Anti Cycling Legislators in Aus hit a new low.

check_six

Jawgap wrote: »

'stralia!!!

Australia senator Malcolm Roberts calls climate change a UN conspiracy

He'd feel at home with our own boyos, so! Danny Healy Rae tackles climate change

(I'm just curious, does anyone know what DHR's angle is here, normally it's far more transparent eg. run pub, want drink driving okayed for my drinkers, etc.)

Chuchote

check_six wrote: »

He'd feel at home with our own boyos, so! Danny Healy Rae tackles climate change

(I'm just curious, does anyone know what DHR's angle is here, normally it's far more transparent eg. run pub, want drink driving okayed for my drinkers, etc.)

No profit in wind farms? (Beating my familiar drum, if wind farm owners offered free electricity at normal home level for first 10 years to homes within a kilometre of a turbine, objections would magically disappear.)

magicbastarder

them intellectuals in dublin are not stealing our wind to make the electricity for their fancy macchiato coffees.

tomasrojo

On the subject of the Australian Senate, Leyonhjelm was returned. He was the most vocal senator at the anti-Nanny State committee, with a particular emphasis on helmet laws.

Not sure he can do that much, but he might get a final report of that committee out.
http://www.cycle-helmets.com/leyonhjelm-helmets.html

Jawgap

check_six wrote: »

He'd feel at home with our own boyos, so! Danny Healy Rae tackles climate change

(I'm just curious, does anyone know what DHR's angle is here, normally it's far more transparent eg. run pub, want drink driving okayed for my drinkers, etc.)

Maybe if you had an earth moving/civil engineering business you'd want people to believe that climate change was beyond humankind's control and that the only thing to do would be to build sea and flood defences

eeeee

Pointing out their ridiculousness makes them stronger...there is no hope

tomasrojo

Lastly, no cyclists in the world have had it tougher than our siblings in New South Wales, Australia. Stratospheric helmet fines, assaults, exploding smartphones... But now it seems that at long last they stricken a blow for freedom, as they have finally won the right to stand up while pedaling uphill

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.ie/2016/08/and-were-back.html

EDIT: Had a look at the original article. Remarkably, these laws also exist, though they seem to be completely unenforced:

a $298 fine in NSW for waving at a friend out of a car window, while leaving your car unlocked when you are more than three metres away from the vehicle could cost you $99.

http://www.executivestyle.com.au/common-sense-change-to-a-cycling-road-rule-gqjtgl

tomasrojo

More on NSW:
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/aug/24/sydney-australia-war-cyclists-fines?CMP=share_btn_link

AUS$531(about €360) makes that an expensive bike ride. The bell bit is especially notable. You can get fined in many jurisdictions for not having one, but not that sort of money.

As Bike Snob NYC pointed out before, these sums are comparable to the fine received by a man in Australia who threatened cyclists with a knife.

Gray insisting that this will tackle cyclist injuries may have merit; in that, if each bike trip has the potential to cost hundreds of euro, I'd do far fewer of them.

Chips Lovell

I'm always amazed at how Australia has embraced cycling as a sport but still has a thoroughly backward attitude to cycling as a mode of transport.

Anyone I know who's cycled as a commuter down under has found it a thoroughly unpleasant experience.

tomasrojo

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I'm always amazed at how Australia has embraced cycling as a sport but still has a thoroughly backward attitude to cycling as a mode of transport.

The UK is, as far as I know, a lot better than Australia in cultivating utility cycling, but they're one of the worst in Europe. And yet are a titan in competitive cycling now.

Chips Lovell

I've only got London to go on, but I found it great to be honest.

tomasrojo

Yeah, I think it's more outside London that it's regarded as unpleasant. Manchester has a bad reputation. Not NSW-style bad, naturally. I haven't cycled in either country, so what do I know.

I suppose what I was getting at was the cycling participation levels (as in everyday cycling), which are low for a Northern European country. They're fairly high in London though. Very high in some places, I think.

CramCycle

I done a few Audaxes in Wales and they were all great but then went over with a friend from there. Brought me through the Valleys and along a few A roads. I consider myself hardened but the comparison between the two experiences was incredible. Life in your hands, but very un PC like, my colleague pointed out that you could link it with very specific areas, as my mother would say, the kids don't have a hope.

I have always found London lovely to cycle in, having lived there 30years ago and visiting more recently.

tomasrojo

It's interesting to hear that you both enjoyed London so much. I've never cycled there, so the only thing I hear about it is from social media, where much of the discourse is very negative.

Social media may not be an accurate picture of the world. Well, I never.

magicbastarder

CramCycle wrote: »

Brought me through the Valleys and along a few A roads.

having driven on A roads in england, i wouldn't be in any great hurry to cycle on them.

tomasrojo

On the hair-raising A roads, I saw figures (don't know where he got them) a campaigner from Scotland had that the UK's urban back roads have about the same risk level as equivalent roads in the Netherlands (slightly better actually: 8 deaths/billion km versus 12), but that the rural main roads in the UK are up at 170 deaths/billion km.

The slightly better death rate in the UK on urban back roads may be down to there being far fewer children and old people on bikes there, but it sounds ok anyway.

Lemming

CramCycle wrote: »

I done a few Audaxes in Wales and they were all great but then went over with a friend from there. Brought me through the Valleys and along a few A roads. I consider myself hardened but the comparison between the two experiences was incredible. Life in your hands, but very un PC like, my colleague pointed out that you could link it with very specific areas, as my mother would say, the kids don't have a hope.

Speaking for what bits of South Yorkshire I've cycled around (Rotherham, Sheffield, Peak District), some of the A roads I would not cycle on. Most are fine, but there's one or two that I drive regularly enough that I just would not do them on a bike; and have only rarely witnessed cyclists braving said roads.

Sheffield is fairly bike-friendly (hardly surprising given the Peaks are next door ... ) although some of the road surfaces in general are rubbish and the cycle lanes aren't always joined up, but the council does have a working relationship with cycle-advocacy groups.

Chips Lovell

tomasrojo wrote: »

It's interesting to hear that you both enjoyed London so much. I've never cycled there, so the only thing I hear about it is from social media, where much of the discourse is very negative.

Social media may not be an accurate picture of the world. Well, I never.

Anyone who complains about cycling in London should be punished with transportation to Australia.

Jawgap

tomasrojo wrote: »

Yeah, I think it's more outside London that it's regarded as unpleasant. Manchester has a bad reputation. Not NSW-style bad, naturally. I haven't cycled in either country, so what do I know.

I suppose what I was getting at was the cycling participation levels (as in everyday cycling), which are low for a Northern European country. They're fairly high in London though. Very high in some places, I think.

I found Manchester ok to cycle around - about on a par with Dublin. London I found grand and Newcastle was great except for the hills!!!! Northern Pennines, North York Moors, the Lakes - all superb cycling country, in my experience.

I've also cycled in Bath which was my favourite spot, but in line with other people's experiences I tended to avoid the A roads, I think too many regard them as motorways and drive accordingly on them.

tomasrojo

Newcastle is a really attractive city. Spectacular. Why this isn't more widely known is beyond me. As a consumer of British media, before I went there the impression I had was that Newcastle was most notable for its weather-resistant women.

I stayed in Ascot for the best (or worst) part of a week, doing a course. I walked from my hotel to the training centre every day, because it was the summer. Took about an hour. It looked idyllic for cycling, until a car passed at eye-popping speed. Don't think they have many cyclists. No walkers either. Never met another person walking anywhere there in the semi-rural Millionaire's Row bit.

Undercover Elephant

I commuted by bike in London 20 years ago during tube strikes. It scared the bejesus out of me. Was back there a few weeks ago and astonished by the sheer number of bikes. This is probably not wholly unrelated to the £8/day congestion charge and the two grand annual Oyster cards. And for the most part, the cyclists were very happy to assert themselves on the roads, and the motorists gave them the time and space they needed. It's a huge change. Perception tends to lag if you live in it all the time.

Jawgap

tomasrojo wrote: »

Newcastle is a really attractive city. Spectacular. Why this isn't more widely known is beyond me. As a consumer of British media, before I went there the impression I had was that Newcastle was most notable for its weather-resistant women.

......

Go for the weather resistant women.....stay for the cycling:)

Did a chunk of the Hadrian's Wall cycle - a grand ol' spin! Surprised it wasn't more popular.

tomasrojo

I really liked Segedunum as well. That's a nice part of the world generally.

Chuchote

Undercover Elephant wrote: »

I commuted by bike in London 20 years ago during tube strikes. It scared the bejesus out of me. Was back there a few weeks ago and astonished by the sheer number of bikes. This is probably not wholly unrelated to the £8/day congestion charge and the two grand annual Oyster cards. And for the most part, the cyclists were very happy to assert themselves on the roads, and the motorists gave them the time and space they needed. It's a huge change. Perception tends to lag if you live in it all the time.

I think it's happened more suddenly than that, with the huge building project making protected cycle lanes all over the city, as well as the London version of Dublin Bikes.

tomasrojo

Don't think this has been posted anywhere yet.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/nov/22/fewer-people-are-cycling-in-sydney-the-nsw-government-must-be-pleased

Cycling rates, unsurprisingly, appear to have declined in NSW.

Ferrari3600

I'm not sure about other parts of the UK, but in some parts of Scotland they have single track roads (even some A-roads are single track!):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-track_road

Daunting enough for drivers not familar with them, let alone cyclists!

2 Wheels Good

Ferrari3600 wrote: »

I'm not sure about other parts of the UK, but in some parts of Scotland they have single track roads (even some A-roads are single track!):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-track_road

Daunting enough for drivers not familar with them, let alone cyclists!

So you've never cycled/driven in west Cork/Kerry?

CramCycle

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

So you've never cycled/driven in rural Ireland

FYP

Roadhawk

tomasrojo wrote: »

Don't think this has been posted anywhere yet.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/nov/22/fewer-people-are-cycling-in-sydney-the-nsw-government-must-be-pleased

Cycling rates, unsurprisingly, appear to have declined in NSW.

Clearly the raise in fines was to tackle ongoing issues and ultimately the top offenders will stop cycling for financial reasons leaving only the law abiding elite on the roads. We might see it as harsh but it one way to get s**t done.

They are equally as harsh on motorists with fines and bans.

magicbastarder

Roadhawk wrote: »

They are equally as harsh on motorists with fines and bans.

proportionally or equally?