Advice needed about salary

LegacyUser

Hi all

going anon for this one if that's ok! Just hoping to get some advice.

While chatting to a colleague it emerged that we are on different salaries but doing the same job. I'm working here longer than him by 2 years and he earns about 2k more than me it turns out.

I have not received a pay rise since joining the company 8 years ago, and my salary was cut during the recession. I want to ask for one this year and I know in advance they'll try and say that it's not a possibility. How can I raise the fact that I know what my colleague is earning without directly saying so? I don't want my manager to know that we had the discussion in the first place as I'm sure he was probably told not to mention it to me etc.

Any advice on how to approach this would be greatly appreciated.

Stheno

I'd not mention it to be honest, firstly you don't know if your colleague was telling the truth, and secondly you may find that you no longer have a friendly colleague if you land them in hot water.

Find a way to make your case for a payrise through some other means.

the_syco

workanon123 wrote: »

While chatting to a colleague it emerged that we are on different salaries but doing the same job. I'm working here longer than him by 2 years and he earns about 2k more than me it turns out.

Do you have the same qualifications? Perhaps he has a better, and/or more relevant degree than you do, and his pay reflects this.

If you want a pay rise, list how you have benefited the company, imo.

BailMeOut

It is possible your colleague asked for a pay raise and got one or negotiated a better salary when he started.

There is nothing wrong with asking for a pay raise, just be prepared to explain why you believe you deserve one (....which should have nothing to do with what your colleague earns).

_Brian

There's no basis for the two of you to be on the same wage. It's not a requirement at all.

You should make your own case based on your performance and worth to the company.

As a manager I never entertain conversations that involve other employees salary or similar personal information.

LegacyUser

Hi all

thanks for your replies!

I just want to explain that the reason I don't want to bring up our conversation is exactly so that I don't land him in any sort of hot water or have any effect on him at all - I don't mean to question that he doesn't deserve to earn what he does and yes he probably negotiated himself a deal where I did not and well done him, I'm not trying to take away what he is getting.

However I have to be honest it does irritate me that he was obviously told one thing and I was told the other and that's really where my problem is, not what he is earning.

How can I argue my own point when I know what they're telling me isn't the truth I think is a better way of asking the question? Is it a case of accepting ok well maybe he is just worth more than me and that's that? I just feel it's very unfair and frustrating that I can't use the argument - well we do the same job, we're better at different things in our own way (which is why we're a good team) but he's no more valuable than I and vice versa.

Damnyou

If the new person is even on 20k more than you then it's still none of your business really and people have to stop thinking like companies owe them something. Your just a spoke on a wheel, the company will stay going with or without my you. If you don't like your salary discuss with your manager, if they don't budge either stay put or move on where there's more money. A job is a job, not your friend and don't owe you anything.

Stheno

workanon123 wrote: »

How can I argue my own point when I know what they're telling me isn't the truth I think is a better way of asking the question? Is it a case of accepting ok well maybe he is just worth more than me and that's that? I just feel it's very unfair and frustrating that I can't use the argument - well we do the same job, we're better at different things in our own way (which is why we're a good team) but he's no more valuable than I and vice versa.

Unless he shows you his payslips you don't know that he's paid more, he may well be winding you up.

Honestly, start looking at those areas you say you are better than him in the job and use that as a rationale for seeking a payrise.

Squall Leonhart

I know for a fact I've worked in places where I have earned more than colleagues with either equal or greater experience/qualifications. Your salary is between you and your employer. I know I got paid better because I am a better negotiater and less willing to take whatever initial number is thrown out if I feel it isn't enough. I am confident in my abilities, or at least can convey a sense of confidence when it's needed
Could well be the case that colleagues in my current workplace get paid more than me for doing the same work. That's their business!

If the new guy is earning more than you for doing the same work, it's because they played some hardball with their employer. Good for them!

LegacyUser

I'm in the exact opposite position with myself and a colleague. I'm earning about 2k+ more than she is despite her being in the job over a year longer than me. We have identical experience and qualifications and work as a team. Over the course of chatting about work and money (in a general work colleague way, no specifics although she once let slip her salary) it became clear that in the time she's been here (3 years) she's never asked for a raise, and in her initial negotiations gratefully took the first offer from the boss. Contrast that to me: I've asked for more money three times between initial negotiations and annual reviews. I still feel significantly underpaid and I feel awful for my colleague on her terrible salary. It doesn't take a genius to see that most bosses won't just hand over extra money to staff out of the goodness of their hearts.

BreadnBuddha

Anonobot wrote: »

I'm in the exact opposite position with myself and a colleague. I'm earning about 2k+ more than she is despite her being in the job over a year longer than me. We have identical experience and qualifications and work as a team. Over the course of chatting about work and money (in a general work colleague way, no specifics although she once let slip her salary) it became clear that in the time she's been here (3 years) she's never asked for a raise, and in her initial negotiations gratefully took the first offer from the boss. Contrast that to me: I've asked for more money three times between initial negotiations and annual reviews. I still feel significantly underpaid and I feel awful for my colleague on her terrible salary. It doesn't take a genius to see that most bosses won't just hand over extra money to staff out of the goodness of their hearts.

That's her fault and her problem. You are paid more because you negotiated better, something that inherently makes an employee more valuable in many roles.

I've been paid over 50% more than *some* of my colleagues in past roles. The fact they wouldn't negotiate better when they were being hired or when they gained additional certificates/skills which were of value to the company was entirely their fault.

Discretion on your part in not disclosing your own salary, a private matter in any case, leaves more in the budget to meet your own requests for better pay. Keep doing so.

BreadnBuddha

workanon123 wrote: »

Hi all

thanks for your replies!

I just want to explain that the reason I don't want to bring up our conversation is exactly so that I don't land him in any sort of hot water or have any effect on him at all - I don't mean to question that he doesn't deserve to earn what he does and yes he probably negotiated himself a deal where I did not and well done him, I'm not trying to take away what he is getting.

However I have to be honest it does irritate me that he was obviously told one thing and I was told the other and that's really where my problem is, not what he is earning.

How can I argue my own point when I know what they're telling me isn't the truth I think is a better way of asking the question? Is it a case of accepting ok well maybe he is just worth more than me and that's that? I just feel it's very unfair and frustrating that I can't use the argument - well we do the same job, we're better at different things in our own way (which is why we're a good team) but he's no more valuable than I and vice versa.

You certainly don't need to accept he's worth more than you are. You must however be able to assess your worth to the business, on their terms.

Identify what you actually do for the business. List everything out on paper. Then assign a value. Decide what is essential, of supplemental value and of little value.

Make sure you're doing the first two and avoiding doing things in the latter category. Even if those things of little value need to be done, don't be the one who does them.

I know this sounds heartless and some people here will balk at the idea but if you want to be paid better than other people the very first thing you must do is BE more valuable.

When you can SHOW this, when you are SEEN to be doing valuable work in the context of your team, then you have grounds to ask for something more than what you get paid today.

The other essential thing to do is tie your activity to the financial performance of the company, even if your manager doesn't explicitly do this today. If you can eliminate waste, reduce a cost, increase output or remove a source of complaint either from other departments or customers, try to understand what effect this has on the companies cost base and profitability.

It's not rocket science. It's a simple shift in your thinking when you look at your job and the reason you have it in the first place. Do it gradually and if you think it will be helpful to you (and believe me, it very often is), identify something you think you can improve upon and ask your manager to approve or support you trying to make that positive change.

People do good jobs day in and day out. Brilliant. Everyone does okay and things just move along nicely. If you're lucky. Somewhere higher up the pecking order (sorry, I know this is going to annoy some) there are people who think day in and day out about the financials in the business.

When somebody who actually KNOWS the business functions inside and out starts to show they're able to raise their focus above that role, those people higher up in management WILL take note. The thing to watch out for is that YOU must make yourself visible as being an instigator of improvements. Your manager needs to know what you're helping with and just as importantly, THEIR manager needs to know it too.

Tie the activity to the money and you make it easy to justify a request for better pay, education funding, increased benefits or perks and so on. With your manager having supported what you're doing and the gains being visible, both of you will ultimately be able to benefit.

That might not appeal to you. It WILL get some peoples backs up because they think everyone should be treated fairly. That's all well and good, but it's not the real world and it's not how businesses work with lots of employees muddying the waters for each other. You have to stand out a bit, for the right reasons.

When it comes to the issue with you feeling you're being lied to, well, that's only your problem really. Collective bargaining isn't at play here, so they'll tell you what they need to tell you in relation to your personal arrangements with them and everything else is none of your business really. Put that aside and you can start to improve your situation by exploiting this very fact. In future, keep your mind 100% on your own arrangements, your own value to them as a business and just accept that everyone else has the same opportunity if they want it.

vetinari

I'd take a different tack to the other posters here.
Long term, it can kill a team morale if people know that others earn more than them for the same work.
There's a reason that employers don't want employees to discuss their salaries.

Personally, I think employers need to be careful not to have big differences in salary for the same level.
It'll cause resentment and encourage any underpaid employee who is talented to leave.

livedadream

workanon123 wrote: »

Hi all

going anon for this one if that's ok! Just hoping to get some advice.

While chatting to a colleague it emerged that we are on different salaries but doing the same job. I'm working here longer than him by 2 years and he earns about 2k more than me it turns out.

I have not received a pay rise since joining the company 8 years ago, and my salary was cut during the recession. I want to ask for one this year and I know in advance they'll try and say that it's not a possibility. How can I raise the fact that I know what my colleague is earning without directly saying so? I don't want my manager to know that we had the discussion in the first place as I'm sure he was probably told not to mention it to me etc.

Any advice on how to approach this would be greatly appreciated.

A dumb priest never got a parish.

BUT dont even try to bring up what you colleague is earning.

Ask for a meeting. bring back up tangible documentation proving your worth to the company, ask for a raise, if they low ball you or say no, say its my understanding that my current salary is not reflective of my skills, experience or worth.
I would like you to review it please. Meeting over ask for another meeting in a week or so.. so they can think about it, they will go back look at the salaries and your worth.

See what they offer if they offer nothing get out, they dont value you. the recession is over lads if a company isn't paying you what your worth and you care about money leave get a new job where they will.


I'm paid more than 2 of my colleagues because I asked for a raise twice last year I worked on three huge projects and during the feedback sessions with my CEO i said i'm glad you appreciate my role and the value ive added, id like to discuss my options. He came back to me within a weekish and i ended with a raise.

ZeroThreat

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