We get what we deserve

Centaur

One of the factors that was blamed for the economic crash was the behaviour known as ‘group think’. In my opinion this was substituted during the recent recession by ‘group moan’. This is not to belittle the real suffering and hardship that many people endured but it naively assumed that there was some sort of alternative to plugging the massive hole that was left in our finances.

The call cry of the ‘group moan’ brigade is of course anti-austerity. Something they can hitch their hat too. The alluring central theme of anti-austerity is to burn the bondholders. More to the point perhaps is that Irish people shouldn’t have to pay the gambling debts of European and Irish banks. In an ideal world that would be the case but such is the importance of a functioning banking system to an economy that imposing such losses on these banks would have been disastrous. It wasn’t of course fair that Irish taxpayers had to shoulder all of the cost, and I absolutely agree with this, but I am also sure that the government tried their best in this regard without resorting to the megaphone diplomacy that proved so disastrous for the Greeks. However the intransigence of the ECB particularly proved too much of a stumbling block.

I don’t want to pay water charges or the household charge or the USC no more than anyone else does. But I am also realistic. We backed ourselves into a corner. There is no point in saying it wasn’t my fault. There is no ‘I’ in democracy. We voted in a Fianna Fail led government for 15 years, despite all of the tribunals, corruption (particularly at local council level) and dodgy financial arrangements. We get what we deserve and it looks like we are going to do it again. A new dail festooned with Independents. What a joke.

I think the ‘group moan’ attitude can be summarised in one sentence.

“We want things to be the way the were and we want someone else to pay for it.”

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

Not sure theres much to discuss per se in this but ill leave it open for the moment.

OP, do you have an alternative suggestion as to how to run the country?

Centaur

I don’t necessarily have an alternative. I was quite happy with how the FG/LAB government performed in the circumstances. I would like to see them voted back in again.

I think my post gets to the nub of the matter doesn’t it? This is the battleground where this election is being fought. The ‘austerity’ policies of the last five years. The stranded floating vote doesn’t know where to go. They can’t go back to Fianna Fail because they still haven’t forgiven them. For many, Sinn Fein is not a party that they can support. Fianna Gael and Labour weren’t able to magic the problems away. Everybody has let them down.

My argument is that the belt tightening of the last five years was inevitable given the circumstances. Certainly there is nit picking to be done for each individual decision and mistakes were made. You will always find people on the margins who deserve to be treated better than they are. The homeless situation for instance is terrible. It’s awful. But is that what people are really thinking about when they go to the polling booths? Or is it water charges and the household tax? Anybody who thinks things the situation could have been any better in the last five years is delusional in my opinion.

Idbatterim

My argument is that the belt tightening of the last five years was inevitable given the circumstances. Certainly there is nit picking to be done for each individual decision and mistakes were made. You will always find people on the margins who deserve to be treated better than they are. The homeless situation for instance is terrible. It’s awful. But is that what people are really thinking about when they go to the polling booths? Or is it water charges and the household tax? Anybody who thinks things the situation could have been any better in the last five years is delusional in my opinion.

nail on the head, I have said the same myself on this forum recently. Insane amounts were borrowed so that we wouldnt have to suffer a servere shock to living standards, which were extremely high during the boom and actually unsustainable. Welfare, PS pay and pensions, all of it was based on unsustainable ridiculous growth rates, when these collapsed, the rates of welfare, PS pay etc, only dropped marginally. As Kenny said earlier, "some people wouldnt know sunshine if they saw it"!

But I do believel all the people who think they are being shafted, do genuinely believe they are and arent simply trying to leveryage more from the government. Pretty much most of the media and VB, is all left wing, people keep on hearing the same things being trotted out ad nauseam, they will take it for truth...

Hilden

I totally agree with the sentiments of the original post. This negativity is leading to some incredibly poor promises and a totally direction-less form of politics. We now have a bunch of politicians who are pushed into a corner of giving handouts to buy this election because they see no other way of winning. This even applies to those who are saying they won't reduce USC. They're offering to scrap other taxes i.e. water and property.
What seems most dangerous about the group moan is that people will vote for anyone who isn't the government or FF. This was something I warned people in the Labour party of during the last general election; that the promises that were being made by Labour were unsustainable and were being used to maximise popularity rather than to create a critical mass to 'end austerity' which was financially impossible. As someone who canvassed for the Labour party I can tell you that when you told people the truth such as there will be water charges as well as property tax they didn't want to listen. When you 'listened' to them and appeared empathetic they were delighted to have an auld moan. A party such as Sinn Fein who are as establishment as any other are now getting support from the group moaners who gave their vote to Labour last time.
This is visible also in the debates. The thing about Stephen Donnelly that helped him stand out in the debates was that he wasn't consistently moaning about how bad everything was. The other parties just went on and on about how bad everything was which we know already. This may let them appear empathetic but it doesn't show any political vision at all. All that seems to be available is 'we will undo all the bad stuff and everything will be awesome'.
This isn't just an Irish thing. There is a sense of abandonment by large sections of the European Population which has lead to an anti-politics feeling and the rise of some of the craziest populists. Thankfully ours aren't on the right. This isn't helped by the media. No I don't think the media is biased either to left or right. You only have to look at Vincent Brown to see the media it is actually trying to present this cynical 'Ah sure you're all the same' attitude. This is a media that is experiencing a lot of the issues similar to other sectors such as declining working conditions, more competition from cheaper low quality operators and a lack of time for proper research or formation of ideas. They are merely finding the easy way out and that is to moan rather than present a proper vision.
So yes we get what we deserve because we believe what we want to hear rather than realising that long term growth and an increase in living standards requires some form of sacrifice and I can tell you this site will be full of 'Sinn Fein and AAA are rubbish' posts in 5 years time.

NIMAN

I am finding the auction politics of this campaign very worrying, especially as so many experts are telling us we are on the verge of another collapse at least equal to that of 2008.

You'd think it was 2005 again, the way every party is offering to give us everything we desire.

If there was a party out there who was honest and said we need to keep the USC, water charges and property tax, they'd get my vote. Unfortunately there is no-one brave enough, as the sheep would all moan and vote them out, as all the people want to hear is about giveaways.

Hilden

'If there was a party out there who was honest and said we need to keep the USC, water charges and property tax, they'd get my vote'

I'm not a member but the Greens are offering just this. Granted it's hard to vote for them given the whole 'worst government of all time' thing but check it out. They might just fit the bill. At least they might get their deposit back!

gandalf

As long as the election for a National Parliament is based on personality local politics we will keep electing people who are not fit for purpose to the Dail.

From my perspective there is very little choice on who to vote for. This election for example I will be voting to keep certain people out not really voting on who to get in???

I am said this numerous times before but I believe for the National Parliament a nominated list system be implemented where people vote for the policies of the parties they want to get into power and not on whether John Joe McRottencrotch has "fixed de roads" and turns up at every funeral in the constituency.

Until we decouple parish politics from the Dail we were keep having these issues. Rinse Repeat, Rinse Repeat ad nausum !!

Godge

This thread might be prophetic come the 10 March election of a Taoiseach when people will be looking at one another and asking is this what we voted for?

Mr.Micro

It seems to me that people appear to be about to vote for bits that they want, not the big picture. They appear to want to throw away the little bit of recovery and security that we may have, all perhaps because they are upset with water charges or some other matter, all the while missing the big picture.

Idbatterim

It seems to me that people appear to be about to vote for bits that they want, not the big picture. They appear to want to throw away the little bit of recovery and security that we may have, all perhaps because they are upset with water charges or some other matter, all the while missing the big picture.

I totally agree again, this stuff is small fry / an irrelevance in the scheme of things! The same with the motor tax discussion. Why doesnt the major talking involve the major issues? the 20,000,000,000 welfare state, the insane amount of people working contributing as good as nothing in direct taxes? the extortionate marginal rate of tax?

Who should be first in line to benefit from the recovery and who shouldnt...

Centaur

Idbatterim wrote: »

But I do believel all the people who think they are being shafted, do genuinely believe they are and arent simply trying to leveryage more from the government. Pretty much most of the media and VB, is all left wing, people keep on hearing the same things being trotted out ad nauseam, they will take it for truth...

I don't think this is about left versus right, or shouldn't be anyway. It's about reality versus fantasy.

I consider myself left wing but there is such a thing as facing up to consequences.

Bring back the Troika imo.

Failing that, only one party has not decided to promise the world in order to buy votes. I disagree with many of their policies and wish that they were more honest about the costs contained within, but very impressed by them not engaging in auction politics (easier done as a small party of course).

The worst bit is that each 'auction' and 'promise' to the electorate has some basis for being useful, but they've almost all gone way over the top with them. Some tempering of the pragmatism/populism would be useful; Keep USC but do reduce marginal rates through income tax bands, don't narrow the tax base, keep water charges, increase LPT. If we want a big state, lets pay for it. If the party doesn't want a big state, outline it, explain that we can 'not spend X' if we cut that service and see if someone votes for them!

Such a sorry state of affairs that we as an electorate both bay out for, and respond to this bribery.

UnitedIrishman

I think as a nation we almost love the boom and bust cycles we get ourselves into. We're genuinely like the guy who goes on a massive session, dies of a hangover for a few days and a week later forgets about the hangover and only remembers the great night he had - blaming the dodgy pints for the pain suffered.

Whatever it is, we have it in our mindset that things are either great or terrible and that there's nothing in between. And we love being part of the collective suffering group even though in all likelihood things are perfectly fine - I've seen it in my own area. And I don't want to come across as some sort of Enda Kenny type but the amount of people that give out just to be populist or not want to be seen as doing alright is just weird. There are families genuinely struggling and my own has suffered too (pension decrease, unemployment) but resources to do with the health service etc are things I'd be more annoyed about than taxation right now.

This election just seems to be one big shouting match. I have had one person come to the door canvassing and despite them being an alright person to chat to I wouldn't be voting for them purely on their record in the Dail. With a lack of a Social Democrat candidate in the region I still feel inclined towards Fine Gael being the logical party to vote for because I think - not that they'll continue with austerity measures - but that they'll be a bit more prudent than the other parties with how they run things. Maybe Fianna Fail have changed in this regard but I'm not going to give them another chance to try and fail again.

Centaur

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

With a lack of a Social Democrat candidate in the region I still feel inclined towards Fine Gael being the logical party to vote for..

If you don’t me asking how do you gravitate to Fianna Gael from the Social Democrats? If you want to support the outgoing government why not vote for the party that is ideologically closer to them i.e. the Labour Party.

eagle eye

This looks like a not very well veiled FG/Lab supporters thread.

The government could have given some money to the people to spend and maybe create business and jobs but they didn't. They did what they have always been know to do and that is book-keeping, nothing more and nothing less. They aren't capable of leading the country forward, just keeping everything tight and none of us ordinary working people want that. We want a chance to have a bit of money to spend and enjoy our lives. We don't want to go on as we have done for the last five years which for a lot of us was not having a pot to piss in.

I am a middle-aged man with a partner and one child. The last five years have been awfully difficult for my family financially. I'm old enough to remember Bruton's government and Garret Fitzgerald's too. It was the same thing those times, very tough to live as they screwed the those on middle incomes. People are never going to want that and it's just par for the course with a FG government.

UnitedIrishman

Centaur wrote: »

If you don’t me asking how do you gravitate to Fianna Gael from the Social Democrats? If you want to support the outgoing government why not vote for the party that is ideologically closer to them i.e. the Labour Party.

There's also no Labour Party candidate in my constituency.

CageWager

Centaur wrote: »

I don't think this is about left versus right, or shouldn't be anyway. It's about reality versus fantasy.

This sums up the choice on Friday for me in a nutshell.

Nobody wants to pay for the recklessness of others (bankers/regulators/planners/politicians/individuals who borrowed beyond their means) but here we are, and FG/Lab have dealt as best they could with a bad situation.

What did people expect? After 5 years for the health service to be a world leader, a massive budget surplus and full employment? People need to get real about their expectations, no government in history has solved every problem and had 100% satisfaction - being in government is a constant work in progress. Maybe if we didn't have such a parish pump culture where local TD's have to show up to every funeral they could get some big picture strategic planning done.

For my part I'll be voting FG/Lab - not because I have any great attachment to either party but where's the alternative?

The SF/AAA brigade are have happily hoodwinked the ordinary worker and whipped him up into a frenzy by selling the seductive narrative that all your problems are someone else's fault and all your solutions are someone else's problem but that just isn't reality. It really doesn't take much prodding to find holes in their rhetoric.

Independents might be well meaning and functional in their own constituency but they will ultimately be toothless when it comes to any kind of big picture decision making or political reform.

Fianna Fail have not reformed one bit, I'm shocked that they are getting such support. I guess lifelong FF supporters who we're shamed into switching their vote in 2011 must be suffering from selective amnesia. I think independents swallowed up a lot of this FF backlash vote in 2011 and I expect them to be the big losers in a FF surge.

Enduro

eagle eye wrote: »

The government could have given some money to the people to spend and maybe create business and jobs but they didn't.

Seriously?!!! How much should the government have given you/us? Where should they get that money to give away (to 4 million people or so).

meglome

eagle eye wrote: »

This looks like a not very well veiled FG/Lab supporters thread.

There is a big difference between looking at the facts on balance and being a supporter of FG or Lab. The political discussions I've seen recently have mostly lacked any balance whatsoever.

I voted FG in the last election as least worst, not exactly a ringing endorsement. I may have to do that again, though no idea yet.

dudara

On the whole, I think this government have done an OK to decent job. It was a poisoned chalice to start and they have steered a fairly stable course, given the constraints they were under.

Personally, I want educated and articulate politicians, who are more interested in this country as a whole, rather than parish pump politics and self-promotion. Unfortunately, I think this is an impossible state in Ireland. I also wish we had an electorate who could think bigger picture on occasion.

Ah well, end of day, I'll vote with my head and social conscience. It may not align with the mood of the country, but so be it.

Centaur

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

There's also no Labour Party candidate in my constituency.

Fair enough.

Kind of surprised by that actually. I know that even in the best of times there were voting wastelands for Labour, but I always assumed there was a least 1 person running, even if they hadn't a hope.

quadrifoglio verde

eagle eye wrote: »

This looks like a not very well veiled FG/Lab supporters thread.

The government could have given some money to the people to spend and maybe create business and jobs but they didn't. They did what they have always been know to do and that is book-keeping, nothing more and nothing less. They aren't capable of leading the country forward, just keeping everything tight and none of us ordinary working people want that. We want a chance to have a bit of money to spend and enjoy our lives. We don't want to go on as we have done for the last five years which for a lot of us was not having a pot to piss in.

I am a middle-aged man with a partner and one child. The last five years have been awfully difficult for my family financially. I'm old enough to remember Bruton's government and Garret Fitzgerald's too. It was the same thing those times, very tough to live as they screwed the those on middle incomes. People are never going to want that and it's just par for the course with a FG government.

So basically you want to party then?

You do realise why things were so mundane and boring under Fitzgerald and Bruton?
The pot just wasn't empty, it was riddled with holes at the bottom as well
You can't spend money if you don't have it in the first place. You have to build an economy that is relatively stable
Then when it's stable you can increase spending.
You can't increase spending when you've not got the money. That's money tree economics

Hilden

Centaur wrote: »

Fair enough.

Kind of surprised by that actually. I know that even in the best of times there were voting wastelands for Labour, but I always assumed there was a least 1 person running, even if they hadn't a hope.

Donegal and Limerick County are two that spring to mind.

Hilden

eagle eye wrote: »

This looks like a not very well veiled FG/Lab supporters thread

I see how you could think this, some of the people here are not very complimentary of the so-called opposition here but I don't think its because they support the government. Not everyone is that black and white especially myself. Me thinking is that there is a choice between one form of celtic tigerism and another. That is one form of low-tax throwing money around like snuff at a wake and another form of the same.

I profoundly object to a cut in USC and I'm on the minimum wage! I would rather the money went to cut some ones childcare bill or get a 90 year old off a hospital trolley rather than being spent by me on a new telly,drink or fags. I'd prefer people pay property taxes so as we can have better local government services or more council housing. Look at during the boom. Tax cuts followed by tax cuts and all that happened was the cost of living and especially housing went through the roof.

I have a young family too (my sons just started school) and have struggled with unemployment. I wasn't prepared for the recession just like the government at the time and my life and self confidence took a massive hit. I realise now that it wasn't cash in my pocket that would make my life better but a better way of life. Money will only buy stuff, a temporary distraction from the daily grind. If we all contribute something (even a little) we'll get a whole lot more back.

I'm desperately trying to find some way to vote against the government but all Sinn Fein, Fianna Fail and the AAA offer is more of the same with short-termist reversals of cuts rather than real leadership and reform of our country. The government doesn't offer this either and the most depressing thing about 'keep the recovery going' is it sounds too much like 'lets keep going as it is! More of the same please'.

eagle eye

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

So basically you want to party then?

You do realise why things were so mundane and boring under Fitzgerald and Bruton?
The pot just wasn't empty, it was riddled with holes at the bottom as well
You can't spend money if you don't have it in the first place. You have to build an economy that is relatively stable
Then when it's stable you can increase spending.
You can't increase spending when you've not got the money. That's money tree economics

Party??? Where do you get off suggesting that I want to party. I don't drink, smoke or take drugs, I haven't been on a summer holiday for seven years.

I want to have the ability to save a few euro every week. I want to be able to upgrade my car to something about five years old. I'm not looking for handouts although I'd probably be better off not working and getting all the social welfare benefits this country has to offer.

We the middle earners are being treated like we are supposed to just keep our heads down and work and pay off debt for others and not think about having anything for ourselves.

FG and Lab will never take the risks necessary to give us the chance at that. They are just book-keepers who will keep things tight all the time. I don't want to live in a world like that. I'd be better off quitting my job than being stupid enough to work for probably a worse standard of living.

BoJack Horseman

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd be better off quitting my job than being stupid enough to work for probably a worse standard of living.

Do that.... by all means do.

And don't vote for FG, the party that is promising tax cuts!
Better to vote for the parties promising tax rises.

Idbatterim

What did people expect? After 5 years for the health service to be a world leader, a massive budget surplus and full employment? People need to get real about their expectations, no government in history has solved every problem and had 100% satisfaction - being in government is a constant work in progress. Maybe if we didn't have such a parish pump culture where local TD's have to show up to every funeral they could get some big picture strategic planning done.

nail on the head! what do we expect, chop and change all the time and then wonder why we are in constant turmoil? I think FG Labour did a decent job, I think FG on its own would have done a better job. BUT lets ensure FG win the most seats and now that we are emerging from the choppy waters, give them another term and lets see where we are at in 5 years, if the HSE and the usual areas are still a shambles, then we can reconsider where our vote goes next time. I was really hoping Renua woud be doing better. At this stage, either FF or SF as the main party will have us in ruins again, SF sooner rather than later...

Macy0161

Deleted User wrote: »

Bring back the Troika imo.

Failing that, only one party has not decided to promise the world in order to buy votes. I disagree with many of their policies and wish that they were more honest about the costs contained within, but very impressed by them not engaging in auction politics (easier done as a small party of course).

The social democrats are joining the auction/ populism, with proposing the scrapping Water Charges.

Hilden

eagle eye wrote: »

We the middle earners are being treated like we are supposed to just keep our heads down and work and pay off debt for others and not think about having anything for ourselves.

FG and Lab will never take the risks necessary to give us the chance at that. They are just book-keepers who will keep things tight all the time. I don't want to live in a world like that. I'd be better off quitting my job than being stupid enough to work for probably a worse standard of living.

I don't believe that you want money tree economics and a party. The frustration of many people on low to middle incomes comes from being through a time when money just appeared to come from nowhere. Every year budget surpluses just appeared in front of Fianna Fail like magic beans and they spent them on tax cuts and hand outs.

As I a low income earner I understand that every extra cent is a bill paid off early, a long-fingered job around the house done or if I'm lucky a cheeky trip down the pub. What these clowns are offering is cash, cash and more cash so as all of us can ramp up our spending. The result with inflation will be that any benefit will be wiped out in days as retailers and businesses will take their cut of your hard earned cash.

I can only tell you my experiences of what people in truly high tax countries have given me. Yes they complain about not being able to buy a new car every three years, or not being able to go on holidays when they want but if you ask them what their childcare bill is they'll say its in the 10s of Euros rather than the 1000s of Euros. If you ask them if their child will have to pay for college (if they want to go) they'll tell you no and that the state will actually lend them all of the money they need to go, so as they aren't dependants at age 18.

We are in the middle of a massive crisis but I believe that with the right leadership we can take these sorts of things for granted in future so as the stuff we can't fill our houses with will seem irrelevant. That said it takes some amount of patience!

Elemonator

I personally like to look at the stats (economics student) objectively and then draw my line. I don't think we will see many taxes disappear, if any! The country is still broke and the money is needed, at least in the eyes of someone who supports austerity. The fact of the matter is the political parties are using our own psychology against us.

Idbatterim

The social democrats are joining the auction/ populism, with proposing the scrapping Water Charges.

one of the main reasons I wouldnt vote for them. The anti water brigade, no doubt they have no problem with water charges being scrapped and USC staying. This is exactly why I agree with water charges, spread the taxation burden. Its unacceptable for it being massively picked up by the working people of Ireland, through their hard work, so that those getting the money for free on the back of others hard work, can bitch and moan about paying the water charges, with the free money they get every week.

Its time the working men and women of Ireland stood shoulder to shoulder. Public and private sector and ended this, when we have the money, everyone waster and worker is going to benefit equally when we divide up the pie :mad::rolleyes:

mahoganygas

It's looking very likely that we will be facing a hung Dail.

I fear that parties will panic and auction politics will reach hysteria levels in general election 2.0.

Hilden

Elemonator wrote: »

I don't think we will see many taxes disappear, if any! The country is still broke and the money is needed, at least in the eyes of someone who supports austerity

The A word is one that drives me mad. Let's look at the obvious here. As my dad says it's not the 1950's, if you want austerity look to a time when we were politically and economically isolated. Right now we do have emigration but after migration (including returning emigrants) is taken into account we are probably closer to a net gain in population. So if it is all so austere why are people moving here. Why, if you go into a smiths Toys at Christmas are you mobbed as if there is a shortage of plastic junk to buy from China?
Go to continental Europe and you'll see countries, who have funded our bailout by lending us billions to keep our economy going and you'll see countries who have had property taxes for decades. Where they pay so much social insurance they can actually fund their benefit systems without nicking money from other departments to pay for it. We are still one of the richest countries in the world and it's the inequality inherent in neo-liberal economics, which we've swallowed hook line and sinker, that have led to this country feeling austere rather than people not having money.

eagle eye

Hilden wrote: »

The A word is one that drives me mad. Let's look at the obvious here. As my dad says it's not the 1950's, if you want austerity look to a time when we were politically and economically isolated. Right now we do have emigration but after migration (including returning emigrants) is taken into account we are probably closer to a net gain in population. So if it is all so austere why are people moving here. Why, if you go into a smiths Toys at Christmas are you mobbed as if there is a shortage of plastic junk to buy from China?
Go to continental Europe and you'll see countries, who have funded our bailout by lending us billions to keep our economy going and you'll see countries who have had property taxes for decades. Where they pay so much social insurance they can actually fund their benefit systems without nicking money from other departments to pay for it. We are still one of the richest countries in the world and it's the inequality inherent in neo-liberal economics, which we've swallowed hook line and sinker, that have led to this country feeling austere rather than people not having money.

The wrong type of people move here because of our social welfare system.

Irish people move back here because they want to be at home and around their families and life long friends.

Hilden

eagle eye wrote: »

The wrong type of people move here because of our social welfare system

What do you mean by the wrong type? Do you mean the doctors trained in the Indian/Pakistani education systems, the IT specialists who decided to concentrate on maths and science in school or maybe the lads who change our bins or clean our floors because these jobs were too messy for us during the boom. If there were more of these 'wrong type of people' here maybe we wouldn't have such a massive welfare bill in the first place.

Charles Babbage

Idbatterim wrote: »

nail on the head, I have said the same myself on this forum recently. Insane amounts were borrowed so that we wouldnt have to suffer a servere shock to living standards, which were extremely high during the boom and actually unsustainable. Welfare, PS pay and pensions, all of it was based on unsustainable ridiculous growth rates, when these collapsed, the rates of welfare, PS pay etc, only dropped marginally.

One reason we get what we deserve is the fact free nature of the discussion. Untruths like "PS pay wasn't cut much" or "well paid people don't pay much tax" are perpetuated continually without any reference to any data whatsoever.

Until people take an interest in facts, rather than a representation that suits their argument, things are not going to improve much.

Centaur

Idbatterim wrote: »

I think FG on its own would have done a better job.

Thank you for saying that, because the subtext is that the medicine doled out would have been harsher if Labour weren’t there. It shows that they did have an influence.

Even Leo agrees with me.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/leo-varadkar-says-government-stronger-with-labour-involved-1.2112684

In his speech to the party’s national conference in Castlebar, Co Mayo, Mr Varadkar said Labour: “ have helped to give greater prominence to issues of equality, which is important to many of us here, and to society at large. They have brought alternative perspectives to the table on the social impact of economic policies.
“...Others left Fine Gael when decisions had to be made. Labour stuck with it through thick and thin. I am proud to serve with Labour in Government. Ireland is a better place because they are in coalition with Fine Gael.”

Other parties and individuals of the left just carp from the sidelines about how bad things are. At least Labour work at the coalface to try and make a difference, despite the fact that the electorate always punishes them for it.

Stinicker

Ireland will need a second bailout before December if Fianna Fail have any say in the makeup of the next Government. I hope that peoples savings are expropriated this time like in Cyprus, people will really need to get some real misery and hardship forced upon them before they wake up and see how corrupt and see the real type of traitors Fianna Fail are.

Sand

I think I will enjoy the next few weeks of hyperbole from FG and Labour.

“This has to be discussed and this has to be sorted out because we can’t keep going on like this. There is no point in recovery in the economy if people can’t trust us.”

Unnamed FG TD speaking about the John McNulty scandal in 2014

They do indeed get what they deserve.