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Rent too high, can we move out?

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  • 24-02-2016 3:48pm
    #1
    armabelle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭


    Hey folks

    I am writing to ask your advice on an issue my family and I are having in our newly rented apartment. We are finding it very difficult to make our rental payments as the rent is very high and things have not worked out for us financially as we had hoped. We feel that we can't make rental payments anymore and would like to move to a cheaper neighborhood. The problem is that we have just started the tenancy 2 months ago and don't want to lose our deposit. What should we do?

    Thank you for your help


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    #2
    Butters1979
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Butters1979


    It's not the deposit you could lose, you could be liable to the rent for the remainder of the lease. The best thing you can do is talk to your landlord about this. If it's a high demand area or you could get a new tenant for him he may well agree to release you from the lease.


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    #3
    Theboinkmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,995 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    You could say it to landlord and see if they understand - they might if they're reasonable and sympathetic and once you move on one day and they have new tenant for next they won't be out of pocket. You could promise them you'll arrange all this - continuity of tenancy.

    But this is all dependent on their good graces as you signed a lease that legally they can enforce.

    If landlord doesn't play ball all you can do is move on and forfeit your deposit.


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    #4
    Boater123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 312 ✭✭Boater123


    Every one so far is assuming that you have a fixed term lease. Do you?

    If so, you can ask the LL if you can reassign it. If they refuse you permission to do so, you can break the lease.

    If they do give permission to reassign, you have to get a new tenant (at your expense ie advertising) that LL is happy with.

    If you don't have a fixed term lease, then just give the required notice (less than 6 months is 28 days or used to be any ways).

    Might be best to try work it out all out amicably with the LL first to save you going down this route as others have suggested.


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    #5
    armabelle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭armabelle


    Boater123 wrote: »
    Every one so far is assuming that you have a fixed term lease. Do you?

    If so, you can ask the LL if you can reassign it. If they refuse you permission to do so, you can break the lease.

    If they do give permission to reassign, you have to get a new tenant (at your expense ie advertising) that LL is happy with.

    If you don't have a fixed term lease, then just give the required notice (less than 6 months is 28 days or used to be any ways).

    Might be best to try work it out all out amicably with the LL first to save you going down this route as others have suggested.
    Boater123 wrote: »
    Every one so far is assuming that you have a fixed term lease. Do you?

    If so, you can ask the LL if you can reassign it. If they refuse you permission to do so, you can break the lease.

    If they do give permission to reassign, you have to get a new tenant (at your expense ie advertising) that LL is happy with.

    If you don't have a fixed term lease, then just give the required notice (less than 6 months is 28 days or used to be any ways).

    Might be best to try work it out all out amicably with the LL first to save you going down this route as others have suggested.

    Yes sorry, should have said... it is a one year contract.

    So if we find a new tenant then LL should allow us to reassign it or we can legally move out and not lose our deposit?

    I didnt want to be long winded in my OP but over and above this, the apartment has given us endless problems since we moved in 6 weeks ago. we have had 5 visits by plumbers, maintenance people for repairs and things breaking down and one was serious as the whole floor had to be replaced. Then the landlord still has not provided us with furniture he promised at the beginning of the tenancy. All these things make us wonder if the sacrifice we are making to live near my wifes work is worth it.


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    #6
    armabelle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭armabelle


    Butters1979 wrote: »
    It's not the deposit you could lose, you could be liable to the rent for the remainder of the lease. The best thing you can do is talk to your landlord about this. If it's a high demand area or you could get a new tenant for him he may well agree to release you from the lease.

    ok thanks for helping


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    #7
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    armabelle wrote: »
    Yes sorry, should have said... it is a one year contract.

    So if we find a new tenant then LL should allow us to reassign it or we can legally move out and not lose our deposit?

    I didnt want to be long winded in my OP but over and above this, the apartment has given us endless problems since we moved in 6 weeks ago. we have had 5 visits by plumbers, maintenance people for repairs and things breaking down and one was serious as the whole floor had to be replaced. Then the landlord still has not provided us with furniture he promised at the beginning of the tenancy. All these things make us wonder if the sacrifice we are making to live near my wifes work is worth it.

    Provided the LL has withheld his permission unreasonably. You will need to find suitable tenants which will be easy or difficult depending on the demand in the area.


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    #8
    armabelle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭armabelle


    Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »
    Provided the LL has withheld his permission unreasonably. You will need to find suitable tenants which will be easy or difficult depending on the demand in the area.

    Thank you!

    I found the following from here:

    http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/what-is-assignment-

    Where a landlord refuses an assignment of a Tenancy, a tenant can serve a notice of termination on the landlord.

    I could be wrong as I have no idea what a part 4 tenancy is but it seems to say that if we find anyone and he refuses, then we have the right to serve a notice of termination regardless of whether he sees the person as fit or unfit. What do you think?


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    #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    armabelle wrote: »
    Thank you!

    I found the following from here:

    http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/what-is-assignment-

    Where a landlord refuses an assignment of a Tenancy, a tenant can serve a notice of termination on the landlord.

    This cannot be true surely, its basically a loophole to get out of any lease at any time, leases wouldn't be worth the paper they are written on from a LL perspective.


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    #10
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    Dallas Thoughtless Dealer wrote: »
    This cannot be true surely, its basically a loophole to get out of any lease at any time, leases wouldn't be worth the paper they are written on from a LL perspective.

    It's as true as the fact that any landlord can claim they plan to make extensive renovations on a place so they can raise the rent they are not entitled to raise on the existing tenants.


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    #11
    armabelle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭armabelle


    Dallas Thoughtless Dealer wrote: »
    This cannot be true surely, its basically a loophole to get out of any lease at any time, leases wouldn't be worth the paper they are written on from a LL perspective.

    Yes, this is what I thought as well but then I thought that a LL could simply refuse any possible reassignment of the lease just because he can and wants to make life difficult


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    #12
    armabelle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭armabelle


    Speedwell wrote: »
    It's as true as the fact that any landlord can claim they plan to make extensive renovations on a place so they can raise the rent they are not entitled to raise on the existing tenants.

    Could you explain what you mean please... do you mean that a LL may wish to make renovations towards the end of our tenancy so he can charge more to his new tenants?


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    #13
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    armabelle wrote: »
    Could you explain what you mean please... do you mean that a LL may wish to make renovations towards the end of our tenancy so he can charge more to his new tenants?

    I don't think speedwell is referring specifically to your situation.


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    #14
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    April 73 wrote: »
    I don't think speedwell is referring specifically to your situation.

    Quite right, nothing to do with you, though if he did choose to do this, it would let you off the hook.


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    #15
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    In your situation why not explain the situation to your LL & be honest?
    There are several ways it could go...

    You agree to find new tenants to take over the lease with the LL's agreement.

    You agree to give a months notice & pay for advertising & costs of looking for a new tenant & allow viewings to take place during that last month. The LL may agree to opt for this if he thinks he could up his rent for a completely new tenant. A reasonable LL would consider returning the deposit in this instance if he is not majorally out of pocket from your short stay.

    You accept you made a mistake and losing the deposit might be the price of that mistake.

    A lot will depend on the rental market where you are. Is demand for rental property strong?


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    #16
    armabelle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭armabelle


    April 73 wrote: »
    In your situation why not explain the situation to your LL & be honest?
    There are several ways it could go...

    You agree to find new tenants to take over the lease with the LL's agreement.

    You agree to give a months notice & pay for advertising & costs of looking for a new tenant & allow viewings to take place during that last month. The LL may agree to opt for this if he thinks he could up his rent for a completely new tenant. A reasonable LL would consider returning the deposit in this instance if he is not majorally out of pocket from your short stay.

    You accept you made a mistake and losing the deposit might be the price of that mistake.

    A lot will depend on the rental market where you are. Is demand for rental property strong?

    When you reassign a lease, doesn't the new person take over the contract and the rental amount on it as well? so wouldn't they pay what we are paying?


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    #17
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    armabelle wrote: »
    When you reassign a lease, doesn't the new person take over the contract and the rental amount on it as well? so wouldn't they pay what we are paying?

    Yes, if the lease is reassigned that is the case.


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    #18
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,394 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    armabelle wrote: »
    Hey folks

    I am writing to ask your advice on an issue my family and I are having in our newly rented apartment. We are finding it very difficult to make our rental payments as the rent is very high and things have not worked out for us financially as we had hoped. We feel that we can't make rental payments anymore and would like to move to a cheaper neighborhood. The problem is that we have just started the tenancy 2 months ago and don't want to lose our deposit. What should we do?

    Thank you for your help

    You signed a lease. You could plead your case with the landlord. But the least you're likely to lose here is your deposit.


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    #19
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    Since there are so many significant things wrong with the property, suppose the OP suggest in negotiations with the LL that the LL exercise the clause permitting the LL to break the lease for renovations? It is at least possible the LL didn't realize that the place needed such extensive work anyway.


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    #20
    dori_dormer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭dori_dormer


    I think when reassigning you have to make a decent effort to get good tenants. If it's a 5 bed house in dublin and you tell him this one guy on rent allowance with 20 dogs will take it, who can't afford the rent, then it won't be acceptable. So if he first advertised for a professional couple with no kids or pets, for a 2 bed and you show him acceptable offers that he declines then you can terminate the lease.


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    #21
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,394 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    armabelle wrote: »
    Thank you!

    I found the following from here:

    http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/what-is-assignment-

    Where a landlord refuses an assignment of a Tenancy, a tenant can serve a notice of termination on the landlord.

    I could be wrong as I have no idea what a part 4 tenancy is but it seems to say that if we find anyone and he refuses, then we have the right to serve a notice of termination regardless of whether he sees the person as fit or unfit. What do you think?

    That's mad. What if the landlord has genuine concerns over the prospective replacement tenants?

    I'm not a landlord by the way


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    #22
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    The landlord is entitled to mitigate his losses where a fixed term tenancy is ended by the tenant according to this...
    http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/checklist-for-tenant-serving-a-valid-notice-of-termination

    The best way forward for the OP is to try to reach agreement with the LL and hope that they can both mitigate their potential losses. The only way to do this is to have the discussion in a reasonable manner as early as possible & try to reach a mutual agreement that avoids cases going to the PRTB.


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    #23
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Boater123 wrote: »
    Every one so far is assuming that you have a fixed term lease. Do you?

    If so, you can ask the LL if you can reassign it. If they refuse you permission to do so, you can break the lease.

    If they do give permission to reassign, you have to get a new tenant (at your expense ie advertising) that LL is happy with.

    If you don't have a fixed term lease, then just give the required notice (less than 6 months is 28 days or used to be any ways).

    Might be best to try work it out all out amicably with the LL first to save you going down this route as others have suggested.
    If you find a new tenant that any reasonable person would be happy with then your landlord can't reasonably refuse your request to reassign the lease. deposit etc must be given back in such a situation.
    armabelle wrote: »
    Yes, this is what I thought as well but then I thought that a LL could simply refuse any possible reassignment of the lease just because he can and wants to make life difficult
    No, a Landlord can refuse to accept the new tenant but then the previous tenant is free to give minimum notice and leave without any penalty and any crap such as with-holding the deposit may rightly result in fines from the PRTB.
    lawred2 wrote: »
    That's mad. What if the landlord has genuine concerns over the prospective replacement tenants?

    I'm not a landlord by the way
    They are free to seek out replacement tenants at their own cost if they wish.


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    #24
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    What's all this rubbish about the minimum loss of a deposit?

    The very MAXIMUM the OP should lose is the deposit. OP simply speak to your landlord. I'm a landlord myself and if tenants approached me in a reasonable way I'd bend over backwards to allow them to move out. The alternative is they don't move out!

    Ask if the LL wants you to find tenants (your right) or simply negotiate a partial payment of the deposit to cover expenses.

    As April has rightly pointed out it's about potential loss mitigation.


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    #25
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    We're landlords too and if the property was in demand, would have no problem letting tenants leave in such circumstances but would definitely want to retain at least part of the deposit to cover costs depending on when a new tenant was in situ. No way would we look for anything more, though.

    Definitely worth chatting to the landlord.


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    #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The more you read the more of a joke of how biased towards tenants the rules are in this country.

    Basically a tenant is not bound by a lease at all, they can just reassign it. But if a LL wants to break it to get different tenants he can't unless they have wrecked the place or something.


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    #27
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    Dallas Thoughtless Dealer wrote: »
    The more you read the more of a joke of how biased towards tenants the rules are in this country.

    Basically a tenant is not bound by a lease at all, they can just reassign it. But if a LL wants to break it to get different tenants he can't unless they have wrecked the place or something.

    And exactly why would you want to keep a tenant who cannot pay the rent if they are willing to leave and let you get a new tenant who can?


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    #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Speedwell wrote: »
    And exactly why would you want to keep a tenant who cannot pay the rent if they are willing to leave and let you get a new tenant who can?

    That's just one example of the 100 different reason people might want to break their lease, a lease is a contract and shouldn't have such an easy loophole unless the LL can also put break clauses in the lease which the PRTB won't over rule.

    What if the LL isn't happy with the new tenants, the LL has done the work to find someone (he thought was) suitable did the work to confirm they were potentially good etc etc. This is possibly a reason you could argue is fair enough if they can't pay but read other threads people signing leases and then deciding to take another job somewhere else, couples breaking up and wanting to get away from each other etc these reason should be tough luck.

    Look at the other thread just opened a person wants to buy a house to live in but the current tenants have a long lease, the owner should be able to break that lease and move in. But of course they aren't allowed while if the tenants decided they wanted to break it there would be no issue. Joke of a system.


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    #29
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    No, a Landlord can refuse to accept the new tenant but then the previous tenant is free to give minimum notice and leave without any penalty and any crap such as with-holding the deposit may rightly result in fines from the PRTB.

    Not sure that's true. The RTA allows the tenant to serve notice if the landlord refuses consent to assignment. That's only the first step of the process. It's silent on the criteria for replacement of the tenant and rightly so as it allows common sense to be applied and the landlord can then have a say on suitability of any proposed assignee.


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    #30
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    Dallas Thoughtless Dealer wrote: »
    Look at the other thread just opened a person wants to buy a house to live in but the current tenants have a long lease, the owner should be able to break that lease and move in. But of course they aren't allowed while if the tenants decided they wanted to break it there would be no issue. Joke of a system.

    If this is the thread I'm thinking of, the "current tenants" are a letting agency, and the house is currently vacant.


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    #31
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Dallas Thoughtless Dealer wrote: »
    The more you read the more of a joke of how biased towards tenants the rules are in this country.

    Basically a tenant is not bound by a lease at all, they can just reassign it. But if a LL wants to break it to get different tenants he can't unless they have wrecked the place or something.

    With a successful assignment, there's no financial loss to the landlord. I don't see what the problem with that is.


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