Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

posted 10/07/15 by me

"Bayern played with Muller as a false 9/striker most of last season, they also had Lewandowski, Pizarro, Gotze who could play up there and they also had Robben who scored 19 goals last season.

We have Rooney as our only real goal getter along with Hernandez and we have to see how depay does with us.

Point is, we are still lacking that player who is guaranteed to score 20+ goals from a wide/false 9 position and if we want to do well next season we will be signing someone of that ilk. Muller/Bale would be the perfect player for us for that role, lets wait and see how it pans out"


that was me voicing concern over lack of goals in the team last year and that was with Rooney AND Hernandez.

What has that got to do with the season we got rid of welbeck which is what we are talking about?

beno619

Deleted User wrote: »

A 5 game sample size where he score 2 goals.

And an article that says players have missed more big chances then him, which doesnt say much as if aguero missed 5 out of 100 and Welbeck missed 4/6 then that article would have Aguero higher up the list.

Nothing Debunked for me so far.

Also Welbeck fluffs his lines so often getting his feet mixed up falling over, stats dont show these things so you shouldnt base everything on stats

He has 4 goals.

Here's another on from the Moyes season, highlights how good his conversion rate was when given a chance up front.

http://eplindex.com/50523/premier-leagues-clinical-strikers-sturridge-rodriguez-cole-welbeck.html

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

What has that got to do with the season we got rid of welbeck which is what we are talking about?

it was the beginning of the terrible management by van gaal, selling a 24 year old england international and manchester local boy for a crock who only scored 4 goals with us, season before that welbeck scored 10 and was getting better and better

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

it was the beginning of the terrible management by van gaal, selling a 24 year old england international and manchester local boy for a crock who only scored 4 goals with us, season before that welbeck scored 10 and was getting better and better

And again where did you point it out at the time?

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

He has 4 goals.

Here's another on from the Moyes season, highlights how good his conversion rate was when given a chance up front.

http://eplindex.com/50523/premier-leagues-clinical-strikers-sturridge-rodriguez-cole-welbeck.html

If you can show me something that spans his career and not just snippets when he may be running well it might help convince me and it it included the chances he messes up due to falling over kicking the ball off himself and all the other funky stuff he does.

Not sure what constitutes a CCC either but that list had a top 3 strikers of

Jay Rodriquez
Danny Weleback
Charlton Cole

I wouldnt be clamouring to have the other 2 at our club atm either

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

And again where did you point it out at the time?

it was the beginning of the terrible management by van gaal

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

it was the beginning of the terrible management by van gaal

So your using hindsight cool.. TY

beno619

Deleted User wrote: »

If you can show me something that spans his career and not just snippets when he may be running well it might help convince me and it it included the chances he messes up due to falling over kicking the ball off himself and all the other funky stuff he does.

Not sure what constitutes a CCC either but that list had a top 3 strikers of

Jay Rodriquez
Danny Weleback
Charlton Cole

I wouldnt be clamouring to have the other 2 at our club atm either

You can move the goalpost's and introduce intangible metric's as much as you like.

I answered your original question

adox

The real point is that too many players were let go and not replaced. The merits of who was let go can be debated to death but the lack of replacements is the sword that Van Gaal was always going to fall on.

I'm actually surprised it's gone on this long which is another worry because it doesn't show the club in a good light.

The cherry on the cake on all of this is there was £250 million invested into this current squad and it's actually thread bare.

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

So your using hindsight cool.. TY

maybe you just ignored my other point from 2015 about concern over lack of goals in the team??

adox

Forgot to say earlier .......


Go Leicester

Whatsisname

Varela left out of the squad for City. What a fúcking joke that is.

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

You can move the goalpost's and introduce intangible metric's as much as you like.

I answered your original question

You said its been debunked I asked where you haven't debunked anything as of yet. There is no moving of goal postsI'd said he messes up a higher % of chances then normal and I'm still saying as such.

You have used shot conversion ratio (5 game sample) Clear-cut Chance Conversion (15-20 game sample) and number of good chances missed.

You have used 3 different stat models over 3 seasons at varying periods of time all of which say different things to try disprove Welbeck messes up a higher then normal % of high % chances. Failing to do so.

I ask for 1 set of stats over his career and you cant provide them. You then use that old I'm moving the goal posts bit even though i'm still steadfast on what I said originally.

TBH it looks like you googling random articles about welbeck and just throwing them up and making no effort to debunk what you already said has been. Your now in strawman mode so I won't be bothering with that

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

maybe you just ignored my other point from 2015 about concern over lack of goals in the team??

We were talking about the season before when Welbeck left and you quote urself from the year after :pac: and dont even refer to Welbeck in the actuall quote...

Your a funny dude..

beno619

Deleted User wrote: »

You said its been debunked I asked where you haven't debunked anything as of yet. There is no moving of goal postsI'd said he messes up a higher % of chances then normal and I'm still saying as such.

You have used shot conversion ratio (5 game sample) Clear-cut Chance Conversion (15-20 game sample) and number of good chances missed.

You have used 3 different stat models over 3 seasons at varying periods of time all of which say different things to try disprove Welbeck messes up a higher then normal % of high % chances. Failing to do so.

I ask for 1 set of stats over his career and you cant provide them. You then use that old I'm moving the goal posts bit even though i'm still steadfast on what I said originally.

TBH it looks like you googling random articles about welbeck and just throwing them up and making no effort to debunk what you already said has been. Your now in strawman mode so I won't be bothering with that

bangkok

Deleted User wrote: »

We were talking about the season before when Welbeck left and you quote urself from the year after :pac: and dont even refer to Welbeck in the actuall quote...

Your a funny dude..

i cant believe there is still actually someone trying to defend van gaal's squad management :eek:

Whatsisname

bangkok wrote: »

i cant believe there is still actually someone trying to defend van gaal's squad management :eek:

I can't believe you're still arguing about Welbeck.

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

i cant believe there is still actually someone trying to defend van gaal's squad management :eek:

This is a joke ya.. After everything that is always said to you. Your pulling a funny surely?

ya?
YA?

Right I wasnt going to but im off drinking see ye tomoro,

Lord TSC

Delaney: Jose Mourinho to make £60m Tottenham striker Harry Kane his top target

MEN say the 18 man squad is:
De Gea, Romero, Darmian, Valencia, Fosu-Mensah, Smalling, Blind, Rojo, Schneiderlin, Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Fellaini, Mata, Januzaj, Lingard, Memphis, Martial, Rashford
Thats based on who arrived at the hotel today. Worth noting they said Blind wasn't with the team last match, but played any way.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Lord TSC wrote: »

Delaney: Jose Mourinho to make £60m Tottenham striker Harry Kane his top target

MEN say the 18 man squad is:
De Gea, Romero, Darmian, Valencia, Fosu-Mensah, Smalling, Blind, Rojo, Schneiderlin, Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Fellaini, Mata, Januzaj, Lingard, Memphis, Martial, Rashford
Thats based on who arrived at the hotel today. Worth noting they said Blind wasn't with the team last match, but played any way.

Please let that article be true. The most common sense squad management in years that even fans that have seen one game could telll you but for some reason the management haven't seen in years.

Liam O

Whatsisname wrote: »

Varela left out of the squad for City. What a fúcking joke that is.

In fairness bar his crossing i don't think he has one attribute you could say is better than Darmian or Valencia

Whatsisname

Liam O wrote: »

In fairness bar his crossing i don't think he has one attribute you could say is better than Darmian or Valencia

More so, be at fault for a goal, get hooked immediately at half time and then kicked out of the next match day squad that irks me. Terrible for his confidence.

Korat

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Please let that article be true. The most common sense squad management in years that even fans that have seen one game could telll you but for some reason the management haven't seen in years.

Just thinking about a fresh start is a good feeling right now.

StringerBell

Whatsisname wrote: »

More so, be at fault for a goal, get hooked immediately at half time and then kicked out of the next match day squad that irks me. Terrible for his confidence.

Could have sworn I read he had a slight strain which is why he came off, I'll have to go digging.

Liam O

Whatsisname wrote: »

More so, be at fault for a goal, get hooked immediately at half time and then kicked out of the next match day squad that irks me. Terrible for his confidence.

Maybe, i think he should have been dropped as soon as Darmian came back. He's not a great player imo. Grand as a carling cup type player but will never be a starter level player imo (famous last words)

eagle eye

I've watched Rayo Vallecano play six times this season and I gotta say that they are getting it out of Bebe. He is on loan there from Benfica and he really has turned into a decent player. He is 25 years old now.

Smegball

Harry Kane would be an amazing signing. However, if Lukaku was to cost a similar price; who would be the better buy?

Lord TSC

Smegball wrote: »

Harry Kane would be an amazing signing. However, if Lukaku was to cost a similar price; who would be the better buy?

From a marketing point, I would imagine they would prefer Kane; United always liked having top English talent when possible.

either would be amazing.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Lord TSC wrote: »

From a marketing point, I would imagine they would prefer Kane; United always liked having top English talent when possible.

either would be amazing.

Also Jose wouldnt go for Lukaku as he got rid initially

Lord TSC

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Also Jose wouldnt go for Lukaku as he got rid initially

Lukaku is on record saying that Jose supported the move, was the first to congratulate on it, and there is no hard feelings there at all.

Harry Kane for me aswell few slight factors would sway that decision but if both leave during the summer I think we will see Kane go for about 33% more in price

Rossi IRL

Think it was said in here a few weeks ago when people were discussing how Van Gaal wasnt playing the youth by choice but only cause he had no one else.

Think somebody said (possibly me) that once Valencia was back that wouldbe the end of Varela.

Looks like its true.

Once young is back it will be the end of Rashfords game time.

Tippex

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Also Jose wouldnt go for Lukaku as he got rid initially

Why do people assume that because a manager was in charge and a player was sold that he would do it again. Lukaku wanted first team football and there is no way Jose would have been able to guarantee that.
We have a totally different squad than what chelsea had (there is no guarantee he would get rid of Mata if he get the job imo)

Crimson King

eagle eye wrote: »

I've watched Rayo Vallecano play six times this season and I gotta say that they are getting it out of Bebe. He is on loan there from Benfica and he really has turned into a decent player. He is 25 years old now.

Don't United have a clause where they receive 50% of any fee if benfica sell him? Fair play to the lad, glad he turned things around

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Tippex wrote: »

Why do people assume that because a manager was in charge and a player was sold that he would do it again. Lukaku wanted first team football and there is no way Jose would have been able to guarantee that.
We have a totally different squad than what chelsea had (there is no guarantee he would get rid of Mata if he get the job imo)

Because he may not want to buy a player for 60/70 that he sold for 30. Obviously no hard feelings but just out a pride he block it.

Liam McPoyle

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Because he may not want to buy a player for 60/70 that he sold for 30. Obviously no hard feelings but just out a pride he block it.

Matic?

Granted the fees were similar but Jose has proven he can hold his hands up when he makes a mistake with a transfer.

Obviously a different team too.

jayo26

Business Cat wrote: »

Matic?

Granted the fees were similar but Jose has proven he can hold his hands up when he makes a mistake with a transfer.

Obviously a different team too.

Jose didn't sell matic tho? He didn't join chelsea until few years after mourinho left and he had already left for Benfica as part of the David luiz deal long before jose went back to chelsea.

But I dont think jose would shy away from a chance to sign lukaku if he needed him.

Lord TSC

El Pais saying we have a pre-contract with Jose. Sourcing this from Reddit.

Here is the translation from @CheGiaevara
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711319466878083072
It is being reported by @diegotorresro that Manchester United have signed a pre-agreement with José Mourinho.
It is being written that Mourinho and United have signed a common contract that gurantees United "the rights" to secure Mourinho next season
This contract is also said to maintain a clause that guarantees Mourinho a payment should United now decide against hiring him as manager.
The contract, which @diegotorresro , reports on states that if Man United have not signed a formal contract with Mourinho by May 1st ...
...then United will have to pay Mourinho £5million. If he is not signed by June 1st, they must pay another £10million.

Tippex

Lord TSC wrote: »

El Pais saying we have a pre-contract with Jose. Sourcing this from Reddit.

Here is the translation from @CheGiaevara
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711319466878083072
It is being reported by @diegotorresro that Manchester United have signed a pre-agreement with José Mourinho.
It is being written that Mourinho and United have signed a common contract that gurantees United "the rights" to secure Mourinho next season
This contract is also said to maintain a clause that guarantees Mourinho a payment should United now decide against hiring him as manager.
The contract, which @diegotorresro , reports on states that if Man United have not signed a formal contract with Mourinho by May 1st ...
...then United will have to pay Mourinho £5million. If he is not signed by June 1st, they must pay another £10million.

wow thats some contract to not be signed by the club tho I would be shocked if he is announced by may 1st

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/elpais_deportes/status/711315134766030848

https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711319989496762368
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711320140424593408
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711320874562019329
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711321154552729600
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711321525232791554
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711321693797654528
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711322264881512449
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711322428971065345
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711322735666970624
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711323095932530689
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711323485260357636

Headshot

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/elpais_deportes/status/711315134766030848

https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711319989496762368
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711320140424593408
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711320874562019329
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711321154552729600
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711321525232791554
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711321693797654528
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711322264881512449
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711322428971065345
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711322735666970624
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711323095932530689
https://twitter.com/CheGiaevara/status/711323485260357636

I really starting to dislike so many unwanted voices at utd. One man should be in charge and thats woodward and he should be the only person who decides on management.

Headshot

Headshot wrote: »

I really starting to dislike so many unwanted voices at utd. One man should be in charge and thats woodward and he should be the only person who decides on management.

This just seems to me like you take lots of rumours, (Charlton, Ferguson dont like Mourhino)+(Jose signed up for the summer) a pinch of Real were in for him and a little twist of some very in depth contract details with the added on benifit of being able to claim you were right either way and you have this weeks click bait.

Why no details of contract length or how much he would be getting paid, bonuses etc how does one get such specific in depth knwoledge without having it all.

Liam McPoyle

jayo26 wrote: »

Jose didn't sell matic tho? He didn't join chelsea until few years after mourinho left and he had already left for Benfica as part of the David luiz deal long before jose went back to chelsea.

But I dont think jose would shy away from a chance to sign lukaku if he needed him.

I had it in my head that he did for some reason.

FutureGuy

Korat wrote: »

Just thinking about a fresh start is a good feeling right now.

Good with youth, they said.
Gives them a chance, they said.

Pro. F

Headshot wrote: »

I really starting to dislike so many unwanted voices at utd. One man should be in charge and thats woodward and he should be the only person who decides on management.

I would much, much, much rather have Ferguson choosing the managers than Woodward or any similar suit.

Smegball

It would be interesting to see who Jose could tempt to join us if he signed regardless of CL football.

Been a while here but team prediction for Tomoro

---

DDG

Valencia_Mike_Blind_Rojo

_____Morgan_Bastian

Ball----Played----Backwards




---Hey guys I'm over here

Donnielighto

I still think selling nani was a huge mistake

IamtheWalrus

Lord TSC wrote: »

El Pais saying we have a pre-contract with Jose. Sourcing this from Reddit.
It is being reported by @diegotorresro that Manchester United have signed a pre-agreement with José Mourinho.
It is being written that Mourinho and United have signed a common contract that gurantees United "the rights" to secure Mourinho next season
This contract is also said to maintain a clause that guarantees Mourinho a payment should United now decide against hiring him as manager.
The contract, which @diegotorresro , reports on states that if Man United have not signed a formal contract with Mourinho by May 1st ...
...then United will have to pay Mourinho £5million. If he is not signed by June 1st, they must pay another £10million.

What a load of nonsense.

Giggsy11

Pro. F wrote: »

I would much, much, much rather have Ferguson choosing the managers than Woodward or any similar suit.

As good as manager he was, he made some terrible appointments/recommendations in the past. Moyes to United, McCleish to Villa and there must be few more Scottish managers to decent teams.