UFC 196: McGregor v Diaz

Swashbuckler

Gamebred wrote: »

Anyways ive decided not to reply to the obvious morons posting rubbish back onto the fight discussion,


Conor threw ONE leg kick in the whole fight,that is awful fight IQ for somebody like him,RDA chewed it up and made his boxing completely redundant,I also find his lead leg kick that got him taken down at the end of the first was very poor and thrown lazily.

Even more of the oblique kicks would have made a massive difference. I was sure he would use more kicks in general to negate the reach disadvantage.

DrumSteve

Gamebred wrote: »

Anyways ive decided not to reply to the obvious morons posting rubbish back onto the fight discussion,


Conor threw ONE leg kick in the whole fight,that is awful fight IQ for somebody like him,RDA chewed it up and made his boxing completely redundant,I also find his lead leg kick that got him taken down at the end of the first was very poor and thrown lazily.

Christ, 2 losses in as many months... He may as well retire.

JustShon

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Sorry you feel that way but if you read back through the posts there are plenty of positives and negatives said about McGregor's performance. It's all in the approach. I think generally people that come to offer an opinion and not just try and wind people up rarely if ever, get attacked.

John_D80 wrote: »

Honestly mate if you are here to offer an opinion or ask a question, and not wind people up, you will definitely find this one of the more welcoming forums on boards.

Thanks for the encouragement lads

I find I agree with the people saying that McGregor needs to work on his cardio. His wins in UFC so far have all been quick wins.

I've only watched a couple of McGregor's fights from before he got involved in UFC but it seems to me that he runs out of steam pretty quickly if he doesn't get ahead very early.

He even said it himself, he didn't use his energy efficiently but I think there's more to it than that. The way he's been winning he hasn't needed to build up the stamina needed to continue a fight for the full time. If he could do that then he might be able to win on points against someone like Diaz who can weather his strikes but as he was this weekend I don't think he could have gone the distance regardless of how efficiently he used his energy.

TheAnalyst_

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

ftw.usatoday.com/2016/03/ufc-196-conor-mcgregor-hype-trash-talk-nate-diaz

I tend to agree with this analysis.

lets see, you agree with this ANALysis and your name is the ANALyst....

Yea I think it's fair to say we all know where your opinions come from Freudian slipped as they are!! Hint, the other end of normal!!

FFS:rolleyes:

Chris.

Martypants1 wrote: »

Joe Rogan was advocating stopping the dehydration for weigh in.

There's a serious flaw in the categorisation. McGregors coach has said he finds it extremely tough to make weight.

Oh and WTF was gamebred posting about height and reach so if that's the case??

On your last point I'm very sure Gamebred can think for himself and form his own opinions just like I can.

John_D80

JustShon wrote: »

Thanks for the encouragement lads

I find I agree with the people saying that McGregor needs to work on his cardio. His wins in UFC so far have all been quick wins.

I've only watched a couple of McGregor's fights from before he got involved in UFC but it seems to me that he runs out of steam pretty quickly if he doesn't get ahead very early.

He even said it himself, he didn't use his energy efficiently but I think there's more to it than that. The way he's been winning he hasn't needed to build up the stamina needed to continue a fight for the full time. If he could do that then he might be able to win on points against someone like Diaz who can weather his strikes but as he was this weekend I don't think he could have gone the distance regardless of how efficiently he used his energy.

I would pretty much agree with all this, to be fair. I said earlier in the thread, that the two things Conor lacked most against Nate, were cardio and patience, both of which, thankfully, can be trained.

If there were a next time, I'm sure with a solid intelligent gameplan based on Leg kicks and body shots (both of which Diaz is wide open to), Conor would get the Win. And i would expect a 3rd or 4th round stoppage.

Chris.

John_D80 wrote: »

I would pretty much agree with all this, to be fair. I said earlier in the thread, that the two things Conor lacked most against Nate, were cardio and patience, both of which, thankfully, can be trained.

If there were a next time, I'm sure with a solid intelligent gameplan based on Leg kicks and body shots (both of which Diaz is wide open to), Conor would get the Win. And i would expect a 3rd or 4th round stoppage.

Leg kicks and body shots first round. Start mixing in those left and rights in the second more of the same in the third and go for the kill in the fourth, he'd have it I think.

Swashbuckler

JustShon wrote: »

Thanks for the encouragement lads

I find I agree with the people saying that McGregor needs to work on his cardio. His wins in UFC so far have all been quick wins.

I've only watched a couple of McGregor's fights from before he got involved in UFC but it seems to me that he runs out of steam pretty quickly if he doesn't get ahead very early.

He even said it himself, he didn't use his energy efficiently but I think there's more to it than that. The way he's been winning he hasn't needed to build up the stamina needed to continue a fight for the full time. If he could do that then he might be able to win on points against someone like Diaz who can weather his strikes but as he was this weekend I don't think he could have gone the distance regardless of how efficiently he used his energy.

I think that's part of It. I think another aspect is Conor just loaded up too much and chased the finish against a guy who is tough as nails. That will empty your gas tank. A smarter game plan and a little less trying to make a statement and it's a different fight I think. Not saying he is guaranteed to win but there are ways of beating Nate and he chose the wrong one.

JustShon

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I think that's part of It. I think another aspect is Conor just loaded up too much and chased the finish against a guy who is tough as nails. That will empty your gas tank. A smarter game plan and a little less trying to make a statement and it's a different fight I think. Not saying he is guaranteed to win but there are ways of beating Nate and he chose the wrong one.

Yeah, part of me thinks that his pride wouldn't let him go for the long game. He wanted to be able to say he demolished Nate in one round.

Swashbuckler

JustShon wrote: »

Yeah, part of me thinks that his pride wouldn't let him go for the long game. He wanted to be able to say he demolished Nate in one round.

To be honest I think that's exactly it. He typically hasn't been the type of guy to go in there and try to win rounds. You have to take that route against Nate. And when you're making predictions of second round ko's he has added pressure to himself to chase that finish. I'm not sure he'll make that mistake again at 155 but we'll see. Makes his next two fights very Interesting to say the least

JustShon

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Makes his next two fights very Interesting to say the least

Definitely, and if he does go for the long game it'll mean we get more fight for our money too

As cool as it was seeing McGregor knock Aldo out in 13 seconds I was honestly disappointed by it, got myself geared up for a fight that I almost missed the entirety of by taking a sip of my beer.

Fingers crossed for longer, more strategic fights in future.

Swashbuckler

JustShon wrote: »

Definitely, and if he does go for the long game it'll mean we get more fight for our money too

As cool as it was seeing McGregor knock Aldo out in 13 seconds I was honestly disappointed by it, got myself geared up for a fight that I almost missed the entirety of by taking a sip of my beer.

Fingers crossed for longer, more strategic fights in future.

A few of my mates said the same but the 5 hours of fighting that went before it was great and the fight directly before it was a huge title fight. If you can get hooked on the sport atall you'll see there's so much more beyond McGregor. It was a great 13 seconds though!

rob316

Watch the fight again, why oh why did he go for the takedown. Diaz was starting to hurt him but it was wild and you could see he was exhausted. Just 1 more minute to 3rd round he had, should of kept it off the ground and slowed it down. He just rushed it after a very controlled round and a half.

Swashbuckler

rob316 wrote: »

Watch the fight again, why oh why did he go for the takedown. Diaz was starting to hurt him but it was wild and you could see he was exhausted. Just 1 more minute to 3rd round he had, should of kept it off the ground and slowed it down. He just rushed it after a very controlled round and a half.

I think the phrase is "he was on queer street". Desperation from him.

Gamebred

rob316 wrote: »

Watch the fight again, why oh why did he go for the takedown. Diaz was starting to hurt him but it was wild and you could see he was exhausted. Just 1 more minute to 3rd round he had, should of kept it off the ground and slowed it down. He just rushed it after a very controlled round and a half.

He would 100% of getting finished standing,diaz was only getting going his volume is on another level.

BoardsMember

Why is is that McGregor's volume is so inferior? Surely a professional athlete as well advised as McGregor should be able to go the distance. And even if he can't due to putting too much in too early or whatever perceived tactical flaws, surely he should have been able to not be exhausted within a few minutes.

Billy86

BoardsMember wrote: »

Why is is that McGregor's volume is so inferior? Surely a professional athlete as well advised as McGregor should be able to go the distance. And even if he can't due to putting too much in too early or whatever perceived tactical flaws, surely he should have been able to not be exhausted within a few minutes.

It's a lot more tiring than it looks in there.

SureYWouldntYa

BoardsMember wrote: »

Why is is that McGregor's volume is so inferior? Surely a professional athlete as well advised as McGregor should be able to go the distance. And even if he can't due to putting too much in too early or whatever perceived tactical flaws, surely he should have been able to not be exhausted within a few minutes.

Hitting air with a lot of his strikes would have drained his arms like mad, especially when he was putting a lot into them

LaGlisse

Pretty good collection of GIFS of Mcgregors main kicks/punches. How the **** doe Diaz eat some of those. Pretty terrifying if you are a FW

Edit: forgot to post link
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/49i618/imagegif_mcgregors_best_moments_from_ufc_196/

Swashbuckler

LaGlisse wrote: »

Pretty good collection of GIFS of Mcgregors main kicks/punches. How the **** doe Diaz eat some of those. Pretty terrifying if you are a FW

Those gifs were amazing. Diaz is incredibly tough.

The Golden Miller

LaGlisse wrote: »

Pretty good collection of GIFS of Mcgregors main kicks/punches. How the **** doe Diaz eat some of those. Pretty terrifying if you are a FW

Edit: forgot to post link
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/49i618/imagegif_mcgregors_best_moments_from_ufc_196/

Because he's a machine and would bury McGregor at any weight

Utopia Parkway

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Because he's a machine and would bury McGregor at any weight

Actually think if they fought 10 times Conor would win quite a few of them as long as he fought a lot smarter than he did the last night. Had he left more gas in the tank he could easily win a decision over Nate. Especially in a 3 round fight.

I think he'd prefer those fights at 155 though rather than 170.

BoardsMember

Billy86 wrote: »

It's a lot more tiring than it looks in there.

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Hitting air with a lot of his strikes would have drained his arms like mad, especially when he was putting a lot into them

Is that it really though? I mean he was all out after a few minutes, is that to be expected with the effort/time?

Tigger

JustShon wrote: »

Been lurking this thread for a while now, but just want to point out how amusing it is that people are still voting "Diaz by sub" in the poll.

138 and counting
That's 138 after the fight ended (it was 35 then)

ceecee14

BoardsMember wrote:

Is that it really though? I mean he was all out after a few minutes, is that to be expected with the effort/time?

Yes. That and the few body shots Nate hit him with

jigglypuffstuff

Mellor wrote: »

You are basing his right to be at FW on his height and reach. That's very strange. How hard is cut is not decided on height. Paddy Houlihan is a similar height, fights at 125.

DeLaHoya fought and won titles at 130lbs, 135, 140 and 145lbs (amount others). He is taker than Conor at 5'10 1/2"

You are assuming that the taller you are in a division the better. That's not really true. I'd imagine there's an optimal height for each division.

You said you did kickboxing. What weight cut were you making?

No i didnt mean it in this way...I just think he belongs at 155...his walking around weight says that to me....but its a personal opinion based on 3 things : my experiences, my observations and his own teams reports....you dont need to agree whatsoever

I was making the cut to SWW (69.5kg) but I always aimed for 69 to be safe... there were a few times I made a WW cut to 66 (dehydration etc) and it was pretty crappy so I stuck with the former...

Being honest though I walked around at 72-73 then (77.5 now) so it was simply a case of a well planned CKD, some extra cardio with a carb load following the weigh in for 69...no crazy tactics needed..i was already lean as hell too but I remember them few times I went to 66 and it was excruciating ..plus I did feel like I was bigger there...im 5"10

what is the point of the question??

Ush1 wrote: »

Do you think Conor or Nate won the first round?

I think it doesnt really matter, Conor didnt really hurt him...cut him yes, but hurt him, no

Nate said it all...look at the stuff he's doing in training....Nates got the best boxers around him, the best BJJ guys....and Conor is training with...Ido Portal..

finglashoop

John_D80 wrote: »

I would pretty much agree with all this, to be fair. I said earlier in the thread, that the two things Conor lacked most against Nate, were cardio and patience, both of which, thankfully, can be trained.

If there were a next time, I'm sure with a solid intelligent gameplan based on Leg kicks and body shots (both of which Diaz is wide open to), Conor would get the Win. And i would expect a 3rd or 4th round stoppage.

While conor.could fight smarter and not just throw everything into.every punch it.wont negate the fact that when nate hits him cleanly we will end up with same result. He will wobble him and either ko or sub him.

The.current.theory (from listening to various media) is that.mc gregor lacks the heart for the grind.

John_D80

finglashoop wrote: »

While conor.could fight smarter and not just throw everything into.every punch it.wont negate the fact that when nate hits him cleanly we will end up with same result. He will wobble him and either ko or sub him.

The.current.theory (from listening to various media) is that.mc gregor lacks the heart for the grind.

Diaz is not by any means a power puncher. Very good boxer yes but not a power puncher. He caught Conor clean when Conor was already gassed and and sparked him. The few strikes did connect in the first round didn't trouble McGregor at all. In fact thats a lot of the reason that Conor got too cocky and kept searching for the big shots with no regard for his defence. It was only when Mcgregor was already breathing through his arse that he got clipped. Not taking from what Diaz did mind, but he really is not a power puncher at all.

With a measured approach, and with good use of his long range leg kicks and body strikes, McGregor would be a lot harder to hit.

As for lacking the heart, well I would refer anyone who says this to the Holloway and Mendes fights. Fighting through a torn cruciate and a vicious beating on the ground respectively showed exactly how much heart he has.

Billy86

finglashoop wrote: »

While conor.could fight smarter and not just throw everything into.every punch it.wont negate the fact that when nate hits him cleanly we will end up with same result. He will wobble him and either ko or sub him.

The.current.theory (from listening to various media) is that.mc gregor lacks the heart for the grind.

Punches hurt more when you're tired, and amazingly it's actually harder to avoid submission when you're tired too!

bur

Tigger wrote: »

138 and counting
That's 138 after the fight ended (it was 35 then)

One of the the 35. Wish i was as brave at the bookies.

Tazzimus

Billy86 wrote: »

Punches hurt more when you're tired, and amazingly it's actually harder to avoid submission when you're tired too!

Pfft bollox, punches don't hurt more when you're exhausted and can't roll with them.

What sort of logic is that............


Amazes me that people still can't fathom why he was wrecked by the end of the first.

Looking for a KO punch every exchange and missing with most
Eating a few shots while doing this
Evading the other shots while doing this

Getting punched/slapped in the face while trying to hit someone else is actually off putting, imagine that.

All those punches Nate throws start to add up, plus as I said previously, they like to sneak a full power one in every now and then among all the other less powerful ones when they think you've let your guard down.

Trying to KO a Diaz is never a good game plan.

The takedown was more to try catch his breath but unless your surname is Maia or something, the ground is not where you want to be with either of them.

canhefixit

Tazzimus wrote: »

Pfft bollox, punches don't hurt more when you're exhausted and can't roll with them.

What sort of logic is that............


Amazes me that people still can't fathom why he was wrecked by the end of the first.

Looking for a KO punch every exchange and missing with most
Eating a few shots while doing this
Evading the other shots while doing this

Getting punched/slapped in the face while trying to hit someone else is actually off putting, imagine that.

All those punches Nate throws start to add up, plus as I said previously, they like to sneak a full power one in every now and then among all the other less powerful ones when they think you've let your guard down.

Trying to KO a Diaz is never a good game plan.

The takedown was more to try catch his breath but unless your surname is Maia or something, the ground is not where you want to be with either of them.

Exactly this...

Wrong tactics completely by McGregor, he put everything into winning in the 1st round and by end of round was totally gassed

Came out 2nd round guard was down, breathing hard, taking shots, got rocked then desparate takedown attempt as he knew he was finished on the feet and was there for the taking

He give it to Diaz on a plate really on the ground, but sure its one thing people talking about what happened and being in there at the time

He will bounce back, go back down the weight and dominate im sure

The Golden Miller

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Actually think if they fought 10 times Conor would win quite a few of them as long as he fought a lot smarter than he did the last night. Had he left more gas in the tank he could easily win a decision over Nate. Especially in a 3 round fight.

I think he'd prefer those fights at 155 though rather than 170.

You're a funny guy

Utopia Parkway

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You're a funny guy

Strong argument there.

The Golden Miller

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Strong argument there.

I've given it loads of times. In no scenario does McGregor take Diaz, even over 3 rounds at 155. McGregor can't hide from him in the octagon and he'll catch him and beat him to a pulp before the 3 rounds are out. He doesn't even need to beat him down. One tiny mistake that lets Diaz in (he may not even need a mistake to get in) and McGregor is strangled and submitted with ease.

Wrongway1985

https://twitter.com/GamebredFighter/status/706359786682580993

Check out Jorge Masvidals twitter handle :pac:

Lukker-

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I've given it loads of times. In no scenario does McGregor take Diaz, even over 3 rounds at 155. McGregor can't hide from him in the octagon and he'll catch him and beat him to a pulp before the 3 rounds are out. He doesn't even need to beat him down. One tiny mistake that lets Diaz in (he may not even need a mistake to get in) and McGregor is strangled and submitted with ease.

No.

John_D80

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I've given it loads of times. In no scenario does McGregor take Diaz, even over 3 rounds at 155. McGregor can't hide from him in the octagon and he'll catch him and beat him to a pulp before the 3 rounds are out. He doesn't even need to beat him down. One tiny mistake that lets Diaz in (he may not even need a mistake to get in) and McGregor is strangled and submitted with ease.

Absolutely staggering that you can be so blinkered that you cant imagine any reasonable scenario whereby Conor would win.

I would be of the considered opinion that you know very little about either fighter if you really imagine this to be the case.

Gamebred

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I've given it loads of times. In no scenario does McGregor take Diaz, even over 3 rounds at 155. McGregor can't hide from him in the octagon and he'll catch him and beat him to a pulp before the 3 rounds are out. He doesn't even need to beat him down. One tiny mistake that lets Diaz in (he may not even need a mistake to get in) and McGregor is strangled and submitted with ease.

If only things were all so black and white life would be so easy,its like saying gsp would never beat serra after he ko'd him,WRONG.



At this high level anybody can beat anybody on any given night,that is a fact.

John_D80

Tazzimus wrote: »

Pfft bollox, punches don't hurt more when you're exhausted and can't roll with them.

What sort of logic is that............


Amazes me that people still can't fathom why he was wrecked by the end of the first.

I think what Billy86 was getting at was that it is a lot easier for a guy to be knocked out or stunned by a strike when he is gassed, which is very true. The jaw hangs low and he is breathing hard and deep.

mailburner

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I've given it loads of times. In no scenario does McGregor take Diaz, even over 3 rounds at 155. McGregor can't hide from him in the octagon and he'll catch him and beat him to a pulp before the 3 rounds are out. He doesn't even need to beat him down. One tiny mistake that lets Diaz in (he may not even need a mistake to get in) and McGregor is strangled and submitted with ease.

not sure how you see nate beating him with ease over three at 155 unless some of this is tongue in cheek
I think the result could easily be different at 155 over three but no way it comes as easy and as quick again
you make diaz sound like the best out there with those comments

Tazzimus

John_D80 wrote: »

I think what Billy86 was getting at was that it is a lot easier for a guy to be knocked out or stunned by a strike when he is gassed, which is very true. The jaw hangs low and he is breathing hard and deep.

I was agreeing with him, just being sarcastic about it

Sarcasm wasn't aimed at Billy btw.

John_D80

Tazzimus wrote: »

I was agreeing with him, just being sarcastic about it

Sarcasm wasn't aimed at Billy btw.

My bad!!

For future reference, could you please use the sarcasm font so dumb sh1ts like me dont make themselves look like even dumber sh1ts?

:-)

Gamebred

RedemptionZ

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I've given it loads of times. In no scenario does McGregor take Diaz, even over 3 rounds at 155. McGregor can't hide from him in the octagon and he'll catch him and beat him to a pulp before the 3 rounds are out. He doesn't even need to beat him down. One tiny mistake that lets Diaz in (he may not even need a mistake to get in) and McGregor is strangled and submitted with ease.

He made loads of mistakes in the first round and didn't get subbed till the second, after he had gassed.

With good preparation and planning he would be able to beat Diaz at 155. It would be a decision though, which probably won't be good enough for a lot of posters that don't like McGregor.

Gamebred

Mr Blobby

On the one hand i love that McGregor has brought in a lot of new fans and interest for MMA in Ireland. On the otherhand this means we get a bunch of Sensei Seagal's here that think they know everything.

Saying McGregor wouldn't ever beat Diaz at any weight is a joke. You only had to watch the fight to see how much control Conner had in the first.

StringerBell

I would argue that Nate was playing possom a bit in the first and trying to do as little as possible.

No bearing on how a rematch would go, at any weight. Just for the other night that is how it looked to me.

Dtp1979

Will somebody please close that fcuking poll

Mellor

FollowMyWay wrote: »

72? I can't see him being bigger than that, that would mean he put on just 4KG to fight RDA. It would be the same amount of weight to cut though which he had from 168 to 155, so that seems like a good guess.

I'd have guessed his weight cut was bigger at FW, given how awful he looks on the scales. But we never got to see him cutting to 155 either.
72kg to 66kg isn't an massive big weight cut.

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Kickboxing is not cutting the weight the same as mma, not even close

Exactly. MMA fighters are cutting weight closer to wrestlers than kickboxers/boxers.

pone2012 wrote: »

No i didnt mean it in this way...I just think he belongs at 155...his walking around weight says that to me....but its a personal opinion based on 3 things : my experiences, my observations and his own teams reports....you dont need to agree whatsoever

I think the above bit highlights the issue. You are basing your opinion on your experiences as a kickboxer. Which is completely understandable thing to do btw, but it's also skewing your perception.

A kickboxer who walks around at 74kg might belong at 70kg/154lbs (let's say he competes under K-1 divisions). But that would make for a undersized LW in MMA. In MMA it's probably a very typical FW. A big FW (like Conor) would be above that.

I was making the cut to SWW (69.5kg) but I always aimed for 69 to be safe... there were a few times I made a WW cut to 66 (dehydration etc) and it was pretty crappy so I stuck with the former...

Being honest though I walked around at 72-73 then (77.5 now) so it was simply a case of a well planned CKD, some extra cardio with a carb load following the weigh in for 69...no crazy tactics needed..i was already lean as hell too but I remember them few times I went to 66 and it was excruciating ..plus I did feel like I was bigger there...im 5"10

what is the point of the question??

The point of the question was to gauge your perception of a harsh/normal cuts. Don't worry, I wasn't looking to set up a kickboxing match

Well planned CKD, and some extra cardio is simply, pardon the pun, not going to cut it in MMA. Even at an lower level the normal approach would be some combination of CKD, salt restriction, water loading, hot salt baths/ steam/sauna, clear bowels. Followed by rehydration - carb loading.

MMA divisions are big, so people often fall between them in terms of their natural division. Conor is absolutely a big FW, but the Conor that fought in the octagon in 2015 would have way undersized at LW.