Educate Together In Trouble?

Mawkchunk

Hi, I know for the past few years ET have been in financial trouble. Now they are asking schools to give a 'voluntary contribution' on top of the money schools give annually. Anyone have any information?

Did someone resign abruptly recently? Any know anything about anything? TIA

galljga1

Mawkchunk wrote: »

Hi, I know for the past few years ET have been in financial trouble. Now they are asking schools to give a 'voluntary contribution' on top of the money schools give annually. Anyone have any information?

Did someone resign abruptly recently? Any know anything about anything? TIA

Most schools ask for a 'voluntary" contribution.

Re-reading the OP, is that a vonuntary contribution from the school to ET?

spurious

OP can you provide any evidence for your 'knowledge' that ET schools are in any more financial difficulty than any other schools?

tabby aspreme

Voluntary contributions in some ET schools are high but it seems the schools are supporting the parent body, the schools wouldn't be allowed to give ET management any of the money the dept allocates in grants, so I suppose the contributions are needed.

byhookorbycrook

Can the OP supply a source please

echo beach

Many national schools that have a bishop as patron are able to draw on parish resources for fundraising, etc. and all parishioners, not just parents of school-going children, have a connection to the school with many putting their hands into their pockets to support it.
I don't know if ET schools have a similar network to tap into for funds to supplement inadequate state funding.

made a loss in 2014 of €61k,

https://www.educatetogether.ie/sites/default/files/et_audited_accounts_2014.pdf

Riverireland

Deleted User wrote: »

made a loss in 2014 of €61k,

https://www.educatetogether.ie/sites/default/files/et_audited_accounts_2014.pdf

I would have thought that was a very good result, no?

killbillvol2

RainyDay wrote: »

That's positive, though some parents may be reluctant to request, or may not know that they can request.

...or couldn't care less.

byhookorbycrook

Off topic posts moved to this thread :
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057566824

2015 figures don't look good at all, loss of €258k,

little in the way of assets

http://www.educatetogether.ie/sites/default/files/2015_auditedaccounts.pdf

afkasurfjunkie

Why would anyone think that schools make a profit? I don't know of any school rolling in it, be it Catholic or ET.

afkasurfjunkie

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

Why would anyone think that schools make a profit? I don't know of any school rolling in it, be it Catholic or ET.

any organisation should try to break even, looking at the accounts, the ET organisation will run out of money, unless other sources of income are found, or expenditure is cut, simple as that.

Sesame

I'm all for divesting our schools and would love to see Catholic patrons removed from more schools, particularly rural schools where we don't have the option of Educate Together type schools.
But, I do wonder about about Educate Together as a patron. I was very keen on the idea of supporting their cause until I read they have set up a school in Bristol. It seems like a strange thing to do for an Irish charitable organisation which is trying to raise more funds in Ireland.
I can imagine people would not be happy, for instance, of St Vincent de Paul started helping out people in the UK.
I don't know the rationale behind it and I'm sure its all legitimate but it doesn't seem very in keeping with the effort to provide an alternative option to parents in Ireland. The UK doesn't have the same issue at all.
Is it overly ambitious and/or detrimental to the Irish cause which started the movement?
There was an interesting letter in the Irish Times today about the whole patronage idea and questioning if it is needed at all. Could the government/councils run schools without a patron? It would eliminate a some financial concerns/religious or ideological influences in schools and possibly standardise education across the board.
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/school-patronage-1.2773376

expectationlost

Mawkchunk wrote: »

Hi, I know for the past few years ET have been in financial trouble. Now they are asking schools to give a 'voluntary contribution' on top of the money schools give annually. Anyone have any information?

Did someone resign abruptly recently? Any know anything about anything? TIA

there was some comment a while back that they main funders (atlantic philantrophy and the one foundation) were scaling back and they had to find other sources of money

average_runner

The ET model is all wrong. Where we live there 4 ET schools, all quite small in lucan
Surely it would of made more sense to build a nice big school instead.

2RockMountain

average_runner wrote: »

The ET model is all wrong. Where we live there 4 ET schools, all quite small in lucan
Surely it would of made more sense to build a nice big school instead.

Why? Are big schools better for students?

cruizer101

average_runner wrote: »

The ET model is all wrong.

The school patronage system is all wrong, I would echo the sentiment of the above linked letter in Irish Times, why do we need patronage at all. Having multiple bodies is going to result is wastage the state should be responsible for all schools.

expectationlost

average_runner wrote: »

The ET model is all wrong. Where we live there 4 ET schools, all quite small in lucan
Surely it would of made more sense to build a nice big school instead.

is the spread and number of ET primary schools any different to the spread and number of primary schools in general elsewhere?

Westernyelp

2RockMountain wrote:

Why? Are big schools better for students?

You don't have to pay 4 principals for one thing, plus other synergies

Bandana boy

2RockMountain wrote: »

Why? Are big schools better for students?

Not better or worse for students , but can save money on support staff for the teaching staff

Already mentioned the principle but also everything else from Cleaning to payrole to security etc

2RockMountain

Westernyelp wrote: »

You don't have to pay 4 principals for one thing, plus other synergies

So having one overstretched Principal supervising 4 x number of teachers is definitely better for students, you believe?

Bandana boy wrote: »

Not better or worse for students , but can save money on support staff for the teaching staff

Already mentioned the principle but also everything else from Cleaning to payrole to security etc

Do you think that efficiency of cleaning/payroll services should be high priority issues when deciding when/where/how to locate schools?

Sesame

Also better for students in regards to better resources, more options of subjects, potentially more diversity, bigger playing areas, more facilities, especially with regards to those with special needs. There are economies of scale too in regards to ancillary staff, facilities and even arrangements for drop of, parking, etc.
Big schools are always better, in my opinion, for everyone.

Bandana boy

2RockMountain wrote: »

So having one overstretched Principal supervising 4 x number of teachers is definitely better for students, you believe?



Do you think that efficiency of cleaning/payroll services should be high priority issues when deciding when/where/how to locate schools?

Read that another way, should cost be considered , then absolutely , Definitely when you look at Lucan with 4 schools very close to each other.
As much of the cost as possible should be on resources the Kids utilize like teachers and materials and the least possible on support staff.

If the school gets big enough that the principle needs support then that should be done but a lot of the admin of a principle is the same whether catering for 30 students or 300

evolving_doors

2RockMountain wrote: »

Why? Are big schools better for students?

They get more resources.

byhookorbycrook

Gebgbegb wrote: »

They get more resources.

Not always, proportionally.

2RockMountain

Gebgbegb wrote: »

They get more resources.

They get resources in proportion to their number of pupils, so the 'more resources' is divided among more pupils.

Sesame wrote: »

Also better for students in regards to better resources, more options of subjects, potentially more diversity, bigger playing areas, more facilities, especially with regards to those with special needs. There are economies of scale too in regards to ancillary staff, facilities and even arrangements for drop of, parking, etc.
Big schools are always better, in my opinion, for everyone.

These are primary schools, so subject choice is not an issue. There might be bigger playing areas, and more parking and more facilities, but there are more kids to use up those resources - so where is the benefit?

Bandana boy wrote: »

Read that another way, should cost be considered , then absolutely , Definitely when you look at Lucan with 4 schools very close to each other.
As much of the cost as possible should be on resources the Kids utilize like teachers and materials and the least possible on support staff.

Yes, costs should be considered all right. Costs of cleaners or security are a drop in the ocean for any school - probably less than 1%. These are very minor issues - the real cost issues in schools are around teachers salaries, running costs like heating/electricity, IT support costs, and material costs. Cleaners are a very, very small issue.

Bandana boy wrote: »

If the school gets big enough that the principle needs support then that should be done but a lot of the admin of a principle is the same whether catering for 30 students or 300

So dealing with 30 sets of parents is the same as dealing with 300 ( or maybe 250 to allow for siblings) sets of parents? Ok then.

Sesame

Not sure why you are disagreeing on those points or what your point is. But, yes, economies of scale do exist and big schools provide far more facilities and choice for children. And potentially more opportunities to discover their talents.
For instance, my child can chose learn tin whistle or Irish dancing during school hours as part of music and PE. A larger school would have violin, a basketball court, maybe indoor hall, etc so more variety is offered.
My child's school doesn't even have a hall. It's a collection of Portocabin classrooms.
If it amalgamated with a bigger school, yes we may have to drive further, but it would offer more subject choice.

2RockMountain

Sesame wrote: »

Not sure why you are disagreeing on those points or what your point is. But, yes, economies of scale do exist and big schools provide far more facilities and choice for children. And potentially more opportunities to discover their talents.
For instance, my child can chose learn tin whistle or Irish dancing during school hours as part of music and PE. A larger school would have violin, a basketball court, maybe indoor hall, etc so more variety is offered.
My child's school doesn't even have a hall. It's a collection of Portocabin classrooms.
If it amalgamated with a bigger school, yes we may have to drive further, but it would offer more subject choice.

I'm disagreeing with them because they are factually incorrect. I know of one small new school (only JI, SI and 1st class) that introduced violin lessons for students this year. This is nothing to do with the size of the school. It is to do with the school prioritising this issue. Yes, not having a hall is a problem - but again, this isn't the issue raised here. I'd bet a fiver that all four of the ET schools in Lucan have a hall or GP room, as there is enough demand in those growing areas to require a decent sized schools. I've no idea why anyone would want to throw all these schools together, making kids and families travel further, and depersonalising the schools - apparently to save a few pennies on cleaning costs?

Sesame

Righto

byhookorbycrook

We're going off topic, I'm opening a new thread.