UFC 196: McGregor v Diaz

Gamebred

Anyone pics of Conor weighing in at 155 v Buchinger?

The Golden Miller

I was over exaggerating my point that Conor couldn't beat Diaz over 3 rounds at 155. He may fall over the line on the odd occasions and just about do it, but he would lose 8/10 times imo. Although playing for a conservative points victory is the antithesis to everything McGregor thinks he stands for and going in with those tactics would be a cowardly back down after all his talking. The reality is he can't stand toe to toe with Diaz and come away with the win at any weight. He gets mauled every time unless he runs around the ring away from Nate

xtal191

Gamebred wrote: »

Anyone pics of Conor weighing in at 155 v Buchinger?

Muahahaha

John_D80 wrote: »

I would pretty much agree with all this, to be fair. I said earlier in the thread, that the two things Conor lacked most against Nate, were cardio and patience, both of which, thankfully, can be trained.

If there were a next time, I'm sure with a solid intelligent gameplan based on Leg kicks and body shots (both of which Diaz is wide open to), Conor would get the Win. And i would expect a 3rd or 4th round stoppage.

BoardsMember wrote: »

Why is is that McGregor's volume is so inferior? Surely a professional athlete as well advised as McGregor should be able to go the distance. And even if he can't due to putting too much in too early or whatever perceived tactical flaws, surely he should have been able to not be exhausted within a few minutes.

I've kinda wondered the same myself about his cardio and why he gassed after 7 minutes or so. Like I know that he expended too much energy with throwing haymakers that didn't connect but what I can't understand is why if this was his gameplan then why was he not fit enough to do it for 25 minutes. The obvious answer is no fighter could fight that game plan for 25 minutes so with that being the case his fight plan was very one dimensional. The way it seems to me he went in there to KO Nate in two rounds and only had the fitness to last that long. There didn't seem to be a contingency plan if the fight went to a 3rd, 4th or 5th round.

I must admit to not knowing a whole lot about Diaz but I do know part of his training routine is doing triathlons. By combining swimming, cycling and running he must have arms and legs that can go all day long to match with his sturdy chin. If Nate needed to go the full five rounds I think he had the cardio for it, Conor didn't. And perhaps part of that is because while McGregor is balancing on ropes with Ido Portal Nate Diaz is out on the roads and in the lakes covering 50km by combining three cardio intense sports.

Of course nobody here knows for certain Conor's full training regime throughout his camp and Ido Portal is only brought in for the last week of that anyway. But if I was JK analysiing that I'd be thinking we have to get his cardio levels up because it just simply isn't always going to be possible to finish an opponent in 2 rounds. He's had good success doing it thus far, granted, but it wont always be possible and for those occasions he needs more in his tank.

He'll learn and he'll go again.

Gamebred

Looks in teriffic shape there at 155 very proportioned,obviously his body has changed a bit since then,obviously its different stance and not day of weigh in but its different from this,






Anyone agree or am I alone?

breadmonkey

I usually lurk around here. This has descended into soccer forum levels of retardedness. Let's see how many of these muppets are back when Conor floors his next opponent at FW.

ceecee14

He weighs nowhere near 155 in that pic so impossible to compare.. He does look great in the buchinger weigh in tho, and probably dehydrated for 2 days. I'd imagine he would have looked similar weighing in for RDA fight

Gamebred

ceecee14 wrote: »

He weighs nowhere near 155 in that pic so impossible to compare.. He does look great in the buchinger weigh in tho, I'd imagine he would have looked similar weighing in for RDA fight

Yeah its not really comparable,but just even in when you see him at 145 he looks so much healthier in that pic at 155,I cant wait to see him for good at 155.

ceecee14

Gamebred wrote:

Yeah its not really comparable,but just even in when you see him at 145 he looks so much healthier in that pic at 155,I cant wait to see him for good at 155.

Me too, I'd say it's absolutely sickening him having to drop back down to 145 but surly he will defend once and move up.

If he successfuly defends at ufc200 would he get an immediate shot at RDA or will he have to fight a contender first I wonder. Either way, I think he's next at FW will be his last

The Golden Miller

breadmonkey wrote: »

I usually lurk around here. This has descended into soccer forum levels of retardedness. Let's see how many of these muppets are back when Conor floors his next opponent at FW.

Sure who cares if he can beat midgets. It's telling that he won't fight in his natural weight class. Might end up running into a few more Nate's and take a hammering. Easy to bully little men

Gamebred

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Sure who cares if he can beat midgets. It's telling that he won't fight in his natural weight class. Might end up running into a few more Nate's and take a hammering. Easy to bully little men

Jon Jones is a bully,a fraud and will run into a few types of 'nates' at heavy weight so according to you,


Dont know why Im even responding but on the off chance your serious I look forward to your views on jones fighting smaller men.

Mellor

gallag wrote: »

Post the stats for the ones Connor "the midget slayer" actually fought though,

Martypants1 wrote: »

Why do you keep posting about all the fighters he hasn't fought?

Go fetch me the stats for the fights he has fought..sweety.

Martypants1 wrote: »

Let's see if Gamebred comes back with meaningful stats this time of the height and reach differences of the fighters McGregor has actually fought.

I'm not sure what's point you think you are making here. The above might be relevant if his FW title was awarded simply having the longest streak at FW, and he snuck in verses small guys. But that's not how it works, you do understand that, right?

He was taller than most of his opponents. And they were on average, shorter than the FW divison average (5'9" - same as Conor). That's because match-ups are made on ability and rankings, not height. Sizewise, they all weighed in at 145.


So, who are the tallest guys in the division then. As far as I can see there's 12 guys who are 5'11" or taller.

5'11" 6'0" 6'1"
Andre Fili Alex White Cole Miller
Chas Skelly Dan Hooker
Clay Collard Lucas Martins
Damon Jackson
Max Holloway
Mike De La Torre
Myles Jury
Yair Rodríguez


And how many of these giants are in the featherweight top 15?
Only 1, Max Holloway. Which incidentally is the only guy on that list that Conor has fought. (Cole Miller, who pulled out of a fight with Conor in Dublin). The average height of the top 15 is a fraction under 5'8", and the top 5 is slightly shorter.

So that really highlights the ridiculousness of your point. I have little doubt that Conor could have went 12-0 verses those guys being shorter in every fight, but all he's have is a win streak verses mostly nobodies and certainly no FW title.

Gamebred

Mellor wrote: »

I'm not sure what's point you think you are making here. The above might be relevant if his FW title was awarded simply having the longest streak at FW, and he snuck in verses small guys. But that's not how it works, you do understand that, right?

He was taller than most of his opponents. And they were on average, shorter than the FW divison average (5'9" - same as Conor). That's because match-ups are made on ability and rankings, not height. Sizewise, they all weighed in at 145.


So, who are the tallest guys in the division then. As far as I can see there's 12 guys who are 5'11" or taller.

5'11" 6'0" 6'1"
Andre Fili Alex White Cole Miller
Chas Skelly Dan Hooker
Clay Collard Lucas Martins
Damon Jackson
Max Holloway
Mike De La Torre
Myles Jury
Yair Rodríguez


And how many of these giants are in the featherweight top 15?
Only 1, Max Holloway. Which incidentally is the only guy on that list that Conor has fought. (Cole Miller, who pulled out of a fight with Conor in Dublin). The average height of the top 15 is a fraction under 5'8", and the top 5 is slightly shorter.

So that really highlights the ridiculousness of your point. I have little doubt that Conor could have went 12-0 verses those guys being shorter in every fight, but all he's have is a win streak verses mostly nobodies and certainly no FW title.

How dare you debunk a critics rubbish claims with stone cold facts,looking forward to the reply he should be on soon with a new stick to poke at McGregor.

The Golden Miller

Gamebred wrote: »

Jon Jones is a bully,a fraud and will run into a few types of 'nates' at heavy weight so according to you,


Dont know why Im even responding but on the off chance your serious I look forward to your views on jones fighting smaller men.

Fighting smaller men in Light Heavyweight? What do I think of that? This thread isn't about Jon Jones incase you misread the title. Although unrelated, unlike Conor talking about clearing out the UFC roster in 4 months, Nate probably would go the distance with Jones and come out standing after taking a hiding

StringerBell

Height should not be an obsession with any division. Size and height can also be mutually exclusive, take two LW's like Diaz and RDA. Diaz is plenty taller, but RDA is bigger. He has more size to him, anyway I'm not sure why height is being discussed so I shouldn't get involved maybe

Gamebred

StringerBell wrote: »

Height should not be an obsession with any division. Size and height can also be mutually exclusive, take two LW's like Diaz and RDA. Diaz is plenty taller, but RDA is bigger. He has more size to him, anyway I'm not sure why height is being discussed so I shouldn't get involved maybe

When people are saying hes fighting midgets,it becomes a height discussion.

Gamebred

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Fighting smaller men in Light Heavyweight? What do I think of that? This thread isn't about Jon Jones incase you misread the title. Although unrelated, unlike Conor talking about clearing out the UFC roster in 4 months, Nate probably would go the distance with Jones and come out standing after taking a hiding

Nice attempt of sidestepping the point,if hes beating midgets and his wins are illegitimate so is jones on the basis,so your in theory rubbishing the goat.

The Golden Miller

Gamebred wrote: »

Nice attempt of sidestepping the point,if hes beating midgets and his wins are illegitimate so is jones on the basis,so your in theory rubbishing the goat.

I don't agree with any coward not moving up if they dominate a certain weight, including Jones. 4 years defending the same title when there's no roof over his head is a joke. Although with Jones there is some pretty even match-ups and it often goes the distance. There is still that challenge there, unlike with McGregor who is not fighting at his natural weight class and has breezed through the division

Muahahaha

Check out the power McGregor gets with this right uppercut in the second. If the follow up left had of landed it would have been some combo.

http://gfycat.com/DearestHeavyDipper

Gamebred

Muahahaha wrote: »

Check out the power McGregor gets with this right uppercut in the second. If the follow up left had of landed it would have been some combo.

http://gfycat.com/DearestHeavyDipper

Nice,Diaz took it like a champ and moved out the way nicely.

mdwexford

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I don't agree with any coward not moving up if they dominate a certain weight, including Jones. 4 years defending the same title when there's no roof over his head is a joke. Although with Jones there is some pretty even match-ups and it often goes the distance. There is still that challenge there, unlike with McGregor who is not fighting at his natural weight class and has breezed through the division

Mellor just sickened you, crawl back under your rock.

The Golden Miller

mdwexford wrote: »

Mellor just sickened you, crawl back under your rock.

How? Conor probably has my bed made up for me under that rock. He's been under there for a couple of days now

bur

If you slow it down you can pinpoint the moment his heart breaks.

Mellor

The Golden Miller wrote: »

There is still that challenge there, unlike with McGregor who is not fighting at his natural weight class and has breezed through the division

Jones isn't fighting in his natural weight class either. He is naturally 20-25 heavier the 205 limit for LHW.
In fact, I'd be surprised if there were any fighters outside the HW division who were fighting in their natural weight class. If happened in the past, but not anymore.

Mellor

Gamebred wrote: »

Nice,Diaz took it like a champ and moved out the way nicely.

I like this one. very similar to the Buchinger KO.
Diaz's got clipped but his head movement took the sting out of it though.

The Golden Miller

Mellor wrote: »

Jones isn't fighting in his natural weight class either. He is naturally 20-25 heavier the 205 limit for LHW.
In fact, I'd be surprised if there were any fighters outside the HW division who were fighting in their natural weight class. If happened in the past, but not anymore.

Jones has real competition in LHW, but in saying that he should have gone up long ago. McGregor on the other hand should have been fighting LW all along

Mellor

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Jones has real competition in LHW, but in saying that he should have gone up long ago. McGregor on the other hand should have been fighting LW all along

On what grounds should he have been at LW?

You said because it is his natural division. Which makes no sense as no other fighter (below HW) is fighting at their natural weight.
Then you said because Jones has real competition. That makes little sense either as Jones was much more dominate at LHW than Conor as yet to be at FW. Regardless, being significantly better than opponents does not mean you don't belong at that division.

If Jones does decide to move up. That's his call to make. Until he does, as long as he can make 205, then he deserves fight in the LHW division.
Same applies to Conor, if he makes 145 without issue, then he is a FW. If he was missing weight, it'd be a different story.

John_D80

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Sure who cares if he can beat midgets. It's telling that he won't fight in his natural weight class. Might end up running into a few more Nate's and take a hammering. Easy to bully little men

I always believed eveery fighter cuts weight. Just for some perspective, and to help me understand your point a bit better, could you perhaps name a few elite level fighters that do fight at their natural weight class (besides HW's obviously)?

Whelo79

Pokes head in door to see if all the nonsense talk has gone away yet.

Nope, they're still here in small numbers.

Will come back in a few days.

Martypants1

John_D80 wrote: »

I always believed eveery fighter cuts weight. Just for some perspective, and to help me understand your point a bit better, could you perhaps name a few elite level fighters that do fight at their natural weight class (besides HW's obviously)?

McGregors coach has said he struggles immensely to make weight. The reason he wanted to move up a division was because he found it so tough, imo. Something needs to be done about the weights. Bring the weight in closer to fight time or something.

JustTheOne

Martypants1 wrote: »

McGregors coach has said he struggles immensely to make weight. The reason he wanted to move up a division was because he found it so tough, imo. Something needs to be done about the weights. Bring the weight in closer to fight time or something.

Aldo struggles to make weight too. Loads of fighters do.

Spudman_20000

Martypants1 wrote: »

Bring the weight in closer to fight time or something.

This would just mean fighters coming to the Octagon dehydrated, which is extremely dangerous.

I believe they used to have boxing weigh ins the morning of a fight, but then you had guys getting punched in the head who were so dehydrated, they had less fluid around the brain. Recipe for disaster.

Gamebred

Gamebred wrote: »

Looks in teriffic shape there at 155 very proportioned,obviously his body has changed a bit since then,obviously its different stance and not day of weigh in but its different from this,






Anyone agree or am I alone?

yes I agree and think he looks better in the cage warriors photo too.
I notice his body looked different when he knocked brimage out and he looked faster, it had that whip like bruce lee look. On Saturday he looked a tad slowed by the bulky muscle and it showed on his gas tank.

Not for conspiracies but who on this forum said word from the camp was he's spending more time in the steak houses than in the gym??? might be something to that after all, not performance wise but fitness wise.

Maybe his camp knew his rounds in sparring were lacking and planned to try and take diaz out early as possible...bad plan.

John_D80

Martypants1 wrote: »

McGregors coach has said he struggles immensely to make weight. The reason he wanted to move up a division was because he found it so tough, imo. Something needs to be done about the weights. Bring the weight in closer to fight time or something.

Right thats all stuff that everyone already knows. Dont know what it has to do with the post of mine that you quoted to be honest.

I was asking the guy if he would help me understand his point better and tell me a few elite level fighters that fight at their natural weight because I cant think of a single one.

With reference to weight cuts, McGregor is being ridiculed for doing exactly what every fighter in the promotion does, just because he does it better than them.

ASOT

John_D80 wrote: »

Right thats all stuff that everyone already knows. Dont know what it has to do with the post of mine that you quoted to be honest.

I was asking the guy if he would help me understand his point better and tell me a few elite level fighters that fight at their natural weight because I cant think of a single one.

With reference to weight cuts, McGregor is being ridiculed for doing exactly what every fighter in the promotion does, just because he does it better than them.

Cowboy fighting at 170 would be the only real possibility for an elite fighter at there own weight, possibly Ben Askren also since one fc banned weight cutting. But 99.9% of fighters cut to get an advantage so it'd be hard enough to find fighters fighting at there natural weight. Points are spot on.

Martypants1

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

This would just mean fighters coming to the Octagon dehydrated, which is extremely dangerous.

I believe they used to have boxing weigh ins the morning of a fight, but then you had guys getting punched in the head who were so dehydrated, they had less fluid around the brain. Recipe for disaster.

Or they would fight at a higher weight class.

I'm sure being that dehydrated would lead to performance issues.

Spudman_20000

Martypants1 wrote: »

Or they would fight at a higher weight class.

I'm sure being that dehydrated would lead to performance issues.

Well, they had to change when fighters weighed in, so you tell me what was actually happening.

JustTheOne

rusty cole wrote: »

yes I agree and think he looks better in the cage warriors photo too.
I notice his body looked different when he knocked brimage out and he looked faster, it had that whip like bruce lee look. On Saturday he looked a tad slowed by the bulky muscle and it showed on his gas tank.

Not for conspiracies but who on this forum said word from the camp was he's spending more time in the steak houses than in the gym??? might be something to that after all, not performance wise but fitness wise.

Maybe his camp knew his rounds in sparring were lacking and planned to try and take diaz out early as possible...bad plan.

I also was one of the voices of concern about the nightclub appearances leading up to the Aldo fight, but we know what happened there so we will never know his Cardio going into that fight!

John_D80

ASOT wrote: »

Cowboy fighting at 170 would be the only real possibility for an elite fighter at there own weight, possibly Ben Askren also since one fc banned weight cutting. But 99.9% of fighters cut to get an advantage so it'd be hard enough to find fighters fighting at there natural weight. Points are spot on.

Hadn't even considered Cowboy to be honest but he did say before he fought ''the other cowboy'' that the weight cut would be a lot easier to 170 so I'm assuming he still cut some weight.

ONE FC's new rules are a great foundation to build on for the future. There are a few minor flaws but hats off to them as an organisation for saying ''enough is enough''.

ceecee14

The Golden Miller wrote:

I don't agree with any coward not moving up if they dominate a certain weight, including Jones. 4 years defending the same title when there's no roof over his head is a joke. Although with Jones there is some pretty even match-ups and it often goes the distance. There is still that challenge there, unlike with McGregor who is not fighting at his natural weight class and has breezed through the division

Jose Aldo cuts a lot of weight to make Featherweight. Dominated the division for years. OK for him tho?

Your logic is sht

shrapnel222

John_D80 wrote: »

Hadn't even considered Cowboy to be honest but he did say before he fought ''the other cowboy'' that the weight cut would be a lot easier to 170 so I'm assuming he still cut some weight.

ONE FC's new rules are a great foundation to build on for the future. There are a few minor flaws but hats off to them as an organisation for saying ''enough is enough''.

what are one FCs new rules?

John_D80

shrapnel222 wrote: »

what are one FCs new rules?

Cant find a link that explains it adequately but its basically a series of weigh-ins both in and out of competition, all year round, to ensure that fighters are competing as close as possible to their walking around weight.

My understanding of it is that they are only allowed to deviate a certain percentage above or below their weight, at different stages during their fight preparations or they can be penalised or barred from fighting.

The whole idea being that fighters will be arriving in the ring without having dangerously dehydrated themselves.

shrapnel222

John_D80 wrote: »

Cant find a link that explains it adequately but its basically a series of weigh-ins both in and out of competition, all year round, to ensure that fighters are competing as close as possible to their walking around weight.

My understanding of it is that they are only allowed to deviate a certain percentage above or below their weight, at different stages during their fight preparations or they can be penalised or barred from fighting.

The whole idea being that fighters will be arriving in the ring without having dangerously dehydrated themselves.

wow, sounds crazy! all year round is overkill surely.

For me i'd like to see reach weight maybe +- 5% maybe the fortnight before with weigh ins every day, couple of days. Which means they can cut but have to stay at that weight for a relative length of time.

JustShon

shrapnel222 wrote: »

wow, sounds crazy! all year round is overkill surely.

Depends on how often the weigh-ins are.

I can't see UFC going for this though since they like to make a big event around weigh-ins and people would soon get sick of it if they tried that every 3 months for every fighter.

John_D80

shrapnel222 wrote: »

wow, sounds crazy! all year round is overkill surely.

For me i'd like to see reach weight maybe +- 5% maybe the fortnight before with weigh ins every day, couple of days. Which means they can cut but have to stay at that weight for a relative length of time.

By all year round, I mean they are weighed both in and out of competition. Its really not restrictive at all and from what I have read the whole process was developed by consulting with fighters and coaches, as well as doctors.

In most instances a guy 8 weeks into a ten week camp is going to weigh in different than he did when he started camp but the ONE system accounts for all this.

John_D80

JustShon wrote: »

Depends on how often the weigh-ins are.

I can't see UFC going for this though since they like to make a big event around weigh-ins and people would soon get sick of it if they tried that every 3 months for every fighter.

I think the UFC to be fair are going to come around to the dangers of weight cutting soon and initiate a change if they havent already.

One of their most public faces, Joe Rogan, absolutely abhors the process and is very vocal in his opposition of it.

StringerBell

Gamebred wrote: »

When people are saying hes fighting midgets,it becomes a height discussion.

He was fighting midgets though relative to himself, and not just height wise

I wouldn't overplay the height aspect of it, reach is a different thing alright and Conor is just physically so stacked for that FW division it is tough to see him getting beat there.

LW is more of a contest but there is nothing to suggest he cannot have success there, once he learns from his mistakes. WW is a pie in the sky stuff I have always felt, and no way I can see him touching the top guys of that division. Maybe in the future but I can't see him staying in the fight business too long either.

Too much easy money for him to be made out there that don't involved brutal cuts, tough camps and guys trying to take your head off.

RedemptionZ

He could have easily lost to Mendes If Chad hadn't gassed. We don't know anything about the Aldo fight as it ended in the first exchanges. Had Aldo tried to wear out Conor's legs it could have been different. He could easily lose to Frankie, who is also very hard to knock out and is a great wrestler who will have a full camp. I can see all three of those beating Conor. Not that they necessarily will, but he's far from invincible in the division.

Tazzimus

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Fighting smaller men in Light Heavyweight? What do I think of that? This thread isn't about Jon Jones incase you misread the title. Although unrelated, unlike Conor talking about clearing out the UFC roster in 4 months, Nate probably would go the distance with Jones and come out standing after taking a hiding

This genuinely made me laugh.
I'm a big Diaz fan but Nate would be absolutely demolished by Jones in fairly quick fashion.

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I don't agree with any coward not moving up if they dominate a certain weight, including Jones. 4 years defending the same title when there's no roof over his head is a joke. Although with Jones there is some pretty even match-ups and it often goes the distance. There is still that challenge there, unlike with McGregor who is not fighting at his natural weight class and has breezed through the division

Jones is miles ahead of the rest of the LHW roster and it's shown seeing as none of them could beat him...

On the natural weight classes thing.

HW cut to make the max limit (most)
LHW are HW cutting down
MW are LHW cutting down
WW are MW cutting down

Are you seeing a pattern here?

Gamebred

RedemptionZ wrote: »

He could have easily lost to Mendes If Chad hadn't gassed. We don't know anything about the Aldo fight as it ended in the first exchanges. Had Aldo tried to wear out Conor's legs it could have been different. He could easily lose to Frankie, who is also very hard to knock out and is a great wrestler who will have a full camp. I can see all three of those beating Conor. Not that they necessarily will, but he's far from invincible in the division.

All could've woulda shoulda the facts are if he never wins another fight he will still always be remembered as the man to KO Aldo unconscious,you cannot take his mendes or aldo wins away from him,its mma anything could happen Aldo is as high level as they come anybody can beat anybody on their day so not disagreeing he could potentially beat Conor but facts are facts he had his chance and was put to sleep.