Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

adox

Anyone know the reasoning behind Rojo starting off in the centre with Blind at LB for the first couple of minutes?

Seemed very odd.

Headshot

zerks wrote: »

So you don't agree with LVG that the fans enjoyed today?

Delusion thy name is Louis

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

You just have a preconceived notion of Fellaini, so you see everything he does differently. Maybe like with me and Carrick I think he is dog****, and everything he does I only see the negative in it.

But the difference between us is once in a while I'll share my Carrick hatred, but not the point where it becomes parody.

But Carrick looks for the ball, is easily our best passer of the ball, had more passes today than any player. Fellaini was hiding, some of the positions he took up were Sunday league standard.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

some of the positions he took up were Sunday league standard.

Probably just doing what Van Gaal tells him to then.

glued

The fans that boo Fellaini are a disgrace tbh.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Probably just doing what Van Gaal tells him to then.

One thing you are always told as a player is you should always be in a position to get the ball, or give the player on the ball an option. He did neither and was one of the reasons he got booed off today.

adox

adox wrote: »

Anyone know the reasoning behind Rojo starting off in the centre with Blind at LB for the first couple of minutes?

Seemed very odd.

Unlesss the expected the hammers to line up differently I couldnt think of anything

Donnielighto

bangkok wrote: »

But Carrick looks for the ball, is easily our best passer of the ball, had more passes today than any player. Fellaini was hiding, some of the positions he took up were Sunday league standard.

Mata, Herrera or schweinstieger? Easily is off the mark. Your opinions on fel, really just one opinion dressed differently, can really just be discounted as you can't look at him objectively. Your posting means that you are starting to get the same treatment from posters as you give to fellaini, it's more justifiable when applied to you IMO.

Donnielighto

Missed the thread for a while, where are gowl and homer?

I'll try to explain what you sound like Bangkok.. Lets say you had a opposite alter ego.

"I thought Fellaini was class today, totally controlled the game, his chip of the goalkeeper for his hatrick was beautifull and it was great to hear him go off to a standing ovation" Well Done Fellaini.

Vic Vinegar

Donnielighto wrote: »

Missed the thread for a while, where are gowl and homer?

Gowl is on holiday, not sure about Homer.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/709081198392426496

Remember the time if we failed to win 2 in 34 it would be a crisis? That stat above is damning.

adox

Vic Vinegar wrote: »

Gowl is on holiday, not sure about Homer.

Homers on holiday too but don't think he's going to come back.

Cantona's Collars

He has often been a scapegoat for United ever since he signed but there should have been no place for Marouane Fellaini in that team. Van Gaal picked a team with a quick front three and a mobile, energetic and creative number 10. The forward four should have been capable of creating enough chances and winning the game for United but the structure of the team, coupled with the selection issues, left them isolated and ineffectual for most of the game.

The biggest problem with Marouane Fellaini was his designated role within the 4-2-3-1 system. Michael Carrick is a midfielder who wants to build the play from deep areas, pass the ball forward and dictate how and when Manchester United create threatening opportunities in the opponents final third. He doesn’t need Fellaini alongside him to do so, nor could the Belgian adequately contribute to this kind of possession given his skill set.

So you’d hope Carrick could position himself as the midfield pivot and Fellaini would be free to move forward and support Herrera. Receive the ball from Carrick in pockets of space, take a man on, look to find Rashford or Martial in behind West Ham’s back four, maybe even be a goal threat himself if the space developed. I hope you’re reading this and agreeing it sounds nothing like Fellaini because again, it’s not in his skill set.

Instead what he offered was, well, nothing. He abandoned Michael Carrick in a midfield battle against younger, faster, more agile West Ham midfielders (who outnumbered him too, by the way) he slowed down possession when he did get on the ball, taking too many touches and often giving the ball away anyway, and his positioning was that of a player who didn’t really understand the role he was given.

This had a negative impact on everything else Manchester United tried to do, despite the rest of van Gaal’s set-up being pretty much spot on. They had all the tools to absorb the West Ham pressure and break quickly, with three or four players in swift counter-attacking moves. The only problem was the execution. Either Fellaini was involved in passing the ball forward to the counter-attacking players, in which case the supply was either too slow or not accurate enough and the move broke down, or he was part of the supporting cast that was too slow to get forward to help the isolated Rashford, Martial and even Herrera at times, and the lack of support killed the move dead in its tracks.

Which is why the final quarter of an hour, particularly the final 10 minutes, was so absorbing from a United perspective. When Bastian Schweinsteiger replaced Marouane Fellaini balanced was restored to the United midfield. Suddenly there were more options in possession. There was more urgency on the ball. Not only did Schweinsteiger’s quality facilitate this change in emphasis, but his attitude got everyone going too. Carrick was able to remain in a deeper position and affect the play because he had a player alongside him capable of receiving the ball in advanced positions and finding teammates. United kept possession on the edge of the West Ham box and rotated the ball until options became available, rather than losing the ball unnecessarily in neutral midfield areas.

Ultimately, the shape of Manchester United’s midfield changed the game and earned the replay. They had three midfield players in Carrick, Herrera and Schweinsteiger who were all staggered, none of them flat and square on to their teammates and it offered freedom, movement and a greater range and variation of passing in midfield. Something that simply wasn’t possible with Fellaini in the team.

The last word to summarise this particular FA Cup tie is in comparison of the two no.10’s on display in the second half. While Dimitri Payet grew in influence, scored a world class goal and put West Ham on the brink of a trip to Wembley, Louis van Gaal traded Ander Herrera for Marouane Fellaini as United’s chief creative force. If you think all the problems I’ve written about tonight were bad when he was in a deep position, they were ten times worse in the more influential, more advanced position. It merely demonstrated the difference between the two teams and how West Ham appear to be on the ascendency and United have found themselves disappearing into an abyss.

http://mufclatest.com/tactical-analysis-manchester-united-1-1-west-ham-united-emirates-fa-cup-201516/

The usual safe option by LVG in playing 2 DM's who invariably end up in each others way and leave a gaping hole between themselves and the attacking players.If we play this formation on Thursday then Liverpool will once again run all over us.

bangkok

glued wrote: »

The fans that boo Fellaini are a disgrace tbh.

Fans have every right to boo to be honest. They pay their money to go to the game, if there is a player there who is not good enough and has not been good enough for 3 seasons and we are falling further and further behind with that same player playing in the games they are within their rights to boo.

It is also a message to the manager that they don't want him in the starting 11.

Liam O

I seriously don't understand how someone can write that much blaming Fellaini and let Herrera off scot free. Now it's Fellaini abandoning Carrick when before it was he didn't get forward enough and was wasting Herrera's forward balls. They just twist everything to be negative towards him.

Schneiderlin, Herrera, Schweinsteiger and others could have been put into that article for Fellaini at times this season and it wouldn't be wrong but it's Fellaini who gets singled out. It's baffling to me.

StringerBell

zerks wrote: »

http://mufclatest.com/tactical-analysis-manchester-united-1-1-west-ham-united-emirates-fa-cup-201516/

The usual safe option by LVG in playing 2 DM's who invariably end up in each others way and leave a gaping hole between themselves and the attacking players.If we play this formation on Thursday then Liverpool will once again run all over us.

There was too much of a gap between the defence and the attack I thought. When Carrick had the ball Fellaini or Herrera could have taken up positions to receive a ball, to look for a bit of space but both seemed to just push up toward the front line leaving a massive gap in the middle of the field and nobody knitting it together giving Carrick an option to pas through the midfield to.

Basti moved around a lot better, took up good positions and still managed to make runs forward.

From what I saw they were not getting in each others way at all, nor is that what the article says from what I can make out? (I started this reply before finishing it!) They said he abandoned the midfield too often or something leaving Carrick alone. That I would agree with, too eager to get forward.

He and Herrera took up too many of the same positions instead of being staggered through the midfield to give options for balls to be played through.

Not from being too negative and having a big gap between midfield and attack, being too dumb and having too much space between the deepest point of the midfield and the furthest attacking point of it.

Korat

I don't know how or why anyone would try defend Felaini as a Man Utd player, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but for me he is pound for pound the worst signing in the history of the club.

I don't agree with booing our own players but the fans are unstandably angry with what has become of the club. It's not Felaini's fault Utd paid too much for him or that the manager keeps picking him. Ed Woodward is ultimately responsible for the entire mess and he's the one who really deserves the boos but he can hide from the fans the way players and even the manager can't.

Cantona's Collars

Liam O wrote: »

I seriously don't understand how someone can write that much blaming Fellaini and let Herrera off scot free. Now it's Fellaini abandoning Carrick when before it was he didn't get forward enough and was wasting Herrera's forward balls. They just twist everything to be negative towards him.

Schneiderlin, Herrera, Schweinsteiger and others could have been put into that article for Fellaini at times this season and it wouldn't be wrong but it's Fellaini who gets singled out. It's baffling to me.

It's more damning of LVG playing him deep beside Carrick when he clearly cannot function properly there.Its not Fellaini's fault that he just isn't a "United" player.
At times it looked as if we had to separate 5 a side teams,one to defend and one to attack with no link between them.Story of our play for quite a while now,disjointed and every now and then it clicks to give us hope only to revert to the usual dirge we witness all too often.

StringerBell

Korat wrote: »

I don't know how or why anyone would try defend Felaini as a Man Utd player, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but for me he is pound for pound the worst signing in the history of the club.

Bebe was a worse signing if you want to talk pound for pound.

bangkok

Liam O wrote: »

I seriously don't understand how someone can write that much blaming Fellaini and let Herrera off scot free. Now it's Fellaini abandoning Carrick when before it was he didn't get forward enough and was wasting Herrera's forward balls. They just twist everything to be negative towards him.

Schneiderlin, Herrera, Schweinsteiger and others could have been put into that article for Fellaini at times this season and it wouldn't be wrong but it's Fellaini who gets singled out. It's baffling to me.

Maybe because it's his third season at the club and for 3 seasons it's been poor and for 27m is probably up there as one of the worst signings in the clubs history for the money paid

bangkok

StringerBell wrote: »

Bebe was a worse signing if you want to talk pound for pound.

At least we got rid of Bebe quickly...

KH25

Fellaini has just become a massive scapegoat to a lot of fans. He doesn't deserve half the hate he gets.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Think we've just postponed our season end until West Ham knock us out in the replay.

Liverpool will score an early away goal on Thurs and kill the night like some bird you like going off with the biggest tool at a party. (What were you thinking Julie)

The hope has... can't even be bothered anymore

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

At least we got rid of Bebe quickly...

You know what, rather then get in to a tit for tat of shifting goalposts.... that ^ has no relevance to a debate on the pound for pound worst signing in the history of the club.

Cantona's Collars

KH25 wrote: »

Fellaini has just become a massive scapegoat to a lot of fans. He doesn't deserve half the hate he gets.

I think many see him as the onfield embodiment of what has gone wrong at the club.The wrong man in the wrong place.

StringerBell

zerks wrote: »

I think many see him as the onfield embodiment of what has gone wrong at the club.The wrong man in the wrong place.

I would agree with that alright.

bangkok

KH25 wrote: »

Fellaini has just become a massive scapegoat to a lot of fans. He doesn't deserve half the hate he gets.

If he was playing well and scoring/creating goals he would be loved by the fans, but he does neither and is too slow on the ball so is more a negative to the team than a positive.

You know things are bad when Liverpool fans hope he is not banned for the 2nd leg this Thursday!! That's the ultimate insult

bucketybuck

zerks wrote: »

I think many see him as the onfield embodiment of what has gone wrong at the club.The wrong man in the wrong place.

The biggest problem the club has was at the game as well, so I don't understand booing Felliani/Depay/Carrick/nextweeksscapegoat when the real problem is right there on the sideline in the shape of the manager. If they are going to boo anybody it should be him.

sky88

I don't think fellani has ever been good enough for United but he has been treated terrible by some fans who still see him from the moyes disaster.

I still think any fan who boos any player is wrong. It's all good to voice their anger at the team as a whole but no one player should bear the brunt of it.

Liam McPoyle

Korat wrote: »

I don't know how or why anyone would try defend Felaini as a Man Utd player, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but for me he is pound for pound the worst signing in the history of the club.

I don't agree with booing our own players but the fans are unstandably angry with what has become of the club. It's not Felaini's fault Utd paid too much for him or that the manager keeps picking him. Ed Woodward is ultimately responsible for the entire mess and he's the one who really deserves the boos but he can hide from the fans the way players and even the manager can't.

Bebe, Anderson, Taibi, Kleberson, Djemba, all in with a shout for worst signing.

Fellaini is just an easy target for people at this stage.

He isnt a world beater.

He isnt good enough to be a starter for a serious title contending team.

We all know that.

But the level of bile directed at him by the likes of bangkok is just laughable.

Fellaini is attached to the moyes disaster, Fellaini is attached to the hoofball plan B we had last year(?) no of which are his fault but is made out the scapegoat. As has already been said its not like he isn't trying. I'd love him to score a hatrick thursday in an epic win. Although I do hope Bastian is fit enough to start.

Depays decision makinf was poor again today but thought he got into some good positions how I'd love to have Shaw back but I think I'd take CBJ over Rojo atm.

Veron is up there in signing that didnt work out pound for pound

StringerBell

Jaysus yeah forgot Anderson, he would certainly have a big shout at pound for pound worst too all things considered.

I wonder what our conceeding from set play crosses is like when Fellaini is on the pitch he does a lot of good work in our own box

Flint Fredstone

Should never have sold Büttner, club has fallen apart since he left.

Cantona's Collars

bucketybuck wrote: »

The biggest problem the club has was at the game as well, so I don't understand booing Felliani/Depay/Carrick/nextweeksscapegoat when the real problem is right there on the sideline in the shape of the manager. If they are going to boo anybody it should be him.

What I don't get is the booing of a player yet applauding the manager when he walks along the touchline.I honestly believe these aren't season ticket holders and are tourists who only get to a game once a decade or it is their first time at OT.

bangkok

Anderson was far from our worst signing. Started his career great with us, injuries and weight issues towards the end over shadowed the good player he was with us at the start. Never gave Gerrard or fabregas a kick when he played against them

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

Anderson was far from our worst signing. Started his career great with us, injuries and weight issues towards the end over shadowed the good player he was with us at the start. Never gave Gerrard or fabregas a kick when he played against them

I didn't say he was our worst signing (which is different to worst pound for pound of course) nor our worst pound for pound, but given all the details he does deserve to be in the discussion I think, his transfer fee coupled with his overall contribution demands it surely.

Hococop

StringerBell wrote: »

I didn't say he was our worst signing (which is different to worst pound for pound of course) nor our worst pound for pound, but given all the details he does deserve to be in the discussion I think, his transfer fee coupled with his overall contribution demands it surely.

Interesting stat

Anderson: 181 appearances, 9 goals
Fellaini : 77 appearances 9 goals

DrPhilG

In before somebody calls Anderson the worst pound for lb signing...

I could be wrong but we have played a long cross field ball to Fellaini maybe 3 times in the last 2 games 2 of which created good chances, the Rashford one Via Liverpool and one today I think but cant remember(could be wrong on it being a good chance)

I just remember this tactic created a lot of space and ball for Young last year Imagine what Martial could do with that space if we could get this working well again.

bangkok

Hococop wrote: »

Interesting stat

Anderson: 181 appearances, 9 goals
Fellaini : 77 appearances 9 goals

Interesting stat...

Anderson......

Premier League (4):[69] 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11, 2012–13
Football League Cup (2):[69] 2008–09, 2009–10
FA Community Shield (2):[69] 2011, 2013
UEFA Champions League (1): 2007–08[69]
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008[69]

Fellaini.....







Mmmmmmm

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

Interesting stat...

Anderson......

Premier League (4):[69] 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11, 2012–13
Football League Cup (2):[69] 2008–09, 2009–10
FA Community Shield (2):[69] 2011, 2013
UEFA Champions League (1): 2007–08[69]
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008[69]

Fellaini.....







Mmmmmmm

Wow thats pretty damming on Anderson to only contribute that many goals in such succesful sides. Good point Anderson definetly worse than Fellaini pound for pound for me now.

Another thing it wasn't when Bastian came on we started playing better it was when we went a goal down there was more urgency in the players and more attacking intent. Bastian did improve things mind but again it seemed goal down shackless off players driving forward

Robson99

Business Cat wrote: »

Bebe, Anderson, Taibi, Kleberson, Djemba, all in with a shout for worst signing.

Gary Birtles says hello also

The_Kew_Tour

Liam Miller.

StringerBell

Deleted User wrote: »

Another thing it wasn't when Bastian came on we started playing better it was when we went a goal down there was more urgency in the players and more attacking intent. Bastian did improve things mind but again it seemed goal down shackless off players driving forward

Yes and when we got the equaliser you see the fire start to go out of the players again, it is infuriating to watch!

Robson99

And the tag was attached to Ralph Milne [ RIP ] for years also

StringerBell

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Liam Miller.

He was free!

The_Kew_Tour

StringerBell wrote: »

He was free!

Does not matter he was ****