your interpretation of that stat would say they were all unable to control possession and win the ball back. Again, your opinion is wrong on all these players.

A year ago you were saying that Lucas was one of Liverpool's most valuable players link. Yet over the course of that season (14/15) his duels won rate was 40.91%. Jordan Henderson played in 35 league games over the course of the 13/14 season - Liverpool's best in years - and he finished that season with 40.26% of duels won. Was he unable to control possession and win the ball back that season?

Or is it that you have just misunderstood the significance of the Duels Won stat. Yes, that is it. That is exactly what has happened.

(All stats taken from Squawka Comparison Matrix)

BMMachine wrote: »

yeah thats true. But the whole "oh I cant take you seriously" schtick - come on. Its not like Im alone on this and its not like that those stats and those other opinions mean nothing, like it or not

You can believe me or not. I do not take opinions written by the majority of journalists and your interpretation of stats as serious measures of quality in football.

Liam O

Get Pro F'd up.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

Direct from Sky Sports..

"I have to say Fellaini was one of the best players on the pitch," Van Gaal proclaimed after the defeat - cue social media eruption in amazement.
The imposing Belgian played in his usual abrasive style, and was a useful tool at the back when defending set-pieces, but otherwise he was a microcosm of United's lack of cohesion, and didn't seem to know where he was playing.

He was by no means the only weak link in the United side, but the stats hardly add any resonance to Van Gaal's claims. Fellaini won less than half of his duels, won only one tackle all game and lost the ball 20 times - the joint-most of any player of the pitch.
And the most damning stat of all - without Fellaini, United have won 68.4 per cent of their matches in all competitions since the Belgian's arrival at M16; with him in the side, it is a 34.6 per cent success rate. Ouch."

So now you know to ignore the opinions of that journalist on football in the future. I don't know what is so hard to understand about this.

deaddonkey15

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

See that's typical. You focus on the one really bad mistake, I could have left that out of the edit but that would just make me like you.

Nothing to say about the rest?

The rest was mainly made up of bits of play that would be the absolute minimum expected of a Manchester United midfielder, fouls, and a header that went wide. One of the clips in that video was Fellaini receiving a pass from Rojo, taking a heavy touch and then playing it straight back to him. I don't really know what the point of that video is.

Martypants1

State of this

Trigger

Pro. F wrote: »

Stats post

jayo26

We should of kept Welbeck last night would of been different.

BMMachine

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

The same few posters every time. Anything for a good old whinge or a collective swipe, and no, I'm not making light of what happened, I just know a lot of that outrage is formulated and coming from the wrong place.

Please, do let us know what the correct procedure is so that we can properly react to songs about us being murderers without causing you any hassle.

I know that it's a minority of the away support and just frankly idiots doing it. It reflects badly on everyone and makes football fans in general appear stupid and ignorant. No one looks for that 'to get digs in' so get that notion right out of your heads and stop thinking backwards. Accept it for what it is - toxic morons being toxic

billo.d86

Liam O wrote: »

Yet again someone calling Carrick useless and advocating Schneiderlin. Carrick has been much better than Schneiderlin this season, even though he's 35 and not at the level he used to be.

Im not advocating Schneiderlin over Carrick, I'm advocating Schweinstieger.
Schweinstieger is better than Carrick can get around the pitch more has better range of passing. More of a goal threat.

Schneiderlin is there instead of Fellaini who cant play in that role. He is the only player we have that can tackle.

duffman13

Gk De Gea - Top Quality Romero - great backup

RB - Varela/Darmian good options (when fit)

CB - Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Blind, McNair Really poor selection to chose from bar Smalling

LB Shaw/CBJ Good options with Darmian to cover

Wingers - Depay, Valencia, Adnan, Lingard, Martial and Young. Young and Val are good back ups but the rest are all potential right now.

CM - Scweinsteiger, Carrick, Schneiderlin, Fellaini and Herrera. Really underwhelming and lacks creativity bar maybe the inconsistent Herrera.

AM - Mata/Pereira Would like to see Pereira get more time.

ST- Rooney, Rashford, Martial. Rooney well past the peak and Martial and Rashford still very much in developmental phase. Hoping they continue their promising starts.

When you go through the squad we don't have dross but we have players who bar De Gea and possibly Smalling would not get into a top team. A lot of potential but we are a long way from seeing that potential realised. This summer is going to be huge for us, we need to get it right and we need LVG gone to get some proven players in. A lot of these players should be only playing in rotation for a club like United.

I've been in the LVG camp for a long time but getting up at 3am local time here to watch United lose to the likes of West Brom and Norwich really pushes you over the edge. The squad is ok but we need first team players not squad players. How we've played most of the season with one of Blind/Carrick at centre back is crazy.

I would actually be happy too see Warren Joyce or anybody given the job just to give me some hope that I will see some enjoyable football every now and again

bangkok

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

See that's typical. You focus on the one really bad mistake, I could have left that out of the edit but that would just make me like you.

Nothing to say about the rest?

like the very first pass?
the wild kick on moreno?
the pull on coutinho?
the terrible control at 1.27?
the attempt of a header, a player of his size should be doing better?

Flint Fredstone

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

The rest was mainly made up of bits of play that would be the absolute minimum expected of a Manchester United midfielder, fouls, and a header that went wide. One of the clips in that video was Fellaini receiving a pass from Rojo, taking a heavy touch and then playing it straight back to him. I don't really know what the point of that video is.

It's every instance in the second half he was involved with the ball. For reasons of bias I didn't leave any out. The point is, it wasn't as horrific as a lot of people seem to think it was.

Pro. F

Rob Thomas wrote: »

Maybe empty promises is a better phrase!!

"Unfortunately, we are still going through complicated moments. I know that you don’t need to read more posts like this one, or more words from me or my team-mates trying to explain every game. I know that you need wins, and obviously we need them too. But I take this weekly encounter with you to tell you that I’m sure things are going to change"

From his blog two weeks ago.

I'm just frustrated with the whole mentality around those players. Carrick comes out after games and says we must do better as well - but these are the guys who are supposed to drive the team every week and their own performances are cowardly. The best performance recently was Arsenal and it was all young players who played with a bit of committment and pride.

What do you want them to say? Or is it that you want them to not say or write anything?

Maximus Alexander

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

See that's typical. You focus on the one really bad mistake, I could have left that out of the edit but that would just make me like you.

Nothing to say about the rest?

He rode bangkok's missus, you can hardly blame the chap for hating him.

Pro. F

MD1990 wrote: »

so singing songs about Hillsborough/Heysel just happens.:rolleyes:

Yes and apparently Liverpool fans like it because it gives them a chance to moan. That is the logic being used.

Pro. F

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

It's every instance in the second half he was involved with the ball. For reasons of bias I didn't leave any out. The point is, it wasn't as horrific as a lot of people seem to think it was.

You made that yourself? Fair play. Whether people agree or disagree with your conclusion, it's great to have that level of detail put into a discussion.

As a matter of interest, what video editing software do you use?

Martypants1

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

It's every instance in the second half he was involved with the ball. For reasons of bias I didn't leave any out. The point is, it wasn't as horrific as a lot of people seem to think it was.

Can you do one for all Memphis touches last night?

Cantona's Collars

Here is a thought,we all know LVG goes into minute detail on players performances and they have post mortems on them.Maybe this is making the players nervous about actually trying anything that resembles creativity as they are afraid a mistake will lead to admonishment.
Take the Irish rugby team as an example,they are being criticised for stilted unadventurous play much the same as United are.The rumours from current players to former team mates and friends is that even the slightest mistake leads to harsh criticism from the coach and as a result players become even more reluctant to try anything and make even more basic mistakes as they have what might come after the game in their mind rather than concentrating on what they are good at.

bucketybuck

Do one for our corners last night.

Flint Fredstone

Pro. F wrote: »

You made that yourself? Fair play.

As a matter of interest, what video editing software do you use?

It's just Windows Movie Maker, no frills, just split and remove.

Maximus Alexander

bucketybuck wrote: »

Do one for our corners last night.

Pro. F

zerks wrote: »

Here is a thought,we all know LVG goes into minute detail on players performances and they have post mortems on them.Maybe this is making the players nervous about actually trying anything that resembles creativity as they are afraid a mistake will lead to admonishment.
Take the Irish rugby team as an example,they are being criticised for stilted unadventurous play much the same as United are.The rumours from current players to former team mates and friends is that even the slightest mistake leads to harsh criticism from the coach and as a result players become even more reluctant to try anything and make even more basic mistakes as they have what might come after the game in their mind rather than concentrating on what they are good at.

That's a sensible theory imo.

From what I understand Fergie used to get it all over and done with in the dressing room, and then act like everybody had a clean slate at the next training session. So the psychological effect was to put bad performances behind them and also to not let them rest on the laurels of good ones.

Flint Fredstone

I have work to do lads, the Fellaini topic annoyed me into wasting 20 minutes doing that.
There's links out there for the match, it's easily done if you want to do it yourselves.

BMMachine

Pro. F wrote: »

So then, by that logic, you must also think that Vidal (40.9% duels won over all league games this season) and Marchisio (39.3%) are unable to control possession and win the ball back. You would also be wrong there.

Xavi Alonso is on 43.93% this season, he's kind of good. Pirlo (43.52%) and Vidal (43.96%) both had pretty good 13/14 Seria A seasons. But it looks like your interpretation of that stat would say they were all unable to control possession and win the ball back. Again, your opinion is wrong on all these players.

A year ago you were saying that Lucas was one of Liverpool's most valuable players link. Yet over the course of that season (14/15) his duels won rate was 40.91%. Jordan Henderson played in 35 league games over the course of the 13/14 season - Liverpool's best in years - and he finished that season with 40.26% of duels won. Was he unable to control possession and win the ball back that season?

Or is it that you have just misunderstood the significance of the Duels Won stat. Yes, that is it. That is exactly what has happened.

(All stats taken from Squawka Comparison Matrix)

ok thats fair. the duels won stat isn't too important. I actually put it out as just another example (I think I was asked for another stat?) but those examples above still have no bearing on how Fellaini played last night. He was his usual sloppy self and provided nothing positive, except the very basics - sometimes. He was still the guy running around like a headless goose and he was still the guy watching the game go on around him and getting done by every Liverpool player. He was still awful and still the poster boy of Uniteds slump - overpriced, confused, sloppy and directionless.

pro f wrote:

You can believe me or not. I do not take opinions written by the majority of journalists and your interpretation of stats as serious measures of quality in football.

yeah same, Ive worked in media and as a journalist and I know the score in that regard. Even still, was talking to a Utd fan I know this morning who watched the game, same guy plays at a semi-pro level (heart issue which stopped him going full time ) and got him to have a read of this thread and he honestly couldnt believe the amount of people saying Fellaini wasn't bad. I won't say his exact words as I think they were exaggerated but you get the picture. Honestly Im done talking about Fellaini now, as I said I doubt he will be there come august and will probably end up back at everton and back to running into people at Goodison Park. Either that or I could see him end up playing in Turkey or worse - Sunderland

Cookie_Dough

How come Mata was captain last night? I though Mikey Smalling was our 3rd captain? Has something changed. Not that it matters but I'm just curious.

bangkok

I seen the elbow, didn't see the stamp as well!! :eek:

https://vine.co/v/iHgIxjhH0lE