frozen dinos?

Linnaeus

Until now, I think, no one has ever found a frozen dinosaur. Mammoths from northern regions, yes, cave lion cubs and other mammals; but no dinos. We know that certain prehistoric reptilian species did reach sub-polar zones; but those zones were apparently somewhat milder in the Jurassic and Triassic than in the Cenozoic. At any rate, there must have been occasional severe winters; I cannot help but wonder if some dinos, which did not hibernate and were not able to reach shelter, might have frozen to death and been buried under the snow. Just as the mammoths and Otzi the Iceman were.

Dino eggs would have been more protected from the cold, I think; nevertheless, during particularly inclement winters some of them might have occasionally been deep frozen. If so, then the embryos inside would likely be extremely well preserved: internal organs, skin, scales and all.

The discovery of frozen dinosaurs and their equally frozen eggs would give us priceless information concerning the external appearance and physiology of these creatures.

Adam Khor

Impossible. Even if some Mesozoic dinos had become frozen back in the day, they would have melted down and decayed into nothing afterwards. You have to consider the enormous amount of time that has gone between dinosaurs and the modern day; there's been numerous ice ages and meltdowns since then, so the only frozen animals we have are those from the very last glaciation, the Pleistocene one. The glaciars you see today have NOT been there since the Mesozoic!

I'm afraid no frozen dinosaurs out there (except perhaps for, yeah, you guessed, birds...)

Wibbs

Well… kinda possible… maybe. They have found mummified dinosaurs, to be precise fossilised mummified dinosaurs, where the animal's soft tissues were originally rapidly preserved, mummified and then later mineralised in the usual fossil process. So one could imagine a scenario where a dinosaur say fell into a frozen lake and was preserved whole and then became a fossil later on.

Adam Khor

Wibbs wrote: »

Well… kinda possible… maybe. They have found mummified dinosaurs, to be precise fossilised mummified dinosaurs, where the animal's soft tissues were originally rapidly preserved, mummified and then later mineralised in the usual fossil process. So one could imagine a scenario where a dinosaur say fell into a frozen lake and was preserved whole and then became a fossil later on.

Yeah but I doubt this is what Linnaeus had un mind

Linnaeus

Wibbs' idea makes sense. An animal which was first FROZEN and then FOSSILIZED without any significant decomposition taking place would probably retain more of its original appearance than the dried-out hadrosaur mummies we have today. Freezing can very effectively conserve corpses, although even this process does cause a minor degree of dehydration.

Adam Khor

But what would the conditions need to be like for such a thing to happen? From what I read about the Pleistocene finds, once the ice melts the bodies start to decay very rapidly. Wouldn´t the body need to be completely covered in something that protected it from scavengers and bacteria in order to become fossilized?

Linnaeus

Yes, completely covered by something like permafrost, in sterile surroundings, until the fossilization process could take place.

Capt'n Midnight

you'd need to find somewhere very cold and continuously cold. Continents move and while cold mountain tops erode. Biomolecules break down over long time even
if cold.

Antartica had a lot of dinos, but the landscape is ice scoured. Oldest Ice is 1.5 million years old. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientists-close-in-on-planets-oldest-ice/ The dry valleys have been dry for maybe 2 million years, still not long enough though.

Perhaps a brine lake so preserved in a salt layer but not mineralised ?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/pictures/131003-calcified-birds-bats-africa-lake-natron-tanzania-animals-science/

What's the oldest bog ?

Adam Khor

No idea... a Google search shows mostly articles on bog mummies (most of them under 4000 years old)

Capt'n Midnight

I suppose the point is that temperate zones are temporary, hippos in London, forests in the Sahara etc. You can rule out areas that were warm during the interglacials.

How about very very old tar pits ?


Or, and this is a long shot, the KT asteroid ejected lots of stuff, so maybe somewhere out there orbiting the sun are freeze dried dinos ?
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-25201572

Adam Khor

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Or, and this is a long shot, the KT asteroid ejected lots of stuff, so maybe somewhere out there orbiting the sun are freeze dried dinos ?
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-25201572

Well now I'll probably dream that.