Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

BMMachine

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

What's entirely accurate? Do you know all the posters here personally?
You are tarring everyone with the "support United because of success" brush without even knowing their age or when they started supporting the club.
Anyone that answers back to you gets the "little victories" retort. The irony...

nope. not everyone, as I said in the post you quoted the key word is individuals. the fact that you have ignored such a clear point proves what we both know, doesnt it

Flint Fredstone

BMMachine wrote: »

nope. not everyone, as I said in the post you quoted the key word is individuals. the fact that you have ignored such a clear point proves what we both know, doesnt it

Well no, I'm not basing this on one post.

Every little victory. The Irish Manchester United supporting motto.
that and "I support United cos of my dad". Nope, you just like someone else winning for you and went for the easy choice

Your words.

You don't have an argument for anything, just roll out the same tedious line. So I'll just leave it there, I've no interest in going over it again.

BMMachine

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Well no, I'm not basing this on one post.



Your words.

You don't have an argument for anything, just roll out the same tedious line. So I'll just leave it there, I've no interest in going over it again.

bit of a generalisation on my part, but I have been far clearer in other posts if you want to go back over my posting history. and well, the post I had quoted in that one you found was: "I'm off,but just wanted too say a big thank you again too the Pool for getting the results we where hoping they'd achieve this week.

Night Kopties"

so I suppose I was a bit reactionary and stupid. but hey, isn't that post I quoted proving me right again?

oh but I suppose you are going to "leave it there" so you can walk away with an illusion of "victory". The more you try to prove me wrong the more my opinion is validated. and you have no interest well, we both know why you have suddenly lost interest dont we

RobertKK

We have LVG until season end, or until 4th is impossible/along with being out of FA cup.

We need to beat City at the weekend, and West Ham please win too :pac:

Jayop

Does that make sense to anyone?

Flint Fredstone

BMMachine wrote: »

bit of a generalisation on my part, but I have been far clearer in other posts if you want to go back over my posting history. and well, the post I had quoted in that one you found was: "I'm off,but just wanted too say a big thank you again too the Pool for getting the results we where hoping they'd achieve this week.

Night Kopties"

so I suppose I was a bit reactionary and stupid. but hey, isn't that post I quoted proving me right again?

oh but I suppose you are going to "leave it there" so you can walk away with an illusion of "victory". The more you try to prove me wrong the more my opinion is validated. and you have no interest well, we both know why you have suddenly lost interest dont we

And there we have it, the get out of jail free card. I was waiting on it but thought you would have the self awareness not to use it in this particular exchange. The irony is staggering. It's you that's going for these "little victories" and you can't even see it. Brilliant :pac:

Liam McPoyle

RobertKK wrote: »

We have LVG until season end, or until 4th is impossible/along with being out of FA cup.

We need to beat City at the weekend, and West Ham please win too :pac:

The fear I would have is that we will somehow manage to sneak 4th and we will end up stuck with him til the end of next season.

I just want him gone and if it means losing on Sunday the so be it.

It would be nice to win the FA cup but if it means LVG getting a reprieve then I hope West Ham tonk us.

BMMachine

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

And there we have it, the get out of jail free card. I was waiting on it but thought you would have the self awareness not to use it in this particular exchange. The irony is staggering.

you got me. you secretly win. well done.
just ignore everything else, not like its relevant.
"get out of jail free card" - that line going to be yours too yeah? The idea of a glory hunting irish man utd fan is ridiculous and theres no way any of them (if they do indeed exist) could end up on the most popular forum in Ireland, is there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW4tY8mQ_1o

Jayop

BMMachine wrote: »

you got me. you secretly win. well done.
just ignore everything else, not like its relevant.
"get out of jail free card" - that line going to be yours too yeah? The idea of a glory hunting irish man utd fan is ridiculous and theres no way any of them (if they do indeed exist) could end up on the most popular forum in Ireland, is there?

What are you talking about?

The vast vast majority of fans in Ireland support either United or Liverpool. They do so because they're either

-Teams that we're doing well when they're kids.
-Teams that a family member supported and thus you support
-Teams that had a large amount of Irish players back when they started to follow football

Very few of those are glory hunters and the term is only thrown at United fans from Liverpool fans now as an act of bitterness because we all by and large picked a team 30 odd years ago, you guys picked the team that was on top at the time, we've picked the team that's been on top ever since and you're more than a little bitter about it.

The only true glory hunter fan is one who will support United when they win, then switch to City when they win then on to Chelsea when they win.

In fairness I don't know a single person like that in Ireland over the age of about 8.



Edit: In fact we had a discussion in this thread a few days or weeks back about how we all started supporting United. Maybe you could educate yourself and read it.

Flint Fredstone

BMMachine wrote: »

you got me. you secretly win. well done.
just ignore everything else, not like its relevant.

Actually, just appease my curious side. Why is it that you support Liverpool?

Jayop

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Actually, just appease my curious side. Why is it that you support Liverpool?

And a better question is when did he start to support Liverpool. If it's at any date prior to 1992 then he's a bigger glory hunter than any 30+ year old United fan.

BMMachine

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Actually, just appease my curious side. Why is it that you support Liverpool?

family down the road supported them, the Dad used to work for them in the 80s organising hotels and stuff for the away games. They were a really nice family, brady bunch-esque and he was the only kid on the road my age as the rest were older so I was down in his house a lot watching old tapes etc and thats pretty much how it happened. It was also as my family had just moved to this country when I was about 5 so you are kinda looking for ways to identify yourself and fit in and supporting Liverpool helped in this regard, as did being the only kid on the road with a super nes and mario kart this would have been 93/94ish I think.

Korat

Jayop wrote: »

The only true glory hunter fan is one who will support United when they win, then switch to City when they win then on to Chelsea when they win.

I knew a guy who was a Liverpool supporter, then Blackburn, then Newcastle. I think he was a glory hunter but knew he'd never get away with switching from Liverpool to Utd. He's probably a Chelsea or City fan now.

There'll always be a few knobs like that. I'm sure there's a few former Utd supporters who are all about Leicester City now. Good riddance.

BMMachine

Jayop wrote: »

Edit: In fact we had a discussion in this thread a few days or weeks back about how we all started supporting United. Maybe you could educate yourself and read it.

and Im sure it was really conclusive that no one was a glory hunter and there was a lot of Dads and they just liked the way the team played and they just loved Cantona and winning loads of cups was just kind of a thing that happened and their near constant exposure and frankly amazing marketing had no bearing on it and everyone was just super

Flint Fredstone

BMMachine wrote: »

family down the road supported them, the Dad used to work for them in the 80s organising hotels and stuff for the away games. They were a really nice family, brady bunch-esque and he was the only kid on the road my age as the rest were older so I was down in his house a lot watching old tapes etc and thats pretty much how it happened. It was also as my family had just moved to this country when I was about 5 so you are kinda looking for ways to identify yourself and fit in and supporting Liverpool helped in this regard, as did being the only kid on the road with a super nes and mario kart this would have been 93/94ish I think.

Fairly similar to myself to be honest, the fitting in part anyway. It's all circumstantial.
It doesn't make you in any way a superior fan to somebody that started supporting the team that were playing the nice football and winning a lot.

jayo26

BMMachine wrote: »

family down the road supported them, the Dad used to work for them in the 80s organising hotels and stuff for the away games. They were a really nice family, brady bunch-esque and he was the only kid on the road my age as the rest were older so I was down in his house a lot watching old tapes etc and thats pretty much how it happened. It was also as my family had just moved to this country when I was about 5 so you are kinda looking for ways to identify yourself and fit in and supporting Liverpool helped in this regard, as did being the only kid on the road with a super nes and mario kart this would have been 93/94ish I think.

In fairness I can believe this story.. I can see you needing a bit of help fitting in.

BMMachine

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Fairly similar to myself to be honest, the fitting in part anyway. It's all circumstantial.
It doesn't make you in any way a superior fan to somebody that started supporting the team that were playing the nice football and winning a lot.

correct.
but the attitude remains of these fans and its ever present on this forum. little victories and someone else winning for them. again, not everyone, but its very easy to spot them. and of course the best thing to do is make them aware of this fact as they mostly dont know how to handle it.

personally I find the reasons people support different teams and that kind of thing fascinating and in that regard Ireland is unique as the LoI gets bugger all support so we often arbitrarily pick a team from the Premier League for whichever reason. Theres a ton of sociological and psychological reasons for it too

BMMachine

jayo26 wrote: »

In fairness I can believe this story.. I can see you needing a bit of help fitting in.

see

astonaidan

Korat wrote: »

I knew a guy who was a Liverpool supporter, then Blackburn, then Newcastle. I think he was a glory hunter but knew he'd never get away with switching from Liverpool to Utd. He's probably a Chelsea or City fan now.

There'll always be a few knobs like that. I'm sure there's a few former Utd supporters who are all about Leicester City now. Good riddance.

If you want to see glory hunting fans just go to La Liga and Bundesliga threads they arent hard to spot.
I dont know if supporting Leicester is glory hunting, Like I hope they win it and cheer them in their games, Id never recognize myself as a supporter more a fan, but I know what you mean, one of my friends at different times supported Celtic, Real Madrid, Juventus, Liverpool, he now follows Barca and Bayern :pac:
and yes his nickname is Robbie :pac::pac:

Cantona's Collars

Its Mitten but he speaks a lot of truth here:

http://www.espnfc.com/club/manchester-united/360/blog/post/2832251/manchester-united-fans-have-had-enough-of-louis-van-gaal

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/RedIssue/status/710879805361623040

Rayne Wooney

I hope the rumours of a director of football are true, Woodward has been captain of this ship, how do you manage to fcuk up Manchester United? We are in the top 4 in revenue, we pay the most wages. Appointing píss poor managers and sticking with them far beyond their clear and apparent expiry date along with signing mediocre players for big money is how you do it, and Woodward has excelled on both counts. We aren't a sacking club yet in a few months we'll have sacked two managers in just a little over two years, why didn't this happen in December? Just like the players he's signed and the managers he's appointed Woodward hasn't got the Manchester United essence, he isn't a ruthless winner, sure he can sign up sponsorship deals, is that a hard sell for a club that has won trophies for fun for 20 years? Whether we like it or not the majority of fans are glory hunters, United have hundreds of millions of fans because of winning trophies. We haven't won a trophy in 3 years and sponsors are starting to raise eyebrows.

Whether we're done and United being associated with the best is a thing of the past remains to be seen, the last 3 years has done damage I've no doubt. I don't know how Arsenal fans have stayed quiet for so long, they are a mediocre club, despite having potential to push on. 5 years ago ask any player in the world who they would love to play for and I guarantee United are in there, when have you ever heard a player say the same about Arsenal? If we've lost that prestige it's our own doing, these days the players seem to be shocked United are signing them. Arsenal won't win one trophy this season, and they'll get knocked out of the CL in the early knockout stages next season, they really are no better than us in reality, just existing as a football club isn't good enough.

That's why I want Mourinho, the man is the best and he knows it. Like Fergie I'm sure he can spot a player with no bottle from a mile away. I'm sure he will do whatever it takes to get United back up on that perch, sure it may be too late. Winning every other league title like Fergie did may not be possible, but a trophy a season needs to be the benchmark, with at least a league challenge and latter stages of the CL in there. Remember when going out of Europe to Bayern in the quarter finals was considered bad? But now we're being knocked out of the Europa by midtable PL teams and nobody is surprised. Bring on Mourinho I say.

bucketybuck

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Appointing píss poor managers and sticking with them far beyond their clear and apparent expiry date

Personally I don't have a problem with the actual appointments, they were both justifiable choices in many ways and in different circumstances could perhaps have worked out better.

The big problem is not recognising and accepting when the manager has failed, not acting when it is clear to the dogs on the street that changes are needed. Its a sign of a weak CEO in my opinion, at the top level you need to be decisive and Woodward has been a failure himself in that regard.

Even the probably baseless rumors about Mourinho being told he had the job after the Anfield defeat don't speak well to this. Did anybody really need that defeat to finally convince them that changes were needed? Does the board really need 3/4 months to decide if they want Mourinho or not? If the answer to either question is "yes" then we have a serious problem at board level.

Cantona's Collars

Former Barcelona striker Patrick Kluivert says Manchester United boss Louis van Gaal struggles at times to manage more experienced members of his teams, but hailed the Dutchman's work with young players as "amazing."

Van Gaal has earned plaudits for his eagerness to give youngsters a chance in the United first team this season, highlighted by 18-year-old Marcus Rashford who scored a brace in each of his first two United starts.

Kluivert, who played for Van Gaal at Ajax and Barcelona, praised his former coach's ability with forming stars, while allowing that he may not always see eye-to-eye with his veterans.

"He's a trainer and a man who really wants to do well and sometimes, with experienced players who have already achieved something, he has some struggles," Kluivert, who worked as an assistant under Van Gaal with the Dutch national team, told Omnisport on Friday.

"With young players he is amazing, he's fantastic. Sure, also with experienced players but some players who are experienced have their own vision of playing in the game. That does not always go well.

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/manchester-united/story/2832503/louis-van-gaal-struggles-with-experienced-pros-kluivert


So just like Moyes,LVG can't handle the senior players.

StringerBell

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RedIssue/status/710879805361623040

Some load of ****.

(Not him becoming manager, that may very well happen)

Korat

If the young players who Van Gaal has given debuts to this season go on to have great careers will LVG deserve to be credited for it?

Cantona's Collars

StringerBell wrote: »

Some load of ****.

(Not him becoming manager, that may very well happen)

It's red issue,they claim to be ITK.As was said before about them,throw enough sh1t and something eventually sticks.

I posted it cos all I want is some kind of positivity these days.

fuzzydunlop85

When is the west ham game? Hoping he will be gone after that.

Rayne Wooney

12 goals 7 assists in 38 games from Martial in his first season for a 20 year old. Playing mainly from a wide position

Sanchez got 11 goals 9 assists in 32 games. Firmino who has become flavour of the month, 9 goals 9 assists in 38 games.

Encouraging numbers I think we'll see him hitting 20 goals next season

Cantona's Collars

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

When is the west ham game? Hoping he will be gone after that.

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/710956539159269376

Lord TSC

West HAM GAME ON THE 6th April, between the Spurs and Everton game. 7PM kickoff.

StringerBell

zerks wrote: »

It's red issue,they claim to be ITK.As was said before about them,throw enough sh1t and something eventually sticks.

I posted it cos all I want is some kind of positivity these days.

Wasn't having a pop at you at all, just commenting on the content.

Smegball

The main positive from appointing Mourinho in the summer is the chance we finally land Wesley Sneijder.

astonaidan

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

12 goals 7 assists in 38 games from Martial in his first season for a 20 year old. Playing mainly from a wide position

Sanchez got 11 goals 9 assists in 32 games. Firmino who has become flavour of the month, 9 goals 9 assists in 38 games.

Encouraging numbers I think we'll see him hitting 20 goals next season

As a impartial viewer, i think hes the most exciting player in football, the ability and confidence he has Henry didnt have till he was a few years older.

TitianGerm

astonaidan wrote: »

i think hes the most exciting player in football

He's not even close to the most exciting player in football.

Great prospect and a very very good first season in a new team and new league. I'd say in two years he'll be fighting for top scorer in the league year on year.

astonaidan

emmetkenny wrote: »

He's not even close to the most exciting player in football.

Great prospect and a very very good first season in a new team and new league. I'd say in two years he'll be fighting for top scorer in the league year on year.

Oops, I meant to write prospect :o

IamtheWalrus

Smegball wrote: »

The main positive from appointing Mourinho in the summer is the chance we finally land Wesley Sneijder.

Isn't he cup-tied?

fatherted1969

Business Cat wrote: »

So the inevitable happened last night anyway lads and lassies, the damage was done in the first leg and once they got the away goal the faint chance we had was completely diminished.

While its always disappointing to lose to LFC things aren't as bad as some think IMO.

We are currently in the place LFC were a few months ago, a decent squad but they are rudderless at the moment, under a manager that is completely devoid of ideas.

Looking at our squad from the top down

DDG : in the top two keepers in the world, whomever we get in charge in the summer has the unenviable task of trying to persuade him to stay, I fear it's too late though and he will be Madrid bound.

Defense

Shaw showed why we paid the fee we paid for him in the early part of the season until a horrible injury banjaxed him. He is still only a kid and I think he will be an integral part of our squad for years to come when he comes back.

Darmian is a fine full back and has the makings of an Evra type figure for us. Thrown under a bus somewhat by LVG who dropped him for a couple of errors after a bright start. Definite future with the club.

Mike : Started the season brilliantly but lacking a reliable and settled partner has impacted his game. Definite future in the club.

CBJ : Has played well when given the chance, skillful, very pacey and a swashbuckling left sided winger in the making. Definite future in the club.

Jones : injuries have blighted him, extremely brave player but too inconsistent. Ship him out.

Blind & Rojo : Handy utility players to have but not good enough to start. Keep them for rotation purposes.

Fosu Mensah : one for the future, back up / squad player for the next couple of seasons.

Midfield

Mata : lovely footballer by times but too inconsistent, asked to play in a number of positions so managerial issues can be partly held accountable but he shouldn't be starting. Ship him out.

Lingard : A Naniesque player, occasionally brilliant but massively frustrating, at 23 his decision making should be better. Ship him out.

Basti : a legend in world football but past his prime. Good player to have as back up / rotation and I believe a good influence to have for younger players. Keep for rotation.

Carrick : well past his best, legs are gone. Good servant but no time for sentiment. Ship him out.

Herrara : there is a brilliant player in there waiting to be unlocked, just needs a manager to do it. Definite future with the club.

Big Fel : one of the few players to consistently try for us (IMO) but he isn't good enough and I don't think he would be happy as a back up player. Ship him out.

Schneiderlin : much was made of his signing but he hasn't shown the promise he did at Southampton. Much like Lallana at LFC I think the right manager can turn him into a first team player for us. Definite future at the club.

Memphis : arrived with a big reputation but has simply not being good enough. Flashes of brilliance over shadowed by long spells of lethargic play. He needs a massive toe in the hole but a good manager will get the best out of him. I'd certainly give him another season before passing final judgement.

Young : good squad player to have, can be very frustrating but can also provide killer balls into the box. Keep for rotation purposes.

Valencia : not good enough, the place of utility winger is taken by Young. Ship him out.

Adnan : seems to have a attitude problem and a bigger opinion of himself than he deserves. I'd give him one more season but after that it may be time to let him go. Keep for a year to review.

Forwards.

Martial : along with DDG our best player all season and a potentially world class player. The right partner beside him in the right system and he will score goals, lots of goals. Definite future with the club.

Rashford : started well but has been massively exposed (through no fault of his own) by LVG. Still only a kid but has the makings of a lovely player. Definite future with the club.

Rooney : a Jekyll & Hyde season for our captain. There is no doubting he has the ability but he was septic for large tranches of the season and seems to be going through the motions. A manager like Jose could help him get the passion back. I'd keep him unless a stupid offer was to come in from China or the likes of PSG, certainly wouldn't sell him to a PL rival.

Wilson and Powell I've not seen enough of to form an opinion on.

So of the above, there are 6 or 7 players I'd consider good enough to start and some decent back up options.

We need, assuming DDG leaves.

Keeper

Centre half.

Central midfielder.

Right sided winger.

Striker.

Getting rid of Valencia, Jones, Mata and Fellaini would raise at least £50 to £60 million as well as freeing up half a million a week in wages. That coupled with a transfer budget of £100 million could completely overhaul the team.

Jose has proven a knack of buying relatively unknown players and moulding them into superstars - Cech, Drogba and Carvalho for example and he has proven that he isn't afraid to wield the axe when needed.

If we appoint him in the summer I believe this day two years we will be challenging for the title. If we don't then we are going to be much worse off than we are now.

We are a wounded animal at the moment and reading some of the ridiculous comments such as we are now apparently knocked off our perch (have you ever heard such short sighted nonsense like!) should be reason enough for everyone associated with the club to do what's best for the club.

And that boys and girls is appointing Jose Mourinho as our next manager.

Pretty much agree with all of this, things are nowhere near as bad as it seems. I would think our squad are vastly superior to the likes of liverpool. Only difference is they now have a great manager. I've no doubt we'd be in a better position now had LVG been sacked when he should have been back at the end of Nov even with Giggs as interim manager

I'd still be pretty much ok with probably 8 of the current squad starting hut the managerial appointment is the most important of all. It's an absolute disgrace to be still looking at LVG in the dugout and shows lack of real leadership at the top level. Hopefully the next appointment will be the right one. Not a fan of Mourinho I don't like his theatrics but if it's him then so be it. Would love someone like Pochitinni though

Lucas Hood

Lord TSC wrote: »

West HAM GAME ON THE 6th April, between the Spurs and Everton game. 7PM kickoff.

If you were replying to the guy above. I'm sure they meant the fa cup replay which is on Tuesday.

jayo26

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Isn't he cup-tied?

No but he is going to celtic.

DARK-KNIGHT

Aswell as having lvg sacked I wanna see giggs removed from the club. He is like that older brother that never moves out from homeplace waiting on a death to inherit all of the money. Honestly he can't be involved in Jose setup twice now he has been involved with failing management full changes needed at management level in our club and Jose needs full reign

Korat

BBC Sport wrote:

The Sun, which says Louis van Gaal believes he won't be sacked even if Manchester United fail to finish in the top four.

Asked if he fears for his job, the paper quotes the Dutchman as saying: “Every day when we are losing you ask that. But why?

"I have a three-year contract and the process is three years."

:eek:

I know quotes can be taken out of context and LVG has his own style of speaking to the press but it's not cute anymore. That's borderline taunting the fans after the crap we've had to watch.

hufpc8w3adnk65

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Aswell as having lvg sacked I wanna see giggs removed from the club. He is like that older brother that never moves out from homeplace waiting on a death to inherit all of the money. Honestly he can't be involved in Jose setup twice now he has been involved with failing management full changes needed at management level in our club and Jose needs full reign

That's a bit harsh... Give him the 17s job or something like that just keep him away from the first team

Quandary

MrMac84 wrote: »

That's a bit harsh... Give him the 17s job or something like that just keep him away from the first team

After being assistant manager for the last couple of years I can't see Giggs taking such a big step down. He will either be our next manager(perish the thought) or he will be out the door IMO.

Lord TSC

Korat wrote: »

:eek:

I know quotes can be taken out of context and LVG has his own style of speaking to the press but it's not cute anymore. That's borderline taunting the fans after the crap we've had to watch.

The issue, I guess, is that he believes he fans are on his side. After all, there hasn't been much of a revolution from the fans at games. Even when the team gave up against Pool. The fans were all singing their adoration for the club, and when 90 minutes came, it's all handshakes and empty seats....

Korat

It's been a poisonous couple of years since Gill and Fergie left and everyone at the club has been tainted by it. For someone like Giggs he'd be better off building a reputation for himself as a manager elsewhere before trying to take on the Utd job full time.

Quandary

Korat wrote: »

It's been a poisonous couple of years since Gill and Fergie left and everyone at the club has been tainted by it. For someone like Giggs he'd be better off building a reputation for himself as a manager elsewhere before trying to take on the Utd job full time.

Giggs has watched Hughes,Bruce, Keane, Robson etc all go into management and have varying levels of success but none of them have been able to establish themselves as top tier managers.

Right now he knows his only real chance at ever landing the Utd Job is to inherit it via nepotism because he certainly can't get the job on managerial merit.

DARK-KNIGHT

MrMac84 wrote: »

That's a bit harsh... Give him the 17s job or something like that just keep him away from the first team

It's not harsh it's tough love. He needs to have those apron strings cut

QikBax

beno619

Quandary wrote: »

Giggs has watched Hughes,Bruce, Keane, Robson etc all go into management and have varying levels of success but none of them have been able to establish themselves as top tier managers.

Right now he knows his only real chance at ever landing the Utd Job is to inherit it via nepotism because he certainly can't get the job on managerial merit.

When did Giggs give you an exclusive interview ?