UFC 196: McGregor v Diaz

Gamebred

Going up 12kg 8 or 9 weeks is just not viable for the body,its not an excuse for him losing but its a contributing factor without a doubt,if you compare the gaps between divisions in boxing its night and day you have guys who wont go up 3 or 4lb,Ronda wouldnt go up 5lb for a fight with Cyborg,


Also on his training by the time it was changed to Diaz he was in the U.S already doing movement stuff with Ido Portal no sparring,so he couldnt of prepared to fight a tall southpaw,yes RDA was a southpaw but not in the same mould as Nate,Nate had plenty of reasons why he shouldnt of won and pulled it off so all respect but thats my view on the contributing factor to Conors demise.

ceecee14

So Conor cuts weight to fight guys smaller than him and its no good because there midgets, but Nate cuts weight to fight midgets and he's a great warrior.. Conor only had an inch or 3 on his opponents, Nate has the same advantage over most of the light weight division

Besides Chad an Siever who are about 4 or 5 inches smaller.

JustShon

Been lurking this thread for a while now, but just want to point out how amusing it is that people are still voting "Diaz by sub" in the poll.

Gamebred

ceecee14 wrote: »

So Conor cuts weight to fight guys smaller than him and its no good because there midgets, but Nate cuts weight to fight midgets and he's a great warrior.. Conor only had an inch or 3 on his opponents, Nate has the same advantage over most of the light weight division

Conor McGregor is 5'9.

There are 23 fighters standing at 5'10 or above in FW: 32%
There are 13 fighters standing at 5'9: 18%
There are 17 fighters standing at 5'8: 24%
There are 14 fighters standing at 5'7: 19%
There are 5 fighters standing at 5'6: 7%

Average height: 5'9

1/2 of the FW roster is either the same height as Conor or taller.
1/3 of the FW roster is taller than Conor.
1/4 of the FW roster is only 1" shorter than him.



They are the facts,half of the division is the same height or bigger



Look forward to his reply.

ceecee14

Gamebred wrote:

Conor McGregor is 5'9.

Gamebred wrote:

There are 23 fighters standing at 5'10 or above in FW: 32% There are 13 fighters standing at 5'9: 18% There are 17 fighters standing at 5'8: 24% There are 14 fighters standing at 5'7: 19% There are 5 fighters standing at 5'6: 7%

Gamebred wrote:

Average height: 5'9

Gamebred wrote:

1/2 of the FW roster is either the same height as Conor or taller. 1/3 of the FW roster is taller than Conor. 1/4 of the FW roster is only 1" shorter than him.

Gamebred wrote:

Conor McGregor is 5'9.

Gamebred wrote:

There are 23 fighters standing at 5'10 or above in FW: 32% There are 13 fighters standing at 5'9: 18% There are 17 fighters standing at 5'8: 24% There are 14 fighters standing at 5'7: 19% There are 5 fighters standing at 5'6: 7%

Gamebred wrote:

Average height: 5'9

Gamebred wrote:

1/2 of the FW roster is either the same height as Conor or taller. 1/3 of the FW roster is taller than Conor. 1/4 of the FW roster is only 1" shorter than him.

Gamebred wrote:

They are the facts,half of the division is the same height or bigger

Gamebred wrote:

Look forward to his reply.

This, exactly. And Nate is probably one of if not the biggest lightweight.

pudzey101

Conor put Ireland on the MMA map , dont know why everyone is so against him , he lost fair enough but he'l learn from this loss and continue to grow on it , Aldo moved up to lightweight and got submitted back in 2005 , and he was claimed to be the number 1 fighter on the planet until conor bet him .

jigglypuffstuff

Gamebred wrote: »

Conor McGregor is 5'9.

There are 23 fighters standing at 5'10 or above in FW: 32%
There are 13 fighters standing at 5'9: 18%
There are 17 fighters standing at 5'8: 24%
There are 14 fighters standing at 5'7: 19%
There are 5 fighters standing at 5'6: 7%

Average height: 5'9

1/2 of the FW roster is either the same height as Conor or taller.
1/3 of the FW roster is taller than Conor.
1/4 of the FW roster is only 1" shorter than him.



They are the facts,half of the division is the same height or bigger



Look forward to his reply.

Look at McGregors last few fights in the 145

Vs Brandao = 5in reach adv plus 2in height
Vs Porier = 2in reach adv plus 0in height
Vs Siver = 7in reach adv plus 2.5in height
Vs Mendes = 8in reach adv plus 3in height
Vs Aldo = 4in reach adv plus 3in height

Height and reach advantage in 4/5 fights

considering half the division is taller than him and his last 4/5 fights he fought people smaller than him...and as you stated 25% of the division is smaller than him... well 25% of 23 is 5.75.......but taking Conor out and recalculating for 22 = 5.5 .......so out of 5.5 fighters (hypothetically, obviously there's no such thing as a half fighter) he's fought 4

My original point in tandem with killing himself cutting weight..he belongs at 155...he's bullying the division because of his size....its fairly obvious when you look at the facts....take Conor's knock-out power out of the equation...and you get exactly what happened Saturday night

T-K-O

glasso wrote: »

What pretentiousness!

Were a lot of people on this forum also into Arcade fire before they were famous?

From what I can see making some error on a point of mma history is to be encouraged on this thread as it gives the McGregor cock-jockeys the moment to jump all over them with a dismissive comment.

Calm down.

No idea who you are talking about there, it most certainly is not me.

I visit two/three forums on boards and contribute accordingly. I dont jump into forum X and try tell people white is black.

I just find it strange, that's all.


p.s I was at Arcade Fire in the Phoenix park years back.. excellent gig.

Gamebred

pone2012 wrote: »

Look at McGregors last few fights in the 145

Vs Brandao = 5in reach adv plus 2in height
Vs Porier = 2in reach adv plus 0in height
Vs Siver = 7in reach adv plus 2.5in height
Vs Mendes = 8in reach adv plus 3in height
Vs Aldo = 4in reach adv plus 3in height

Height and reach advantage in 4/5 fights

considering half the division is taller than him and his last 4/5 fights he fought people smaller than him...and as you stated 25% of the division is smaller than him... well 25% of 23 is 5.75.......but taking Conor out and recalculating for 22 = 5.5 .......so out of 5.5 fighters (hypothetically, obviously there's no such thing as a half fighter) he's fought 4

My original point in tandem with killing himself cutting weight..he belongs at 155...he's bullying the division because of his size....its fairly obvious when you look at the facts....take Conor's knock-out power out of the equation...and you get exactly what happened Saturday night

Absolute garbage talk,its like saying Jones is bullying DC with his reach and height advantage,look if you can make championship weight,rehydrate and still win thats fine,its not you or me who has to live with the consequences of his cuts in the future its his own body people cry too much about how he looks bad on the scales,you realise thats for 30 seconds and its back to hydrating?

He bullying nobody size and reach are not magic powers,you have to be able to use them,there is hundreds of people fighting in organisations all the time with these advantages but dont win,how was diaz's advantage against rda? didnt work,thatch v henderson another prime example.

T-K-O

Remember when Anthony Johnson fought at 170, he bullied the lot of them, knocking guys out cold.

Dtp1979

T-K-O wrote: »

Remember when Anthony Johnson fought at 170, he bullied the lot of them, knocking guys out cold.

Remember when Anthony Johnson fought at 205, he bullied a lot of them, knocking guys out cold

FollowMyWay

Gamebred wrote: »

Going up 12kg 8 or 9 weeks is just not viable for the body,its not an excuse for him losing but its a contributing factor without a doubt,if you compare the gaps between divisions in boxing its night and day you have guys who wont go up 3 or 4lb,Ronda wouldnt go up 5lb for a fight with Cyborg,

12KG is a bit of a push, yes 145 to 168 is that. But he was probably close to 70KG fighting Aldo, and 76KG against Nate. It's not a big a jump as you are stating but still a good bit of weight to put on. Close to half a kilo each week for 11 weeks. It's a bit more viable, but still would take some adjustment.

Chris.

glasso wrote: »

What pretentiousness!

Were a lot of people on this forum also into Arcade fire before they were famous?

From what I can see making some error on a point of mma history is to be encouraged on this thread as it gives the McGregor cock-jockeys the moment to jump all over them with a dismissive comment.

I could swear you non fans of Mc Gregor talk about him a lot more than his actual fans.

Gamebred

Anthony Johnsons couldnt make weight v beltfort got whooped,got strangled koscheck too if i remember correctly,the difference is Conor is winning at the weight,AJ couldnt.

T-K-O

Gamebred wrote: »

Anthony Johnsons couldnt make weight v beltfort got whooped,got strangled koscheck too if i remember correctly,the difference is Conor is winning at the weight,AJ couldnt.

I know! That was my point :pac: One does not simply cut weight and bully

Chris.

Gamebred wrote: »

Conor McGregor is 5'9.

There are 23 fighters standing at 5'10 or above in FW: 32%
There are 13 fighters standing at 5'9: 18%
There are 17 fighters standing at 5'8: 24%
There are 14 fighters standing at 5'7: 19%
There are 5 fighters standing at 5'6: 7%

Average height: 5'9

1/2 of the FW roster is either the same height as Conor or taller.
1/3 of the FW roster is taller than Conor.
1/4 of the FW roster is only 1" shorter than him.



They are the facts,half of the division is the same height or bigger



Look forward to his reply.

Another thing that these lads don't seem to realise is their irony. They don't like conor for his supposed arrogance and disrespect but have no problem calling the featherweight division midgets. Talk about showing the utmost disrespect to an entire division of very good fighters.

T-K-O

T-K-O wrote: »

Calm down.

No idea who you are talking about there, it most certainly is not me.

I visit two/three forums on boards and contribute accordingly. I dont jump into forum X and try tell people white is black.

I just find it strange, that's all.


p.s I was at Arcade Fire in the Phoenix park years back.. excellent gig.

not aimed at you specifically but have a read through a few pages to see evidence of the above.

phoenix park was '07 - it was all about Electric picnic '05

jigglypuffstuff

Gamebred wrote: »

Absolute garbage talk,its like saying Jones is bullying DC with his reach and height advantage,look if you can make championship weight,rehydrate and still win thats fine,its not you or me who has to live with the consequences of his cuts in the future its his own body people cry too much about how he looks bad on the scales,you realise thats for 30 seconds and its back to hydrating?

He bullying nobody size and reach are not magic powers,you have to be able to use them,there is hundreds of people fighting in organisations all the time with these advantages but dont win,how was diaz's advantage against rda? didnt work,thatch v henderson another prime example.

I'm probably more aware of dehydration and weight cuts than most..i never did MMA but I kickboxed for a long time and did many harsh cuts to make weight

the stats as above...he has had height and reach advantage in the last 4/5..and am I aware its not a game changer? Yes! Mendes damn near put McGregor away and he had 8 inches of a reach disadvantage....

Conor doesn't belong at 145 naturally, he's pushing harder than most FWs to get there... everyone including himself, his coach and team say it, particularly after the Aldo fight

And those claiming that he lost to Nate because of this and that is utter waffle..saying he could have done this better or performing post mortems should save it....he lost because Diaz is a better fighter...on every level...he couldn't stop the jabs, he couldn't hurt Nate, he even panicked and tried to go to ground with a black belt in BJJ...

To top it all off, he beat him without a camp, and after being ill...so even on his worst day he still owned McGregor!

Mellor

FollowMyWay wrote: »

12KG is a bit of a push, yes 145 to 168 is that. But he was probably close to 70KG fighting Aldo, and 76KG against Nate. It's not a big a jump as you are stating but still a good bit of weight to put on. Close to half a kilo each week for 11 weeks. It's a bit more viable, but still would take some adjustment.

He was definitely bigger than 70kg fighting Aldo. 70kg wouldn't be particular big for a FW imo.

Gamebred

pone2012 wrote: »

I'm probably more aware of dehydration and weight cuts than most..i never did MMA but I kickboxed for a long time and did many harsh cuts to make weight

the stats as above...he has had height and reach advantage in the last 4/5..and am I aware its not a game changer? Yes! Mendes damn near put McGregor away and he had 8 inches of a reach disadvantage....

Conor doesn't belong at 145 naturally, he's pushing harder than most FWs to get there... everyone including himself, his coach and team say it, particularly after the Aldo fight

And those claiming that he lost to Nate because of this and that is utter waffle..saying he could have done this better or performing post mortems should save it....he lost because Diaz is a better fighter...on every level...he couldn't stop the jabs, he couldn't hurt Nate, he even panicked and tried to go to ground with a black belt in BJJ...

To top it all off, he beat him without a camp, and after being ill...so even on his worst day he still owned McGregor!

The Aldo cut was probably his easiest cut considering he was working with George Lockhart,


On your seconds bit about his loss,I dont see why your telling me this? Ive posted the exact same and said the better fighter clearly won,there is no excuses for him Diaz had legit reasons if he lost short camp ect but to claim there is zero contributing reasons why he lost is naive,he was gassed 5 minutes in.

Ush1

pone2012 wrote: »

I'm probably more aware of dehydration and weight cuts than most..i never did MMA but I kickboxed for a long time and did many harsh cuts to make weight

the stats as above...he has had height and reach advantage in the last 4/5..and am I aware its not a game changer? Yes! Mendes damn near put McGregor away and he had 8 inches of a reach disadvantage....

Conor doesn't belong at 145 naturally, he's pushing harder than most FWs to get there... everyone including himself, his coach and team say it, particularly after the Aldo fight

And those claiming that he lost to Nate because of this and that is utter waffle..saying he could have done this better or performing post mortems should save it....he lost because Diaz is a better fighter...on every level...he couldn't stop the jabs, he couldn't hurt Nate, he even panicked and tried to go to ground with a black belt in BJJ...

To top it all off, he beat him without a camp, and after being ill...so even on his worst day he still owned McGregor!

Do you think Conor or Nate won the first round?

Mellor

pone2012 wrote: »

I'm probably more aware of dehydration and weight cuts than most..i never did MMA but I kickboxed for a long time and did many harsh cuts to make weight

the stats as above...he has had height and reach advantage in the last 4/5..and am I aware its not a game changer? Yes! Mendes damn near put McGregor away and he had 8 inches of a reach disadvantage....

Conor doesn't belong at 145 naturally, he's pushing harder than most FWs to get there... everyone including himself, his coach and team say it, particularly after the Aldo fight

You are basing his right to be at FW on his height and reach. That's very strange. How hard is cut is not decided on height. Paddy Houlihan is a similar height, fights at 125.

DeLaHoya fought and won titles at 130lbs, 135, 140 and 145lbs (amount others). He is taker than Conor at 5'10 1/2"

You are assuming that the taller you are in a division the better. That's not really true. I'd imagine there's an optimal height for each division.

You said you did kickboxing. What weight cut were you making?

finglashoop

Ush1 wrote: »

Do you think Conor or Nate won the first round?

Yes. But nate let him have it and then stopped him in the second.

Why are people fascinated with him wining a round?

He was.all.out for a.ko and nate seemed happy to let him punch himself out.

Ush1

finglashoop wrote: »

Yes. But nate let him have it and then stopped him in the second.

Why are people fascinated with him wining a round?

He was.all.out for a.ko and nate seemed happy to let him punch himself out.

I don't think Nate "let him have it". Nate spoke after about he was surprised how much he got hit by him and also said Conor hit hard for a smaller guy.

You don't think him winning the only full round of the fight is in anyway significant to a thread discussing the fight?

TheNap

Ush1 wrote: »

I don't think Nate "let him have it". Nate spoke after about he was surprised how much he got hit by him and also said Conor hit hard for a smaller guy.

You don't think him winning the only full round of the fight is in anyway significant to a thread discussing the fight?

Yeah but no so much in 5 rounds as in 3 rounds . In a 5 round fight a fighter wouldnt be as concerned . Especially when they are going at it like that . No way is it gonna last 25mins.

Reach had a big big impact on the Diaz fight (as well as Diaz's durable head). It's not the only factor but for a fighter who relies on striking it's huge.

Look at the moment where the crucial punch on the chin was landed on McGregor. (This was the end - he was rocked, he never recovered and started to panic from here on in, took a pummeling and went to ground and was going to be choked when he quit).

At that moment Diaz is still out of range of McGregor. McGregor is just coming in to make a strike when he gets clocked on the chin.

8 mins 52 seonds here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7BDHdvTnPo

McGregor has up until this fight always enjoyed a nice reach advantage in the UFC. He's never bothered to learn how to box on the inside as a result.

McGregor - reach 188cm

178cm - Aldo
168cm - Mendes
178cm - Siever
183cm - Poirier
175cm - Brandao
180cm - Holloway
180cm - Brimmage

Diaz - 193cm.

oooooooooooooooooohhhh gauntlet thrown by Mellor!!

Ush1

TheNap wrote: »

Yeah but no so much in 5 rounds as in 3 rounds . In a 5 round fight a fighter wouldnt be as concerned . Especially when they are going at it like that . No way is it gonna last 25mins.

No it wasn't gonna last, and that was a product of McGregors approach.

Diaz done fantastic considering the short notice and circumstances but in my opinion this was a winnable fight for Conor. If he fought like in the Holloway fight, or like how RDA fought Nate, I think there's a clear path to victory.

What I saw was a hulking, heavier and as he said himself, inefficient McGregor. It was an ego battle, and that's not something you want to enter into with a Diaz brother.

raze_them_all_

Kickboxing is not cutting the weight the same as mma, not even close

FollowMyWay

Mellor wrote: »

He was definitely bigger than 70kg fighting Aldo. 70kg wouldn't be particular big for a FW imo.

72? I can't see him being bigger than that, that would mean he put on just 4KG to fight RDA. It would be the same amount of weight to cut though which he had from 168 to 155, so that seems like a good guess.

I think as many have said, when he predicted the shot with Aldo and was filmed doing so back stage, there was an air of astonishment.

he predicted Nate would be rocked by certain shots and a pattern, involving lead uppercuts etc. I feel he believed he could win this in the same fashion and went hunting for it. I don't see any problem in that he tried, it just turned out what happened in his visual mind was clearly at odds with life in the octagon (a Richard Attenborough production)

Lukker-

Here's an excellent reddit post with all Conor's best moments from the fight.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/49i618/imagegif_mcgregors_best_moments_from_ufc_196/

He really has next level striking, some of those shots are beatuiful and you'd have to wonder if they landed against RDA would they knock him out. A bit more discipline, some better cardio and sparring some rangier fighters and he has the beating of Diaz.

Hazys

Lukker- wrote: »

Here's an excellent reddit post with all Conor's best moments from the fight.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/49i618/imagegif_mcgregors_best_moments_from_ufc_196/

He really has next level striking, some of those shots are beatuiful and you'd have to wonder if they landed against RDA would they knock him out. A bit more discipline, some better cardio and sparring some rangier fighters and he has the beating of Diaz.

Wow he was so close many times in the first round to rocking Nate but slightly missing, or glancing the shot.

No wonder he kept going so hard with hay-makers in the first, it was the biggest cock tease, he kept throwing them because he was getting so close, but he could never close the distance properly.

You could also see him not respecting the power of Diaz until Diaz hit him clean on the chin and he was rocked himself.

Looking back it was a stupid fight from McGregor and some chin on Nate.

bur

Lukker- wrote: »

Here's an excellent reddit post with all Conor's best moments from the fight.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/49i618/imagegif_mcgregors_best_moments_from_ufc_196/

He really has next level striking, some of those shots are beatuiful and you'd have to wonder if they landed against RDA would they knock him out. A bit more discipline, some better cardio and sparring some rangier fighters and he has the beating of Diaz.

Next level? What does that even mean, compared to who?

Diaz with a full camp/sparring etc is getting tagged a lot less in the first round. How does Conor hurt him throwing less often and with less force if he couldn't hurt him with those bombs? against someone with a ten day camp no less.
Think you just need to accept that at this moment in time, Nate Diaz is just a better more well rounded martial artist, is a bad match-up stylistically for Conor and beats him more often than not.

VisibleGorilla

Diaz outboxed McGregor with 10 day notice, no sparring, and food poisoning.

McGregor is a one trick pony, when his left isn't there he has nothing.

Martypants1

Hazys wrote: »

Wow he was so close many times in the first round to rocking Nate but slightly missing, or glancing the shot.

No wonder he kept going so hard with hay-makers in the first, it was the biggest cock tease, he kept throwing them because he was getting so close, but he could never close the distance properly.

You could also see him not respecting the power of Diaz until Diaz hit him clean on the chin and he was rocked himself.

Looking back it was a stupid fight from McGregor and some chin on Nate.

"So close many times"... that's because Diaz avoided them.

TheAnalyst_

McGregor took one decent shot from Diaz and it was game over. Diaz took 4/5 of McGregors best and it didn't bother him.

Swashbuckler

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

Diaz outboxed McGregor with 10 day notice, no sparring, and food poisoning.

McGregor is a one trick pony, when his left isn't there he has nothing.

Oversimplifying. To say McG is a one trick pony is just wrong. Plain and simple.

Swashbuckler

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

McGregor took one decent shot from Diaz and it was game over. Diaz took 4/5 of McGregors best and it didn't bother him.

What's your point though?

TheAnalyst_

Swashbuckler wrote: »

What's your point though?

That he's not a great MMA fighter.

JustTheOne

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

Diaz outboxed McGregor with 10 day notice, no sparring, and food poisoning.

McGregor is a one trick pony, when his left isn't there he has nothing.

Yeah his kicks were ineffective against mendes alright.

Or his ground work against Holloway.

When is this thread gonna get back to normal?

TheAnalyst_

ftw.usatoday.com/2016/03/ufc-196-conor-mcgregor-hype-trash-talk-nate-diaz

I tend to agree with this analysis.

Swashbuckler

JustTheOne wrote: »

Yeah his kicks were ineffective against mendes alright.

Or his ground work against Holloway.

When is this thread gonna get back to normal?

Usually about 10 days after the fight but because he lost let's give it fourteen days.

Swashbuckler

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

That he's not a great MMA fighter.

Well let's agree to disagree before we even get started on that one.

Pudsy33

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

That he's not a great MMA fighter.

He's a champion ffs :pac:

Gamebred

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

Diaz outboxed McGregor with 10 day notice, no sparring, and food poisoning.

McGregor is a one trick pony, when his left isn't there he has nothing.

This is so wrong its funny,you have seen one example of him losing in 5 years and hes a one trick pony? I wouldnt mind being a one trick pony like him if thats the case, hes ''nothing'' hahahahahaha


We all know hes a striker,never gonna be a wizard off his back or a wrestler but to call him a one trick pony is really far fetched.

Martypants1

Pudsy33 wrote: »

He's a champion ffs :pac:

He's been fighting midgets.

raze_them_all_

Martypants1 wrote: »

He's been fighting midgets.

I'm not a mcgreggor fan.....but....


Size is not everything

Pudsy33

Martypants1 wrote: »

He's been fighting midgets.

Thanks Nate

Gamebred

Martypants1 wrote: »

He's been fighting midgets.

I'll post this again for you sweety.


Conor McGregor is 5'9.

There are 23 fighters standing at 5'10 or above in FW: 32%
There are 13 fighters standing at 5'9: 18%
There are 17 fighters standing at 5'8: 24%
There are 14 fighters standing at 5'7: 19%
There are 5 fighters standing at 5'6: 7%

Average height: 5'9

1/2 of the FW roster is either the same height as Conor or taller.
1/3 of the FW roster is taller than Conor.
1/4 of the FW roster is only 1" shorter than him.



They are the facts,half of the division is the same height or bigger.