Management Course

niamh4626

Good afternoon all,
My role in work has recently escalated and I am now in a management position with no real management training. I need to do a course and pronto. Can anyone recommend an intensive management course they may have completed?
Thank you for your replies in advance,
Niamh

ishotjr2

Have a read over this, might help a little.

https://hbr.org/1999/11/management-time-whos-got-the-monkey
Editor’s Note: This article was originally published in the November–December 1974 issue of HBR and has been one of the publication’s two best-selling reprints ever.

BreadnBuddha

niamh4626 wrote: »

Good afternoon all,
My role in work has recently escalated and I am now in a management position with no real management training. I need to do a course and pronto. Can anyone recommend an intensive management course they may have completed?
Thank you for your replies in advance,
Niamh

People management, line of business management or both?

pedronomix

Why would you post such on a business and enterprise forum?

BreadnBuddha

pedronomix wrote: »

Why would you post such on a business and enterprise forum?

Is that a question for me?

In case it is, I'm asking if the OP's primary focus is on managing the processes and non-personnel inputs/outputs of a specific service/product range (procurement, sales and marketting, R&D, logistics, support) or if they are engaged in the day to day management of a pool of human resources, or both.

pedronomix

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Is that a question for me?

In case it is, I'm asking if the OP's primary focus is on managing the processes and non-personnel inputs/outputs of a specific service/product range (procurement, sales and marketting, R&D, logistics, support) or if they are engaged in the day to day management of a pool of human resources, or both.

My apologies. It was directed at the OP.

niamh4626

Thank ishotjr2, I will check that out.
BreadnBuddha & pedronomix - I thought many of the people in this forum would have attended a business management course & this would be a good place to seek advice. If you could recommend a forum you think I would get better responses from that would be great.
It is a people management course I'm seeking, preferably a 4-5 day intensive course in Ireland or the UK.
Thank you,
Niamh

pedroeibar1

Have a look at the websites of the Irish Management Institute imi.ie and IPA.ie .

In your position I'd be looking at something longer as a short course (3-4 days) will only skim the surface. I'd also confine it to Ireland as UK HR practice is quite different. A positive of a longer course is the contacts you'd make, useful network to have for bouncing ideas/queries off in the future.

BreadnBuddha

http://www.imi.ie/short-programmes/management-and-leadership/essential-skills-of-management/

http://www.imi.ie/short-programmes/focused-skills/managing-people/

Can't recommend the above, but have a look and see what you think.

If you want a quick and free introduction to a lot of different management topics, I can wholeheartedly recommend the FutureLearn platform.

https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/categories/business-and-management

It's open access, open university style education. Seriously worth a look.

niamh4626

Thank you all very much. I'm going to look into doing a longer management course here in Dublin, you're right about making contacts etc.
BreadnBuddah - I had a look at the futurelearn.com website - seriously, it looks great, its amazing that such a facility and learning tool is free of charge and available to all.
Thanks,
N

ironclaw

I'd be of the opinion you would be better off doing a long term course such as the IMI or some of the part time Masters programs from the major colleges. If you decide to move on in a few years from your current role, you have experience and some form of paperwork to back it up. Absolutely nothing wrong with not doing them, but you'd be in a strong position that other candidates who just have experience. I am involved in a two year course at present and even with a lot of job travel, its perfectly manageable.

I have a degree in marketing & management, 4 years and it was a waste of time apart from the accounting parts. The course was full of lecturers pretending to know something about business but just collecting a paycheck and telling you to read to X Y and Z in the library and regurgitate it for exams. I may be over cynical but I don't know where my honours degree is, I may have even thrown it away.

My suggestion if you need a crash course in management is to find successful people in your industry who have written books on said industry, and read as much as you can from those who have actually done it and risen to the top of their field. You should pick up a lot of tips that will help you. You could end up taking a management course, spending a chunk of cash and not really getting anything out of it unless you have a talented and experienced person teaching it.

In my opinion management is about a couple of things

Motivation: Through financial gain and being charismatic and humorous
Fear: They must at least fear you a little bit
Respect: They must respect you, your work ethic, your integrity.

A combination of the above is I believe how you get people to work for you and work well. Different cultures respond to varying levels of the above.
Probably goes against the standard texts, I don't know, but it has worked for me in managing large groups of people.

pedroeibar1

Deleted User wrote: »

I have a degree in marketing & management, 4 years and it was a waste of time apart from the accounting parts. The course was full of lecturers pretending to know something about business but just collecting a paycheck and telling you to read to X Y and Z in the library and regurgitate it for exams. I may be over cynical but I don't know where my honours degree is, I may have even thrown it away.

My suggestion if you need a crash course in management is to find successful people in your industry who have written books on said industry, and read as much as you can from those who have actually done it and risen to the top of their field. You should pick up a lot of tips that will help you. You could end up taking a management course, spending a chunk of cash and not really getting anything out of it unless you have a talented and experienced person teaching it.

In my opinion management is about a couple of things

Motivation: Through financial gain and being charismatic and humorous
Fear: They must at least fear you a little bit
Respect: They must respect you, your work ethic, your integrity.

A combination of the above is I believe how you get people to work for you and work well. Different cultures respond to varying levels of the above.
Probably goes against the standard texts, I don't know, but it has worked for me in managing large groups of people.

I don’t often disagree with you El Rifle, but I do, partly, on this occasion.

If a person is going to invest time & cash (particularly for a course that is not sponsored by the employer) that person should get value for money, which means a recognizable qualification and good lecturers. As Ironclaw pointed out above, a “certificate” from some online course is next to useless when jobhunting. One level up from a certificate, there even is a big perceived difference between a diploma from for e.g. the IMI and an IT.

I’ve no links with the IMI but many years ago when I had an involvement key industry personnel were regularly brought in as guest lecturers.

I agree that reading management books/magazines is a help, but there is a lot of clichéd dross out there and not all industries have appropriate reading material available. Anyway, CPD including reading is a basic requirement and a library card gets you the Economist and several good publications online.

Tiger Woods and McIlroy don't get their coaching from books, they get it from practice and real coaches.

pedroeibar1

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I don’t often disagree with you El Rifle, but I do, partly, on this occasion.

If a person is going to invest time & cash (particularly for a course that is not sponsored by the employer) that person should get value for money, which means a recognizable qualification and good lecturers. As Ironclaw pointed out above, a “certificate” from some online course is next to useless when jobhunting. One level up from a certificate, there even is a big perceived difference between a diploma from for e.g. the IMI and an IT.

I’ve no links with the IMI but many years ago when I had an involvement key industry personnel were regularly brought in as guest lecturers.

I agree that reading management books/magazines is a help, but there is a lot of clichéd dross out there and not all industries have appropriate reading material available. Anyway, CPD including reading is a basic requirement and a library card gets you the Economist and several good publications online.

Tiger Woods and McIlroy don't get their coaching from books, they get it from practice and real coaches.

Yes I think many would disagree. My route though is very different to most, and an actual qualification is not important where as to someone else not strictly going down the entrepreneurial route a serious qualification can be an important pre-requisite to climbing the ladder, payscales etc etc and some other things.
My university was a pretty good one, but I found the standard of lecturing bad at the time and shocking when I look back. Basically projectors and note taking, no independent thought and no real insight into business or management. Granted it could be just that course at the time, and I would expect guest lecturers - and I have done that myself - would deliver a much better level of knowledge. If thats what these courses you mention do and offer then its a different story most likely.
In terms of books, the standard prescribed texts are not something I would recommend, experts in the industry can help a lot though.
Trump's books on real estate for example (forget feelings on Trump for a minute) give some excellent insight in how to approach real estate deals, the types of things you need in your paperwork, how to legally approach certain things, how to potential structure deals. The idea being he has been there and done that and references real life situations he has been in, whereas I feel many of the prescribed texts are written on the basis of theory and not practice. They give case studies but the people writing were not involved in what was happening, they are merely interpreting.

Mrs OBumble

pedronomix wrote: »

Why would you post such on a business and enterprise forum?

The forum name is "Entrepreneurial and Business Management" today (bolding mine). Maybe it's changed lately - but given today's name it looks relevant.


OP, what is it that you need to manage: Production / operations? People? Finances? Legal aspects of your operation? Risks? Sales and marketing? IT? Suppliers?

Giving us some idea would help us to give you better advice? Especially about whether you're managing people or not - that can be a particularly challenging bit.


Some will say that all management is people management. Not necessarily true - in some businesses the people side is small compared to the other aspects.

pedronomix

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The forum name is "Entrepreneurial and Business Management" today (bolding mine). Maybe it's changed lately - but given today's name it looks relevant.


OP, what is it that you need to manage: Production / operations? People? Finances? Legal aspects of your operation? Risks? Sales and marketing? IT? Suppliers?

Giving us some idea would help us to give you better advice? Especially about whether you're managing people or not - that can be a particularly challenging bit.


Some will say that all management is people management. Not necessarily true - in some businesses the people side is small compared to the other aspects.

Must have been having one of my cranky days! However, it has never been perceived as one for the hired help, there are plenty of others for that.

You are right about the lack of infomation as to the role/function/responsibilities. Some management positions require huge specific topic knowledge others not so, but the people/communications skills are the very fundamentals of management that effectively manages. Taking into consideration up/down/peer interaction, the weighted split may differ but not the need for these skills. Working on any deficits in these will always pay dividends. The right decision or way to handle most management decisions is usually simple common sense, the difficulty is that this path is generally the most difficult option. Add honesty and fairness to the mix along with a generosity of spirit and an ability to offer praise, not just discpline, and you have the makings of a great manager. In 60 odd years I have never met an a**hole that was a good manager.

TheFin

niamh4626 wrote: »

Good afternoon all,
My role in work has recently escalated and I am now in a management position with no real management training. I need to do a course and pronto. Can anyone recommend an intensive management course they may have completed?
Thank you for your replies in advance,
Niamh

I'm doing a Business Management degree by night in Cork IT; not intensive but being modular you can spread it over a number of years at your pace; it also leads to an MBA if you like - maybe there's something like that in your locale? IMI seem to do intensive courses which may be more a match for what you're looking for. Good luck.

niamh4626

Hi all,
Thank you for all the replies.
Basically I'm looking for a course what gives guidance on how to be a effective manager of people, how best to delegate, how to overcome the transition from level colleague to manager, how to gain respect, how to be the best I can be to encourage my staff and to achieve the best result for the company. I'm not sure I want to undertake a long course to be honest. I have been considering this course - has anyone experience with these guys or can anyone recommend a similar course they have had experience of: http://www.professionaldevelopment.ie/brochures/managing-people-QQI-level-6.pdf
I found the 'Who's got the Monday?' article very good infact so thanks Ishtotjr2 for sending that on. I now need to start implementing it!

ironclaw

niamh4626 wrote: »

I'm looking for a course what gives guidance on how to be a effective manager of people, how best to delegate, how to overcome the transition from level colleague to manager, how to gain respect, how to be the best I can be to encourage my staff and to achieve the best result for the company.

Speaking personally, I don't believe any course can teach you that. A good manager comes from within. Nature versus nurture etc. A course can give you the tools for the logical and real-world side of things e.g. Financial, ratios, efficiency, HRM theory etc. But it can't tell you how to deal with John who has no interest in pursuing the team goals or how Mary is always late and needs to be called up on it. The worst managers I've ever had are people who just stayed around in the company the longest or fell into the position based on seniority when an opportunity arose. Its a false idea and a dinosaur theory to promote purely based on age. Some of the best managers I've had just had it in them or had the background to support it (Good with people, caring but not a walk over, good listener etc) Those are skills you can't learn in a course.

I'm not saying its not in you however, I just wouldn't go into any course and expect to come out 'a manager' It doesn't work like that. Did you previous role have much teamwork? Were you a lead before hand? I'd focus on these skills and then attend some CPD courses. I would however strongly consider doing a 'long' course, it will stand to you far more in the long run.

Duckett

interesting advice here - not an answer to the OP but food for thought

http://www.mckinsey.com/global-themes/leadership/want-to-be-a-better-leader-observe-more-and-react-less?cid=other-eml-nsl-mip-mck-oth-1603

BreadnBuddha

ironclaw wrote: »

Speaking personally, I don't believe any course can teach you that. A good manager comes from within. Nature versus nurture etc. A course can give you the tools for the logical and real-world side of things e.g. Financial, ratios, efficiency, HRM theory etc. But it can't tell you how to deal with John who has no interest in pursuing the team goals or how Mary is always late and needs to be called up on it. The worst managers I've ever had are people who just stayed around in the company the longest or fell into the position based on seniority when an opportunity arose. Its a false idea and a dinosaur theory to promote purely based on age. Some of the best managers I've had just had it in them or had the background to support it (Good with people, caring but not a walk over, good listener etc) Those are skills you can't learn in a course.

I'm not saying its not in you however, I just wouldn't go into any course and expect to come out 'a manager' It doesn't work like that. Did you previous role have much teamwork? Were you a lead before hand? I'd focus on these skills and then attend some CPD courses. I would however strongly consider doing a 'long' course, it will stand to you far more in the long run.

I'm broadly in agreement with you, but you're mixing management and leadership an awful lot when they're not one and the same.

A person can be an outstanding manager, given the right processes and 'tools' to manage. They may well be a desperate manager. The same is true of a 'natural born leader'. Many are capable leaders but terrible business managers.

Taking a few courses, observing those who are very effective or having a mentor, these are very sensible steps to develop her own abilities to lead, manage or do both.

ishotjr2

A little off topic, however if any of you are involved in software management and maybe some other fields I suggest it is worth 10 minutes of your time to look at Cynefin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynefin_Framework
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7oz366X0-8

I use it only to figure out if I have the right people in a room to make a decision.

v638sg7k1a92bx

ishotjr2 wrote: »

Have a read over this, might help a little.

https://hbr.org/1999/11/management-time-whos-got-the-monkey
Editor’s Note: This article was originally published in the November–December 1974 issue of HBR and has been one of the publication’s two best-selling reprints ever.

Do you know what the other best selling print is?

BnB

niamh4626 wrote: »

Hi all,
Thank you for all the replies.
Basically I'm looking for a course what gives guidance on how to be a effective manager of people, how best to delegate, how to overcome the transition from level colleague to manager, how to gain respect, how to be the best I can be to encourage my staff and to achieve the best result for the company. I'm not sure I want to undertake a long course to be honest. I have been considering this course - has anyone experience with these guys or can anyone recommend a similar course they have had experience of: http://www.professionaldevelopment.ie/brochures/managing-people-QQI-level-6.pdf
I found the 'Who's got the Monday?' article very good infact so thanks Ishtotjr2 for sending that on. I now need to start implementing it!

Hi

2 different people in my organisation who had similar requirements as you have outlined above completed the course below (separately and both said they found it excellent and recommended it to me. I have never done it myself or don't know anything about the company but I just remembered the recommendation when I saw your thread and said I would pass it on

https://dcmlearning.ie/as/userfiles/images/courses/PDF%20Brochures/QQI%20Level%206%20Effective%20People%20Management%20Course%20Brochure.pdf

v638sg7k1a92bx

BnB wrote: »

Hi

2 different people in my organisation who had similar requirements as you have outlined above completed the course below (separately and both said they found it excellent and recommended it to me. I have never done it myself or don't know anything about the company but I just remembered the recommendation when I saw your thread and said I would pass it on

https://dcmlearning.ie/as/userfiles/images/courses/PDF%20Brochures/QQI%20Level%206%20Effective%20People%20Management%20Course%20Brochure.pdf

How much is the course?

BnB

Nathanael Panicky River wrote: »

How much is the course?

It was €495 last August. Looking at the website now though, I am not sure they do it any more but if you were interested you could just reach out to them and ask them.

antoinolachtnai

For anyone, if you want the business aspects of being a manager and don't have a financial background, I would recommend that you do a financial course, likely one leading to the ACCA Diploma in Financial Management or similar. Finance is very much the 'language' of business. (Your industry will also have its own 'language', but finance is the 'language' that is common to all businesses and really all organizations.) You can bluff your way along without knowing too much about accounting and finance, but life is a lot easier if you do.

The OP mentioned very specific things that they want to learn which maybe could be called 'soft' skills. They are no less important for that of course. It is good that the OP has recognised these gaps and wants to address them.

I would say there are two aspects to this. Firstly, you have to have good confidence in the 'hard' skills. Technical knowledge and skills brings a degree of status, and that is important for a manager. That is why I would still suggest a financial course or maybe some course relevant to your industry with a fairly 'hard' or technical core.

The second thing is that you need some sort of mentors or advisors, either inside or outside your company and ideally one inside and one outside. (In a way this comes to the point of the difference between managing and leading, and the complicated balance this entails.)

The problem with the all the above is that it is going to require significant amounts of time and money.

By the sounds of it, the organization has left the OP a bit high and dry in that it's given out the title and hopefully the pay rise of being a manager but it hasn't actually made sure that the OP gets the skills and support he/she needs to actually be that manager.

So the OP's first real exercise as a manager in his/herorganization, is really to figure out how to allocate the resources needed to turn him/her into a productive manager, whilst continuing to do what is perceived to be his/her 'job'.

He/she is doing well in that he/she has at least identified yourself that there is a gap.

I honestly do not envy the OP this. Transforming yourself into a productive manager is quite a difficult thing to do even with a lot of support.

All I can say is to set aside time, do as much reading/online courses as possible, and as much thinking as possible to figure out how to approach this first exercise.

MrMiata

I'm currently a business student.

I don't know if you are but if you are, don't bother going back to college for it.
The only reasonable justification I can see for getting a degree in business is to get a job in the first place, so unless you're going back to college on the company's dime, don't bother.

I'd honestly just read books, 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey, The Essential Drucker by Peter Drucker (he's father of modern management).
You obviously show some aptitude (or maybe they're really stuck!), best way to learn how to management people is just by managing people.

ironclaw

MrMiata wrote: »

I'm currently a business student.

I don't know if you are but if you are, don't bother going back to college for it.
The only reasonable justification I can see for getting a degree in business is to get a job in the first place, so unless you're going back to college on the company's dime, don't bother.

I'd honestly just read books, 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey, The Essential Drucker by Peter Drucker (he's father of modern management).
You obviously show some aptitude (or maybe they're really stuck!), best way to learn how to management people is just by managing people.

Whilst I tend to agree with you, most courses cover topics that are useful as you start to climb the ranks. Basics of finance, corporate structure, HR etc. These are much harder to learn in an ad-hoc / self directed manner and a lot of management books are US-focused, which has a very different culture to Europe.

Maybe not a full degree but I would take CPD courses on these topics, they do stand to you.

MrMiata

ironclaw wrote: »

Whilst I tend to agree with you, most courses cover topics that are useful as you start to climb the ranks. Basics of finance, corporate structure, HR etc. These are much harder to learn in an ad-hoc / self directed manner and a lot of management books are US-focused, which has a very different culture to Europe.

Maybe not a full degree but I would take CPD courses on these topics, they do stand to you.

I agree, but specifically business management related degrees are largely useless.
Accounting is the most worthwhile in my opinion..
HR was fairly basic, the only useful tid-bits were just added in by the lecturer when talking about her industry experience.
Same goes for marketing, I can't count how many times she said 'oh yeah that's fairly outdated.. no one really uses that anymore', and of course it was still on our exam.
Again agreed, CPD courses will stand to you (OP), I'd still feel that learning by doing is the best way to learn how to be a manager, but then again, what do I know!