Anti Cycling Legislators in Aus hit a new low.

DirkVoodoo

Roadhawk wrote: »

Clearly the raise in fines was to tackle ongoing issues and ultimately the top offenders will stop cycling for financial reasons leaving only the law abiding elite on the roads. We might see it as harsh but it one way to get s**t done.

They are equally as harsh on motorists with fines and bans.

Have you cycled in Australia? It's not pleasant and the attitude there is a more extreme version of what we have here, that cyclists are poor, tax avoiders and just shouldn't be on the car-roads.

I didn't get a single fine when I was there, but every day was a dance with death, and I'm not exaggerating, drivers don't really care at all that you're on a bike, they will happily cut you up, pass to close or worse.

I worked in a bike shop there, the majority of customers considered cycling "dangerous", because it was inherently so (like sky diving or scaling a skyscraper) and not because the attitude from motorists was that they could drive how they liked and if a cyclist got in the way, well they shouldn't have been there to begin with.

That's nothing to do with fines. That's a culture that's been beaten into Australians for the last 20 years. Play with your toys in designated areas and make sure you have all the necessary safety equipment.

CramCycle

Roadhawk wrote: »

They are equally as harsh on motorists with fines and bans.

This statement is unequivocally incorrect.

catbear

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

That's nothing to do with fines. That's a culture that's been beaten into Australians for the last 20 years.

I would posit that it goes back to the post war urban sprawl where once owning a car became mostly attainable using a bicycle was more a signifying of poverty and widely shunned as a sign of failure.

I really can't think why else they're so pathologically adverse to cyclists there.

Then there's the inverse position of cycling now being a rebellion thing because it's so despised.

There really isn't any middle ground, everyone is either a car nazi or a velodrome warrior mad max style, simply cycling has become a statement far removed from its most basic purpose.

Roadhawk

CramCycle wrote: »

This statement is unequivocally incorrect.

That may be your perception however their list of fines associated with motorists are in my view equally as harsh on drivers as they are on cyclists.

http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/index.cgi?fuseaction=demeritpoints.browsehandler&category=Fine+amount&offence=

PeadarCo

Roadhawk wrote:

That may be your perception however their list of fines associated with motorists are in my view equally as harsh on drivers as they are on cyclists.

That is the problem. If your interested in road safety your always going to target driver's more given cars and motor vehicles are an actual danger to other road users.

In general or at least in Ireland anyway cyclists are at worst a nuisance to other road users. Most of the danger from poor cycling impacts the actual user of the vehicle. But you already know this as myself and other posters have supplied the relevant supporting information countless times in previous posts in other threads.

CramCycle

Roadhawk wrote: »

That may be your perception however their list of fines associated with motorists are in my view equally as harsh on drivers as they are on cyclists.

http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/index.cgi?fuseaction=demeritpoints.browsehandler&category=Fine+amount&offence=

The perception is not the fine, it is the perception that they are targeting cyclists in a disproportionate manner both via targeted policing or by lack of enforcement of other relate-able or more serious road traffic infractions by other road users.

seamus

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Have you cycled in Australia? It's not pleasant and the attitude there is a more extreme version of what we have here, that cyclists are poor, tax avoiders and just shouldn't be on the car-roads.

Saw that here when I started a new job and was doing the induction bit. A woman from our Oz office was over going through the same programme. The finance people were doing their presentation and talking about the bike to work scheme.
The Aussie was stunned at the figure of €1,000. "Why would you need to spend that much on a bike?". When I asked what the process was for spending more (I threw out the figure of €2,500), her mouth literally opened. "If you had that money, why would you not just buy a car?". I explained that I already had two cars but cycling was far quicker for getting to work, and something I did as a hobby.
But she didn't get it. In her mind, bikes were cheap things that poor people bought to get around, and no sane person ever used one if they didn't have to.

I think I was as amazed as she was.

Roadhawk wrote: »

That may be your perception however their list of fines associated with motorists are in my view equally as harsh on drivers as they are on cyclists.

When the fine for not wearing a helmet is almost as much as not wearing a seatbelt, and someone without a bell can be fined as much as someone breaking the speed limit, you can't claim that the penalties are "equally harsh".

I agree that they're harsh in general, but the fines in place for two extremely inconsequential matters are bordering on draconian. €220 for not wearing a helmet. €75 for not having a bell.

tomasrojo

Speaking of proportionality in fines, bikesnobnyc wrote about an incident in Australia where a cyclist was threatened with a knife:

By the way, perhaps most disturbing of all, according to the video description this swashbuckling Parrothead--who threatened to knife someone for merely existing--was only fined $1,500.

That's only about three and a half times more than the fine in New South Wales for cycling without a helmet.

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.ie/2016/06/im-going-places-soon-literally-not.html

tomasrojo

And someone was fined the €75 fine for wheeling a bike without a bell. Wheeling it. Someone was fined for doing a track stand. Just flat-out weird policing.

tomasrojo

Roadhawk wrote: »

Clearly the raise in fines was to tackle ongoing issues and ultimately the top offenders will stop cycling for financial reasons leaving only the law abiding elite on the roads.

We will have fewer, but better Russians.

catbear

tomasrojo wrote: »

And someone was fined the €75 fine for wheeling a bike without a bell. Wheeling it. Someone was fined for doing a track stand. Just flat-out weird policing.

What's worse is I saw that happening in WA where rust bucket death traps don't have to go over the pits for an MOT as long as they keep renewing the rego on time!

The cops will only tag a car for an obvious fault but other wise the chassis could be about to disintegrate into a rust cloud but on appearance it's still considered road worthy.

This is also a state where there more houses with four registered cars than there are residences without cars!

Don't even get me started on the suburban drink driving problems where it was almost a weekly event where some V6 would end up wedged into someones house, sometimes with fatal consequences.

But oh no, walking a bicycle without a bell is a danger to the public safety!

Seriously fcuked up priorities in that carmagedom.

Glad I left that dump.

John_Rambo

PeadarCo wrote: »

That is the problem. If your interested in road safety your always going to target driver's more given cars and motor vehicles are an actual danger to other road users.

In general or at least in Ireland anyway cyclists are at worst a nuisance to other road users. Most of the danger from poor cycling impacts the actual user of the vehicle. But you already know this as myself and other posters have supplied the relevant supporting information countless times in previous posts in other threads.

Wrong.

Cars are a much bigger nuisance.

They cause traffic jams.
They cause road damage.
They cause more accidents .
They cause more injuries and deaths.
They cause obstructions when they break down.
They spout harmful gasses and pollute.

CramCycle

John_Rambo wrote: »

Wrong.

Cars are a much bigger nuisance.

They cause traffic jams.
They cause road damage.
They cause more accidents .
They cause more injuries and deaths.
They cause obstructions when they break down.
They spout harmful gasses and pollute.

I think you missed the point of the post. Being a minor nuisance is not something to be concerned about when you think of them relative to the bigger issues.

John_Rambo

CramCycle wrote: »

I think you missed the point of the post. Being a minor nuisance is not something to be concerned about when you think of them relative to the bigger issues.

Yeah, you're right, I did.

tomasrojo

The New South Wales Government confirmed today that it will not be bringing in mandatory photo ID for bicycle riders.

http://cycle.org.au/articles/index.php?page=223

They're keeping the stiff fines though. And why not?

The NSW Go Together road safety campaign has resulted in less than $5,000 in fines issued to motorists for failing to give adequate distance when passing bicycle riders. During the same period $1,333,250 in fines have been issued to bicycle riders.

CramCycle

tomasrojo wrote: »

http://cycle.org.au/articles/index.php?page=223

They're keeping the stiff fines though. And why not?

Has to be a trick, all Australians know that only the poor ride bicycles. Poor people don't have money and do not deserve the respect of good citizens (Australian government, 2002). Therefore they can't have had paid over that amount of money, unless they stole it, which they probably did, because they were drunk or Irish or Aboriginal (Victoria legislature, 2012). Therefore all people on bicycles should be arrested or shot on sight (NSW Police force, 2017).

tomasrojo

Are those real quotes? (Apart from the 2017 one!)

Chips Lovell

Cyclists? Flaming galahs!

buffalo

Via bike snob: http://www.bluemountainsgazette.com.au/story/4341836/festival-fine-fuss/

A Blackheath cyclist has been hit with a $750 fine for “reckless” riding and not wearing a helmet in the annual Blackheath rhododendron street parade.

...

Ms Giddey said the committee was yet to come to an official position over the fine, but if people had a problem with the new protective measures they “should take it up with the police … or write to the people in ISIS.”

Yep, blame ISIS.

Weepsie

An MP wants to use Strava to catch speeding cyclists

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/australian-mp-strava-data-action-against-speeding-cyclists-49356/

Zillah

Weepsie wrote: »

An MP wants to use Strava to catch speeding cyclists

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/australian-mp-strava-data-action-against-speeding-cyclists-49356/

but when someone whizzes past wearing lycra on a bike really fast they can find it really intimidating and feel unsafe

Yes, the lycra is entirely relevant to the situation and not part of your demented prejudice against a form of transport.

Honestly what the fuck is wrong with Australia?

Roadhawk

Weepsie wrote: »

An MP wants to use Strava to catch speeding cyclists

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/australian-mp-strava-data-action-against-speeding-cyclists-49356/

Using strava data to catch speeder is a good idea but you can be sure they haven't done the same for cars with their GPS'

No fear of that here anyway, sure i dont think a speed limits apply to cyclists in Ireland...do they?

Pinch Flat

Roadhawk wrote: »

do they?

Nope. There doesn't seem to be a need at the moment, mainly because cyclists don't kill people by speeding.

PeadarCo

Roadhawk wrote:

Using strava data to catch speeder is a good idea but you can be sure they haven't done the same for cars with their GPS'

The problem with gps data and you see it alot when using apps like strava is that its not always accurate. It perfectly possible to get data errors and accuracy can vary between different devices I.e garmin versus phone. Terain can also impact reception and from that accuracy. There are still speed sensors sold with gps enabled devices to try and get around some of these issues. Grand for training or tracking but it'd be interesting to see how it held up under court scrutiny and the burden of proof required for criminal prosecutions. Its also very easy to hide just don't make your data public.

Speed limits don't apply to cyclists specifically but would be covered under dangerous driving/cycling laws.

Roadhawk

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Nope. There doesn't seem to be a need at the moment, mainly because cyclists don't kill people by speeding.

Really, I thought the main reason would have been because the UK doesn't have it. We seem to follow most of there laws.

• They bring in fines, we bring in fines,
• They bring in penalty points, we bring in penalty points,
• They bring in a drink driving ban, we bring a drink driving ban,
• They bring in fines for cyclists, we bring in fines for cyclists.

Do many cyclists kill people by speeding in Australia?

Pinch Flat

Roadhawk wrote: »

Really, I thought the main reason would have been because the UK doesn't have it. We seem to follow most of there laws.

Well, it would follow that because there's not a requirement for cyclists to adhere to UK speed limits that it would follow that it applies here. A lot of our car / road culture is very similar, to the extent that there's the dangerisation' of cycling and daily mailesque hysteria that surrounds cycling - so hi-vis everything / helmets / bubble wrap as well as increasing calls for cyclists to pay 'road tax', be insured / tattooed / wear microchips.

Roadhawk wrote: »

Do many cyclists kill people by speeding in Australia?

Doubt it.

CramCycle

I once witnessed a cyclist eat a small child whole, wrapped in a demi baguette, hands off the handlebars while he done it, as he wheelied through a red light.

Red Kev

CramCycle wrote: »

I once witnessed a cyclist eat a small child whole, wrapped in a demi baguette, hands off the handlebars while he done it, as he wheelied through a red light.

Did he have that with a nice Chianti and some fava beans?

rollingscone

CramCycle wrote: »

I once witnessed a cyclist eat a small child whole, wrapped in a demi baguette, hands off the handlebars while he done it, as he wheelied through a red light.

Some public bodies here are quite ready to believe you.

#RoadsofaAuthority