Can polling cards be misused? And what then?

NiallBoo

I haven't got my polling card.

I'm not worried about this. I'm on the register and fully presume that not getting one is a simple error and there's nothing under-hand about it.

But I couldn't help wondering (an admittedly unlikely) "what if?.."

If it had been lost/stolen, is the system robust enough to stop someone else using it? and where would that leave me?

If someone turned up and tried to use it then they'd either get asked for ID and just be able to say "I'll come back with it later" and walk off or they wouldn't and they'd be able to vote.
Not a great outcome either way.

And if they were successful and cast my vote before I got to the polling-station?
Would I still be able to vote?
Is there any way of catching someone who commits this fraud?
Would the authorities even bother?

All very theoretical stuff mind, but have scenarios like this actually happened? And if so, what was done about it?

Vote early, vote often etc. etc.

tuisginideach

A polling card has no legal status in terms of casting your vote - it is simply a way of informing you where to vote.

Voters should be asked for ID to ensure no-one else gets to vote in your name.

I acted as polling clerk on a number of occasions many moons ago and I'm sure there was a way of allowing you to vote even if someone has used your name & vote illegally - the Presiding Officer has to satisfy himself/herself that you are the 'real' elector etc -(see below)

PS aren't the party's agents who are allowed sit near the Presiding Officer/polling clerk's desk called 'Impersonation officers' - they are supposed to be looking out for impersonators (on behalf of their party only, not on behalf of the State).

Found reference to this law elsewhere on boards (from 2011)
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1992/act/23/section/104/enacted/en/html#sec104

sKeith

I have in the past, arrived at polling station without my poll card and successfully cast a vote without being asked for any ID.

noby

sKeith wrote: »

I have in the past, arrived at polling station without my poll card and successfully cast a vote without being asked for any ID.

So have I. Quite regularly. But I'm living in a msall community.

OP, mine arrived today, so there's time yet.

gandalf

My card arrived last week along with two in the name of the previous owners. I have informed the council after the previous two elections that these people are no longer at the address yet they are kept on the electoral register?

Orion

sKeith wrote: »

I have in the past, arrived at polling station without my poll card and successfully cast a vote without being asked for any ID.

I've never been asked for ID but again I'm in a small town. Our cards only arrived today. There was a short lead in to this election. If it doesn't arrive don't worry - just head up and vote anyway - it's only an information card not ID.

Orion

gandalf wrote: »

My card arrived last week along with two in the name of the previous owners. I have informed the council after the previous two elections that these people are no longer at the address yet they are kept on the electoral register?

That's probably because they didn't re-register at their new address. Or else they went on to the supplementary register. It's a flaw in the system that people who leave it to the last minute to change address still get the card at their old address. The register is seriously overstated as a result. The vast majority of these cards are just unused but there will always be some who abuse it. just bin the cards and all is good.

uck51js9zml2yt

You can still vote and a note is made by the presiding officer to that effect.

Sala

I didn't get a polling card nor did my husband. I registered both of us for the marriage referendum and got them then - we are both on checktheregister, status presidential. I assume this is enough? Will my passport be sufficient to allow me to vote? I can't seem to find a bill in my name for proof of address

Edit - probably a stupid question that I should know, but can anyone link me to an up to date constituency map?? I have only voted at this address once in the marriage referendum (so it didn't really matter what constituency I was in) but I recall trying to figure where I should register as I found a map and and my home was right beside the border of two constituencies. I understand they redraw the boundaries sometimes and I understand the constituency is printed on the polling card (which I didn't get).

maxwell smart

Got mine today as did Mrs.Smart.

Mrs. Smart was previously Ms.Blonde and for the 15 years since she has moved out of her parents house and changed her name a voting card in the name of Ms.Blonde arrived at her parents house at every vote.

So after the last vote (local elections maybe?) she informed the people in the local council office who told her that was grand.

So today in the post in our own home we got voting cards for:

Mr.Smart
Mrs.Smart
Ms.Blonde (first time to our own house)

and to be sure to be sure, also arriving at her parents house:

Voting card for Ms.Smart!!

Unbelievable, the register must be seriously screwed up

uck51js9zml2yt

Sala wrote: »

I didn't get a polling card nor did my husband. I registered both of us for the marriage referendum and got them then - we are both on checktheregister, status presidential. I assume this is enough? Will my passport be sufficient to allow me to vote? I can't seem to find a bill in my name for proof of address

Edit - probably a stupid question that I should know, but can anyone link me to an up to date constituency map?? I have only voted at this address once in the marriage referendum (so it didn't really matter what constituency I was in) but I recall trying to figure where I should register as I found a map and and my home was right beside the border of two constituencies. I understand they redraw the boundaries sometimes and I understand the constituency is printed on the polling card (which I didn't get).

Passport is enough . ask your neighbour if they got a card and what it says.

allthedoyles

My OH is on the register twice and in different constituencies. -

oscarBravo

maxwell smart wrote: »

Unbelievable, the register must be seriously screwed up

Always has been, always will until its entire structure is overhauled.

As a software developer and erstwhile systems analyst (showing my age), it's pretty obvious what the problem is: there's no unique identifier for a voter. Until we use something like PPS numbers as a database key, it's logically impossible to have a well-organised electoral register.

I was thinking about this during the week, trying to come up with a reason why a PPSN would be an unsuitable identifier for voters, and couldn't immediately think of one. Any thoughts?

gandalf

oscarBravo wrote: »

Always has been, always will until its entire structure is overhauled.

As a software developer and erstwhile systems analyst (showing my age), it's pretty obvious what the problem is: there's no unique identifier for a voter. Until we use something like PPS numbers as a database key, it's logically impossible to have a well-organised electoral register.

I was thinking about this during the week, trying to come up with a reason why a PPSN would be an unsuitable identifier for voters, and couldn't immediately think of one. Any thoughts?

Yep I have thought that having to register to vote is a shambles when there already is a common unique identifier in place that every Irish Citizen has which is the PPSN.

If you have a PPSN and you are over 18 you should be added automatically to the register. They shouldn't need to issue polling cards anymore either.

CageWager

I've received two polling cards, one for my constituency and one arrived at my parents house where I originally registered to vote. Clearly we're still in the dark ages when it comes to stuff like this, when you register in a new constituency nobody thinks about striking you off your previous one.

Oh well, off to vote early and often I suppose.

uck51js9zml2yt

Its up to the voter to inform their area office that they have moved and re-registered in another area.
There may also be the case where the list is printed and then a supplemental where the person is on both.
Happens were a person becomes a Irish citizen after the main list is printed.

Godge

This came up in the Cafe as well. I posted this about previous examples:

"It has allegedly happened before:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/haugh...-dies-1.145083


"Mr O'Connor and his daughter, Niamh, faced allegations in 1982 that they had voted twice in the February general election in the Dublin North constituency. The summonses alleged that, having voted at Malahide polling station, they applied for ballot papers at another polling station in Kinsealy."

Not just down here:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0801/465...tish-archives/

"Cabinet documents dating from July 1983, the month after a general election in Britain, disclose that the British government believed 25% of Sinn Féin’s vote had been garnered through “intimidation” and “personation”."


There have been regular fears expressed about it:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-26052218.html


"Normally they must confirm the identity, through "acceptable identification," of just 5pc of intending voters but this has been raised by 500pc, with all the main parties fearing SF fraud."

"Candidates from Fianna Fail and Fine Gael claim SF canvassers are preparing for personation, with supporters of Gerry Adams' party allegedly calling to doors and attempting to establish if residents have any intention of voting.
The big parties fear SF will use this information to try and gain votes by sending in their own people to take the place of non-voters.""

uck51js9zml2yt

A minimum of 1 in 4 ID's must be checked by poll staff.

View

There is a fairly simple solution to the voter registration issue, namely, have the register post out a form with your voter registration details to you once every year or so. You then have a month or so to check/correct them and return the signed form to the registrar, otherwise you automatically lose your vote and would need to re-register in person at a council office or Garda station to get it again. Given the lamentable state of the current registers there is very ground for complaint if the process of verifying your registration details proves too much for you.

uck51js9zml2yt

View wrote: »

There is a fairly simple solution to the voter registration issue, namely, have the register post out a form with your voter registration details to you once every year or so. You then have a month or so to check/correct them and return the signed form to the registrar, otherwise you automatically lose your vote and would need to re-register in person at a council office or Garda station to get it again. Given the lamentable state of the current registers there is very ground for complaint if the process of verifying your registration details proves too much for you.

Its up to the voter to ensure they are registered correctly, not the state( though it would make sense if it was)

Sparko

For a couple of years my mother got two polling cards, both delivered to the same address, no distinguishing features on either (in terms of name, address etc). At the polling station, her name was listed twice on the sheets that they mark when you attend to vote. She told them every time she voted, and also told the people who call to the house to update the register. Eventually her duplicate disappeared.

It goes to show how archaic the register is, a simple excel check would flag a duplicate of this nature!

doolox

I remember once when I spent three months abroad at work and returned to find my vote was stricken off the register. I originally came from a staunch FF area and any one of other persuasion could easily lose their vote if they were in anyway mobile in their work habits.

I have had to keep checking and reapplying for inclusion on the register when i lived at my first address.

I moved to another area of the country where a Co Council official would call every year to keep the register up to date.

I moved to my present address 17 yrs ago and both party officials and Co Council officials call at regular intervals to confirm the correct number of voters etc.

It appears that anyone can apply for deletions to the register at any time and it is up to the elector to ensure that their name is kept on the register just before an impending election. I have also learned to keep my political affiliations etc to myself to avoid malicious deletions.

uck51js9zml2yt

Sparko wrote: »

For a couple of years my mother got two polling cards, both delivered to the same address, no distinguishing features on either (in terms of name, address etc). At the polling station, her name was listed twice on the sheets that they mark when you attend to vote. She told them every time she voted, and also told the people who call to the house to update the register. Eventually her duplicate disappeared.

It goes to show how archaic the register is, a simple excel check would flag a duplicate of this nature!

You omit the possibility of 2 people of the same name living in the same house.
Parent/ child being the most common.
Delete one and they are disenfranchised.

Sparko

Rhea Whispering Reggae wrote: »

You omit the possibility of 2 people of the same name living in the same house.
Parent/ child being the most common.
Delete one and they are disenfranchised.

I'm not saying delete it without question but a decent flag to query it further.

And don't take years to resolve it despite being told multiple times.