GAA Congress

Coillte_Bhoy

nice_guy80 wrote: »

But you're not from a weaker county! So stop demeaning them

Smaller counties want to play against the bigger teams.
The likes of Longford and Leitrim want to be playing Kerry and Dublin
So what if they lose? give them the chance to play, the kids and public in those counties to see the top players and the players in those counties to match themselves against the top players and raise their game
Its the only way standards will improve. Playing the same standard of counties all the time won't do anything for standards!

What does this even mean really? How do you quantify it? We're never going to reach a stage where everyone ison the same level, sport doesnt work like that. How does prolonging the present system raise standards for lesser teams and more pertinently why should that be some sort of benchmark for a cship structure?

Coillte_Bhoy

harpsman wrote: »

The relegation works by relegating the same number of teams that get promoted.
As for the wrong team getting relegated in the unlikely event of Dublin getting into bother Im sure they'll think of a reason to dock someone else points to keep Dublin up. Remember "the GAA needs a strong Dublin" apparently. Even though I seem to remember the Leinster championship being alot more enjoyable when Dublin weren't so strong. Speaking of which I see they've Dublin pencilled in for 2 games at Croke Park for the super 8s. I thought Duffy had sold it as one home,one away and one neutral venue for everyone.

Was sold as one home, one away and one Croke Park for everyone

Dots1982

Worth remembering that clubs that are graded as Junior often lose their best/county players to the big fish.

Maybe teams shouldn't be allowed to play each other if there is such a big skill gap but anyone who doesn't see the drawbacks is foolish.

Dots1982

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Was sold as one home, one away and one Croke Park for everyone

except Dublin who have 2 home, The president said this.

Coillte_Bhoy

Dots1982 wrote: »

Worth remembering that clubs that are graded as Junior often lose their best/county players to the big fish.

Maybe teams shouldn't be allowed to play each other if there is such a big skill gap but anyone who doesn't see the drawbacks is foolish.

So, a good footballer stuck with a weaker county wants to play regularly at a higher level rather than be on the end of one hammering every year? As long as its within the current transfer system i dont see the issue. i doubt too many players are sticking with their county solely for the chance of maybe one big game every few years.

Coillte_Bhoy

Dots1982 wrote: »

except Dublin who have 2 home, The president said this.

Well obviously they will but the proposal specifically mentioned one game in Croke Park for each county, just so happens Dublin will be at home for 2 games. It's a non issue imo. What if someone like Leitrim happened to make it through, and the draw paired them with Dublin at a 'neutral venue', should they lose out on their big day in Croker?

Dots1982

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

So, a good footballer stuck with a weaker county wants to play regularly at a higher level rather than be on the end of one hammering every year? As long as its within the current transfer system i dont see the issue. i doubt too many players are sticking with their county solely for the chance of maybe one big game every few years.

You see no issue with players leaving a weak team to go to a good team thereby rendering the weak team even weaker?

OldMrBrennan83

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harpsman

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Well obviously they will but the proposal specifically mentioned one game in Croke Park for each county, just so happens Dublin will be at home for 2 games. It's a non issue imo. What if someone like Leitrim happened to make it through, and the draw paired them with Dublin at a 'neutral venue', should they lose out on their big day in Croker?

In the very unlikely event of Leitrim qualifying for the last 8, being in Dublins group, and getting drawn to play Dublin at a neutral venue I dont think theyd mind too much. But hey if it s a problem for them they can move the game to Croke Park. Nothing to stop them doing that.

It basically comes to Dublin having 2 home games and one of the other teams in the group having 2 away games which seems pretty unfair to me.
Heres a fixture list for a possible group from last year which seems more fair to me.

How about

Tyrone h V Dublin a Omagh
Tipp h V Kerry a Thurles

Kerry h V Tyrone a Killarney
Dublin h V Tipp a Croke Park

Tyrone v Tipp n Croke Park
Dublin V Kerry n Thurles

Coillte_Bhoy

Dots1982 wrote: »

You see no issue with players leaving a weak team to go to a good team thereby rendering the weak team even weaker?

But there is nothing to stop them doing that now if they meet the criteria for transfer

Coillte_Bhoy

harpsman wrote: »

In the very unlikely event of Leitrim qualifying for the last 8, being in Dublins group, and getting drawn to play Dublin at a neutral venue I dont think theyd mind too much. But hey if it s a problem for them they can move the game to Croke Park. Nothing to stop them doing that.

It basically comes to Dublin having 2 home games and one of the other teams in the group having 2 away games which seems pretty unfair to me.
Heres a fixture list for a possible group from last year which seems more fair to me.

How about

Tyrone h V Dublin a Omagh
Tipp h V Kerry a Thurles

Kerry h V Tyrone a Killarney
Dublin h V Tipp a Croke Park

Tyrone v Tipp n Croke Park
Dublin V Kerry n Thurles

Not ideal but it's a bit fairer than the present system where they have all their big games at home. Again the issue of the Dubs at home twice is a red herring imo from people opposed to the proposals.

dttumpp

Dots1982 wrote: »

Worth remembering that clubs that are graded as Junior often lose their best/county players to the big fish.

Maybe teams shouldn't be allowed to play each other if there is such a big skill gap but anyone who doesn't see the drawbacks is foolish.

You see it in some cases, using the word often is very extreme. I would say 90% of top county players playing with a junior club have stayed loyal to their club.

dttumpp

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Not ideal but it's a bit fairer than the present system where they have all their big games at home. Again the issue of the Dubs at home twice is a red herring imo from people opposed to the proposals.

Maybe fairer that what is there but why can't we have a proper fair system. Surely can't be too hard to move one game out of Croke Park.

StupidLikeAFox

I really hope the players don't go on strike about this. Its a novel format, they left it really late to raise any objections despite this format being published last September, and their list of objections are pretty shallow.

1. The lack of sufficient and meaningful consultation with players regarding all aspects of the proposal.

This isn't really a problem with the format itself. Just the process. Not much you can say about that, although their has been reports that the GPA were in on meetings and didnt contribute much.

• The fact that the proposals offer little by way of change for lower ranked counties who are traditionally less successful than those competing at the latter stages of the championship.
• The motivational impact for players competing at the lower end of the Championship which may be negatively impacted leading to concerns about the longer term sustainability of the football championship.
• The fact that the proposed format will do little to alleviate the increasing gap between higher and lower ranked counties.

Kind of the same points being made here about weaker teams. As has been pointed out before, I don't think a championship structure is the place for bridging the gap between the strong and weak teams. Each team needs to have equality of opportunity, which you can ensure by levelling the playing field in terms of resources, facilities etc. Theres a huge argument to be made for this. But its nothing to do with the championship structure.

• The reality that there will be no incentive for provincial winners over other teams who qualify for the quarter-final stage. Provincial winners would now have to play an additional three games in order to reach the semi-final.

Well there is the incentive of winning your provincial championship? They will also have to play one less game than a provincial loser, and all teams will have to play an additional 3 games in order to reach the semi final, so that last bit is irrelevant.



Also, for what its worth, I came across this article from last August where Dermot Earley cautiously welcomed the new proposals and had been looking at bringing their own proposal to congress - wonder what went wrong in the meantime?

Earley can see a lot of pluses to the Duffy proposal while hinting weaker counties require more matches. “I’m delighted to see that the GAA has put one out there. It is quite a good structure. You’re going to make an All-Ireland series, a group stage. It should be very exciting."
....
"And we will look at a proposal. We will present another proposal to Congress. When you take in everything that has been put before us and everything that is said, hopefully we can find something that is right. If we don’t find it, maybe we can combine with others and get the best"

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dermot-earley-gpa-planning-new-championship-structure-416623.html

Coillte_Bhoy

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

I really hope the players don't go on strike about this. Its a novel format, they left it really late to raise any objections despite this format being published last September, and their list of objections are pretty shallow.

1. The lack of sufficient and meaningful consultation with players regarding all aspects of the proposal.[

/QUOTE]
This isn't really a problem with the format itself. Just the process. Not much you can say about that, although their has been reports that the GPA were in on meetings and didnt contribute much.


Kind of the same points being made here about weaker teams. As has been pointed out before, I don't think a championship structure is the place for bridging the gap between the strong and weak teams. Each team needs to have equality of opportunity, which you can ensure by levelling the playing field in terms of resources, facilities etc. Theres a huge argument to be made for this. But its nothing to do with the championship structure.


Well there is the incentive of winning your provincial championship? They will also have to play one less game than a provincial loser, and all teams will have to play an additional 3 games in order to reach the semi final, so that last bit is irrelevant.



Also, for what its worth, I came across this article from last August where Dermot Earley cautiously welcomed the new proposals and had been looking at bringing their own proposal to congress - wonder what went wrong in the meantime?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/dermot-earley-gpa-planning-new-championship-structure-416623.html

Winning a Prov Cship means only having to face 1 other prov champions in the group stages as opposed to meeting 2

nice_guy80

most county players don't change club
look at all the junior club players who play senior football in Kerry
they might do in Dublin
but sure some Dublin clubs buy in players from outside the county already

MayoAreMagic

Dots1982 wrote: »

except Dublin who have 2 home, The president said this.

In fairness, with 8 extra games, it wouldn't kill the gaa to put Dublin's neutral game in an actual neutral venue. Considering it is now effectively 3 quarter finals instead of one, it is seriously doubtful that they would have a full house for it anyway... Say if Dublin won their first two games for example, the third one would be a dead rubber...

OldMrBrennan83

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harpsman

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Was sold as one home, one away and one Croke Park for everyone

Fair enough. Still not fair. Why not take the Dubs to Thurles or Clones for the 3rd game. Apparently they love a day down de country anyway

harpsman

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Not ideal but it's a bit fairer than the present system where they have all their big games at home. Again the issue of the Dubs at home twice is a red herring imo from people opposed to the proposals.

I'm overall in favour of the proposals even though I don't think the AIQFs were the problem w championship. Still we'll get 12 games between the top 8 teams in July and August which can't see why people would be against.

Re strike action i hear the Wicklow manager was threatening strike the other day. What exactly was his problem? This proposal does nothing for the weaker counties. What exactly do weaker counties want?

Coillte_Bhoy

harpsman wrote: »

Fair enough. Still not fair. Why not take the Dubs to Thurles or Clones for the 3rd game. Apparently they love a day down de country anyway

afaik the first round of games will be in Croke Park so i suppose they want certainty etc, will be a massive marketing campaign im sure focussing on 4 big days out in Croker to start the Super 8. Anyway as i said its a complete red herring imo.

ArmaniJeanss

Re each teams guaranteed Home roundrobin game, has the issue of minimum capacity been raised, or will for example Louth get a home game in their 6K ground regardless.
Even for bigger county grounds (say in the 20K range) is there not an issue with season tickets and the numbers that Dublin need.

Fr Tod Umptious

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Re each teams guaranteed Home roundrobin game, has the issue of minimum capacity been raised, or will for example Louth get a home game in their 6K ground regardless.
Even for bigger county grounds (say in the 20K range) is there not an issue with season tickets and the numbers that Dublin need.

It would work the same way as it currently does I'd say.

For example Sligo play a "home" Connacht final in Castlebar, Roscommon or Galway depending on the circumstances

OldMrBrennan83

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harpsman

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Why bother when you can bundle the ref in the booth of a car if you don't like a decision:P. Seriously though, there is alot of whinging for the sake of it about the changes to the championship.