UFC 196: McGregor v Diaz

jigglypuffstuff

Mellor wrote: »

I'd have guessed his weight cut was bigger at FW, given how awful he looks on the scales. But we never got to see him cutting to 155 either.
72kg to 66kg isn't an massive big weight cut.


Exactly. MMA fighters are cutting weight closer to wrestlers than kickboxers/boxers.


I think the above bit highlights the issue. You are basing your opinion on your experiences as a kickboxer. Which is completely understandable thing to do btw, but it's also skewing your perception.

A kickboxer who walks around at 74kg might belong at 70kg/154lbs (let's say he competes under K-1 divisions). But that would make for a undersized LW in MMA. In MMA it's probably a very typical FW. A big FW (like Conor) would be above that.



The point of the question was to gauge your perception of a harsh/normal cuts. Don't worry, I wasn't looking to set up a kickboxing match

Well planned CKD, and some extra cardio is simply, pardon the pun, not going to cut it in MMA. Even at an lower level the normal approach would be some combination of CKD, salt restriction, water loading, hot salt baths/ steam/sauna, clear bowels. Followed by rehydration - carb loading.

MMA divisions are big, so people often fall between them in terms of their natural division. Conor is absolutely a big FW, but the Conor that fought in the octagon in 2015 would have way undersized at LW.

Again, I can only speak from my experience, but on reflection those two cuts from 73 to 66 were brutal for me, although im guessing this was partially due to being very lean...dropping 15lbs when you walk around at a low bf% is much harder than dropping 7-8...i felt like absolute crap tbh...but i wont say there wasnt a huge power difference there, because there was

But as you rightly pointed out, there's a huge difference between MMA and kickboxing Weight classes

That was my only point really, he is a big featherweight, which is in itself an advantage (not a game changer, however). Thats why i imagine he'll have some better fights @LW (More entertaining, longer lasting), but then you have guys like Diaz who are big LW's who can take those punches for days, so it requires a change in technique from him,

He cant expect to knock these guys out so easy. I like Conor tbh, but I feel as though he places too much of an emphasis on finishing things quick..this holds fine in FW ( thats why I used the word "bully" ), but at LW or WW I think he needs a different approach...

riffmongous

John_D80 wrote: »

Right thats all stuff that everyone already knows. Dont know what it has to do with the post of mine that you quoted to be honest.

I was asking the guy if he would help me understand his point better and tell me a few elite level fighters that fight at their natural weight because I cant think of a single one.

With reference to weight cuts, McGregor is being ridiculed for doing exactly what every fighter in the promotion does, just because he does it better than them.

Frankie Edgar won the title at his natural weight and only moved down after he was unlucky with the judges

BJ Penn of course, Machida?

Gamebred

I think Gunnar nelson is one of the very few who fight at their natural weight in the ufc,could make 155 with some effort imo.

Tigger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii3iuOncRwo

Foxtrol

pone2012 wrote: »

That was my only point really, he is a big featherweight, which is in itself an advantage (not a game changer, however). Thats why i imagine he'll have some better fights @LW (More entertaining, longer lasting), but then you have guys like Diaz who are big LW's who can take those punches for days, so it requires a change in technique from him,

He cant expect to knock these guys out so easy. I like Conor tbh, but I feel as though he places too much of an emphasis on finishing things quick..this holds fine in FW ( thats why I used the word "bully" ), but at LW or WW I think he needs a different approach...

The thing is he hasn’t always gone for finishing things straight away at FW. The Holloway, Siver, Mendes fights he picked them apart a bit before going for killer shots.

For some reason he decided he was going to continuously swing for the fences from the off with the guy with the best chin that he’s ever fought, it was arrogant and completely idiotic.

JustShon

Foxtrol wrote: »

The thing is he hasn’t always gone for finishing things straight away at FW. The Holloway, Siver, Mendes fights he picked them apart a bit before going for killer shots.

For some reason he decided he was going to continuously swing for the fences from the off with the guy with the best chin that he’s ever fought, it was arrogant and completely idiotic.

Pride / arrogance (depending on your opinion of him) I reckon. He said more than once that he thought Diaz was a one-dimensional fighter and generally treated him like a thick brute.

He overestimated his own strength and underestimated Diaz.

Fall_Guy

JustShon wrote: »

Pride / arrogance (depending on your opinion of him) I reckon. He said more than once that he thought Diaz was a one-dimensional fighter and generally treated him like a thick brute.

He overestimated his own strength and underestimated Diaz.

I'm not sure that was it, to be honest. At the risk of veering into the realm of bro-psychology, I got the feeling that Conor was far less relaxed from the get-go than he usually is in the ring. He normally fights so calmly that even when throwing power shots and firing off spinning kicks and jumping switch kicks etc to beat the band, he expends the minimum of energy. He looked like he had a major adrenaline dump in that fight.

I know this sounds ridiculous and I Usually rate Conor's mental strength as one of his best assets, but I feel he was a little rattled in this one and he felt the pressure to make a statement coming into it. I just feel that there is no way a man of his level of fitness gasses that badly in under a round unless anxiety plays a part.

JustShon

Fall_Guy wrote: »

I'm not sure that was it, to be honest. At the risk of veering into the realm of bro-psychology, I got the feeling that Conor was far less relaxed from the get-go than he usually is in the ring. He normally fight so calmly that even when throwing power shots and firing off spinning kicks and jumping switch kicks etc to beat the band, he expends the minimum of energy. He looked like he had a major adrenaline dump in that fight.

I know this sounds ridiculous and I Usually rate Conor's mental strength as one of his best assets, but I feel he was a little rattled in this one and he felt the pressure to make a statement coming into it. I just feel that there is no way a man of his level of fitness gasses that badly in under a round unless anxiety plays a part.

Do you reckon his attempts to end it in round one were more out of desperation then? Sort of an "I'd better put this guy down quick or else..." mentality?

riffmongous

Foxtrol wrote: »

The thing is he hasn’t always gone for finishing things straight away at FW. The Holloway, Siver, Mendes fights he picked them apart a bit before going for killer shots.

For some reason he decided he was going to continuously swing for the fences from the off with the guy with the best chin that he’s ever fought, it was arrogant and completely idiotic.

There was a lot of hype about him after the quick Aldo knockout and he wouldn't be the first guy to start believing his own hype, I mean we all bought into it too (358 voted for knockout and 34 by points in the poll). Let's just hope he learns from it now and keeps himself grounded

sonofenoch

riffmongous wrote: »

There was a lot of hype about him after the quick Aldo knockout and he wouldn't be the first guy to start believing his own hype, I mean we all bought into it too (358 voted for knockout and 34 by points in the poll). Let's just hope he learns from it now and keeps himself grounded

And puts the Mystic Mac business away in a box for good....predictions are a nonsense and played a part in his downfall Saturday, he was so eager to finish it in 1 just like he said

John_D80

riffmongous wrote: »

Frankie Edgar won the title at his natural weight and only moved down after he was unlucky with the judges

BJ Penn of course, Machida?

Frankie walks around at 155?

Wow I thought he was quite a bit bigger than that, around 160-165.

BJ Penn, your definitely right on but Machida has to cut to get to MW, definitely. Hasn't fought at LHW for nearly 3 years now AFAIK.

Point I was getting at is that 99% of fighters are cutting weight so why should Mcgregor get criticised for it. Machida and Edgar are actually two examples that support this as they both went down weight divisions.

riffmongous

John_D80 wrote: »

Frankie walks around at 155?

Wow I thought he was quite a bit bigger than that, around 160-165.

BJ Penn, your definitely right on but Machida has to cut to get to MW, definitely. Hasn't fought at LHW for nearly 3 years now AFAIK.

Point I was getting at is that 99% of fighters are cutting weight so why should Mcgregor get criticised for it. Machida and Edgar are actually two examples that support this as they both went down weight divisions.

I agree, it's the nature of the beast really, I think the rules should be changed to put limits on it but you can't blame the fighters as long as they are making weight. Although I do give extra respect for someone who doesn't cut very much, like Edgar, I thought he was like a hero when he was champ Him and Machida went down for extra opportunities rather than to gain a size advantage

"He walks around and he's 157," Henry continued. "He comes back from Disneyland after his last fight or two fights ago and he's 157, 158 or 159. I don't think Frankie gets enough credit for what he's accomplishing and doing in MMA."

http://www.mmafighting.com/2012/8/14/3241872/frankie-edgar-boxing-coach-bantamweight-featherweight-mma-news

Now you could say he didn't have much choice at fighting LW back in those days when there were no lower classes, but still he fought much bigger men and would still be there if he had gotten a bit more luck with the judges

Idbatterim

lads what date is mcgregor fighting in vegas next?

Pudsy33

Idbatterim wrote: »

lads what date is mcgregor fighting in vegas next?

Probably ufc 200 but not confirmed

Richard tea

Ok its been a few days. Im still gutted. But things are looking up. After re watching moments of the fight I have Cornor as the better striker. He gassed. Thats it plain and simple. He beat himself. Im sure he will come back and dominate 145 division and most likely dominate 155 division also. I would like to see him at 170 again but not within the next 2 years and this time have a solid fight plan. I think If Nate was honest with himself he would admit that those punches hurt big time. Those slow mo gifs posted earlier are beautiful.

Sync

Richard tea wrote: »

Ok its been a few days. Im still gutted. But things are looking up. After re watching moments of the fight I have Cornor as the better striker. He gassed. Thats it plain and simple. He beat himself. Im sure he will come back and dominate 145 division and most likely dominate 155 division also. I would like to see him at 170 again but not within the next 2 years and this time have a solid fight plan. I think If Nate was honest with himself he would admit that those punches hurt big time. Those slow mo gifs posted earlier are beautiful.

Did Nates legs buckle at any stage tho? Genuinely curious, as I know Conors did when Nate caught him, which was the beginning of the end.

Foxtrol

Fall_Guy wrote: »

I'm not sure that was it, to be honest. At the risk of veering into the realm of bro-psychology, I got the feeling that Conor was far less relaxed from the get-go than he usually is in the ring. He normally fights so calmly that even when throwing power shots and firing off spinning kicks and jumping switch kicks etc to beat the band, he expends the minimum of energy. He looked like he had a major adrenaline dump in that fight.

I know this sounds ridiculous and I Usually rate Conor's mental strength as one of his best assets, but I feel he was a little rattled in this one and he felt the pressure to make a statement coming into it. I just feel that there is no way a man of his level of fitness gasses that badly in under a round unless anxiety plays a part.

I’ve said it several times, including before the fight, but he was different all this fight week. He’s normally calm and composed, rarely even talking much crap. The press conferences during fight week are usually a drab affair, about faces melting away and the opponent being just a body type, while this time he was screaming, giving constant abuse every time he was in front of a camera, throwing punches, trying to start fights with Diaz’ camp.

I’m not sure if it was the extra calories from not cutting weight, media hype, Diaz trash talk but his over-exuberant fight week is very similar to his over exuberant first round.

Hope fully it’ll be a good learning experience and next time it’ll be back to the same old calmness and destruction of opponents.

Richard tea

Sync wrote: »

Did Nates legs buckle at any stage tho? Genuinely curious, as I know Conors did when Nate caught him, which was the beginning of the end.

Im nearly sure nate wobbled once or twice from dig to the noggin. Towards the end of the first? Did Conor get rocked, yes, but only after he had ZERO energy. Would the same punch from Diaz have rocked Conor if it happened in the first 20 seconds of the first round? I wouldn't imagine so but sure its pure speculation.

WarZ

I think for the first time since McGregor fought in the UFC he came across an opponent who didn't break from the initial exchanges. I reckon 90% of fighters in FW division would buckle after that uppercut shot for example but Diaz didn't seem phased.

When McGregor realized that his power shots weren't slowing Diaz down he seemed to lose trust in himself and his gameplan and then began to throw hail mary's, gassed himself and shot for the take down.

newbbieb

Foxtrol wrote: »

I’ve said it several times, including before the fight, but he was different all this fight week. He’s normally calm and composed, rarely even talking much crap. The press conferences during fight week are usually a drab affair, about faces melting away and the opponent being just a body type, while this time he was screaming, giving constant abuse every time he was in front of a camera, throwing punches, trying to start fights with Diaz’ camp.

I’m not sure if it was the extra calories from not cutting weight, media hype, Diaz trash talk but his over-exuberant fight week is very similar to his over exuberant first round.

Hope fully it’ll be a good learning experience and next time it’ll be back to the same old calmness and destruction of opponents.

Totally agree with this,everything about this fight was screaming he was gonna lose.Too many unknowns and straying away from the formula that worked his whole career.

Part of me can't help feel Conor was on some sub-conscious level wanting to lose,he had built such a massive name for himself worldwide on the back of this brash persona it feels to me like part of him wanted to relieve that pressure.

Just the choices he was making the constant accepting of short notice changes,now bigger guys,bigger weights on short notice,anybody with half a brain knows it inevitably will lead to a loss,he just didn't look as hungry to actually win this fight on the same level as he did v Aldo the stupid hand punching stuff,like you say he usually dials in more and more coming to the fight,not so much this time.

John_D80

riffmongous wrote: »

I agree, it's the nature of the beast really, I think the rules should be changed to put limits on it but you can't blame the fighters as long as they are making weight. Although I do give extra respect for someone who doesn't cut very much, like Edgar, I thought he was like a hero when he was champ Him and Machida went down for extra opportunities rather than to gain a size advantage


http://www.mmafighting.com/2012/8/14/3241872/frankie-edgar-boxing-coach-bantamweight-featherweight-mma-news

Now you could say he didn't have much choice at fighting LW back in those days when there were no lower classes, but still he fought much bigger men and would still be there if he had gotten a bit more luck with the judges

Lately I think Ive been slightly blinded by the ''McGregor fog'' and forget what a ****ing hero Frankie really is.

PIMPHO

On same flight back as Conor's Mum and she said he's been on antibiotics for past 2 weeks for a chest infection. Explains why he gassed and looked for a quick KO. Said that he doesn't want to make excuses, he'll learn from this loss and he's raring to go again.

ASOT

PIMPHO wrote: »

On same flight back as Conor's Mum and she said he's been on antibiotics for past 2 weeks for a chest infection. Explains why he gassed and looked for a quick KO. Said that he doesn't want to make excuses, he'll learn from this loss and he's raring to go again.

Fairly sure it was posted a few times that he sounded like he had a cold at the presser etc so that would explain it if it was true, doubt he's ever going to say that, he took the loss on the chin.

jigglypuffstuff

Richard tea wrote: »

Ok its been a few days. Im still gutted. But things are looking up. After re watching moments of the fight I have Cornor as the better striker. He gassed. Thats it plain and simple. He beat himself. Im sure he will come back and dominate 145 division and most likely dominate 155 division also. I would like to see him at 170 again but not within the next 2 years and this time have a solid fight plan. I think If Nate was honest with himself he would admit that those punches hurt big time. Those slow mo gifs posted earlier are beautiful.

Thats laughable seriously

the stats as follows from Fightmetric

According to FightMetric, Diaz landed 77 of 152 significant strikes so not only was he more frequent a striker than McGregor (61 of 140) but he was also substantially more precise with his 50% accuracy rate trumping McGregor's 43%.

McGregor was never the better striker, the stats speak for themselves..not to mention he never actually rocked Nate...Whereas Nate buckled him...and Nate is a volume striker, not a power striker

And again, he had no camp...so no McGregor is far from a better striker than Diaz, Diaz's boxing trumps Mcgregors on his worst day (considering no camp and food poisoning, we've got first hand evidence of that)

And if he cant take Diaz, id argue (along with most people) he hasn't a hope of beating RDA...as RDA is a far more difficult fight

Sync wrote: »

Did Nates legs buckle at any stage tho? Genuinely curious, as I know Conors did when Nate caught him, which was the beginning of the end.

He never buckled Nate, those punches that connected were soaked up like a sponge, Nice punches yes, but did not have the intended effect

JustTheOne

PIMPHO wrote: »

On same flight back as Conor's Mum and she said he's been on antibiotics for past 2 weeks for a chest infection. Explains why he gassed and looked for a quick KO. Said that he doesn't want to make excuses, he'll learn from this loss and he's raring to go again.

Would explain a lot. And he did sound sick leading up to the fight.

Anyway he won't make the excuse especially after telling aldo and rda to take Ibuprofen and get on with it:)

newbbieb

pone2012 wrote: »

Thats laughable seriously

the stats as follows from Fightmetric

According to FightMetric, Diaz landed 77 of 152 significant strikes so not only was he more frequent a striker than McGregor (61 of 140) but he was also substantially more precise with his 50% accuracy rate trumping McGregor's 43%.

McGregor was never the better striker, the stats speak for themselves..not to mention he never actually rocked Nate...Whereas Nate buckled him...and Nate is a volume striker, not a power striker

And again, he had no camp...so no McGregor is far from a better striker than Diaz, Diaz's boxing trumps Mcgregors on his worst day (considering no camp and food poisoning, we've got first hand evidence of that)

And if he cant take Diaz, id argue (along with most people) he hasn't a hope of beating RDA...as RDA is a far more difficult fight




He never buckled Nate, those punches that connected were soaked up like a sponge, Nice punches yes, but did not have the intended effect

Why not just have fightmetric judge the fights too huh.Do away with the judges.Its ridiculous to base your whole judgement on fightmetric Jesus.

Again i wouldn't go as far as to say Conor was schooling Nate because Conor looked more sluggish than usual and it wasn't totally one sided but up until he gassed most neutrals can accept Conor was winning the fight comfortably,again i am not saying he is the better fighter or if he can ever beat Nate again but he was without doubt beating him on the feet,till he punched himself out.

nacho libre

pone2012 wrote: »

Thats laughable seriously

the stats as follows from Fightmetric

According to FightMetric, Diaz landed 77 of 152 significant strikes so not only was he more frequent a striker than McGregor (61 of 140) but he was also substantially more precise with his 50% accuracy rate trumping McGregor's 43%.

McGregor was never the better striker, the stats speak for themselves..not to mention he never actually rocked Nate...Whereas Nate buckled him...and Nate is a volume striker, not a power striker

And again, he had no camp...so no McGregor is far from a better striker than Diaz, Diaz's boxing trumps Mcgregors on his worst day (considering no camp and food poisoning, we've got first hand evidence of that)

And if he cant take Diaz, id argue (along with most people) he hasn't a hope of beating RDA...as RDA is a far more difficult fight




He never buckled Nate, those punches that connected were soaked up like a sponge, Nice punches yes, but did not have the intended effect

I predicted Diaz would win by submisson in round 2 for most of the above reasons you cite. However that said i feel if Conor truly learns from this fight, he will beat RDA

Zencop

Sync wrote: »

Did Nates legs buckle at any stage tho? Genuinely curious, as I know Conors did when Nate caught him, which was the beginning of the end.

He was being walked down by Conor, he was hurt.

jigglypuffstuff

newbbieb wrote: »

Why not just have fightmetric judge the fights too huh.Do away with the judges.Its ridiculous to base your whole judgement on fightmetric Jesus.

Again i wouldn't go as far as to say Conor was schooling Nate because Conor looked more sluggish than usual and it wasn't totally one sided but up until he gassed most neutrals can accept Conor was winning the fight comfortably,again i am not saying he is the better fighter or if he can ever beat Nate again but he was without doubt beating him on the feet,till he punched himself out.

Because we are discussing striking...and they are the FACTS regarding the striking in the fight...Love it or Hate it ..doesn't matter..but accept it because they wont change

Yeah he "controlled" the first round...he failed to buckle Diaz despite numerous connections and came out of the round exhausted. He may have won the round on points, but he looked worse for it after the bell imo. Nate was bleeding but he didnt look phased

Ive stated numerous times I like Conor, but he doesn't beat Diaz imo, even on Diaz's worst day as we just seen

Zencop

pone2012 wrote: »

Because we are discussing striking...and they are the FACTS regarding the striking in the fight...Love it or Hate it ..doesn't matter..but accept it because they wont change

Yeah he "controlled" the first round...he failed to buckle Diaz despite numerous connections and came out of the round exhausted. He may have won the round on points, but he looked worse for it after the bell imo. Nate was bleeding but he didnt look phased

Ive stated numerous times I like Conor, but he doesn't beat Diaz imo, even on Diaz's worst day as we just seen

He looked was tired because he was carrying an extra 20 pounds than he usually does during a fight. It puts far too much strain on his cardiovascular system in such a short timespan.

Simply Red

Impressive prediction by Joe Lauzon

The Talking Bread

So ye guys have any prediction when, where, what weight and against whom Mcgregor will be next out?

A few predictions will suffice. All I know is he will be going down in weight I'm sure?

StringerBell

145 fight v Aldo at UFC 200 Las Vegas

Depending on how relations are between Frankie and Dana he may get himself in, but given Dana's reaction when asked about Frankie before the Diaz fight I wouldn't bank on it.

jigglypuffstuff

Zencop wrote: »

He looked was tired because he was carrying an extra 20 pounds than he usually does during a fight. It puts far too much strain on his cardiovascular system in such a short timespan.

Umm are you forgetting he walks around at this weight?? therefore on a normal basis he should be training at this weight..I fail to understand how nobody understands this!

He tanked out because his cardio is bad, not because of a 20lb weight gain

Fall_Guy

pone2012 wrote: »

Because we are discussing striking...and they are the FACTS regarding the striking in the fight...Love it or Hate it ..doesn't matter..but accept it because they wont change

Yeah he "controlled" the first round...he failed to buckle Diaz despite numerous connections and came out of the round exhausted. He may have won the round on points, but he looked worse for it after the bell imo. Nate was bleeding but he didnt look phased

Ive stated numerous times I like Conor, but he doesn't beat Diaz imo, even on Diaz's worst day as we just seen

No matter what the stats say, Conor outstruck Diaz in the first round. He landed all the telling shots. He was papped by the end of the round in fairness, but you can't suggest Nate outstruck Conor up to that point just because he was less tired.

If the stats show that diaz landed more, the majority of his shots were pitter patter until he sensed Conor was gassing in the 2nd round and started to turn up the heat.

I feel Conor definitely has the physical tools to beat Diaz. There's no reason why he couldn't have hit and run, he has the boxing skills and movement to do it. Whether he has the mental strength to withstand the sort of pressure that Diaz can put on remains to be seen however.

jigglypuffstuff

Fall_Guy wrote: »

No matter what the stats say, Conor outstruck Diaz in the first round. He landed all the telling shots. He was papped by the end of the round in fairness, but you can't suggest Nate outstruck Conor up to that point just because he was less tired.

If the stats show that diaz landed more, the majority of his shots were pitter patter until he sensed Conor was gassing in the 2nd round and started to turn up the heat.

I feel Conor definitely has the physical tools to beat Diaz. There's no reason why he couldn't have hit and run, he has the boxing skills and movement to do it. Whether he has the mental strength to withstand the sort of pressure that Diaz can put on remains to be seen however.

Actually I said Conor won the first, but he came out worse for wear because he was almost finished by then and Nate hadn't even gotten started

The stats showed Diaz as the superior striker because Diaz is the superior striker...he went with volume and it paid off...Power means F/A if you cant hurt someone and even less when its draining your energy against a guy who could in some respect, be compared to a solid steel door in terms of durability.

Conor hasn't the boxing skills to beat Diaz, because we just seen McGregors Boxing Vs Diaz's and Diaz's made his look bad because he couldnt buckle him...then Conor decided to go to ground and got trumped there also

So no, Conor never had the boxing skill to beat Diaz, Diaz's boxing is in a league above Conors, as his ground game, and his cardio, and his durability

Its kind of strange that people refuse to accept Diaz as the better fighter, on no level could Conor beat him...He's practically the antithesis to McGregor, and the fight proved it

The fact is Diaz beats Conor even when he's at his worst (Food Poisoned and without a camp) whether its hard to swallow is irrelevant, its obvious

StringerBell

Nate did very little in the first round, how much of that was by design is open to interpretation. I feel like the blood has clouded people a bit. Though Conor landed in the first round and had a high volume of punches attempted he hit air and glove an awful lot.

I have re watched the fight a few times now, and though Conor certainly won the first round, he didn't deliver the domination that I thought on first go. Nate was definitely playing possum a little also in my eyes.

I would urge anybody to watch the fight a few times, with the volume off if that will help and just watch the strikes, landed and missed.

Utopia Parkway

pone2012 wrote: »

Actually I said Conor won the first, but he came out worse for wear because he was almost finished by then and Nate hadn't even gotten started

The stats showed Diaz as the superior striker because Diaz is the superior striker...he went with volume and it paid off...Power means F/A if you cant hurt someone and even less when its draining your energy against a guy who could in some respect, be compared to a solid steel door in terms of durability.

Conor hasn't the boxing skills to beat Diaz, because we just seen McGregors Boxing Vs Diaz's and Diaz's made his look bad because he couldnt buckle him...then Conor decided to go to ground and got trumped there also

So no, Conor never had the boxing skill to beat Diaz, Diaz's boxing is in a league above Conors, as his ground game, and his cardio, and his durability

Its kind of strange that people refuse to accept Diaz as the better fighter, on no level could Conor beat him...He's practically the antithesis to McGregor, and the fight proved it

The fact is Diaz beats Conor even when he's at his worst (Food Poisoned and without a camp) whether its hard to swallow is irrelevant, its obvious

I wouldn't be so sure that Nate is the superior striker over a non-gassed Conor to be honest. When Conor had energy he was doing very well standing. It only became a problem when he punched himself out and suddenly he couldn't move his feet, move his head or barely even lift his arms to defend himself.

Nate won the fight deservedly but there's already been a lot of nonsense revisionism about the fight that doesn't really hold any water. I've seen people say that Nate actually won the first round or that Conor could never beat him no matter what. Neither of which are true IMO. Half way through the 2nd round Conor was on his way to being up 2 rounds to 0. A lighter Conor at 155 with a better gas tank and superior game plan could certainly win a decision over Nate. Stopping him would be very difficult though as Nate can take almost endless punishment.

Creded

pone2012 wrote: »

Actually I said Conor won the first, but he came out worse for wear because he was almost finished by then and Nate hadn't even gotten started

The stats showed Diaz as the superior striker because Diaz is the superior striker...he went with volume and it paid off...Power means F/A if you cant hurt someone and even less when its draining your energy against a guy who could in some respect, be compared to a solid steel door in terms of durability.

Conor hasn't the boxing skills to beat Diaz, because we just seen McGregors Boxing Vs Diaz's and Diaz's made his look bad because he couldnt buckle him...then Conor decided to go to ground and got trumped there also

So no, Conor never had the boxing skill to beat Diaz, Diaz's boxing is in a league above Conors, as his ground game, and his cardio, and his durability

Its kind of strange that people refuse to accept Diaz as the better fighter, on no level could Conor beat him...He's practically the antithesis to McGregor, and the fight proved it

The fact is Diaz beats Conor even when he's at his worst (Food Poisoned and without a camp) whether its hard to swallow is irrelevant, its obvious

I think Conor is significantly more skilled than Diaz. Conor was at a bigger disadvantage as he wasn't used to fighting carrying so much weight. I know what it feels like after after buling up by a stone myself and it absolutely destroys your cardio. With another 6 months of training with that extra weight I think his stamina would catch up to carry his bodyweight through a fight.

He lost because he got tired.

Gamebred

Creded wrote: »

I think Conor is significantly more skilled than Diaz. Conor was at a bigger disadvantage as he wasn't used to fighting carrying so much weight. I know what it feels like after after buling up by a stone myself and it absolutely destroys your cardio. With another 6 months of training with that extra weight I think his stamina would catch up to carry his bodyweight through a fight.

He lost because he got tired.

Very unfair to Diaz to say he was beaten by fatigue imo,like saying Mendes lost because he got tired so your discrediting that win if your discrediting Diaz's,he made him get tired stayed out of trouble and won the fight very clearly.

newbbieb

StringerBell wrote: »

Nate did very little in the first round, how much of that was by design is open to interpretation. I feel like the blood has clouded people a bit. Though Conor landed in the first round and had a high volume of punches attempted he hit air and glove an awful lot.

I have re watched the fight a few times now, and though Conor certainly won the first round, he didn't deliver the domination that I thought on first go. Nate was definitely playing possum a little also in my eyes.

I would urge anybody to watch the fight a few times, with the volume off if that will help and just watch the strikes, landed and missed.

Yeah he did hit a lot of air,and it was a poor performance from Conor and again i wouldn't bet money on him beating Nate again.But i also wouldn't go as far as the poster above who imo is trying to irritate people coz he dislikes Conor so much.

There is some reasons to believe Conor can vastly improve on this outing,this win for Nate was as much about how bad Conor was,as it was about how well Nate handled him.You can trot out the short notice Nate stuff as a reason to think Nate comes out better,but even Nate admitted afterwards on his worse day he trains for two hours.

It could be right that he can't beat Nate,he is a fair bit longer and taller than Conor,but i think even the biggest Diaz fan can admit this Conor was different than the Conor we usually see.

bur

Probably already been said, but which Diaz brother does Conor fight at UFC 209?

bur

Watching it again, Conor's biggest mistake is seemingly having no respect at all for Nate's boxing. Which is crazy considering the Diaz brothers have always been regarded as top of the pile when it comes to MMA boxing.
Nate does a great job too of rolling with a lot of Conor's power shots, they still land but the sting is taken out of them. Contrast that with Aldo.

That and bad instincts i think. He could have survived that round had he not panicked.

Gamebred

Kicks like this he needs to get rid of from his game,was probably tired here already throwing it,no snap in it what so ever basically asking to be taken down and of his potential match ups are catching that with ease,he wont get an x guard sweep everytime like he did there.

Paully D

Gamebred wrote: »

he wont get an x guard sweep everytime like he did there.

He certainly won't and I completely agree with you, but man that's beautiful to watch.

CurryFlavoured

Gamebred wrote: »

Kicks like this he needs to get rid of from his game,was probably tired here already throwing it,no snap in it what so ever basically asking to be taken down and of his potential match ups are catching that with ease,he wont get an x guard sweep everytime like he did there.

Agreed 100%, I also think Nate was pretty happy to sit in guard.

darced

This post has been deleted.

JustShon

Gamebred wrote: »

Kicks like this he needs to get rid of from his game,was probably tired here already throwing it,no snap in it what so ever basically asking to be taken down and of his potential match ups are catching that with ease,he wont get an x guard sweep everytime like he did there.

Jesus, that's actually embarassing to watch. He may as well have laid down on the ground for Nate there.

mdwexford

Not buying Nate is a better striker than Conor.
He is obviously excellent but Conor is unreal when he's on his game.

Nate the more well rounded fighter, yes.

Zero-Cool

Plus Nate was blocking punches with his hands up and Conor was blocking them with his face