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Article: Landlords can no longer refuse rent supplement tenants

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124

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    #92
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    The Raptor wrote: »
    This is what I'm afraid of. How are low paid workers who don't get any help in paying rent meant to pay this? Its quite alot.

    Assuming it becomes the norm and there is a functioning and quick deposit dispute system it actually makes no odds apart from making it slightly more difficult to move out of Mammy's.

    If you pay the last month's rent upfront, you're simply not paying it at the end meaning you have more at the end to move to the new place.


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    #93
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Whats to stop a landlord just renting to whomever he/she wants to?

    For example 2 potential tenants one of whom has rent allowance. He picks the other one.

    How could there be an issue?


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    #94
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    Whats to stop a landlord just renting to whomever he/she wants to?

    For example 2 potential tenants one of whom has rent allowance. He picks the other one.

    How could there be an issue?

    Most people, and this is borne out in job interviews where the interviewer asks a question which could land them in trouble, are incredibly stupid.


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    #95
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    the_syco wrote: »


    "Hotel accommodation" is usually a homeless shelter that was a hotel before the council took over it. Of course the latter bit gets in the way of a good story, so won't get mentioned.

    Actually that's not true hotel accommodation means exactly that hotels ,

    I know here in tallaght current hotels housing family's .

    Citywest hotel.

    Maldon tallaght .

    Maldon Newlands cross they have a fair few


    Glas house hotel .

    And several other within distance of the m50


    Hotels do mean hotels not hostels your told now to when you present homeless to go find a hotel and check in and the local authority will pay for it
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #96
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,995 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    the_syco wrote: »
    The PTRB is only for suing the big bad landlord. Have never heard of a landlord getting the cash off someone who has destroyed their house.

    I have. It took 2 years and ended up as a wage garnish of 100 euros a week. It was for roughly 35k in damages, with a large sum in court fees. The individual left the country 6 months later.

    There is a serious flaw in our legal system with recovering losses. Most self employed individuals would tell you that. Housing, with the PRTB, just makes that process more convoluted.

    I know a few property managers and none would rent to a RA tenant.


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    #97
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Bob24 wrote: »
    beauf wrote: »
    For the LL there is only a financial aspect. Its not a replacement for true social housing, that the govt is using it for. The LL can't fund social housing.

    Because the only aspect for the landlord is financial doesn't mean a crap landlord can't screw a good tenant in other ways than financial ones though. That was my only point and I get that a landlord is not providing a public service (I am one myself in another country and a tenant here).

    You only seem to be looking at things from a landlord's perspective when you consider who can screw whom in the landlord/tenant relashionship. Something like getting evicted for no reason with no proper notice and not knowing where to put your things is probably more emotionally difficult than losing a few grands (which on the other hand can itself be more annoying in the long term if you have to keep chasing the tenant and engage in legal proceedings). Don't know which on is worst but both are crap.
    Add your reply here.

    It appears you think the LL can afford to lose "a few grand" ... I tell you most people cant


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    #98
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    The Raptor wrote: »
    Aka Ishur wrote: »
    First and last month rent up front plus one month deposit is going to become the norm awfully fast.

    This is what I'm afraid of. How are low paid workers who don't get any help in paying rent meant to pay this? Its quite alot.
    Add your reply here.


    It is. But when you look at the cost to LL of poor tenants you can see why it is needed. It only takes on bad tenant and the LL is doomed


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    #99
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Add your reply here.

    It appears you think the LL can afford to lose "a few grand" ... I tell you most people cant

    I definitely realise that, just saying a tenant's life can also be impacted by bad regulation and the financial aspect is not the only one. I.e. saying the regulation is worse for landlords than it is for tenants doesn't seem quite right to me.

    It is a bit too easy to be saying "being a landlord is just about money and not providing a public service" (which I definitely agree with) and at the same time to expect that business to be have zero risk.

    Every business will be facing bad payers and get caught in lengthy and uncertain legal proceedings to recover debts. Someone who invests in an asset worth several hundred thousands euros and doesn't have a few thousands euros in cash reserves to survive a bad period is a reckless investor to me. I am a landlord myself and would never have taken that type of risk ... my mortgage and cash reserves are such that I can easily afford to survive for over 2 years even if I lose my job and don't get any rent in at the same time. This meant buying a modest investment property in a smallish European town rather than a fancy appartement in Dublin.

    I know we have "accidental landlords" as well, but accidental or not being a landlord still is a business and the social aspect is separate (and to be honest in most cases if the bank allowed/pushed for this type of situation, they are unlikely to push for a repossession if the mortgage doesn't come in for a few months as it probably isn't in their interest).

    Don't get me wrong and I'm not saying landlords have it easy - but if people look at how good or bad regulation is just based on their own perspective they won't get a balanced opinion.


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    #100
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Bob24 wrote: »
    ...saying the regulation is worse for landlords than it is for tenants doesn't seem quite right to me.... - but if people look at how good or bad regulation is just based on their own perspective they won't get a balanced opinion.

    Its got nothing to do with "seem" or "opinion" or "perspective".

    There's simply more protection for the tenant than the LL. The LL is exposed to major losses. To the point that its not a viable business. bother with it.

    Its also irrelevant to compare it with another country as the issue is with the legal system here, and the shortage of social housing in this country. You having a property in another country is a zero benefit to the RA tenant in this country.
    Bob24 wrote: »
    I...his meant buying a modest investment property in a smallish European town rather than a fancy appartement in Dublin...

    Basically you've decided being a LL is not a viable business in this country.


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    #101
    The Raptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭The Raptor


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Add your reply here.


    It is. But when you look at the cost to LL of poor tenants you can see why it is needed. It only takes on bad tenant and the LL is doomed


    Not all low paid workers are bad tenants.


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    #102
    The Raptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭The Raptor


    I remember reading a thing here a few months ago that a man crapped all over his apartment and he had a good paying job.



    What are landlords going to do, demand to pay up two months in advance and a deposit so bad tenants like the above can pay rent. But then someone who is low paid, can't barely afford the initial cost but are good people and don't want to be out there shafting landlords.


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    #103
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    The Raptor wrote: »
    ...But then someone who is low paid, can't barely afford the initial cost but are good people and don't want to be out there shafting landlords.

    They need social housing. The Govt need to provide it.


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    #104
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    The Raptor wrote: »
    handlemaster wrote: »
    Add your reply here.


    It is. But when you look at the cost to LL of poor tenants you can see why it is needed. It only takes on bad tenant and the LL is doomed


    Not all low paid workers are bad tenants.
    Add your reply here.


    Didnt say they were ... Or were you just expressing your own opinion


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    #105
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    The Raptor wrote: »
    I remember reading a thing here a few months ago that a man crapped all over his apartment and he had a good paying job.



    What are landlords going to do, demand to pay up two months in advance and a deposit so bad tenants like the above can pay rent. But then someone who is low paid, can't barely afford the initial cost but are good people and don't want to be out there shafting landlords.
    Add your reply here.

    The LL can demand what they want. When its your own property you do what you think is right. Low paid workers or social welfare tenants when they hit that inevitable life bump in the road dont have much savings or willingness in my experience to pay rent in full.


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    #106
    The Raptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭The Raptor


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Add your reply here.

    The LL can demand what they want. When its your own property you do what you think is right. Low paid workers or social welfare tenants when they hit that inevitable life bump in the road dont have much savings or willingness in my experience to pay rent in full.

    Thats absolutely bull.

    I don't know about social welfare tenants but I would be embarrassed not to pay what I owe, my rent and my bills.


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    #107
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    The thread is not about low paid tenants. It's about RA.


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    #108
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    The Raptor wrote: »
    Thats absolutely bull.

    I don't know about social welfare tenants but I would be embarrassed not to pay what I owe, my rent and my bills.



    Thats you ... LL s rent to a large number of people and if they rent to SW or low paid tenants this issue will come up. none payment is a real issue. Believe me there are lots of people who have absolutely no shame in not paying and will blame the LL for not doing so.


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    #109
    Greenmachine
    Registered Users Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭Greenmachine


    This won't make a blind bit of different, there are feck all places anywhere within the rent allowance limits anyways. It is also a requirement for all properties for sale/rent to have their BER rating provided in the ad. You will find more ads without ber cert than with, especially in the rental market.


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    #110
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Greenmachine wrote: »
    This won't make a blind bit of different, there are feck all places anywhere within the rent allowance limits anyways. It is also a requirement for all properties for sale/rent to have their BER rating provided in the ad. You will find more ads without ber cert than with, especially in the rental market.


    The Ber cert is a whole different subject.

    Again it's not specific to RA other than if it effects supply.


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    #111
    get a room
    Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭get a room


    There is another point which should be considered. Rent allowance can take a couple of months to be processed. Who is going to rent to someone who does not have the money up front?


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    #112
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    get a room wrote: »
    There is another point which should be considered. Rent allowance can take a couple of months to be processed.

    Not usually no
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #113
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    The solution is to create supply. If there's sufficient supply the stupid pricing will fall and landlords won't have the option of only chosing the cream of the crop tenants. Housing supply takes a long time to develop though as everyone knows so its something we as a nation need to push now.


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    #114
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    ED E wrote: »
    The solution is to create supply. If there's sufficient supply the stupid pricing will fall and landlords won't have the option of only chosing the cream of the crop tenants. Housing supply takes a long time to develop though as everyone knows so its something we as a nation need to push now.

    Yes, but it needs to be build correctly too. Giving planning permissions left and right without any bigger picture causes urban sprawl and soulless estates. This puts additional pressure on infrastructure, increases commute times and overall ruins quality of life...

    Where are schools, where are kindergartens, green areas, where are corner shops, barbers etc?


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    #115
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Oh I agree, if ABP weren't so ineffective as is I'd say centralize all applications, take it out of the hands of CoCos.

    A few well placed and well built apartment blocks in Dublin would go a long way to getting the market back in shape.


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    #116
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    ED E wrote: »
    Oh I agree, if ABP weren't so ineffective as is I'd say centralize all applications, take it out of the hands of CoCos.

    A few well placed and well built apartment blocks in Dublin would go a long way to getting the market back in shape.

    Didn't they try that model of building apartment blocks for social housing in the 60's?, the Ballymun tower blocks, is that what you want again?


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    #117
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    davo10 wrote: »
    Didn't they try that model of building apartment blocks for social housing in the 60's?, the Ballymun tower blocks, is that what you want again?
    I think well placed and well built were the key words there!


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    #118
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    TheChizler wrote: »
    I think well placed and well built were the key words there!

    Well built and well placed would cost a lot of money, are you asking the Government to outbid a private investor, spend a considerable amount on building and then give it away for social/affordable housing? That'll be the day.

    The closest they have ever and will ever get to this would be to use the land banks currently owned by NAMA for social housing but those sites are being sold off to large investors.


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    #119
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,310 ✭✭✭markpb


    ED E wrote: »
    Oh I agree, if ABP weren't so ineffective as is I'd say centralize all applications, take it out of the hands of CoCos.

    If that happened, people would complain about an unelected quango making decisions about where people can and can't live (live = build in peoples minds).


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    #120
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    This thread has gone miles off topic. Please stick to the subject if posting on this thread. Thanks

    Mod


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    #121
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Butters1979 wrote: »
    The way i read this is landlords can no longer say it's because of rent allowance. But a LL does not have to tell you why they don't want to let the place to you. As far as I'm concerned anyone should be allowed to chose exactly who they let live in their property.

    The rental market is not a public service. It's private enterprise.

    Agreed that a LL should be able to chose who they let live in their house, but descriminating based on income, even if the tenants can afford the rent, is somewhat draconic.

    Are there any real reasons why landlords don't accept RA?


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