Child benefit for a dad

Zefff · 25-02-2016 11:59am #1

Hi everyone, my wife and I have been in Tralee for about a month with our 8 month old. Luckily I am able to be self employed while I search for jobs, because the job market is a bit quiet here. As you can imagine, we'll take any bit of assistance we can, so I am currently filling out the application form for Child Benefit, and since we haven't been here long, the Habitual Resident Condition form to accompany it.

I (the father of our child) am the one applying since I have EU (UK) citizenship. My wife is Canadian. The farther I get with the application, however, the more I'm wondering if I'll run into problems for that very reason, not being the mother of the child. Will I?

I can't proceed any further with my application until I've received my tax registration number and print off 6 months of bank account history, so in the meantime, I'm wondering if people have any suggestions. Thanks very much.

haveringchick · 25-02-2016 1:11pm

In Ireland the CB is paid to the mother of the child if the mother of the child is living with the child
Get another form and proceed with the child's mother as the applicant
Your current application will be rejected

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Child-Benefit.aspx

Zefff · 25-02-2016 1:21pm

haveringchick wrote: »

In Ireland the CB is paid to the mother of the child if the mother of the child is living with the child
Get another form and proceed with the child's mother as the applicant
Your current application will be rejected

Really? I'd be mightily surprised if a Canadian could receive EU benefits. She doesn't even have her residence card yet, as we will most likely require my tax registration number that I have yet to receive for that application too.

Jayop · 25-02-2016 1:24pm

It's the biggest joke that I can't go to the post office and pick up our kids child allowance. It should be paid to whomever the parents want.

Zefff · 25-02-2016 1:28pm

Jayop wrote: »

It's the biggest joke that I can't go to the post office and pick up our kids child allowance. It should be paid to whomever the parents want.

I take it you're a dad then, and it really is true that a father can't receive child benefit on behalf of his family. Wow. That's just a wee bit old fashioned, isn't it?

billie1b · 25-02-2016 1:31pm

haveringchick wrote: »

In Ireland the CB is paid to the mother of the child if the mother of the child is living with the child
Get another form and proceed with the child's mother as the applicant
Your current application will be rejected

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Child-Benefit.aspx

Friend of mine (Male) is in receipt of his 2 kids CB

haveringchick · 25-02-2016 1:33pm

billie1b wrote: »

Friend of mine (Male) is in receipt of his 2 kids CB

Where is the mother of these kids though?
Or is it the case that the CB is paid into an account that he has access too?

billie1b · 25-02-2016 1:34pm

haveringchick wrote: »

Where is the mother of these kids though?
Or is it the case that the CB is paid into an account that he has access too?

No the CB is in his name, paid to his account, the mother lives here but they are seperated.

Jayop · 25-02-2016 1:35pm

Zefff wrote: »

I take it you're a dad then, and it really is true that a father can't receive child benefit on behalf of his family. Wow. That's just a wee bit old fashioned, isn't it?

I've not looked into it for years. We could have it paid into a bank account which would solve this issue but I've been asking herself to do that for over ten years and still no luck. Iirc she used to be able to sign the book and that would allow me to pick it up on her behalf.

Hopefully it's changed since then.

Gatling · 25-02-2016 1:35pm

billie1b wrote: »

No the CB is in his name, paid to his account, the mother lives here but they are seperated.

Who has the kids him or her

haveringchick · 25-02-2016 1:35pm

Zefff wrote: »

Really? I'd be mightily surprised if a Canadian could receive EU benefits. She doesn't even have her residence card yet, as we will most likely require my tax registration number that I have yet to receive for that application too.

I don't believe that I said that she was eligible, just that she must apply

Jayop · 25-02-2016 1:35pm

billie1b wrote: »

No the CB is in his name, paid to his account, the mother lives here but they are seperated.

Is he the primary care giver?

haveringchick · 25-02-2016 1:37pm

billie1b wrote: »

No the CB is in his name, paid to his account, the mother lives here but they are seperated.

So the man lives with his kids and the mother of the child lives seperatley
Well, that's not the case with the OP

Zefff · 25-02-2016 1:38pm

haveringchick wrote: »

I don't believe that I said that she was eligible, just that she must apply

Surely you'd agree that I, being the self employed EU citizen exercising my treaty rights, would have a better application than a Canadian who is (as of now still w/o her RC) only permitted to be here for a designated period of time.

Speedwell · 25-02-2016 1:42pm

Zefff wrote: »

Surely you'd agree that I, being the self employed EU citizen exercising my treaty rights, would have a better application than a Canadian who is (as of now still w/o her RC) only permitted to be here for a designated period of time.

Exercising your treaty rights? Good luck with that. I'm an American married to an Irish citizen born in Northern Ireland who holds both passports (we needed him to have one and send one to the US for tax reasons shortly after we were married). He applied for some sort of jobseeker benefit and they told him to "go back to the UK" (naturally I don't qualify for a marriage visa for the UK), and that if he wanted to exercise his "rights" as an EU citizen he was only allowed to stay in Ireland for six months.

Zefff · 25-02-2016 1:43pm

Looks like I'll have to make a trip back to INTREO

Zefff · 25-02-2016 1:47pm

Speedwell wrote: »

Exercising your treaty rights? Good luck with that. I'm an American married to an Irish citizen born in Northern Ireland who holds both passports (we needed him to have one and send one to the US for tax reasons shortly after we were married). He applied for some sort of jobseeker benefit and they told him to "go back to the UK" (naturally I don't qualify for a marriage visa for the UK), and that if he wanted to exercise his "rights" as an EU citizen he was only allowed to stay in Ireland for six months.

First I've heard of that. UK citizens are entitled to live in Ireland without any conditions or restrictions.

haveringchick · 25-02-2016 1:47pm

Zefff wrote: »

Surely you'd agree that I, being the self employed EU citizen exercising my treaty rights, would have a better application than a Canadian who is (as of now still w/o her RC) only permitted to be hgere for a designated period of time.

I'm not stopping you from applying at all
What I am telling you is that they will reject your application and send a fresh application for the mother of the children to complete.
Those are the rules. As always we may not agree with the rules, but there you go.
That is my professional advice but you should really go ahead and proceed whichever way you like.

Speedwell · 25-02-2016 1:49pm

Zefff wrote: »

First I've heard of that. UK citizens are entitled to live in Ireland without any conditions or restrictions.

I know, right? There's some clause, to be sure, about EU citizens without income and a six-month rule. But not only can he live here without restrictions as a UK citizen, but he's an Irish citizen. But that's what they said, more than once. Sheer incompetence.

haveringchick needs a hug and a glass of wine as a rule, but she's right on the facts.

Zefff · 25-02-2016 1:50pm

haveringchick wrote: »

I'm not stopping you from applying at all
What I am telling you is that they will reject your application and send a fresh application for the mother of the children to complete.
Those are the rules. As always we may not agree with the rules, but there you go.
That is my professional advice but you should really go ahead and proceed whichever way you like.

I realize you're not stopping me, and I do really appreciate your input.
It would, however, be futile for my wife to apply, if Social Welfare Services does indeed go by EU law.

haveringchick · 25-02-2016 1:57pm

Speedwell wrote: »

Exercising your treaty rights? Good luck with that. I'm an American married to an Irish citizen born in Northern Ireland who holds both passports (we needed him to have one and send one to the US for tax reasons shortly after we were married). He applied for some sort of jobseeker benefit and they told him to "go back to the UK" (naturally I don't qualify for a marriage visa for the UK), and that if he wanted to exercise his "rights" as an EU citizen he was only allowed to stay in Ireland for six months.

If her were in receipt of JSB in the UK for 4 weeks before he came to Ireland then he could have transferred his JSB from UK to Ireland for 58 days, but he would have needed to do that BEFORE he left the UK

haveringchick · 25-02-2016 1:57pm

haveringchick wrote: »

If her were in receipt of JSB in the UK for 4 weeks before he came to Ireland then he could have transferred his JSB from UK to Ireland for 58 days, but he would have needed to do that BEFORE he left the UK

Sorry 78 days

Speedwell · 25-02-2016 1:58pm

haveringchick wrote: »

Sorry 78 days

Yes, you are correct. Unfortunately that was not the situation we were in. Good info, though.

haveringchick · 25-02-2016 2:00pm

Zefff wrote: »

I realize you're not stopping me, and I do really appreciate your input.
It would, however, be futile for my wife to apply, if Social Welfare Services does indeed go by EU law.

I'm interested as to where you see EU law being breached by the Dept of Social Protection
If you could point is to the Act you are referring to then it would be helpful

Zefff · 25-02-2016 2:00pm

Speedwell wrote: »

Yes, you are correct. Unfortunately that was not the situation we were in. Good info, though.

So if you're living in N Ireland now, you must have done the Surinder Singh route, did you?

Speedwell · 25-02-2016 2:02pm

Zefff wrote: »

So if you're living in N Ireland now, you must have done the Surinder Singh route, did you?

Nope, I live in Sligo as a Stamp 4 "spouse of an Irish citizen". You don't qualify for Surinder Singh as a dual citizen, it turns out; you have to "exercise your treaty rights" in an EU country of which you are NOT a citizen for SS to kick in (for him, anywhere but Ireland and the UK). There are less than a hundred people in the world in this exact position, I am given to understand, lol. I have slightly over a year to go before I am eligible to apply for citizenship here, and then we could consider moving to the UK under EU migration laws if they are still part of the EU, or if they are not part of the EU and allow free movement to Irish citizens. But the fact is we would rather stay in Ireland!

haveringchick · 25-02-2016 2:06pm

Speedwell wrote: »

I know, right? There's some clause, to be sure, about EU citizens without income and a six-month rule. But not only can he live here without restrictions as a UK citizen, but he's an Irish citizen. But that's what they said, more than once. Sheer incompetence.

haveringchick needs a hug and a glass of wine as a rule, but she's right on the facts.

If there was "sheer incompetence " on behalf of the Dept. then how did your Appeal go? Surely the desicion to refuse was overturned, and if not then what reason was given? Did you go to the Ombudsman? They root out any incompetence very quickly. You can go to their website and see many cases brought to their attention and as a result justice is restored
Or is it simply the case that your OH just wasn't entitled, end of story?

Speedwell · 25-02-2016 2:07pm

haveringchick wrote: »

If there was "sheer incompetence " on behalf of the Dept. then how did your Appeal go? Surely the desicion to refuse was overturned, and if not then what reason was given? Did you go to the Ombudsman? They root out any incompetence very quickly. You can go to their website and see many cases brought to their attention and as a result justice is restored
Or is it simply the case that your OH just wasn't entitled, end of story?

Or, the appeal was decided by the same incompetent who made the original decision. But I am touched by your faith in the system, absolutely brings a tear to my eyes.

billie1b · 25-02-2016 2:12pm

haveringchick wrote: »

So the man lives with his kids and the mother of the child lives seperatley
Well, that's not the case with the OP

But you said the CB is paid to the mother in Ireland, not always the case, my friend has joint custody but he is the primary and gets the CB. You also said that the mother gets it if she lives with the child, which is also not true, a work friend of mine lives with his 2 daughters here, has full custody through a Polish court and the mum lives in Poland, yet he doesn't get it as the CB offices wont recognise the court order and told him he has to bring the mother to court here in Ireland to get it changed, every year in January she get a cheque for the previous 12 months benefit in Ireland.

Zefff · 25-02-2016 2:12pm

haveringchick wrote: »

I'm interested as to where you see EU law being breached by the Dept of Social Protection
If you could point is to the Act you are referring to then it would be helpful

I can't point to any act. That's part of the reason I created this thread. I simply thought that, being the EU citizen, I would be entitled to any EU benefits, but I am learning that isn't the case.

If my Canadian wife who is here on a 90 day entry passport stamp can complete the Habitual Residence Condition, then she may well be eligible for receipt of EU assistance, and that just kind of blows my mind haha.

haveringchick · 25-02-2016 2:13pm

Speedwell wrote: »

Or, the appeal was decided by the same incompetent who made the original decision. But I am touched by your faith in the system, absolutely brings a tear to my eyes.

But the desicion to refuse was made by a DO at a local Office and your Appeal should have been to D'Olier St so that wouldn't be right.
Once again alleged incompetence is one of the reasons we have an Ombudsman, and it's really easy to take a case, surely you would if your that sure that there's been this huge cock up in your OHs application

Child benefit for a dad

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