Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

TheTownie

Lord TSC wrote: »

Agree or disagree, I can see why he went.

We had RVP, Rooney and Falcao who, at that time, no one would have put Welbeck past. He was at least 4th choice. IIRC, we offered him the loan to Spurs and he refused, insisting on being sold. Had he taken the loan, he'd probably have been playing consistently this season, but his own impatience played its part.

It's impossible to know how the situation unfolded because I think theres a lot of PR spinning thats done when a player is sold but imo LVG's approach to Welbeck played a key role in him leaving. If he valued his contribution like Fergie did he would most likely still be at the club.

NoviGlitzko

bangkok wrote: »

how is it hindsight?

van persie 32, career dogged with injury and falcao 30, was a total gamble, just back from a career threatening injury with no guarantee he would ever get back to the level he was at.
rooney 30 and as you know what a lot of posters here think about him.

so there was 3 players that were past their peak already and were never going to do what they did years previous. thats before we even add in selling hernandez along with welbeck, loaning out wilson and keane, it was crazy squad management

Falcao was 28 when he joined us and was well known as a top class striker when we got him on loan, so I can understand what the manager was thinking selling Welbeck.

Saying that, I remember I didn't want him sold at all at the time.

TheTownie

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

Falcao was 28 when he joined us and was well known as a top class striker when we got him on loan, so I can understand what the manager was thinking selling Welbeck.

Saying that, I remember I didn't want him sold at all at the time.

If Utd had signed Falcao in his prime, I don't see that as a green light to sell Welbeck. They bring different skill sets to the pitch. Welbeck is a valuable squad option to have which is why Wenger bought him.

Flint Fredstone

Maybe Welbeck would have stayed if he was happy to be a bit part player?
The fact is, there were 3 options considered to be better at the time.
So yeah, there is an element of hindsight.

IamtheWalrus

It shows how bad things have gotten when we're lamenting the loss of Danny Welbeck.

beno619

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

So yeah, there is an element of hindsight.

Nope, it's just another poor decision to add to a burgeoning list of LVG's.

bucketybuck

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Maybe Welbeck would have stayed if he was happy to be a bit part player?
The fact is, there were 3 options considered to be better at the time.
So yeah, there is an element of hindsight.

The problem with all these "hindsight" claims is that there were people saying these things at the time.

Manutd_4life

West Ham leading vs Chelsea

Hopefully chelsea can pull one back.

Martypants1

It was a brainless decision to sell Welbeck and keep Wilson.

Wilson ended up playing 5 mins here and there when he should have been shipped out on loan to the championship. Waste of a year for Wilson.

Rayne Wooney

It was brainless not adequately replacing Welbeck after we sold him, I'm happy we sold him. He isn't good enough and Arsenal buying players like him for their team only helps us

It's not tough to replace Danny Welbeck but like everything else Van Gaal and Woodward have made a balls of it

Flint Fredstone

bucketybuck wrote: »

The problem with all these "hindsight" claims is that there were people saying these things at the time.

Good for them, they turned out to be right in the end. There will always be people with different opinions to the majority, they will end up being right if the worst happens in a case like this. That's just life.

Manutd_4life

Manutd_4life wrote: »

West Ham leading vs Chelsea

Hopefully chelsea can pull one back.

Korat

Welbeck is 25 years old and has never scored 10 league goals in a season. Even a slow winger/midfielder like Mata managed better than that by the same age.

beno619

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Good for them, they turned out to be right in the end. There will always be people with different opinions to the majority, they will end up being right if the worst happens in a case like this. That's just life.

Then stop claiming hindsight, it's the only reason were having this conversation.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by a "top player"?

Not a player and not a top top player just a top player come on Pro.F you are around long enough to know the Redknapp rating system

bangkok

Korat wrote: »

Welbeck is 25 years old and has never scored 10 league goals in a season. Even a slow winger/midfielder like Mata managed better than that by the same age.

its not all about goals.

going by that logic Andres Iniesta has never scored 10 league goals in a season playing in a far easier league with a much better team

J. Marston

What's happening in here? Oh, Welbeck talk...

Also LOL Danny Welbeck, no thanks..

bucketybuck

Thats a very ugly baby.

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

Also LOL Danny Welbeck, no thanks..

lol januzaj

lol memphis depay

lol fellaini

lol lingard

lol nick powell v wolfsburg

lol no strikers on the bench for the entire season

lol at getting knocked out of europe

lol at not getting top 4 this season

Korat

bangkok wrote: »

its not all about goals.

going by that logic Andres Iniesta has never scored 10 league goals in a season playing in a far easier league with a much better team

I think you'll find that football is all about goals. :rolleyes:

If Danny Welbeck could play like Iniesta we'd have put him in midfield surely?

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Right so the match tomorrow, is welbeck playing or can we now talk about our team again...

bangkok

Korat wrote: »

I think you'll find that football is all about goals. :rolleyes:

If Danny Welbeck could play like Iniesta we'd have put him in midfield surely?

so we sell Hernandez, van persie, falcao, welbeck, wilson loan, keane loan, nani and dont replace all of the above goals?? great management

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

lol januzaj

lol memphis depay

lol fellaini

lol lingard

lol nick powell v wolfsburg

lol no strikers on the bench for the entire season

lol at getting knocked out of europe

lol at not getting top 4 this season

LOL (at whatever point you think your making???)

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

LOL (at whatever point you think your making???)

selling welbeck to a top 4 rival while we struggle and are left with a lot of crap players

Korat

Korat wrote: »

I think you'll find that football is all about goals. :rolleyes:

If Danny Welbeck could play like Iniesta we'd have put him in midfield surely?

Bangkok is always using goals and assists to judge players (in all positions) when it suits him and when it comes to a striker who is known for bottling very good chances then talking about welbecks goals is very valid point.
He doesnt play midfield he is not Iniesta this place is very tilting today

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

selling welbeck to a top 4 rival while we struggle and are left with a lot of crap players

So you thought we had a crap squad the year we sold welbeck I'd love to see them posts, you also waxed lyrical when we signed Depay its all hindsight from you at least.

Cantona's Collars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mjgE1qDgOc

Mars Bar

Have ye seen Martial's interview with Shreeves? It's hard to believe the lad is only 20. That look in around 7 minutes is the one we all love!

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10208756/anthony-martial-exclusive-i-do-get-angry-and-im-a-striker-first-and-foremost

Flint Fredstone

beno619 wrote: »

Then stop claiming hindsight, it's the only reason were having this conversation.

Were you one of those people?
If you were then fair enough.
Anyone that predicted Falcao would be a total flop and RvP disintegrate in one season should go into the fortune telling business.

Your Airbag

bangkok wrote: »

selling welbeck to a top 4 rival while we struggle and are left with a lot of crap players

We sold Welbeck, who had never been amazing for us, and replaced him with Falcao. Without the gift of hindsight 99.9% of managers in the world would have done that.

The revisionisim because Welback got "a goal" today is laughable. Welbeck has about 5 goals in 10 apps for Arsenal this season. He got a staggering 8 goals in 34 apps for Asenal last season. Welbeck is a bang average player.

Headshot

Mars Bar wrote: »

Have ye seen Martial's interview with Shreeves? It's hard to believe the lad is only 20. That look in around 7 minutes is the one we all love!

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10208756/anthony-martial-exclusive-i-do-get-angry-and-im-a-striker-first-and-foremost

The only shining light for me this season. What serious talent he has

Mitch Connor

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Were you one of those people?
If you were then fair enough.
Anyone that predicted Falcao would be a total flop and RvP disintegrate in one season should go into the fortune telling business.

my problem with the group of strikers we assembled last season was they were all so similar. All lacked pace and skill to run at defenses and get past them, or beyond them. It was a poorly balanced front line with little ability to change the approach.

Have always been surprised that welbeck wasn't considered a key squad member by LVG. An identikit LVG player I thought.

Korat

The only players I was really disappointed to lose under LVG were Kagawa and Hernandez. I was fine with a clear out of the rest but It's been shocking how we've replaced players like Evans, Welbeck and Nani, who weren't good enough for Utd, with players who seem actually worse than them.

I'm hoping it's the LVG effect that's making the entire squad look worse than they really are because otherwise we're in real trouble when De Gea goes to Madrid regardless of who the coach is next season.

Martypants1

What's with certain posters coming in and complaining about things being discussed?

No Fellaini, No Welbeck.

Lord TSC

Well, this one will be fun...

The Star reports that Don Balon, a Spanish sports site, are saying Jose will target

Diego Costa

to add steel to our front line.

Kerrydude1981

Mars Bar wrote: »

Have ye seen Martial's interview with Shreeves? It's hard to believe the lad is only 20. That look in around 7 minutes is the one we all love!

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10208756/anthony-martial-exclusive-i-do-get-angry-and-im-a-striker-first-and-foremost

I was laughing at that this morning

He likes to go to the cinema to watch movies but he doesn't understand them

Cantona's Collars

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Were you one of those people?
If you were then fair enough.
Anyone that predicted Falcao would be a total flop and RvP disintegrate in one season should go into the fortune telling business.

RVP has 15 goals for Fenerbache this season,not bad considering he didn't play a whole lot earlier.
I felt sorry for Falcao,watching him make runs into space only to see the ball stop 20 yards from goal then go wide or backwards.As brittle as his confidence was,LVG totally crushed it.
Chicharito has banged in goals in Germany,LVG wrote him off.
It is a testament to the talent of Martial that hes done so well at United,so many of his goals are down to his own work rather than decent build up play,imagine him in a functioning team.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Martypants1 wrote: »

What's with certain posters coming in and complaining about things being discussed?

No Fellaini, No Welbeck.

Because it's balls and been talked to death already.

Mr.Crinklewood

Post your earliest utd memory. ..


Mine. ....cup semi v Liverpool in 85.

Utd won because I changed to the white jersey at half time
.

Edit. .first memory might be getting beat by Everton 5-0 or 5-1 in the league. ...off to ask Google.

Cantona's Collars

Lord TSC wrote: »

Well, this one will be fun...

The Star reports that Don Balon, a Spanish sports site, are saying Jose will target

Diego Costa

to add steel to our front line.

Thats odd,seeing as it was reported that Costa wants to go back to Atleti.

Saying that,we have too many nice lads in the team,every team needs a cnut or 2 who have a win at all costs mentality.Look at so many games this season where we seemed resigned to a defeat or a draw and had zero fight.

beno619

Deleted User wrote: »

Bangkok is always using goals and assists to judge players (in all positions) when it suits him and when it comes to a striker who is known for bottling very good chances then talking about welbecks goals is very valid point.
He doesnt play midfield he is not Iniesta this place is very tilting today

This is like the myth that Rafael is a hot head and Nani doesn't track back. All the above myth's have been debunked over the past few years on this thread.

Korat

I can't believe we sold Diego Forlan.

What was Fergie thinking?

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

This is like the myth that Rafael is a hot head and Nani doesn't track back. All the above myth's have been debunked over the past few years on this thread.

Where has it been debunked that Welbeck misses a higher % of the high % chances that fall his way compared to other strikers I'd love a read of it tbh.

beno619

Deleted User wrote: »

Where has it been debunked that Welbeck misses a higher % of the high % chances that fall his way compared to other strikers I'd love a read of it tbh.

Here's one from this season but the sample size is admittedly small.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/the-stats-that-show-why-danny-welbeck-must-lead-the-arsenal-line-against-barcelona-a3203036.html

And an article that came out after the Bayern game that people allow to cloud there judgement of Welbeck.
http://talksport.com/football/suarez-and-aguero-11-pl-attackers-more-wasteful-danny-welbeck-14040386016?p=0

beno619

zerks wrote: »

RVP has 15 goals for Fenerbache this season,not bad considering he didn't play a whole lot earlier.

I dont believe RVP was finished by any stretch of the imagination, he's another player who would have been very useful in a semi functional side.

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

So you thought we had a crap squad the year we sold welbeck I'd love to see them posts, you also waxed lyrical when we signed Depay its all hindsight from you at least.

posted 10/07/15 by me

"Bayern played with Muller as a false 9/striker most of last season, they also had Lewandowski, Pizarro, Gotze who could play up there and they also had Robben who scored 19 goals last season.

We have Rooney as our only real goal getter along with Hernandez and we have to see how depay does with us.

Point is, we are still lacking that player who is guaranteed to score 20+ goals from a wide/false 9 position and if we want to do well next season we will be signing someone of that ilk. Muller/Bale would be the perfect player for us for that role, lets wait and see how it pans out"


that was me voicing concern over lack of goals in the team last year and that was with Rooney AND Hernandez.

beno619

Mars Bar wrote: »

Have ye seen Martial's interview with Shreeves? It's hard to believe the lad is only 20. That look in around 7 minutes is the one we all love!

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10208756/anthony-martial-exclusive-i-do-get-angry-and-im-a-striker-first-and-foremost

Shreeves was talking load of ****e with regards to Martial's body language during games.

Cantona's Collars

beno619 wrote: »

I dont believe RVP was finished by any stretch of the imagination, he's another player who would have been very useful in a semi functional side.

It drove me mad watching him having to drop back into midfield just to get a touch of the ball due to LVG's "philosophy".
Very hard for a striker to score without any service or being stuck 40 yards from goal just to be involved in the game.

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

Here's one from this season but the sample size is admittedly small.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/the-stats-that-show-why-danny-welbeck-must-lead-the-arsenal-line-against-barcelona-a3203036.html

And an article that came out after the Bayern game that people allow to cloud there judgement of Welbeck.
http://talksport.com/football/suarez-and-aguero-11-pl-attackers-more-wasteful-danny-welbeck-14040386016?p=0

A 5 game sample size where he score 2 goals.

And an article that says players have missed more big chances then him, which doesnt say much as if aguero missed 5 out of 100 and Welbeck missed 4/6 then that article would have Aguero higher up the list.

Nothing Debunked for me so far.

Also Welbeck fluffs his lines so often getting his feet mixed up falling over, stats dont show these things so you shouldnt base everything on stats