So, what will €500 get me?

eman66

I know very little about coffee machines, grinders and related stuff but would like to get a decent machine. I'm dizzy looking online over the past week or two so any help or advice would be great!

It would be for espresso, cappuccino, and just a plain mug of black coffee with the morning fry.

Any suggestions?

Today, I'm looking at these two bean-to-cup machines:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sage-Heston-Blumenthal-Barista-Express/dp/B00CI32S9I/ (bit over budget but I might stretch to it)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Delonghi-ECAM22-320-SB-Automatic-Coffee-Machine/dp/B0083VUN2S/

Edit: or this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00NPYDJ6U

Probably be something different again by tomorrow.

gizmo555

I've had De Longhi bean to cup machines similar to the one you linked to for nine years. They make good coffee and are pretty reliable - my current machine has made over 18,500 cups of coffee and 3,350 cappucinos!

eman66

Thanks for the recommendation. That's one for the De Longhi.

Cookie_Monster

If it were me, I'd save the money and get a chemex or similar. Filter is far better than espresso IMO.

eman66

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

If it were me, I'd save the money and get a chemex or similar. Filter is far better than espresso IMO.

Hadn't considered that. Looks great but the Mrs wants her cappuccino!

J_E

Where could you see yourself in terms of the time you want to put into the machine - do you just want a push button to do the work or one with a portafilter handle and steam wand, barista style?

eman66

J_E wrote: »

Where could you see yourself in terms of the time you want to put into the machine - do you just want a push button to do the work or one with a portafilter handle and steam wand, barista style?

Probably bean to cup as quick as possible, unless that would mean compromises on the quality.

Edit: Push of a button sounds good

caviardreams

If you are looking for 10/10 and the highest quality possible a separate machine and grinder will give you so much more flexibility for different beans etc. that it will most definitely produce better than a bean to cup.

That said, I think there are some very, very good bean to cups now (I have a delonghi myself which I picked up for about €220 on an amazon deal which I love!) and some of these have enough grind settings etc. to give a very, very good quality coffee imo. A 8.5 or 9 out of 10 which for a lot of people is fine, and worth the slight compromise for the ease of use and push of a button factor.

It will still be miles ahead of the likes of nespresso/capsule machines as the biggest factor in a good cup of coffee for me is high quality, freshly roasted beans that are freshly ground - once you have that piece of the jigsaw most methods will produce a very drinkable cup. But if you are using stale or preground beans, no machine will make them taste good!

eman66

caviardreams wrote: »

If you are looking for 10/10 and the highest quality possible a separate machine and grinder will give you so much more flexibility for different beans etc. that it will most definitely produce better than a bean to cup.

That said, I think there are some very, very good bean to cups now (I have a delonghi myself which I picked up for about €220 on an amazon deal which I love!) and some of these have enough grind settings etc. to give a very, very good quality coffee imo. A 8.5 or 9 out of 10 which for a lot of people is fine, and worth the slight compromise for the ease of use and push of a button factor.

It will still be miles ahead of the likes of nespresso/capsule machines as the biggest factor in a good cup of coffee for me is high quality, freshly roasted beans that are freshly ground - once you have that piece of the jigsaw most methods will produce a very drinkable cup. But if you are using stale or preground beans, no machine will make them taste good!

Would you have any general suggestions for separate machines? Which Delonghi do you have yourself?

eman66

gizmo555 wrote: »

I've had De Longhi bean to cup machines similar to the one you linked to for nine years. They make good coffee and are pretty reliable - my current machine has made over 18,500 cups of coffee and 3,350 cappucinos!

Which Delonghi is it you have?

gizmo555

eman66 wrote: »

Which Delonghi is it you have?

The ESAM 5500. It has the milk jug which makes cappucinos automatically. This adds quite a bit to the cost, compared to models with just a steam wand and in my experience it's not worth the money.

The coffee it makes is fine though and if I was replacing it I'd go for another De Longhi machine, but more like the one you linked to.

alec76

If you looking for decent machines , forget about bean to cup Delonghi ( cheap or more expensive models, they all makes just very average espresso )
Here what I would recommend :
http://www.homecoffeemachines.ie/products/rancilio-silvia-v4


Grinder


http://www.homecoffeemachines.ie/products/rancilio-rocky-doserless-grinder
I know, it is above your budget, but it is worth it

combo deal
http://www.homecoffeemachines.ie/products/rancilio-silvia-and-rocky

gizmo555

alec76 wrote: »

If you looking for decent machines , forget about bean to cup Delonghi ( cheap or more expensive models, they all makes just very average espresso )
Here what I would recommend :
http://www.homecoffeemachines.ie/products/rancilio-silvia-v4


Grinder


http://www.homecoffeemachines.ie/products/rancilio-rocky-doserless-grinder
I know, it is above your budget, but it is worth it

Depends on how fussy you are, I'm perfectly satisfied with the coffee my machine makes.

But apart from the price, the machine you're talking about is not comparable - it's not bean-to-cup. You may argue that it makes finer coffee and you could be right, but it is significantly less convenient to use, which is a big factor for me.

caviardreams

eman66 wrote: »

Would you have any general suggestions for separate machines? Which Delonghi do you have yourself?

I've got this DeLonghi
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001EOMZ5E/ref=s9_simh_gw_p79_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=1CR7D7E5BP0RB3A5X5JN&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=577048787&pf_rd_i=desktop

J_E

alec76 wrote: »

If you looking for decent machines , forget about bean to cup Delonghi ( cheap or more expensive models, they all makes just very average espresso )
Here what I would recommend :
http://www.homecoffeemachines.ie/products/rancilio-silvia-v4


Grinder


http://www.homecoffeemachines.ie/products/rancilio-rocky-doserless-grinder
I know, it is above your budget, but it is worth it

combo deal
http://www.homecoffeemachines.ie/products/rancilio-silvia-and-rocky

A Rancilio Silvia is not really convenient at all and needs a lot of learning and time to deliver consistently great results. Not to mention the Silvia alone is taking up the entire budget without factoring in the grinder. I think it makes a lot more sense for the OP to get a superautomatic (bean to cup), possibly with a milk frother too. Or at least a more basic machine like a Capresso EC Pro, which wouldn't cost over €300 even with shipping and can produce great coffee. You can do as good as a Rocky for half the price also, for what this will be used for.

adrian522

Could go something like this, but it will require more time to learn and correct mistakes etc than a bean to cup machine. It would however deliver you better quality coffee in the long run.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gaggia-Classic-RI9403-11-machine/dp/B00P2I15ZY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456618791&sr=8-1&keywords=gaggia+classic

+

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sage-Heston-Blumenthal-Smart-Grinder/dp/B00P81AQUU/ref=sr_1_6?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1456619032&sr=1-6&keywords=coffee+grinder

If it was me however I'd spend most of the budget on a grinder and then get a V60 or Chemex or something and just stick to great filter coffee until I could afford a great espresso machine to go with it.

NIMAN

This seems like a very highly reviewed machine currently on offer at Argos
http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9062135/c_1/1|category_root|Kitchen+and+laundry|14418476/Trail/searchtext%3ECOFFEE.htm

alec76

NIMAN wrote: »

This seems like a very highly reviewed machine currently on offer at Argos
http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9062135/c_1/1|category_root|Kitchen+and+laundry|14418476/Trail/searchtext%3ECOFFEE.htm

Entry level Delonghi for the regular price I would say , if I'll go for the local seller, Currys offering better deal

http://www.currys.ie/Product/delonghi-caffe-corso-esam2600-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine-black/322985/396.2.3

eman66

Thanks a million for all the suggestions. Confusion level just about doubled

How many DeLonghi models alone are there?:eek:

Can't decide:

ESAM2800
ESAM5400
ESAM4200
ECAM22.320.SB
ESAM2600
Sage Barista

On top of that I think I've hit a road block. Seems it is a real problem switching between beans, i.e. normal and decaffeinated, in my case. I can't make a caffeinated cup for me and a decaffeinated cup for my partner, even with a separate grinder and machine. Is that right?

gizmo555

eman66 wrote: »

Thanks a million for all the suggestions. Confusion level just about doubled

On top of that I think I've hit a road block. Seems it is a real problem switching between beans, i.e. normal and decaffeinated, in my case. I can't make a caffeinated cup for me and a decaffeinated cup for my partner, even with a separate grinder and machine. Is that right?

While you can't easily switch between normal and decaff beans, most De Longhi machines allow you to put in pre-ground coffee through a separate hatch, one cup's worth at a time. You could use this for pre-ground decaff, although of course it reduces the convenience of bean-to-cup as well as meaning the beans aren't ground as each cup is made.

If you look at the pic here, in the top middle there's a long narrow hatch which you'd open to put in pre-ground coffee:

eman66

gizmo555 wrote: »

While you can't easily switch between normal and decaff beans, most De Longhi machines allow you to put in pre-ground coffee through a separate hatch, one cup's worth at a time. You could use this for pre-ground decaff, although of course it reduces the convenience of bean-to-cup as well as meaning the beans aren't ground as each cup is made.

If you look at the pic here, in the top middle there's a long narrow hatch which you'd open to put in pre-ground coffee:

Cheers. Looks like I need separate grinder and coffee machines then. Back to the drawing board. Only have a week to buy inc. delivery!

J_E

eman66 wrote: »

Thanks a million for all the suggestions. Confusion level just about doubled

How many DeLonghi models alone are there?:eek:

Can't decide:

ESAM2800
ESAM5400
ESAM4200
ECAM22.320.SB
ESAM2600
Sage Barista

On top of that I think I've hit a road block. Seems it is a real problem switching between beans, i.e. normal and decaffeinated, in my case. I can't make a caffeinated cup for me and a decaffeinated cup for my partner, even with a separate grinder and machine. Is that right?

You could always buy a hand grinder as a separate grinder and use the bypass doser hatch (mentioned above) to have both. I use a Hario Mini Mill that works fine for the machine when you have it set up right, cost £20.

alec76

eman66 wrote: »

Thanks a million for all the suggestions. Confusion level just about doubled

How many DeLonghi models alone are there?:eek:

Can't decide:

ESAM2800
ESAM5400
ESAM4200
ECAM22.320.SB
ESAM2600
Sage Barista

On top of that I think I've hit a road block. Seems it is a real problem switching between beans, i.e. normal and decaffeinated, in my case. I can't make a caffeinated cup for me and a decaffeinated cup for my partner, even with a separate grinder and machine. Is that right?

Esam 2600
Esam 2800
Esam 4200
Entry level machines , no difference between them
Esam 5400
Ecam 22.320
middle range machines
In terms of espresso quality ALL of them are same, middle range machines only got some extra features like active cup warmer, water softening filter , lcd screen etc.,but sharing very same grinders and brewing units
Esam - wide, short body, Esam brewing unit
Ecam- narrow , tall, Ecam brewing unit

Sage Barista - not a bean to cup machine , it is semi automatic espresso machine and Grinder in one body( I wouldn't go for it btw)

eman66

alec76 wrote: »

Esam 2600
Esam 2800
Esam 4200
Entry level machines , no difference between them
Esam 5400
Ecam 22.320
middle range machines
In terms of espresso quality ALL of them are same, middle range machines only got some extra features like active cup warmer, water softening filter , lcd screen etc.,but sharing very same grinders and brewing units
Esam - wide, short body, Esam brewing unit
Ecam- narrow , high , Ecam brewing unit

Sage Barista - not a bean to cup machine , it is semi automatic espresso machine and Grinder in one body( I wouldn't go for it btw)

Great, thanks. So, 5400 or 22.320 in that order, if I was to get one from that list? Any recommendation outside of those for the money (or a little bit more if necessary)?

alec76

eman66 wrote: »

Great, thanks. So, 5400 or 22.320 in that order, if I was to get one from that list? Any recommendation outside of those for the money (or a little bit more if necessary)?

I'll go for the cheapest one

Loire

alec76 wrote: »

Sage Barista - not a bean to cup machine , it is semi automatic espresso machine and Grinder in one body( I wouldn't go for it btw)

Hi,

Would you mind telling me why you wouldn't go for the Sage - the reviews seem to be pretty decent. I too am considering getting a coffee machine and thanks all for the feedback in this thread - the De'Longhi machines look very good in any case.

Thanks,
Loire.

gizmo555

Loire wrote: »

Hi,

Would you mind telling me why you wouldn't go for the Sage - the reviews seem to be pretty decent.

As Alec points out, the Sage is not fully automatic, unlike all the De Longhi models (there are plenty of other makers who do bean-to-cup too, e.g., Gaggia).

With bean-to-cup, you put your cup under the spout and press one button. The coffee is then ground and brewed fully automatically. This is not how the Sage works.

illdoit2morrow

gizmo555 wrote: »

I've had De Longhi bean to cup machines similar to the one you linked to for nine years. They make good coffee and are pretty reliable - my current machine has made over 18,500 cups of coffee and 3,350 cappucinos!

Is that an estimate or can you find out from the machine?

Just curious as I've a delonghi bean to cup machine myself.

gizmo555

illdoit2morrow wrote: »

Is that an estimate or can you find out from the machine?

Just curious as I've a delonghi bean to cup machine myself.

These are the stats the machine keeps track of. To be exact, 18,576 coffees and 3,373 cappuccinos. That's over about 6 1/2 years of use.

Loire

gizmo555 wrote: »

As Alec points out, the Sage is not fully automatic, unlike all the De Longhi models (there are plenty of other makers who do bean-to-cup too, e.g., Gaggia).

With bean-to-cup, you put your cup under the spout and press one button. The coffee is then ground and brewed fully automatically. This is not how the Sage works.

Just looking at the SAGE blurb on Amazon:

"Inbuilt grinder takes you from whole beans to espresso in under a minute."

Also, in the picture, there's the container at the top for the beans, so not sure what you mean?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sage-Heston-Blumenthal-Barista-Express/dp/B00CI32S9I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456919667&sr=8-1&keywords=sage+barista+express


Thanks

gizmo555

Loire wrote: »

Just looking at the SAGE blurb on Amazon:

"Inbuilt grinder takes you from whole beans to espresso in under a minute."

Also, in the picture, there's the container at the top for the beans, so not sure what you mean?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sage-Heston-Blumenthal-Barista-Express/dp/B00CI32S9I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456919667&sr=8-1&keywords=sage+barista+express


Thanks

With this machine, you have to manually remove the portafilter from its holder on the right, then hold it under the grinder in the centre to collect the ground coffee, then manually tamp it with the tamper on the left, then put it back onto the holder on the right, then brew your coffee.

With practice, I'm sure you could do it in under a minute. It's just not fully automatic. You'd also need some kind of knock box to discard the used grounds into after each brew, whereas a bean-to-cup machine collects these in an internal container that you'd normally only have to empty just once a day, or less depending on usage.

Loire

gizmo555 wrote: »

With this machine, you have to manually remove the portafilter from its holder on the right, then hold it under the grinder in the centre to collect the ground coffee, then manually tamp it with the tamper on the left, then put it back onto the holder on the right, then brew your coffee.

With practice, I'm sure you could do it in under a minute. It's just not fully automatic. You'd also need some kind of knock box to discard the used grounds into after each brew, whereas a bean-to-cup machine collects these in an internal container that you'd normally only have to empty just once a day, or less depending on usage.

Super, thanks for that - appreciate it.

Loire.

gizmo555

Actually, I don't want to come across as a "bean-to-cup" evangelist and I can well see how other people would prefer other machines.

But, when I think about it, the Sage machine has all the disadvantages of an integrated machine and none of the advantages.

It's not full automatic, press of a button to get your coffee. But it has the grinder integrated into the coffee machine which means if one part packs in, the whole package is scrap. Also, you can't upgrade one or the other separately. Seems to me it gives you the worst of both worlds . . .

flangemeistro

I got this for work http://www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B00UTJQLZK/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1456929036&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=krups+ea8160&dpPl=1&dpID=51PW%2BH0AArL&ref=plSrch on a lightening deal on Amazon two weeks ago for €260 delivered it works out about €350 now but it's an amazing machine.
I also have one of these http://www.amazon.fr/Panasonic-NC-ZA1HXE-Machine-Expresso-Automatique/dp/B00H99ZWM6?&linkCode=wsw&tag=fmcg-21 at home but it's over your budget but it is the cream of the crop of bean to cup machines

alec76

Loire wrote: »

Hi,

Would you mind telling me why you wouldn't go for the Sage - the reviews seem to be pretty decent. I too am considering getting a coffee machine and thanks all for the feedback in this thread - the De'Longhi machines look very good in any case.

Thanks,
Loire.

You'll get it cheaper locally
http://www.harveynorman.ie/small-appliances/coffee-machines/bean-2-cup/sage-barista-pro-coffee-machine-bes870uk.html
Paying €700 for semi with no E61 group head ?! Madness
No naked portafilter , no decent tamper , no VST ridgeless baskets and so on....
As I said before , for this kinda money u get Rancilio Silvia and Rocky Grinder, superb choice IMO

Loire

alec76 wrote: »

You'll get it cheaper locally
http://www.harveynorman.ie/small-appliances/coffee-machines/bean-2-cup/sage-barista-pro-coffee-machine-bes870uk.html
Paying €700 for semi with no E61 group head ?! Madness
No naked portafilter , no decent tamper , no VST ridgeless baskets and so on....
As I said before , for this kinda money u get Rancilio Silvia and Rocky Grinder, superb choice IMO

Hi,

Sorry to derail the thread, but is it possible to get a coffee as good as from one of these machines using an Aeropress? I have one of these and a Bodum grider (same as this Krups one I believe: ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tefal-Grinder-GT203840-Stainless-Capacity/dp/B008J22GF8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1456997575&sr=8-3&keywords=bodum+coffee+grinder)

Thanks,
Loire.

alastair

Nothing wrong with an aeropress at all - it'll make great coffee, as good as any machine - albeit not espresso, as long as you use fresh roast beans and replace that grinder with a burr grinder of some description. The grinder you have is a blade grinder, and really doesn't do justice to any brewing/extraction process (it generates a lot of heat, and irregular size grounds).

A manual / hand operated burr grinder will be better, but involve a bit of work, or you could get a cheap electrical burr grinder - Bodum do one, which wouldn't cut it for espresso, but will manage an aeropress grind okay.

Loire wrote: »

Hi,

Sorry to derail the thread, but is it possible to get a coffee as good as from one of these machines using an Aeropress? I have one of these and a Bodum grider (same as this Krups one I believe: ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tefal-Grinder-GT203840-Stainless-Capacity/dp/B008J22GF8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1456997575&sr=8-3&keywords=bodum+coffee+grinder)

Thanks,
Loire.

murphyebass

alastair wrote: »

Nothing wrong with an aeropress at all - it'll make great coffee, as good as any machine - albeit not espresso, as long as you use fresh roast beans and replace that grinder with a burr grinder of some description. The grinder you have is a blade grinder, and really doesn't do justice to any brewing/extraction process (it generates a lot of heat, and irregular size grounds).

A manual / hand operated burr grinder will be better, but involve a bit of work, or you could get a cheap electrical burr grinder - Bodum do one, which wouldn't cut it for espresso, but will manage an aeropress grind okay.

This.

I bought my dad a this set up at Christmas.

I haven't turned my gaggia classic in weeks.

My favourite brew is now a cup of aeropress.

If done right (and it's not hard) it's coffee perfection imo.