Anti Cycling Legislators in Aus hit a new low.

magicbastarder

stoneill wrote: »

The NSW rules are not draconian - very similar to our rules, except perhaps the manditory wearing of bicycle helmets which has been suggested here from time to time.

and the no more than 1.5m gap; and the mandatory use of bike lanes; and the 'not sit astride bicycle seat' law; and 'bicycle not to ride left of oncoming bicycle', etc.
and the fact that the fine is significant for each of these.

rubadub

magicbastarder wrote: »

we don't have the crime of jaywalking as many people understand it though - i.e. it's not illegal to cross a road, unless you're within i think 10m of a red pedestrian light.

it is 15m, and that is exactly the "jaywalking" law I was talking about. I see people do it dangerously right in front of gardai and nothing is done.

Can you explain what you think the "crime of jaywalking" is -as "many people understand it"? because I think you will be on your own.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking

Jaywalking occurs when a pedestrian crosses a roadway where regulations do not permit doing so.

magicbastarder

rubadub wrote: »

Can you explain what you think the "crime of jaywalking" is -as "many people understand it"? because I think you will be on your own.

recent chat with my colleagues, most of whom thought that where a pedestrian light was provided on a road, you *have* to cross at that pedestrian light. i.e. they thought you would be breaking the law if you attempted to cross 100m down from it.
seems to be a common misconception, but i'm happy to be on my own if needs be.

rubadub

magicbastarder wrote: »

recent chat with my colleagues, most of whom thought that where a pedestrian light was provided on a road, you *have* to cross at that pedestrian light.

I think the better phrase would have been "we don't have the crime of jaywalking as morons understand it though"

Sure there would be loads of roads many miles long with one crossing at the very tail end.

tomasrojo

"Jaywalking" has an interesting provenance:

In the early 20th Century, “jay” was a derogatory term for someone from the countryside. Therefore, a “jaywalker” is someone who walks around the city like a jay, gawking at all the big buildings, and who is oblivious to traffic around him. The term was originally used to disparage those who got in the way of other pedestrians, but Motordom rebranded it as a legal term to mean someone who crossed the street at the wrong place or time.

http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/episode-76-the-modern-moloch/

There is no legal term "jaywalking" here, and you can cross wherever you like, provided it isn't within 15m (or something like that) of an official pedestrian crossing. I guess the latter could be described as our version of jaywalking.

Cabaal

tomasrojo wrote: »

"Jaywalking" has an interesting provenance:


http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/episode-76-the-modern-moloch/

There is no legal term "jaywalking" here, and you can cross wherever you like, provided it isn't within 15m (or something like that) of an official pedestrian crossing. I guess the latter could be described as our version of jaywalking.

Crazy when you learn about where the term came from,
Imagine if we had a law on the book called mucker walker, mucksavage walking or some other insulting term to country people.

How it ended up being a legal term in the USA is beyond me, suppose we should be thankful they didn't call it n***er walking in the USA, especially given the view towards black people at the time

Crazy, just crazy

rubadub

tomasrojo wrote: »

There is no legal term "jaywalking" here

Cabaal wrote: »

Imagine if we had a law on the book

I am not sure if the term is used in the books in the US, or anywhere for that matter. I always took it to be slang, I would not expect the word pickpocket or mugged to be said in laws either, but there would be laws about them. If it was mentioned I would expect it to be in quotes or italics to show its a slang/colloquial term.

Classic Jaywalking: If you are between two adjacent intersections that are both controlled by "traffic control signal devices" (i.e. a traffic light), then you, the pedestrian, must cross at the intersection. See California Vehicle Code §21955.

that vehicle code is here with no mention of jaywalking
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&group=21001-22000&file=21949-21971

tomasrojo

Off-topic, but that business about the Great Barrier Reef is mentioned here:

Every reference to Australia was scrubbed from the final version of a major UN report on climate change after the Australian government intervened, objecting that the information could harm tourism.

Guardian Australia can reveal the report “World Heritage and Tourism in a Changing Climate”, which Unesco jointly published with the United Nations environment program and the Union of Concerned Scientists on Friday, initially had a key chapter on the Great Barrier Reef, as well as small sections on Kakadu and the Tasmanian forests.

The news comes less than a year after the Australian government successfully lobbied Unesco to not list the Great Barrier Reef in its list of “World Heritage Sites in Danger”.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/27/australia-scrubbed-from-un-climate-change-report-after-government-intervention

Anyway, I don't want to be bashing Australia about everything. As I said, I've never been there. But at official levels, they have some troubling tendencies.

Roadhawk

tomasrojo wrote: »

Off-topic, but that business about the Great Barrier Reef is mentioned here:



http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/27/australia-scrubbed-from-un-climate-change-report-after-government-intervention

Anyway, I don't want to be bashing Australia about everything. As I said, I've never been there. But at official levels, they have some troubling tendencies.

Well that is were we used to send our convicts.

magicbastarder

even the wildlife is at it now.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/may/30/kangaroo-attacks-injures-cyclists-south-australia

Tenzor07

magicbastarder wrote: »

even the wildlife is at it now.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/may/30/kangaroo-attacks-injures-cyclists-south-australia

Everyone should have "airbags" whilst cycling!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3615879/Kangaroo-attacks-two-female-cyclists-leaving-one-broken-ribs-concussed-South-Australia.html

tomasrojo

Australia continues to live up to its well-earned reputation as the worst country on the planet for cyclists

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.ie/2016/06/im-going-places-soon-literally-not.html

Man threatens cyclist with knife (while wearing flip-flops).

perhaps most disturbing of all, according to the video description this swashbuckling Parrothead--who threatened to knife someone for merely existing--was only fined $1,500.

That's only about three and a half times more than the fine in New South Wales for cycling without a helmet.

Good to see they've got things in perspective down there.

Mario Speedwagon

I'm Australian and recently went home for a 2 week visit - I didn't cycle but in general there are rules for EVERYTHING now, it's quite the Nanny State.

I like living here (especially when the weather's like this, LOL), being able to make my own decisions & live-and-let-live.

tomasrojo

How do you find Australia for cycling generally? Is the picture we get here overly negative?

catbear

tomasrojo wrote: »

How do you find Australia for cycling generally? Is the picture we get here overly negative?

In Perth there were some great cycle lanes but it be could patchy coverage. It was the attitudes that sucked. I gave up the commuting by bicycle as it was too dangerous, a lot of cyclists used their commute as a velodrome competition, pileups were common.

I felt safer in ireland sharing the road with cars as at least everyone is trying to just get somewhere as opposed to the aggressive competitive attitudes of Australian drivers and cyclists. They can be as bad as each other.

Canis Lupus

tomasrojo wrote: »

How do you find Australia for cycling generally? Is the picture we get here overly negative?

Here is Brisbane, in my opinion, there isn't the level of cyclist commuters that you'd find in London or Dublin. I was cycle commuting for a while (until I got lazy and bought a motorbike) and I found the roads much more difficult to cycle as they don't have the same level of cycle lanes or in particular dedicated bus lanes and they have a reasonably high number of fast moving multiple lane roads which makes turning an interesting challenge.

On the somewhat interesting flipside I see a LOT of group cycling with a surprisingly high number of female cyclists in the groups as well. On some occasions I see all female 'peletons' which is something I don't think I ever saw in London/Dublin. Brissy does happen to be a reasonably hilly place which probably makes club riding popular but commuting not so much.

Finally, Brissy really isn't the best for cycle commuting simply due to the climate. The temp and humidity during summer is RIDICULOUS and there's no such thing as a cold shower as even the cold water just runs hot


As for rules, regulations and policing.... cyclists break lights just like they do everywhere, they can legally cycle on footpaths so that's a non issue. I did once see a news report however where the police were speed checking cyclists in a shared pedestrian zone not that I ever such a thing in real life.

tomasrojo

Thanks. Both set of observations seem to tie in with what I've read: recreational cycling is doing ok-ish, but utility cycling is unpleasant and not common. The higher levels of aggression displayed by cyclists is sometimes attributed to the disappearance of the utility cyclist, as the perception of cycling as very risky (whether real or a perception, abetted by helmet laws and helmet campaigns, or both) leaves you with mostly risk-takers (e.g. young, male, competitive around Strava segments, that kind of thing).

tomasrojo

Australian Capital Territory makes it illegal to throw stuff out of cars at cyclists.

http://www.citylab.com/crime/2016/06/bike-laws-canberra-australia/488180/?utm_source=SFTwitter

Apparently it's a very common practice, and so is striking cyclists across the backside while driving past.

That reminds me that nobody has thrown anything out of a car at me for a few years now. It used to happen several times a year. Might be because I moved house a few years ago. Or maybe the increase in the number of cyclists has brought down the probability of me being targeted.

rubadub

tomasrojo wrote: »

Australian Capital Territory makes it illegal to throw stuff out of cars at cyclists.

http://www.citylab.com/crime/2016/06/bike-laws-canberra-australia/488180/?utm_source=SFTwitter

I find it hard to believe there was no law already in place which would not cover this already. I wonder if it is still legal to throw bricks at pedestrians, because reading that article it sounds like that might be the case, but I very much doubt it.

It sort of smacks of makeyup laws or campaigns to rehighlight that things which are already legal and possibly tolerated are going to be enforced properly, rather than admit they were totally lax. I remember a guy I know saying how he was going to be careful to bin his gum saying how its illegal "now", this was after seeing ads about fines for not binning gum, it was always fcuking illegal!!!

tomasrojo

Something in the Guardian today about NSW and their eye-watering fines:

a chat with Bernard Carlon, head of road safety at Transport for NSW. He’s thus a civil servant rather than a politician but he very patiently sought to answer all my questions about the state government’s approach to cycling safety.

It was, nonetheless, one of the more curious conversations of my life.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2016/jul/28/roundabout-arguments-cant-disguise-sydneys-cycling-laws-are-taking-the-public-for-a-ride

Pinch Flat

From what I read, there seems to be a special contempt towards cyclists by offialdom in Sydney. Definitely one off my bucket list for cycling.

DirkVoodoo

Definitely didn't enjoy cycling in Sydney, never felt safe and had daily incidents caused by bad driving and really poor infrastructure. The cycle lanes throughout the city were a bit of a death trap.

I don't think they have any plans to change their attitude, cyclists are seen as a pest.

I remember getting shouted at from a car for my front light being too bright "Oi mate, turn off ya f**kin' light!" as I went through Paddington.

Which is a shame, because they have fantastic weather and great scenery, if they were a bit more progressive and not so steeped in macho culture, it could be a great place to cycle!

tomasrojo

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

not so steeped in macho culture

It is strange that they have this macho reputation, but seem to think cycling along a beach front on a quiet cycle facility without a helmet will result in instant death.

Chuchote

tomasrojo wrote: »

Australian Capital Territory makes it illegal to throw stuff out of cars at cyclists.

http://www.citylab.com/crime/2016/06/bike-laws-canberra-australia/488180/?utm_source=SFTwitter

Apparently it's a very common practice, and so is striking cyclists across the backside while driving past.

That reminds me that nobody has thrown anything out of a car at me for a few years now. It used to happen several times a year. Might be because I moved house a few years ago. Or maybe the increase in the number of cyclists has brought down the probability of me being targeted.

Remember when cyclists started wearing cardboard with drawing-pins sticking out at the back to combat this? Perhaps that's what ended it?

tomasrojo wrote: »

It is strange that they have this macho reputation, but seem to think cycling along a beach front on a quiet cycle facility without a helmet will result in instant death.

Ah, but is Oz macho more about wearing a wifebeater at the barbie and necking back many beers than about actual manly pursuits?

tomasrojo

Chuchote wrote: »

Ah, but is Oz macho more about wearing a wifebeater at the barbie and necking back many beers than about actual manly pursuits?

I've never been to Australia, so I really don't know much about it.

Chuchote

tomasrojo wrote: »

I've never been to Australia, so I really don't know much about it.

Ahem. Well… yes…

catbear

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-36948337

In a video posted to Facebook, the unidentified driver cackles as he steers his truck into a water-soaked stretch of road to spray the riders.
The cyclists reported the incident to police after seeing the footage.
While many have condemned the driver, some on social media criticised the cyclists for riding on a major road.
"So, we hate pushbikes," the driver can be heard saying as he films the video.
"We're not allowed to run them over. But hey, we can [mess] with them. Let's have a crack at [messing] with them."

Do I miss australia? Not for a second. What's special about can be seen on a holiday but such levels of goonery are too common. It's a redneckistan.

magicbastarder

now they're just taking the piss in oz:
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/cyclist-suffers-horrible-burns-after-phone-explodes-in-back-pocket/

Jawgap

'stralia!!!

Australia senator Malcolm Roberts calls climate change a UN conspiracy

One of Australia's new senators has said climate change is a global conspiracy created by bankers seeking to establish a worldwide government.
Malcolm Roberts won a Queensland Senate seat as member of the anti-immigration One Nation party in recent elections.

He says the United Nations is using climate change to lay the foundations for an unelected global government.

His previous writing indicates that he believes a shadowy cabal of bankers is controlling world affairs.

One Nation is led by Pauline Hanson, who during the 1990s was a controversial figure in Australian politics for her views on immigration and Indigenous Australians.

The party won four seats in Australia's Senate during the election, making it the fourth-largest voting bloc in the upper house.

Chuchote

Jawgap wrote: »

'stralia!!!

Strewth!