UFC 196: McGregor v Diaz

JJayoo

Conor has to balance the risk/ reward of his trash talking during the actual fight.

Worked perfectly against Mendes. Early in the first round one of Conors kicks is caught by Mendes and instead of doing what should come natural to a wrestler, shooting for a takedown, Conor starts talking and Mendes brain farts and starts talking sh1t back, then McG smacks him lol.

However talking interferes with your breathing, I mean has anyone tried running hard while talking. When you watch how Tate continually tried to interrupt Holly's breathing by covering her mouth it shows just how important every breath is when the body begins to fatigue.

IMO It was definitely a factor contributing to Conor gassing.

Gamebred

This picture says it all really,when would you ever see him standing square in the centre of the octagon like that? just before he was rocked,that is very uncharacteristic of him,running on fumes at this stage no doubt about it.

Naos

JustShon wrote: »

Jesus, that's actually embarassing to watch. He may as well have laid down on the ground for Nate there.

Crazy the amount of MMA experts this country has attained over the last few months. Why didn't they speak out pre-UFC Conor?

Mellor

pone2012 wrote: »

Again, I can only speak from my experience, but on reflection those two cuts from 73 to 66 were brutal for me, although im guessing this was partially due to being very lean...dropping 15lbs when you walk around at a low bf% is much harder than dropping 7-8...i felt like absolute crap tbh...but i wont say there wasnt a huge power difference there, because there was

Being leaner makes cutting weight easier, not harder. You dehydrate by losing water from lean body mass. There's virtually no water to be shed from fat.
I'm sure your 7kg cut was horrible, look at Conor verses Siver/Mendes and imagine what he was cutting to look like that.

And yes it is a horrible experience. Many fighters hate it, but it's currently a part of the game, and when you are dealing in top level UFC money, you'd be insane to not maximize your edge.

riffmongous wrote: »

Frankie Edgar won the title at his natural weight and only moved down after he was unlucky with the judges

• BJ Penn of course, Machida?

[*]Frankie was the smallest LW champ ever, and he still cut a small amount of weight. 2-4lbs. Had there bee na FW div, he's have fought there.
[*]BJ cut to make LW. Maybe he didn't cut for WW everytime. But he was close to 200lbs at times too.
[*]Machida possible walked out with zero cut at LHW. But he is at MW now.


That was the point, even the like of the above are cutting come weight. Every fighter does it to some degree.

Zencop wrote: »

He looked was tired because he was carrying an extra 20 pounds than he usually does during a fight. It puts far too much strain on his cardiovascular system in such a short timespan.

He wasn't carrying an extra 20 pounds of anything close to it.

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

Agreed 100%, I also think Nate was pretty happy to sit in guard.

Yeah, Nate wasn't heart broken with the sweep or anything. But at the same time he'd like to have stayed on top and finish.
But at the same time, it's impossible to accidentally hit an x-guard sweep like that, on a black belt or anyone. Makes the "white belt jiu jitsu" stuff a joke.

Bunny Colvin

JJayoo wrote: »

Conor has to balance the risk/ reward of his trash talking during the actual fight.

Worked perfectly against Mendes. Early in the first round one of Conors kicks is caught by Mendes and instead of doing what should come natural to a wrestler, shooting for a takedown, Conor starts talking and Mendes brain farts and starts talking sh1t back, then McG smacks him lol.

However talking interferes with your breathing, I mean has anyone tried running hard while talking. When you watch how Tate continually tried to interrupt Holly's breathing by covering her mouth it shows just how important every breath is when the body begins to fatigue.

IMO It was definitely a factor contributing to Conor gassing.

Agreed and I'd go as far as saying he needs to leave his ego at the door of the octagon full stop. Don't put pressure on yourself making predictions, don't go into a fight with a bigger man with a game plan that involves knocking him out in the first round, allow yourself to re-group and recover if needs be. Just things like that! What he says before the fight shouldn't affect his game plan under any circumstance.

TBH now that the dust has settled on his defeat, it will turn out to be a positive thing for him in the long term I think. His attitude from here out needs to be 'a win is a win' because there's no doubt there is huge pressure on him at 155. As long as Conor learns from this and fights smarter, he will knock people out in that division, 1st round, 5th round or if needs be - win by decision.

jigglypuffstuff

newbbieb wrote: »

Yeah he did hit a lot of air,and it was a poor performance from Conor and again i wouldn't bet money on him beating Nate again.But i also wouldn't go as far as the poster above who imo is trying to irritate people coz he dislikes Conor so much.

There is some reasons to believe Conor can vastly improve on this outing,this win for Nate was as much about how bad Conor was,as it was about how well Nate handled him.You can trot out the short notice Nate stuff as a reason to think Nate comes out better,but even Nate admitted afterwards on his worse day he trains for two hours.

It could be right that he can't beat Nate,he is a fair bit longer and taller than Conor,but i think even the biggest Diaz fan can admit this Conor was different than the Conor we usually see.

Actually I do like Conor, hes earned my respect and i think hes really put MMA on the map... but im calling this fight as it was, as objectively as possible

And there lies the problem you see..I made this point earlier and it was pretty much blanked.

Nate on his worst day trains for 2hrs... at his walking around weight....This is why i dont buy the weight gain excuse for Conor, because if he was training properly like Diaz at his normal walking weight ( As a fighter should IMO) he wouldn't have been emptied so fast, he was literally out of breath after one round... Something there just doesn't seem right to me

I dont think we seen a different Conor...I think we seen the same old Conor in a new environment ....Conor went from being the " bully " who overpowers and rattles people with power punches to being the one who felt like he couldn't hurt Diaz, Hence, the panic (Which he himself stated kicked in)

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Plus Nate was blocking punches with his hands up and Conor was blocking them with his face

This is something people didnt say much about imo, and a good point, he seemed to leave his hands down quite a bit

Mellor wrote: »

Being leaner makes cutting weight easier, not harder. You dehydrate by losing water from lean body mass. There's virtually no water to be shed from fat.
I'm sure your 7kg cut was horrible, look at Conor verses Siver/Mendes and imagine what he was cutting to look like that.

And yes it is a horrible experience. Many fighters hate it, but it's currently a part of the game, and when you are dealing in top level UFC money, you'd be insane to not maximize your edge.


[*]Frankie was the smallest LW champ ever, and he still cut a small amount of weight. 2-4lbs. Had there bee na FW div, he's have fought there.
[*]BJ cut to make LW. Maybe he didn't cut for WW everytime. But he was close to 200lbs at times too.
[*]Machida possible walked out with zero cut at LHW. But he is at MW now.
[/LIST]

That was the point, even the like of the above are cutting come weight. Every fighter does it to some degree.



He wasn't carrying an extra 20 pounds of anything close to it.


Yeah, Nate wasn't heart broken with the sweep or anything. But at the same time he'd like to have stayed on top and finish.
But at the same time, it's impossible to accidentally hit an x-guard sweep like that, on a black belt or anyone. Makes the "white belt jiu jitsu" stuff a joke.

Being totally honest, i think my coaches stupidity was the reason my 7kg cuts were hard...with the 4kg cut like i said it didnt take much..but the extra 3 i wont lie they were a pain...Hence why i think Conor must be really killing himself to get down to 145..

I think 155 would be a good division for him from a fans perspective...like i said it seems to me he owns guys @145..but then thats just my opinion..I suppose if he can make weight and he gets the advantage @145 then he'd be foolish not to do so. that's a fair point

Mellor

pone2012 wrote: »

Being totally honest, i think my coaches stupidity was the reason my 7kg cuts were hard...with the 4kg cut like i said it didnt take much..but the extra 3 i wont lie they were a pain...Hence why i think Conor must be really killing himself to get down to 145..

Maybe, some coaches are really clueless about it. You see guys running like crazy in sweat suits, skipping rope in the sauna etc. That'll fatigue you fast.

There was a fighter on a season of the ultimate fighter (pro level, with a 5-0 record) who he was cutting weight for his fight. The day before weigh-in he was 7 lbs over, which is too much in itself. But he rocks up to the gym the day of weigh-in 9 lbs over. Everyone is baffled.
Until it's revealed he decided to drink a litre of coconut water before bed. Which is basically a natural electrolyte. So he now has to kill himself for a few hours to make weight. Which he does, then gets knocked out in about 20 seconds the following day.

Moral of the story. People are dumb.

John_D80

JustShon wrote: »

Jesus, that's actually embarassing to watch. He may as well have laid down on the ground for Nate there.

Kick lacked any real substance, so it's no surprise he was taken down, but embarrassing is a bit dramatic.

You don't think the sweep from x-guard to recover top position made up for it??

All in all that gif shows Conor in quite a positive light I think.

JustShon

John_D80 wrote: »

You don't think the sweep from x-guard to recover top position made up for it??

Ok, yeah that was pretty good but that kick looked really bad. Nate obviously barely felt it and all Conor achieved was exposing himself.

Luckycharms_74

I think someone mentioned the "second captains" podcast talking about the fight the other day. I listed to it last night. OMG they were brutal with their analysis of the fight. One guy was saying that Diaz was a "stiff" who lost 3 of his last 5 fights. They never care to mention or research who the losses were against.

* RDA - Decision
* Josh Thompson - TKO (the only guy to stop Diaz in his career)
* Benson Henderson - Decision.

Plus his record of record of 19 wins and 10 losses they called him a journeyman. The thing is look at some of the greats in the UFC with records akin to that.

Randy Couture - 19W 11L
Chuck Liddell - 21W 8L
Tito Ortiz - 18W 12L

Those who know the sport know that at the top you gotta fight so many top guys every time you step in the cage, not like boxing where u can pick and choose your opponent.



Also John Kavanagh was on the MMA hour discussing the fight and basically said the weight jump had absolutely nothing to do with the loss, even at 155lbs Conor would have probably lost with his inefficient punching.


Skip to 1h57m

LaGlisse

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

I think someone mentioned the "second captains" podcast talking about the fight the other day. I listed to it last night. OMG they were brutal with their analysis of the fight. One guy was saying that Diaz was a "stiff" who lost 3 of his last 5 fights. They never care to mention or research who the losses were against.

* RDA - Decision
* Josh Thompson - TKO (the only guy to stop Diaz in his career)
* Benson Henderson - Decision.

Plus his record of record of 19 wins and 10 losses was him as a journeyman. The thing is look at some of the greats in the UFC with records akin to that.

Randy Couture - 19W 11L
Chuck Liddell - 21W 8L
Tito Ortiz - 18W 12L

Those who know the sport know that at the top you gotta fight so many top guys every time you step in the cage, not like boxing where u can pick and choose your opponent.



Also John Kavanagh was on the MMA hour discussing the fight and basically said the weight jump had absolutely nothing to do with the loss, even at 155lbs Conor would have probably lost with his inefficient punching.


Skip to 1h57m

Yeah ,pretty bad from ken early, he was sent over to Vegas for last 2 fights ,talking sport is his job but he doesn't appear to have done anything but the most shallow research into mma. I'm relatively new to it myself but I was cringing at times listening to that podcast

John_D80

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

I think someone mentioned the "second captains" podcast talking about the fight the other day. I listed to it last night. OMG they were brutal with their analysis of the fight. One guy was saying that Diaz was a "stiff" who lost 3 of his last 5 fights. They never care to mention or research who the losses were against.

* RDA - Decision
* Josh Thompson - TKO (the only guy to stop Diaz in his career)
* Benson Henderson - Decision.

Plus his record of record of 19 wins and 10 losses was him as a journeyman. The thing is look at some of the greats in the UFC with records akin to that.

Randy Couture - 19W 11L
Chuck Liddell - 21W 8L
Tito Ortiz - 18W 12L

Those who know the sport know that at the top you gotta fight so many top guys every time you step in the cage, not like boxing where u can pick and choose your opponent.

Their complete MMA turnaround has been really weird. For ages they were slating the sport and McGregor to high heaven and then almost overnight (some time around July last year funnily enough LOL) they were nearly trying to pass themselves off as experts and fans.

They've had Chris Fields on a few times lately and he's been very good in fairness to him, ably sidestepping and rolling with more than one cringey question/comment.

All in all though I wouldn't pay much heed to any of the current/ex newstalk crew (on MMA) until they get a bit more knowledge than what anyone listening can just as easily get from wikipedia.

EDIT: SOrry, now that think of it, Chris Fields has been on Off the Ball, not second captains I think.

Mellor

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

I
Also John Kavanagh was on the MMA hour discussing the fight and basically said the weight jump had absolutely nothing to do with the loss, even at 155lbs Conor would have probably lost with his inefficient punching.

As far as Conor is concerned, it would have been the same at LW. People talking about putting 25lb don't have a clue.
He put on a little bit of weight since 194 but the jump to 170 was so late that he had no time to add mass. He was essentially the same size in there that he would have been at LW.

Could Dias have made LW in 10 days? Who knows. We're only guessing at his size in there, but if it was booked at LW with the nessecery time to get there. He wouldn't have been massively smaller.

Ian Whelan

Mellor wrote: »

he had no time to add mass.

So it was 11 kilos of fat then?

Didn't look that way.

evil_seed

So. Many. Experts
So. Much. Denial

Swashbuckler

Ian Whelan wrote: »

So it was 11 kilos of fat then?

Didn't look that way.

Where did you get 11kg from?

Mellor

Ian Whelan wrote: »

So it was 11 kilos of fat then?

Didn't look that way.

Mass includes fat mass. He didn't add weight after the change to 170lbs days out from the fight. Whatever weight he added was done before RDA pulled out, McGregor was exactly the same size in there that he would have been opposite RDA.
And the weight he did add prior was nowhere near 11kg. That would mean he was 145lbs verses Aldo. He wasn't, not even close.

Mellor

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Where did you get 11kg from?

I'd assume from ;
169lbs - 145lbs = 11kg

TheNap

Mellor wrote: »

Mass includes fat mass. He didn't add weight after the change to 170lbs days out from the fight. Whatever weight he added was done before RDA pulled out, McGregor was exactly the same size in there that he would have been opposite RDA.
And the weight he did add prior was nowhere near 11kg. That would mean he was 145lbs verses Aldo. He wasn't, not even close.

Yep . He would of been close enough to 160lbs fight night v Aldo . He was close to 170lbs v Diaz.

Swashbuckler

Mellor wrote: »

Mass includes fat mass. He didn't add weight after the change to 170lbs days out from the fight. Whatever weight he added was done before RDA pulled out, McGregor was exactly the same size in there that he would have been opposite RDA.
And the weight he did add prior was nowhere near 11kg. That would mean he was 145lbs verses Aldo. He wasn't, not even close.

This still confuses the hell out of me. Taking a very conservative estimate he was 165 lbs in the octagon against Aldo. Months later he had clearly added a lot of muscle yet he weighs in at 167 lbs for Diaz. I wonder did he have a cut for the Diaz fight. He says he didn't but he must have? Sorry if you explained this already. I vaguely remember you responding to this question before.

Swashbuckler

Mellor wrote: »

I'd assume from ;
169lbs - 145lbs = 11kg

Well he only weighs 145 after a cut of greater than 20lbs. This whole weight from Aldo to Diaz fight doesn't add up to me

bur

Swashbuckler wrote: »

This still confuses the hell out of me. Taking a very conservative estimate he was 165 lbs in the octagon against Aldo. Months later he had clearly added a lot of muscle yet he weighs in at 167 lbs for Diaz. I wonder did he have a cut for the Diaz fight. He says he didn't but he must have? Sorry if you explained this already. I vaguely remember you responding to this question before.

He was weighing 177 not too far out from the fight, that is directly from his own camp.

Swashbuckler

bur wrote: »

He was weighing 177 not too far out from the fight, that is directly from his own camp.

So how did he overestimate the cut to 170 so much? I was under the impression he had no weight cut for Diaz

Gamebred

http://gfycat.com/RaggedIllegalFluke


http://gfycat.com/FocusedTestyAnemonecrab


You can see in that 2nd gif how tired he looked but it was a wonderful bit of boxing,that right hand check hook/slap was there for Nate all night,he got confidence from not going down when the left landed.

Mellor

Swashbuckler wrote: »

This still confuses the hell out of me. Taking a very conservative estimate he was 165 lbs in the octagon against Aldo. Months later he had clearly added a lot of muscle yet he weighs in at 167 lbs for Diaz. I wonder did he have a cut for the Diaz fight. He says he didn't but he must have? Sorry if you explained this already. I vaguely remember you responding to this question before.

I would have guessed 165lbs also at the time at least. Based on JK's comments in the past. And also how bad he looks on the scales for 145.

Either his cut to 145 isn't as big as we thought or he cut a little to make WW. I think it's the latter. As he said he was 170 during the world tour.
It's quite possible that he overshot the cut simply because he was used to cutting 2 or 3 times much.You can't necessarily flick a switch and stop your kidneys pissing away water.

bur wrote: »

He was weighing 177 not too far out from the fight, that is directly from his own camp.

It was also said (by Conor) that he was sitting under the 170 limit a few days out. It sounded like he wasn't cutting.
But maybe it's a case that the weight was already off, and he was just floating there for a bit, eating two breakfasts and all the steak he wanted.

PIMPHO

PIMPHO wrote: »

On same flight back as Conor's Mum and she said he's been on antibiotics for past 2 weeks for a chest infection. Explains why he gassed and looked for a quick KO. Said that he doesn't want to make excuses, he'll learn from this loss and he's raring to go again.

Apparently he also had staph.

Letree

I see lots of talk about what McGregor weighed but very little about Nate. What weight was Nate when Dana called and offered him the fight? What weight was Nate in the Octagon on Sat night?

At the press conference he looked very big next to Conor and the same in the Octagon.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Utopia Parkway

Letree wrote: »

I see lots of talk about what McGregor weighed but very little about Nate. What weight was Nate when Dana called and offered him the fight? What weight was Nate in the Octagon on Sat night?

At the press conference he looked very big next to Conor and the same in the Octagon.

He did look noticeably bigger than Conor in the cage. Wasn't carrying as much muscle obviously and muscle is heavy but a much bigger frame in general.

Thelomen Toblackai

Just watched the full fight back for the first time since the original viewing.

When I seen it live I thought Conor was butchering him in the first round. He landed some good shots but most of what he threw hit thin air.

At the start of the second round he was catching Diaz a lot more. I don't buy the story about being gassed either. He was controlling the fight until Diaz rocked him and once he was rocked Diaz kept enough pressure on to ensure he didn't recover.

Once it went to the ground Diaz controlled him easily. Again people say he was gassed but he was getting caught and getting hurt before he shot, so he went to ground because Diaz had him in all sorts of trouble standing up and once on the ground Diaz just knew how to control him. Conor tried to move and tried to get out but Diaz just didn't let him.

All in all regardless of what anyone says Diaz simply outfought him. He took what Conor landed, dodged most of what was thrown, landed himself with more damage, rocked Conor in the stand-up, kept the pressure on, was on the verge of knocking Conor out, controlled him on the ground, got the win.

Conor is a good fighter and a good striker but he was beaten by a better fighter imo.

Gamebred

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

Just watched the full fight back for the first time since the original viewing.

When I seen it live I thought Conor was butchering him in the first round. He landed some good shots but most of what he threw hit thin air.

At the start of the second round he was catching Diaz a lot more. I don't buy the story about being gassed either. He was controlling the fight until Diaz rocked him and once he was rocked Diaz kept enough pressure on to ensure he didn't recover.

Once it went to the ground Diaz controlled him easily. Again people say he was gassed but he was getting caught and getting hurt before he shot, so he went to ground because Diaz had him in all sorts of trouble standing up and once on the ground Diaz just knew how to control him. Conor tried to move and tried to get out but Diaz just didn't let him.

All in all regardless of what anyone says Diaz simply outfought him. He took what Conor landed, dodged most of what was thrown, landed himself with more damage, rocked Conor in the stand-up, kept the pressure on, was on the verge of knocking Conor out, controlled him on the ground, got the win.

Conor is a good fighter and a good striker but he was beaten by a better fighter imo.

Even the biggest McGregor doubters would concede he was gassed by the 2nd round,he was standing flat footed when Diaz landed that cracking 1-2 to wobble him,to say he was in fine condition is absolute garbage talk and this is coming from someone who is making no excuses for him just reasons for how the fight went.

Thelomen Toblackai

Gamebred wrote: »

Even the biggest McGregor doubters would concede he was gassed by the 2nd round,he was standing flat footed when Diaz landed that cracking 1-2 to wobble him,to say he was in fine condition is absolute garbage talk and this is coming from someone who is making no excuses for him just reasons for how the fight went.

Who says he was in fine condition ? He wasn't completely gassed though, he wasn't 100%, I'm sure Nate wasn't either given his lack of preparation and the fact he was fighing without a cut just like Conor was. He was breating heavy like many a fighter who stepped into the octagon before him was on many an occasion. But Conor was still landing and controlling until Diaz rocked him. Had Diaz not landed that would Conor have just fallen over with exhaustion ?

What decided that fight was the fact that the percentage and damage of what Conor landed vs the percentage and damage of what Diaz landed were two completely different things.

He was beaten by a better fighter no matter how you want to look at it.

Gamebred

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

Who says he was in fine condition ? He wasn't completely gassed though, he wasn't 100%, I'm sure Nate wasn't either given his lack of preparation and the fact he was fighing without a cut just like Conor was. But Conor was still landing and controlling until Diaz rocked him. Had Diaz not landed that would Conor have just fallen over with exhaustion ?

What decided that fight was the fact that the percentage and damage of what Conor landed vs the percentage and damage of what Diaz landed were two completely different things.

He was beaten by a better fighter no matter how you want to look at it.

Dont disagree with the last statement whatsoever cant take anything away from Nate,


To say you dont believe he gassed is fine thats your opinion I disagree strongly,he wound up bombs and punched himself out in the first round,he was physically and mentally drained in the 2nd round before being rocked and having to shoot a takedown for survival,when have you ever seen him stand square flat footed in the centre of the octagon before?

Thelomen Toblackai

Gamebred wrote: »

Dont disagree with the last statement whatsoever cant take anything away from Nate,


To say you dont believe he gassed is fine thats your opinion I disagree strongly,he wound up bombs and punched himself out in the first round,he was physically and mentally drained in the 2nd round before being rocked and having to shoot a takedown for survival,when have you ever seen him stand square flat footed in the centre of the octagon before?

That's over exaggerating it though. He was tired but he wasn't completely physically and mentally ****ed after 6 minutes of fighting. Another fighter he'd have been able to keep picking away at and take a decision.

Diaz though was just too good for him. Took what Conor threw and then when the time came landed hard Conor was pretty much ****ed as soon as he got caught.

Paully D

Does anyone have that .gif of Nate trapping Conor's leg preventing him from sliding into side control before taking his back for the RNC please? I know it was posted here earlier in the week but I can't find it. Thanks.

Dtp1979

Paully D wrote: »

Does anyone have that .gif of Nate trapping Conor's leg preventing him from sliding into side control before taking his back for the RNC please? I know it was posted here earlier in the week but I can't find it. Thanks.

https://giant.gfycat.com/LinearDeafeningColt.gif

Simply Red

Jon Anik keeps his word

slicus ricus

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

At the start of the second round he was catching Diaz a lot more. I don't buy the story about being gassed either. He was controlling the fight until Diaz rocked him and once he was rocked Diaz kept enough pressure on to ensure he didn't recover.

The reason Diaz was able to catch him and rock him like that was because Conor was completely gassed - watch it back, at that point, Conor's fluid movement stops and is practically a sitting target, standing right in front of Nate. John Kavanagh said on the MMA hour that he has seen Conor go through an inordinate amount of rounds in training and never seen him breathe heavy and that he was shocked to see Conor breathing heavy after that first round in a way he had never seen from him.

Thelomen Toblackai wrote:

I'm sure Nate wasn't either given his lack of preparation and the fact he was fighing without a cut just like Conor was.

Nate definitely did cut to make 169, no way he was that light on fight night. Chael Sonnen is reporting that Nate was 183lbs on fight night.

and did kavanagh have his own thoughts for a reason on this? did he say what he suspected was the cause of him gassing or was he just saying conor spars all day and so he's at a loss?? strange really.

I dont think the bulk suited him but without it, he'd be worse ipso facto stay at 155, happy medium???.

slicus ricus

rusty cole wrote: »

and did kavanaghhave his own thoughts for a reason on this? did he say what he suspected was trhe cause of him gassing or was he just saying conor spars all day and so he's at a loss?? strange really.

I dont think the bulk suited him but without it, he'd be worse ipso facto stay at 155, happy medium.

Kavanagh said that McGregor overloaded on the left hand and that Nate defended the shots exceptionally well, particularly in rolling the shoulder. Basically that he punched himself out and shouldn't have gone for the knockout left so often in the first. He played down the weight element of it completely, said it didn't make much difference.

Here's the link to it if you want to have a listen to the man himself: http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/3/7/11170782/the-mma-hour-with-rafael-dos-anjos-john-kavanagh-paige-vanzant-in

slicus ricus

slicus ricus wrote: »

Kavanagh said that McGregor overloaded on the left hand and that Nate defended the shots exceptionally well, particularly in rolling the shoulder. Basically that he punched himself out and shouldn't have gone for the knockout left so often in the first. He played down the weight element of it completely, said it didn't make much difference.

I agree, conor was trying to fulfill his own prediction .i.e destroy em in the first and threw everything and the kitchen sink at him.

no shame at I don't think, both were great on the night, there had to be one loser. just bad planning, would be worse if he was being smashed from the bell in round 1.

slicus ricus

rusty cole wrote: »

I agree, conor was trying to fulfill his own prediction .i.e destroy em in the first and threw everything and the kitchen sink at him.

no shame at I don't think, both were great on the night, there had to be one loser. just bad planning, would be worse if he was being smashed from the bell in round 1.

Exactly. A fine strategy against featherweights who are much smaller than him with less reach. Not so against a much bigger guy in Diaz who has a longer reach that you have to work hard to get on the inside of to hit.

Spudman_20000

slicus ricus wrote: »

Exactly. A fine strategy against featherweights who are much smaller than him with less reach. Not so against a much bigger guy in Diaz who has a longer reach that you have to work hard to get on the inside of to hit.

One could argue that it's an awful strategy against any fighter in any weight class, because no one can predict how someone will respond to being hit.

Were they actually that naïve to think they were going to KO a much bigger guy and someone who had never been KO'd, or least have a Plan B?

Surely Kavanagh or someone on the coaching staff has a say on strategy, or does Conor have the final word on that? If Kavanagh was surprised at how gassed Conor was on the way back to his stool, couldn't he have advised Conor to change tact and ease up on the haymakers?

Anyway, lots to be learned from this fight. Certainly more lessons than knocking a guy out in 13 seconds. Sickened for Conor, but if he was to lose, at least this was about as "good" of loss as he could have had i.e. not injured or KO'd, didn't lose his title.

It's just annoying to see all the backlash from the haters. And listening to Nate in the post-presser saying he was the superior boxer and martial artist. Conor done well to bite his lip. I would have been like "I must have hit you in the head harder than I thought, if you think you were the superior anything".

JustShon

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

does Conor have the final word on that?

I'm not saying Kavanagh has no say, or that Conor ignored him necessarily but obviously Conor does have the final word given that Kavanagh can hardly go into the octagon and force Conor to fight a certain way. If there were a hypothetical disagreement then Conor can just go ahead and do whatever he wants come fight time.

slicus ricus

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

One could argue that it's an awful strategy against any fighter in any weight class, because no one can predict how someone will respond to being hit.

One could argue that alright but the key thing is that at featherweight, going for those knockout shots doesn't take as much energy due to the reach advantage and general size difference. Much less likely to gas out and more likely to be able to win on points over 5 rounds.

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

Were they actually that naïve to think they were going to KO a much bigger guy and someone who had never been KO'd, or least have a Plan B?

There's more to it than him just being bigger and having a good chin. Nate's defensive boxing was superb. I'm sure there was a plan B, which I assume was to win on points over 5 rounds which in fairness Conor was doing up to the point where he gassed. I don't think they saw Conor gassing out as coming into the equation to be fair.

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

If Kavanagh was surprised at how gassed Conor was on the way back to his stool, couldn't he have advised Conor to change tact and ease up on the haymakers?

That's exactly what he did say. At that stage the damage was already done to Conor's gas tank.

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

Anyway, lots to be learned from this fight. Certainly more lessons than knocking a guy out in 13 seconds. Sickened for Conor, but if he was to lose, at least this was about as "good" of loss as he could have had i.e. not injured or KO'd, didn't lose his title.

Exactly and he is getting a lot of respect for the fact that he stepped up 2 divisions and the way he handled the loss.

F*ck the haters, they were around from day 1 even when he was winning fights!

akelly02

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

Just watched the full fight back for the first time since the original viewing.

When I seen it live I thought Conor was butchering him in the first round. He landed some good shots but most of what he threw hit thin air.

At the start of the second round he was catching Diaz a lot more. I don't buy the story about being gassed either. He was controlling the fight until Diaz rocked him and once he was rocked Diaz kept enough pressure on to ensure he didn't recover.

Once it went to the ground Diaz controlled him easily. Again people say he was gassed but he was getting caught and getting hurt before he shot, so he went to ground because Diaz had him in all sorts of trouble standing up and once on the ground Diaz just knew how to control him. Conor tried to move and tried to get out but Diaz just didn't let him.

All in all regardless of what anyone says Diaz simply outfought him. He took what Conor landed, dodged most of what was thrown, landed himself with more damage, rocked Conor in the stand-up, kept the pressure on, was on the verge of knocking Conor out, controlled him on the ground, got the win.

Conor is a good fighter and a good striker but he was beaten by a better fighter imo.

I stopped reading after you said you dont think he gassed.
Absolutely ridiculous.

Swashbuckler

akelly02 wrote: »

I stopped reading after you said you dont think he gassed.
Absolutely ridiculous.

Of all the bullsh*t nonsense posts on here over the last week you pick on the guy who gives a detailed and reasoned account of his opinion. This is where all the fanboy vs hater crap is rooted.

Gamebred

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Of all the bullsh*t nonsense posts on here over the last week you pick on the guy who gives a detailed and reasoned account of his opinion. This is where all the fanboy vs hater crap is rooted.

Come on man,to say he was in grand shape in that 2nd round before he got lit up is absolute rubbish,weather he gassed himself or Nate made him gas what ever your opinion its very clear he was running on fumes.

Swashbuckler

Gamebred wrote: »

Come on man,to say he was in grand shape in that 2nd round before he got lit up is absolute rubbish,weather he gassed himself or Nate made him gas what ever your opinion its very clear he was running on fumes.

That's fine. I happen to think he was gassed. But if you disagree with the guy, then explain why instead of just ridiculing it. The reason these McG threads are such a trainwreck are because of the above.

akelly02

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Of all the bullsh*t nonsense posts on here over the last week you pick on the guy who gives a detailed and reasoned account of his opinion. This is where all the fanboy vs hater crap is rooted.

Firstly im not picking on anyone.

Im just stating that what he said is absolute Garbage. Im no expert and God knows there is feck all of them in here either, but if you cant tell when a guy is clearly out of breath and out on his feet then forget about it.

He panic wrestled as he puts it, because he was lit up on the feet and he was gasping for air like a kid with no arm-bands for the first time in a swimming pool.