Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

bangkok

beno619 wrote: »

I like how people are now using Fergie's statement about Jones as a stick to beat him with.

Not so long ago people used to write off Smalling the same way all it took was an injury free season for Smalling to prove Fergie correct.

id say it was less than a year ago when I said smalling would walk onto the Barcelona team and was laughed out of here. Id like to see what people think about that now

Flint Fredstone

bangkok wrote: »

rvp was in the final year of his contract and was close to 30.

Andy Carroll went to Liverpool for 35m and west ham for 18m. We sold to a direct rival a better player for 16m which has improved their team and weakened ours. terrible deal

Yeah and Arsenal paid £3m for Van Persie so if you use my example we got a great deal. Maybe you can counter with another ridiculously overpriced transfer to strengthen your argument?

Chris_Bradley

bangkok wrote: »

id say it was less than a year ago when I said smalling would walk onto the Barcelona team and was laughed out of here. Id like to see what people think about that now

Having a great season but his man-marking skills is poor and anyone who actually watched that game v City would have said Aquero could easily have had a hat-trick & Smalling could easily have been sent off because of his constant wandering of the hands.

You're still being laughed at - Barcelona??

LMAO!!

Maximus Alexander

zerks wrote: »

Took a bit of looking but it is over a 5 second burst.That is the difference between getting away from a defender or being tackled.

I'd be very dubious about that one. If that's his average pace over a 5 second burst, he's covering 48 metres in 5 seconds. About half the length of the pitch. How often do you reckon Bastian sprints that distance, particularly at close to the pace of Olympic level sprinters? I've a strong suspicion it's actually a 'peak' speed measured over some pointlessly short distance.

bangkok

Chris_Bradley wrote: »

Having a great season but his man-marking skills is poor and anyone who actually watched that game v City would have said Aquero could easily have had a hat-trick & Smalling could easily have been sent off because of his constant wandering of the hands.

You're still being laughed at - Barcelona??

LMAO!!

Jermey Mathieu plays centre back for Barcelona.

Thomas Vermalaen was signed by Barca 2 years ago.

Javier Mascherano plays centre back for barca.

I guess you knew all that already :rolleyes:


also you clearly didn't watch the game if you think aguero could "easily have scored a hat trick"

Your Airbag

bangkok wrote: »

rvp was in the final year of his contract and was close to 30.

Andy Carroll went to Liverpool for 35m and west ham for 18m. We sold to a direct rival a better player for 16m which has improved their team and weakened ours. terrible deal

RVP had bags and bags of quality when we bought him. He was world class and we got him for a great price. Not a complete steal but a little lower than what I owuld have expected but like you said his contract and his desire to join us helped in that regard.

Like I said its a modern day world of crazy prices. Carroll for 35m was one of those, 18m to WHU was still slightly high but closer to his true value. Pool sold a declining Torres to Chelsea for 50m, another crazy deal. David Luiz for 50m? lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Welbeck was priced right. Schweinsteiger apparently cost us only 6.5m, an absolute steal. We paid 36m up front for Martial but with three bonus clauses, worth 7.2m each, that fee could rise to 57.6m. A grossly overpriced fee for an unproven teen at the time. Martial will certainly go on to hit two of those clauses without question imo.

So we will almost certainly pay 50m for Martial. If he goes on to fulfill his potential that could turn out to be the right price depending on re-sale value but as of now we overpayed.

Thats the transfer market for you these days, its very rare they get it right and Welbeck was one of those rare occasions.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

rvp was in the final year of his contract and was close to 30.

Andy Carroll went to Liverpool for 35m and west ham for 18m. We sold to a direct rival a better player for 16m which has improved their team and weakened ours. terrible deal

Again...at the point of the sale, this is not true.

We had Van Persie,Falcao and Rooney. Hernandez loan deal was still in the mix the same day.

We sold a 4th/5th choice striker and got 16m.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Again...at the point of the sale, this is not true.

We had Van Persie,Falcao and Rooney. Hernandez loan deal was still in the mix the same day.

We sold a 4th/5th choice striker and got 16m.

why do you insist on calling him a striker when he play majority of career left wing?

Mitch Connor

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/OleOleUnited/status/712239976268894208

"Which lad stood out?"
"Dunno, one with the hair stood out a fair bit alright"
<Some time later>
United sign Chong

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

We sold a 4th/5th choice striker and got 16m.

We sold a 23 year old english international striker with a number of years left on his contract to a direct rival for only 16 million.

Whether you rate Wellbeck or not, I think in todays market we could negotiated more money than that.

Billy86

Your Airbag wrote: »

RVP had bags and bags of quality when we bought him. He was world class and we got him for a great price. Not a complete steal but a little lower than what I owuld have expected but like you said his contract and his desire to join us helped in that regard.

Like I said its a modern day world of crazy prices. Carroll for 35m was one of those, 18m to WHU was still slightly high but closer to his true value. Pool sold a declining Torres to Chelsea for 50m, another crazy deal. David Luiz for 50m? lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Welbeck was priced right. Schweinsteiger apparently cost us only 6.5m, an absolute steal. We paid 36m up front for Martial but with three bonus clauses, worth 7.2m each, that fee could rise to 57.6m. A grossly overpriced fee for an unproven teen at the time. Martial will certainly go on to hit two of those clauses without question imo.

So we will almost certainly pay 50m for Martial. If he goes on to fulfill his potential that could turn out to be the right price depending on re-sale value but as of now we overpayed.

Thats the transfer market for you these days, its very rare they get it right and Welbeck was one of those rare occasions.

The market and associated costs are simply bigger than they used to be for known quantities or players seen to have very high potential, to be honest. As for costs of young players, again there is a mark up - lots of people (the majority even?) thought we vastly overpaid for DDG, but less than a year ago were giving out about him being 'stolen' for around 10mn more. Likewise when we paid 27mn for Ferdinand, as that was a comically large fee for a defender in 2002... but ten odd years later, it was one of the best signings any team made that decade and was more than worth the money.

Cantona's Collars

bucketybuck wrote: »

We sold a 23 year old english international striker with a number of years left on his contract to a direct rival for only 16 million.

Whether you rate Wellbeck or not, I think in todays market we could negotiated more money than that.

United really are rubbish at selling players,look at Levy.That man knows how to squeeze every penny out of the buying club.

Cantona's Collars

More LVG photoshop goodness:

...either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a tasteless meme.

Cantona's Collars

Mitch Connor wrote: »

"Which lad stood out?"
"Dunno, one with the hair stood out a fair bit alright"
<Some time later>
United sign Chong

All we need now is to sign someone called Cheech.


Many here will be too young to get that.;)

bangkok

The Telegraph have compiled a list of the 20 dirtiest players to grace the Premier League over the past five years, and there are plenty of familiar faces making the cut.
The list takes into account yellow and red cards awarded to a player, as well as the number of fouls committed, with Ireland midfielder James McCarthy finding himself in ninth place, despite not receiving a red card in his Premier League career.

However, a tally of 30 yellows and nearly 200 fouls over the last half-decade sees the Everton man into the top ten.
It is no surprise to see McCarthy trailing the likes of Lee Cattermole and Charlie Adam, while the identity of the man in the number one spot won't shock a soul who watched the recent Europa League encounters between Manchester United and Liverpool.

Yes, the Premier League's dirtiest player is Marouane Fellaini, who elbows his way to the top spot with a whopping 296 fouls, 23 yellows and one red card.

Here's the top ten:

10. Ramires
9. James McCarthy
8. Morgan Schneiderlin
7. Lee Cattermole
6. Craig Gardner
5. Jack Colback
4. Charlie Adam
3. Cheick Tiote
2. Gareth Barry
1. Marouane Fellaini

Maximus Alexander

Text needs to be bigger, and preferably in flashing colours. You're not being enough of a parody of yourself.

bangkok

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Text needs to be bigger, and preferably in flashing colours. You're not being enough of a parody of yourself.

copy and paste job, text wouldn't change

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

The Telegraph have compiled a list of the 20 dirtiest players to grace the Premier League over the past five years, and there are plenty of familiar faces making the cut.
The list takes into account yellow and red cards awarded to a player, as well as the number of fouls committed, with Ireland midfielder James McCarthy finding himself in ninth place, despite not receiving a red card in his Premier League career.

However, a tally of 30 yellows and nearly 200 fouls over the last half-decade sees the Everton man into the top ten.
It is no surprise to see McCarthy trailing the likes of Lee Cattermole and Charlie Adam, while the identity of the man in the number one spot won't shock a soul who watched the recent Europa League encounters between Manchester United and Liverpool.

Yes, the Premier League's dirtiest player is Marouane Fellaini, who elbows his way to the top spot with a whopping 296 fouls, 23 yellows and one red card.

Here's the top ten:

10. Ramires
9. James McCarthy
8. Morgan Schneiderlin
7. Lee Cattermole
6. Craig Gardner
5. Jack Colback
4. Charlie Adam
3. Cheick Tiote
2. Gareth Barry
1. Marouane Fellaini

You really pull out the crap stats lol. Who cares if he gets yellow cards he is rarely suspended and only one red card in what 8 years in the league he played probably twice the number of games as alot of the others on the list so naturally he is gonna have picked up more.

Edit: you have a serious problem haha.

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

You really pull out the crap stats lol. Who cares if he gets yellow cards he is rarely suspended and only one red card in what 8 years in the league he played probably twice the number of games as alot of the others on the list so naturally he is gonna have picked up more.

there was nothing else in todays news only this..

http://metro.co.uk/2016/03/21/manchester-united-have-far-better-record-without-marouane-fellaini-5764642/

:P

Jayop

Of the 296 fouls awarded against Fellaini probably only half of the were fouls and probably a 1/4 of them were actually fouls against him. However he probably should have closer to 10 red cards in that time.

Refs simply don't know how to manage him. He's constantly involved in bad refereeing decisions both for and against him.

Martypants1

Jayop wrote: »

That's not enough. You can't expect a 17 yo from the academy to be good enough or better immediately that some buy from Spain at 24. You have to make them better. You do that by giving them chances, helping them, working with them, encouraging the entire academy and give them belief by playing them which in turn will give them more of a target to aim for.

Mourinho in all his jobs after Porto has failed to do any of that in a real manner.

I think John Giles or Dunphy (forget who it was) put it well before...

These young players are given debuts willy nilly without proving they deserve one. You must remember some of these kids aren't eager, willing to run their bollix off as they are filthy rich for their age and think they've made it.

I think the kids need to do it consistently at u-21 level to get a chance in the first team. Did Tyler Blackett deserve to play for us last year? Did McNair?

I want every single youth player busting their balls for the opportunity to play for the first team. Most kids that play for Man Utd, that's their career highlight, being a Man Utd player.

What's wrong with going the Lingard way and sending him out on loan for a few years? Because that's exactly what Chelsea are doing except they're sending them abroad.

Your Airbag

Fellaini being the dirtiest player in the EPL is a source of pride and a badge of honor imo. Every team needs a pr1ck.

He's our pr1ck.

Jayop

Martypants1 wrote: »

I think John Giles or Dunphy (forget who it was) put it well before...

These young players are given debuts willy nilly without proving they deserve one. You must remember some of these kids aren't eager, willing to run their bollix off as they are filthy rich for their age and think they've made it.

I think the kids need to do it consistently at u-21 level to get a chance in the first team. Did Tyler Blackett deserve to play for us last year? Did McNair?

I want every single youth player busting their balls for the opportunity to play for the first team. Most kids that play for Man Utd, that's their career highlight, being a Man Utd player.

What's wrong with going the Lingard way and sending him out on loan for a few years? Because that's exactly what Chelsea are doing except they're sending them abroad.

IMO the loan system is a load of bollocks. If someone can point to examples where it has actually helped United more than just putting the players in the fist team squad then I'll be shocked.

By all accounts Rashford didn't deserve his chance going by hos performances for the U21s so I wouldn't read too much into that.

The kids are about the only single positive this year so lets not diminish that in some point scoring exercise.

Cantona's Collars

Chelsea use the loan system to farm out young talent and help bypass FFP.

Sign a kid,loan him out and see him improve then sell him on for a tidy profit,very cynical by them using kids like that but it is happening.

Martypants1

StringerBell wrote: »

Its important from a business perspective to have a good academy, it is also beneficial due to regulations regarding squad registration. Does it mean all players coming through have to be superstars? Course not, sure its impossible to keep a squad full of superstars happy, but it would be nice to have a balance between the foreign and non foreign players at the club.

You need players who are happy to be rotational players and not kick up a fuss, if your academy can produce those kind of players for your team it is great, you can go out and buy your top level players who are going to propel your team forward. The success will be built on the back of the squad though, and if one or two of those academy players can go right to the top now and then thats a huge bonus, but not the main point of having an academy in the modern game.

Squad balance is hugely important in football.

LVG had squad players from the academy and he sold them and purchased more expensive players.

Evans, Rafael, Welbeck were replaced by non academy players with decent fees for squad players.

Cantona's Collars

Just to temper our excitement over Jose,he is waiting for Ed to have the cajones to get rid of LVG.

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/l-equipe-mourinho-waiting-for-woodward-to-have-the-guts-to-sack-l

Martypants1

Jayop wrote: »

IMO the loan system is a load of bollocks. If someone can point to examples where it has actually helped United more than just putting the players in the fist team squad then I'll be shocked.

By all accounts Rashford didn't deserve his chance going by hos performances for the U21s so I wouldn't read too much into that.

The kids are about the only single positive this year so lets not diminish that in some point scoring exercise.

You were probably thinking Blackett and McNair were positives of last season when in fact all we got from them in essence was mediocrity.

There was hype about young Riley but his 5 mins of fame is over now and will likely never return to the first team.

J. Marston

One red in 5 years? What a brute....

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

But as was evident in his first spell at Chelsea, he created such a monstrous team, that they asserted themselves on every game.

That is not true. They played defensive, boring football often enough.

Jayop

Martypants1 wrote: »

LVG had squad players from the academy and he sold them and purchased more expensive players.

Evans, Rafael, Welbeck were replaced by non academy players with decent fees for squad players.

Who were Evans, Rafael and Welbecks replacements?

Martypants1 wrote: »

You were probably thinking Blackett and McNair were positives of last season when in fact all we got from them in essence was mediocrity.

There was hype about young Riley but his 5 mins of fame is over now and will likely never return to the first team.

McNair more so than Blackett. I still think he has a good future in front of him. Maybe not at United but that's hardly an indication of total failure of our academy or the player.

I didn't hear any hype about Riley.

Martypants1

Pro. F wrote: »

That is not true. They played defensive, boring football often enough.

Look what open attacking football has gotten City this year.

Billy86

Martypants1 wrote: »

Look what open attacking football has gotten City this year.

One point ahead of our boring, defensive football...

Jayop

Billy86 wrote: »

One point ahead of our boring, defensive football...

So a dismal return then.

Quandary

City weren't doing too badly at all up until Pep was formally announced. Since his announcement they have only won 3 of their last 10 games.

If Pep had kept his mouth shut and City had kept it under wraps until the summer they would be well within touching distance of the title IMO.

The club look like they're in free fall since Pep was confirmed. They weren't even able to look up for it against us at the Etihad, and lord knows even the most average of teams can give us a right mauling these days.

Billy86

Jayop wrote: »

So a dismal return then.

Thus proving that you don't guarantee points/success solely on the basis of being an attacking, or defensive, team.

the whole year inn

Billy86 wrote: »

One point ahead of our boring, defensive football...

Still in the champions league and won the cap cup,United highlight of the year is beating City.

Billy86

the whole year inn wrote: »

Still in the champions league and won the cap cup,United highlight of the year is beating City.

Uh... huh. Are you trying to make a point here?

Maximus Alexander

the whole year inn wrote: »

Still in the champions league and won the cap cup,United highlight of the year is beating City.

Nope, United's highlights of the year are Anthony Martial, Marcus Rashford, and doing the double over Liverpool in the league for the second year running.

The mighty have fallen, sure, but you still extract whatever joy you can.

Pro. F

Martypants1 wrote: »

Look what open attacking football has gotten City this year.

Do you think City this season are the only team who have ever played positive football or something?

Jayop

Billy86 wrote: »

Thus proving that you don't guarantee points/success solely on the basis of being an attacking, or defensive, team.

I honestly don't think anyone has ever made that assertion.

Playing attractive attacking football is just as likely to lead to success as dour defensive football and if you have good attacking players then you're much more likely to win games by letting them play.

However if you're a team built up with non inventive poor enough players then dour long ball crap is probably the way to go.

I know which I'd rather have.

Jayop

Leicester are playing both attacking and defensive football at the same time and it's working well for them. In fact I've always felt United were the prettiest to watch when playing counter attacking.

jayo26

the whole year inn wrote: »

Still in the champions league and won the cap cup,United highlight of the year is beating City.

Lol you wish the highlight of our year was beating Liverpool no matter what ye think the rivalary will never be same as beating pool in there back garden ye dont come close to their history and pedigree.

Jayop

I don't think anyone even really got that excited about beating City. IIRC my comment after the game was something like 'great result, **** performance'.

Beating Liverpool at OT was my highlight this year because I was there.

Billy86

Martypants1 wrote: »

I think John Giles or Dunphy (forget who it was) put it well before...

These young players are given debuts willy nilly without proving they deserve one. You must remember some of these kids aren't eager, willing to run their bollix off as they are filthy rich for their age and think they've made it.

I think the kids need to do it consistently at u-21 level to get a chance in the first team. Did Tyler Blackett deserve to play for us last year? Did McNair?

I want every single youth player busting their balls for the opportunity to play for the first team. Most kids that play for Man Utd, that's their career highlight, being a Man Utd player.

What's wrong with going the Lingard way and sending him out on loan for a few years? Because that's exactly what Chelsea are doing except they're sending them abroad.

Forgot to add that in fairness, neither Giles nor Dunphy have any relevance to the modern game anymore.

Rather than Blackett and McNair at CB for us last year, who would you rather have played for us instead of them? Remembering our backline was decimated with injuries. Likewise, it would mean we wouldn't be contemplating even putting Rashford in the first team.

Not intended as a go at you, but those two guys have as good as no clue about what they're taking about at this point.

Billy86

Jayop wrote: »

I honestly don't think anyone has ever made that assertion.

Playing attractive attacking football is just as likely to lead to success as dour defensive football and if you have good attacking players then you're much more likely to win games by letting them play.

However if you're a team built up with non inventive poor enough players then dour long ball crap is probably the way to go.

I know which I'd rather have.

Oh me too of course, but there's a time and a place for each. Mourinho in his first spell at Chelsea did play defensive football which was at times quite boring, but they did play attacking too - they had the 2nd most goals in the league his first season, and the tied most his second.

Jayop

Billy86 wrote: »

Oh me too of course, but there's a time and a place for each. Mourinho in his first spell at Chelsea did play defensive football which was at times quite boring, but they did play attacking too - they had the 2nd most goals in the league his first season, and the tied most his second.

Did Chelsea not near the record for goals scored in a season recently too or was that some other manager?

jayo26

Jayop wrote: »

Did Chelsea not near the record for goals scored in a season recently too or was that some other manager?

That dont count cause they sit back against some big teams

Jayop

jayo26 wrote: »

That dont count cause they sit back against some big teams

Brendan Rodgers likes this. :pac:

Billy86

Jayop wrote: »

Did Chelsea not near the record for goals scored in a season recently too or was that some other manager?

Pretty sure that was under Hiddink in 2009/10, though he had them in a more attacking fashion. Interestingly though, the shape of each team was pretty similar if I recall (probably helped that the players were the same - that was a serious spine/core they had), they trailed Jose's two winning seasons by 5-10 points but were fantastic team to watch.

Also frustrating to watch, because they beat us by a point (I'll never forget Neville in that end of season game ) and Florent Malouda appeared to be playing FIFA in real life at times: go down wing, cut inside near the line, shoot or square it to Drogba. Goal. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.