Some advice on this place please

loveisdivine

Hi,

We're first time buyers an we are hopefully going to view this place next week.

We really like the look of it online, but obviously it's very small. Can anybody see, just from the ad, if there are any reasons as to why the price is so low? Or is it simply because of the size/location? It has been recently reduced, I think because it's been on the market for a while.

We are only a couple, no kids, so don't need a huge place. But we do have some pets and if we did end up going for this place it would be with the intention to have a raised conservatory or sunroom added to the back. I believe we wouldn't need planning permission as it meets the general requirements, unless we are missing something really obvious?

Would love thoughts/opinions from people with more experience than us first timers please!

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/the-gate-lodge-rathkenny-house-navan-co-meath/3370122

ford2600

loveisdivine wrote: »

Hi,

We're first time buyers an we are hopefully going to view this place next week.

We really like the look of it online, but obviously it's very small. Can anybody see, just from the ad, if there are any reasons as to why the price is so low? Or is it simply because of the size/location? It has been recently reduced, I think because it's been on the market for a while.

We are only a couple, no kids, so don't need a huge place. But we do have some pets and if we did end up going for this place it would be with the intention to have a raised conservatory or sunroom added to the back. I believe we wouldn't need planning permission as it meets the general requirements, unless we are missing something really obvious?

Would love thoughts/opinions from people with more experience than us first timers please!

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/the-gate-lodge-rathkenny-house-navan-co-meath/3370122

It's pretty, but with G rating not warm!

Is it a listed building? How much land is going with it front and back.

Access up lane;right of way? any issues over the years? Who else uses lane?

Ring a few local engineers and see if they have already surveyed it.... I've got a free report or two that way over the years

Wabbit Ears

Assuming not listed, But check.

Windows would all need to be replaced. Next to no insulation, huge open chimney, peeling wallpaper in many places indicating cold/damp. badly done central heating, note absence of proper radiators, heaters/rads would all need to be wired in right ( note wire running along skirt to ancient electric heater). My guess is the whole house would need a re-wire and re-plumb.
Kitchen is awful and badly designed, would need to be replaced completely with a space-conscious design as the room is tiny, possibly knock down internal wall and make open kichen/living space. You would need to have those ceilings done. While they have a certain rustic charm, they have no heat or noise qualities whatsoever.
All rooms would have to be re-carpeted/floored, walpaper removed and, most likely, the plaster skimmed if you were to paint.

So basically, its 99k for a shell that would need a lot of work before properly habitable. you could slum it for a while but realistically, youd be better buying as a project, living elsewhere while its done and do it right. Id be expecting minimum 150K on top of asking price to fully modernise it.

JIdontknow

loveisdivine wrote: »

Hi,

We're first time buyers an we are hopefully going to view this place next week.

We really like the look of it online, but obviously it's very small. Can anybody see, just from the ad, if there are any reasons as to why the price is so low? Or is it simply because of the size/location? It has been recently reduced, I think because it's been on the market for a while.

We are only a couple, no kids, so don't need a huge place. But we do have some pets and if we did end up going for this place it would be with the intention to have a raised conservatory or sunroom added to the back. I believe we wouldn't need planning permission as it meets the general requirements, unless we are missing something really obvious?

Would love thoughts/opinions from people with more experience than us first timers please!

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/the-gate-lodge-rathkenny-house-navan-co-meath/3370122

Maybe I'm a bit behind but in the current market almost 100k I don't think is too low for this or "too good to be true" in fact I think it's overpriced. It's a nice little countryside cottage out in the countryside but to me it seems a little small (not trying to turn you against it or be over critical) and a lot of work needed, as is it's not habitable in my opinion and more a project house.

For example I presume the kitchen picture is taken from the far corner, back against the wall spanning the full kitchen. My first thought was where will the table and chairs go? Kitchen is roughly 7.5 ft x 16 ft. 7.5 ft minus say 2 ft for the utilities (cooker sink etc) protruding roughly leaves 5 ft. Then you might move sink to looking out the window, want extra storage etc thats another 2 ft presumably (500-600mm worktop). Walkway between the two is now approx 3 ft. Then I was wondering where I'd put the TV in the sitting room lol, there's a corner between fire and dividing wall to kitchen though that it could go! The good thing is the house seems to get plenty light in.

You really need a report on this house or even talk with the neighbours about the area (maybe you're local so know the area etc) see if there's any remedial work that needs doing (roof sound, plumbing etc). Also you need to check on the access, right of way, more property further down the lane or is that lane solely for your use. Scope for a sun room / extension (enough land / garden to accommodate this). Bear in mind the costs of any upgrades and this extension too, for example radiators and heating, insulation and replacing windows if needed, carpets, furniture and fittings etc.

As I said I'm not trying to put you off it at all, I actually think it's a nice quirky little cottage just highlighting the few things I noticed. Also you're visiting it the right time of year as you'll see how warm / cold and damp the house is and how good the insulation etc is and the low BER rating given.

loveisdivine

Yes I imagine we would need to do some upgrades with regard to insulation and also it look like the radiators are more like space heaters, so they would probably need replacing/upgrading too.

We would have about 30k off the bat for the conservatory/sunroom and then with the low price of the mortgage we would have plenty of money to make other upgrades in stages, over the course of a year or something.

We will definitely ask the estate agent about the laneway and space at the front of the gate. I have an electric car so would need to have a charge point (small box on the wall) installed next to where the car will be parked too.

Wabbit Ears

unless this is cash you already have, circa, 280 K then walk away. These cottages are not the bargains you think they are.

loveisdivine

Well no, we don't have 280k cash. I hadn't thought it would be that much to be honest, but then we don't know which is why we're asking!

Its all great advice though so thanks, it's really helpful.

We would be able to stay where we are while any major upgrades were made. With regards to the ceilings, I'm not concerned about noise, theres only 2 of us and will only ever be 2 of us.

I'll look into the engineer report next week.

The_Conductor

Red warning light- is the BER G rating.........
You need a full structural report- not a cursory evaluation- and preferably from someone used to surveying buildings of this vintage.

Its being sold as a summer get-away home- presumably because its inhabitable for circa 9 months of the year.

If you check on Daftdrop- you'll see that the asking price on this has recently fallen from 120k to 99k- so there probably isn't leeway in seeking a further reduction in price- however the fact that its been on the market for a relatively short length of time- and they've already dropped the price in this manner- indicates they want to get rid of it asap.

Link to the property on daftdrop here

loveisdivine

Would a G rating be enough to put most people off then? I'm not sure how much additional insulation etc you would need to improve the rating.

We don't mind living somewhere thats not ideal, until we can make the necessary improvements and upgrades if its worth it in the end to have a suitable house and low mortgage repayments.

BabysCoffee

Personally I think this place is way over priced. Even with 30% knocked off the asking I think it would be still be a bit pricey. I wouldn't touch it for anything more than 60,000. It will only appeal to a small market so I think the sellers will be doing well to get rid of it.

loveisdivine

If I'm honest, most of the houses we have been looking at would be either E or G ratings. We wan't something older, with a bit of charm, Something rustic and cosy. A new build would be my nightmare!

So I can feel like whatever house we go with in the end will have a poor rating because of the style we want. So I imagine we will end up having to improve insulation etc where ever we go.

Cuddlesworth

loveisdivine wrote: »

Yes I imagine we would need to do some upgrades with regard to insulation and also it look like the radiators are more like space heaters, so they would probably need replacing/upgrading too.

We would have about 30k off the bat for the conservatory/sunroom and then with the low price of the mortgage we would have plenty of money to make other upgrades in stages, over the course of a year or something.

We will definitely ask the estate agent about the laneway and space at the front of the gate. I have an electric car so would need to have a charge point (small box on the wall) installed next to where the car will be parked too.

30k for a sunroom is pointless when about 60% of the property needs to be ripped out and redone. Not the type of work where you live there either.

If the building is listed, walk away. Its a money pit with no end.

loveisdivine

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

30k for a sunroom is pointless when about 60% of the property needs to be ripped out and redone. Not the type of work where you live there either.

If the building is listed, walk away. Its a money pit with no end.

It's not listed. What is the 60% thats needs to be ripped out and redone? Obviously needs a new kitchen, thats fine. New wallpaper, possibly carpets. Upgrade insulation and install a central heating system.

Also, if it did need re-wiring and re-plumbing, als long as we can afford to have those things done I don't really see it as a problem. At least then we have a house with brand new plumbing and wiring.

Plus we can stay where we currently are (rent free) while any major works are done before moving in.

The_Conductor

loveisdivine wrote: »

If I'm honest, most of the houses we have been looking at would be either E or G ratings. We wan't something older, with a bit of charm, Something rustic and cosy. A new build would be my nightmare!

So I can feel like whatever house we go with in the end will have a poor rating because of the style we want. So I imagine we will end up having to improve insulation etc where ever we go.

Loveisdivine- rustic and cosy seldom go hand-in-hand- as evidenced by the BER rating.

E, F, G ratings- mean you're going to need a blow torch to warm the place at all- which is why the advertisement specifically refers to it as a summer get away.........

For starters- as its not listed- you'd be looking at external insulation of the whole building, replacing all the windows with double glazing, attic and roofing insulation, possibly dry lining etc etc etc.

It would be relatively easy to spend 120-150k on trying to get this 'cosy' as you put it- have a chat with your surveyor and you'll get an idea of what we're all saying here..........

This building certainly is rustic- but cosy it most certainly is not.

loveisdivine

Don't worry, we're taking all of this advice on board, I'm not dismissing any of the concerns raised I appreciate all of it!

Do you mind me asking what that figure of 120-150k is made up of? How did you arrive at that figure?

Thanks!

The_Conductor

I've an elderly parent who has had to recently put external insulation on a old farm house- a bit bigger than the cottage you're looking at- however, I extrapolated........ I've recently had a boiler and piping for a heating system installed myself. I've gotten quotes for triple glazing- which tends to be the norm these days......... After that- I just put what I thought plausible costings on numerous endeavours..........

If you got reasonable insulation sorted- which I hazard is the external insulation- alongside some drylining- it would be a good start- and you could work around the other aspects of the work as time went on.

By the way- there are actually radiators in place- plumbed radiators- from the pictures- are these on a back boiler from the stove, or a separate oil boiler?

You have a framework you can work with- and it looks like it has been maintained very well- albeit in such a manner that it is probably inhabitable for 3-4 months of the year as-is..........

If I were 15 years younger- I might be interested in a project such as this myself- if I could make the finances work- however, I'm not sure that even at 99k it is doable- however, its up to you to get proper surveys done- and costings- and then to prioritise according to your budget. You don't *need* to do everything up front- and some of the bigger and most effective jobs (exterior insulation for example) wouldn't impinge on living there at the same time...........

Roselm

loveisdivine wrote: »

Also, if it did need re-wiring and re-plumbing, als long as we can afford to have those things done I don't really see it as a problem. At least then we have a house with brand new plumbing and wiring.

.

...and a lot of places everywhere of all price ranges need re-plumbing and re-wiring which aren't anything like the age of that place so I don't see that as a unusual problem either!

Cuddlesworth

loveisdivine wrote: »

It's not listed. What is the 60% thats needs to be ripped out and redone? Obviously needs a new kitchen, thats fine. New wallpaper, possibly carpets. Upgrade insulation and install a central heating system.

Also, if it did need re-wiring and re-plumbing, als long as we can afford to have those things done I don't really see it as a problem. At least then we have a house with brand new plumbing and wiring.

Plus we can stay where we currently are (rent free) while any major works are done before moving in.

Just from the pictures. None of the wiring or plumbing I can see is embedded in the wall. Fireplaces are bricked up upstairs to try save heat. Strong possibilty of rising damp(lets see if that raises as much of a storm as the last time I said that). Wall paper peeling and the coloring in the green room on the outside wall would require investigation.

If it was my home for the next 10 years, I'd put on outside insulation, change all the windows and doors, rip off the very likely dubbed on plaster inside. Sink wiring and plumbing, heaters in better locations, new outlets, nothing gets people more now days when they realize there is 1 plug in a room. Install a new kitchen and bathroom(layout looks difficult to work with and no pictures?) put plasterboard on the ceilings and insulation in the joists for sound dampening more than anything else, and replaster the lot, ceilings and walls.

In reality you could do each piece in turn. But the most cost effective method is to do it all at once. Heating system without insulation is pointless. Plumbing for heating without redoing walls is pointless. Sinking plumbing and moving heaters without sinking electrics and putting in new outlets in the walls is pointless. And so on. And it's expensive. And there will be complications when the walls come down. But come winter it could be described as cosy.

loveisdivine

Thanks for the detailed replies.

I think the plan at this point is to go and see the house, ask plenty of questions, get as much info as possible.

All we know about the house at this point is what's on the ad.

Then if we like the place, get a full pre purchase survey done and see what comes from that.

If also want to speak with a company that builds sunrooms to make sure it's physical possible to build onto the back.

If we did end up making an offer after all that, it would definitely be lower than the current asking. I know they've already reduced it so might not be much leeway but if they don't accept we will just move on.

Thanks again

The_Conductor

Honestly- the sunroom is the least of your worries- in the Irish climate- its yet another manner to loose heat in the winter months (and indeed- will further reduce your already poor BER rating- unless you spend silly money getting triple glazing etc etc.

Jen44

I bought a house in sep with a BER F !! I didnt think it was going to mean much to be honest our last house was a D. The difference in how cold the house is compared with our last is huge! Since moving in we insulated the attic. And we put internal insulation on the exposed gable wall which has helped. We are going to have to insulate the bedrooms too. It has an old oil boiler which is going to cost us 5k to change to a modern gas boiler. All these things start adding up to thousands! Our house was built in the 60's. You will need to look at the plumbing before you think of floors so be sure not to start doing anything cosmetic before getting these important things done...that was a mistake we made! We have a fabulous wooden floor put down but looks like the water pipes are going to need to be upgraded when changing the boiler as well as the rads! Windows will all need to be replaced too! Your a good bit off putting in a sunroom! I think its a fab house I would love it....just dont be naive about how much it is going to cost you to get it livable.

loveisdivine

Ok, well perhaps we could look at having an extension instead. I know it's not an immediate concern, but having the extra room would be important to us so I'd want to know its feasible before making any offers.

After a small amount of googling, I think a rough estimate of €1000 per square metre for an extension would be about average. Which means we could get another room, just a little larger than the current living room, about 24 square metres for under 30k.

Am I right in assuming a proper extension would be better than a sunroom energy rating wise?

Edit - I just wanted to add that I know I seem to be mostly concerned about the additional room as opposed to the other potential problems. Honestly, I just want to know that we can do it, not that we have to do it immediately. If we had to spend the first year with the house just as it is, to get it up to scratch, then add the additional room, we could manage that.

VincePP

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

unless this is cash you already have, circa, 280 K then walk away. These cottages are not the bargains you think they are.

And you say that from a few photos? Wow! You must be amazing.

To the OP

Not underpriced, probably priced to reflect the lifestyle it can offer and the potential and in a way its a little overpriced and it targets a very limited market. If you love the rural life (I do), then its something to consider if other aspects suit you.

Its small - just over 600 sq ft, which is the size of a small 2 bed apartment.

But you may be able to add an extention of 430 sq ft without need for planning (Check with an engineer) - don't add a sunroom (too hot in summer, too cold in winter) and overpriced. A decent local builder will have a full size extension with 2 rooms for under 30k (rural prices ) and at the same time add insulation and new oil fired boiler. Possibly budget 40k-50k to bring it to the equivalent size of a 3 bed house.


Try finding an engineer & builder through contacts (some friend or relation will know one - relations usually a better bet) who will give you the heads up.


Old houses will ave both benefits (look great, loads of character, wow factor for visitors etc) and the negatives, energy rating, things needing renewal, possible restrictions due to fabric of the building etc.

Once you go in with eyes open and take the emotion out of it, you can make an informed decision.

Wabbit Ears

VincePP wrote: »

And you say that from a few photos? Wow! You must be amazing.

.

Thanks, I am quite awesome!!! Ill take it that since you find it amazing that I have the ability to see glaringly obvious issue's that you cannot that I am simply older, wiser, more experienced and more astute then yourself.

dazed+confused

loveisdivine wrote:

Can anybody see, just from the ad, if there are any reasons as to why the price is so low?

Send me a PM on this I can give you a bit of background.

Cuddlesworth

VincePP wrote: »

And you say that from a few photos? Wow! You must be amazing.

Usually at the point where you can reference the age of a house in terms of a millennium, it can best be described as a money pit. Its design was not meant to include modern amenities or simply last this long. In terms of cost of ownership, its very likely to cost more over time due to repairs. The only reason this isn't a decaying husk is that it isn't listed.

loveisdivine

Should the estate agent be able to tell me what renovations have been made to the house over the years?

It's obviously going to have had stuff done to it over the years.

John Mason

I would just point out to you, my grandmothers house was built at the turn of the century and not as old as this house. The walls are ridiculous thick which meant big problems when getting it rewired and replumbed a number of years ago.

There is also asbestos in the ceiling which cost a fortune to dispose of. Get your engineer to check the roof

The_Conductor

John Mason wrote: »

I would just point out to you, my grandmothers house was built at the turn of the century and not as old as this house. The walls are ridiculous thick which meant big problems when getting it rewired and replumbed a number of years ago.

There is also asbestos in the ceiling which cost a fortune to dispose of. Get your engineer to check the roof

If there is asbestos present- normally its perfectly safe- its only when you're messing with it or interacting with it in such a manner that it creates dust- that you have issues. Having asbestos in the roof- is not necessarily the issue that most people imagine.

Jen44

it is if it needs to be replaced though. We have a shed in the garden with an asbestos roof. It will need to be knocked to extend the kitchen when we get around to it and a builder has told me im looking at a fair few bob to have it handled and disposed of correctly

secondrowgal

We bought a house from 1842, listed, about 2 years ago. 2 bed, one bath, kitchen, HUUGE living room, basement with two rooms. Haven't replaced the windows yet, but basically gutted everything else. Full rewire, replumb (including the outside pipes for bathroom), dry wall insulation, attic insulation, new water tank, new inside doors (x5), new sitting room floor, full central heating system, new kitchen, all appliances, new tiled floors and carpets, labour, materials, all for €95K renovation (not incl. house itself).

It is a G or even non-rated, not sure, but it's very cosy with the curtains closed The windows for sure need replacing, but as they are sash, and huge, we can't afford that at the moment. There is no damp, and it's solid as a rock. So old houses are not necessarily bad houses, but of course will take some money to do up.