The Sinn Fein Result Thread

Inquitus

dloob wrote: »

I think SF will be very disappointed with this performance, but will put a brave face on it.
Gerry would want to watch his back after this.

Personally I think removing Gerry and replacing him with Mary Lou would immediately be reflected by a boost in the Polls.

gormdubhgorm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Well, Gerry costs them votes nationally and should be shown the door

I can see Pearse Doherty being the next leader there

Agreed, the younger elements in Sinn Fein need to have some balls and get a heave going against Gerry.
Start afresh get rid of the people tied to the past.
Then they will get a lot more votes.
Gerry is starting to remind me of CJ Haughey's comments about Chinese emperors going on forever...when asked when he would leave.

What better year to do it then the 100 year anniversary of the rising?
On Sinn Feins website they call for a "new Rising" votail Sinn Fein etc.
But the real rising needs to be within their own party.
There are plenty of reasons why Gerry must go. Any other party he would be booted out the door...years ago!

tipptom

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I should have added the whole abuse mantra to the list of reasons for a disappointing turnout!

Even FG supporters call themselves blueshirts incl close relatives and if you call that abuse you maybe to sensitive for political debate but I know you are not from the abuse you hand out to anybody who may defend the bias against SF across Boards with "Shinnerbots" name calling and the likes.

Fiskar

Inquitus wrote: »

I think the point is SF support is at or close to it's ceiling now, unless they move to the center at some point, this election is just about a perfect storm for SF with the chance to hoover up disenchanted Lab votes, and they have underperformed.

It is at its ceiling and should decline from this point onwards. They are an opposition mouthpiece and do not want the hassle of going into government.

They will spin and spin and spin this election as a great result but cannot see the wood for the trees, Grizzley is a liability and for that reason along with one leg or two legs stuck in the past will never see government nor extend their appeal further than where they are now.

There is scope for another party to be a force in politics, but I don't think SF is it. There is something shaky about the Maths.

Inquitus

Fiskar wrote: »

It is at its ceiling and should decline from this point onwards. They are an opposition mouthpiece and do not want the hassle of going into government.

They will spin and spin and spin this election as a great result but cannot see the wood for the trees, Grizzley is a liability and for that reason along with one leg or two legs stuck in the past will never see government nor extend their appeal further than where they are now.

There is scope for another party to be a force in politics, but I don't think SF is it. There is something shaky about the Maths.

I think if they replace Gerry with Mary Lou and move toward the center a bit they can grow their vote further, whether they have the appetite for that I don't know, but its too crowded out their on the far left and the prospects for further growth are slim.

Bonniedog

SF leadership - as opposed to some of the white eyed innocents they have elected as TDs - are hard nosed realists. They are not interested in being perennial losers with their noses pressed against the window watching the adults drinking brandy and ating cake! If they were, they wouldn't have accepted partition and Stormont.

Bottom line is that they know they won't get many chances to be in power in south. This may not be that chance given the numbers, but if it is an option they will accept it.

nice_guy80

Fiskar wrote: »

It is at its ceiling and should decline from this point onwards. They are an opposition mouthpiece and do not want the hassle of going into government.

They will spin and spin and spin this election as a great result but cannot see the wood for the trees, Grizzley is a liability and for that reason along with one leg or two legs stuck in the past will never see government nor extend their appeal further than where they are now.

There is scope for another party to be a force in politics, but I don't think SF is it. There is something shaky about the Maths.

Sinn Fein appeal to a lot of people for a variety of reasons.
I would never dismiss them

Bonniedog

m1ck007 wrote: »

What is this senseless bull****

The truth! Which obviously hits you where it hurts given your considered response

Elemonator

I think Bertie is right when he said Gerry held them back. Before every election, he always messes it up in the final few days. He's missed his last chance now imo. Sinn Fein need to get rid of the old guard, much like FG and FF.

tabby aspreme

Inquitus wrote: »

I think if they replace Gerry with Mary Lou and move toward the center a bit they can grow their vote further, whether they have the appetite for that I don't know, but its too crowded out their on the far left and the prospects for further growth are slim.

I think SF would find it very hard to move towards the centre, or to admit to doing so, they would then have to live off middle management wages not the average industrial wage and they could never handle sums that large. On a more serious note I don't think SF can go much further unless they start to put forward candidates who can speak off the cuff in interviews and debates, as most of them are shockingly poor in these situations.

Ezra Wibberley

stefanovich wrote:

No FF/FG politicians discounting it today. General evasive response is let's wait for all the results to come in.

Willie O'Dea said on RTE about half an hour ago that his party will not be going in with Fine Gael

m1ck007

Bonniedog wrote: »

The truth! Which obviously hits you where it hurts given your considered response

Nah. Youd swear the shinners control every aspect of every persons daily life in west belfast given what you have said. Pure tripe.

mada999

Inquitus wrote: »

I think the point is SF support is at or close to it's ceiling now, unless they move to the center at some point, this election is just about a perfect storm for SF with the chance to hoover up disenchanted Lab votes, and they have underperformed.

Ceiling ? Once Gerry goes the sky will be the limit me thinks...

tipptom

mada999 wrote: »

Ceiling ? Once Gerry goes the sky will be the limit me thinks...

If there was another GE in 2 months time and GAs left before the campaign started SF would gain another 12 seats in that space of time.

josephryan1989

vicwatson wrote: »

Have they not increased their seats by a minimum of 7, good result I think

Why didn't they get the vote that went to FF, Ind and others? Surely SF would have made much more headway?

SF would have made more progress if they had dumped Gerry Adams who was arrested in connection to the Jean McConville killing, was witness in sex abuse trial in which it was revealed he knew his brother was having sex with his niece and covered it up, defended Slab Murphy a known gangster as a "good" republican, who called for the SCC to be abolished hot on the heels of a high profile gangland shooting etc etc etc.

You couldn't make it up!

What the hell are SF doing clinging on to this idiot?

If they want to remain a minority party and want to remain a party of protest they can keep Adams.

If they want to leave the Troubles behind why can't they get rid of him and "move on"?

They could have got the FF vote but they didn't.

tmh106

tabby aspreme wrote: »

On a more serious note I don't think SF can go much further unless they start to put forward candidates who can speak off the cuff in interviews and debates, as most of them are shockingly poor in these situations.

Not a SF supporter, far from it, I don't think I'll ever be able to give them a first preference, or anywhere close. But I have got to say that any of the younger southern generation of SF TD/candidates I have seen on TV have impressed me with their ability to hold there own in TV/radio discussions. By contrast I find some of the junior/non-ministerial members of government and opposition parties often disappointing in this regard.

josephryan1989

tmh106 wrote: »

Not a SF supporter, far from it, I don't think I'll ever be able to give them a first preference, or anywhere close. But I have got to say that any of the younger southern generation of SF TD/candidates I have seen on TV have impressed me with their ability to hold there own in TV/radio discussions. By contrast I find some of the junior/non-ministerial members of government and opposition parties often disappointing in this regard.

It is mind-boggling why they haven't ditched Adams and told the paramilitaries where to go.

K-9

They seem to have reached a ceiling with the Presidential, local and this election. Did well in Europe elections and will be disappointed they lost that momentum and FF got it, they had a chance to become the second biggest party over the last term.

Gerry holds them back, poor debater and terrible with figures.

hmmm

tmh106 wrote: »

But I have got to say that any of the younger southern generation of SF TD/candidates I have seen on TV have impressed me with their ability to hold there own in TV/radio discussions.

They have had a lot of expensive media training, and do come across very well - however that they rarely answer a question directly, and essentially have a list of talking points that they recite. It's a very simple media strategy that works very well, as long as they avoid going in front of a good interviewer.

ThisRegard

hmmm wrote: »

They have had a lot of expensive media training, and do come across very well - however that they rarely answer a question directly, and essentially have a list of talking points that they recite. It's a very simple media strategy that works very well, as long as they avoid going in front of a good interviewer.

As evident by Mary Lou answering evey question with the phrase "Can I just answer that question.. ", and then doesn't. It's an obvious tactic of hers.

She tried it again with Clare Byrne this morning who cut her off by asking her not to try run the clock down again.

oscarBravo

K-9 wrote: »

Gerry holds them back, poor debater...

"Who is Senator Cahill?"

hmmm wrote: »

They have had a lot of expensive media training, and do come across very well - however that they rarely answer a question directly, and essentially have a list of talking points that they recite. It's a very simple media strategy that works very well, as long as they avoid going in front of a good interviewer.

I think it was Miriam O'Callaghan last night who said to Eoin Ó Broin: that's a fascinating answer, but it's not an answer to the question I asked.

tabby aspreme

tmh106 wrote: »

Not a SF supporter, far from it, I don't think I'll ever be able to give them a first preference, or anywhere close. But I have got to say that any of the younger southern generation of SF TD/candidates I have seen on TV have impressed me with their ability to hold there own in TV/radio discussions. By contrast I find some of the junior/non-ministerial members of government and opposition parties often disappointing in this regard.

From what I have heard from them being interviewed, they answer most questions with talking about water charges and hospital waiting lists irrespective of what the original question was , the best moment for SF in the whole campaign was GA pulling Enda up over his direct involvement in political appointments.

jimmycrackcorm

Marty Lou can be the next Joan. Just adjust your volume treble and you can get the same comforting screech.

K-9

oscarBravo wrote: »

"Who is Senator Cahill?"



I think it was Miriam O'Callaghan last night who said to Eoin Ó Broin: that's a fascinating answer, but it's not an answer to the question I asked.

Carthy was at it today. Dooley of FF had him on the Good Republican and Carthy avoided the questions with waffling.

In fairness all politicians do it.

Red Kev

Stats don't lie, and yes, it's true that the SF vote is up 40% on the last GE. I personally wouldn't use the LE or Euros as a guide as these are often used as a stick to beat the current government with. So, yes. On that score this GE was good to SF.

However, when you consider that they spent most of last summer on near 25%, and in January were hitting 18-20% , then this election has a lot of disappointment for them. They won't be happy with a collapse in their vote and TBH I'd lay most of that squarely at the door of Gerry Adams.

He is a liability for them. I'm in my 40's, I've always voted left/ecological both here and the 17 years I lived abroad, but i'd never vote SF so long as Adams is in charge.

Added to this the fact that the three TV debates are becoming more important in many ways than normal electioneering, and Adams' poor performances, I think he is a liability to SF. You also need to consider if FG had had Coveney or Varadker in there instead of the very weak Kenny, he would have been destroyed.

Adams won't be going anywhere in 2016, possibly next year, but not this year. They need ot replace him urgently if they want to make a serious breakthrough in politics in the Rep. of Ireland.

The biggest threat to SF is now the AAA. Paul Murphy has now said that he is going to target SF and he will do damage to them (though why Murphy is intent on destroying all left wing parties is beyond me, he has a huge ego, but he's hell bent on cannibalising the left).

Have SF reached a ceiling? I don't think so, but I think FF will remain in opposition and wait in the long grass to have a real go at FG, when we will then revert to the old FG-FF-FG-FF pass the parcel game.

The thing is that we now have a heavily divided left in Irish politics, there are simply too many smaller parties, with leaders of various ego sizes to make some kind of amalgamted group, so SF are essentially fighting for space here, and this won't help them either.

If SF do intend hitting 30% at some stage in the polls to ensure they get to be largest party in the state they need to start dumping their connections to the old IRA crowd. As to whether their backers in Belfast will allow that to happen, and if they do, when they allow this to happen remains to be seen.

Bonniedog

m1ck007 wrote: »

Nah. Youd swear the shinners control every aspect of every persons daily life in west belfast given what you have said. Pure tripe.

They try to! Have controlled the area politically for last 30 years and are in government and not done a thing to improve the place. Fact, my friend.

Ren2k7

oscarBravo wrote: »

I think it was Miriam O'Callaghan last night who said to Eoin Ó Broin: that's a fascinating answer, but it's not an answer to the question I asked.

That's Miriam's stock answer to everything. An empty headed idiot who has no business commenting on politics. Stick to interviewing celebs love.

Elsewhere SF on 21 seats and looking at a minimum of 23. I realise it's fashionable among some here to write off the party but a collapse? Hmm, you might want to look at Lab for an example of a real collapse.

I will concede one point though, Adams probably should step down now.

Bonniedog wrote: »

They try to! Have controlled the area politically for last 30 years and are in government and not done a thing to improve the place. Fact, my friend.

Do you live in West Belfast?

oscarBravo

Ren2k7 wrote: »

That's Miriam's stock answer to everything. An empty headed idiot who has no business commenting on politics. Stick to interviewing celebs love.

She seems to have touched a nerve, alright.

Ren2k7

oscarBravo wrote: »

She seems to have touched a nerve, alright.

Has she?

shugy

If Gerry Adams walked on water, a large % of the thick Irish people would say its because he can't swim even thou he's probably a good swimmer at that. Ya just couldn't make the bullsh1t up that comes out of the mouths of the people coming up to this election!

josephryan1989

SF would be foolish to stay in opposition.

The economy is recovering however slowly and FF rode the wave of recovery last time in 1997 to unseat FG and Lab.

If the economy picks up and there is more employment and money in the pot to spend on services and infrastructure SF are going to be left behind.

If they go into government they can take credit for the recovery.

They are in the Stormont Assembly with the DUP so why not in government in the south with either FG or FF. If they don't want to be the "Troubles" party now is their chance.

Ditch Adams and get on with it FFS!

Busterie

Of course Doherty will get no doubt the godfathers in Belfast would tolerate a woman like Mary Lou

tipptom

As I said its the usual anti SF thread with the mods rowing in behind.


All masquerading as a thread about SF "collapsing", now that this has been pointed out to be complete bull it has turned in to an anti SF thread about SF reaching a "ceiling", absolute laughable and all backed up by biased anti SF boards mods threatening people who show this up for what it is.


Nothing has been shown by any one to show this collapse so it just turns in to personal insults by anti SF potters and mods.


I would like to see a breakdown on the warnings handed out from Boards Mods to SF defenders and to the opposing side because it has become absolutely shocking the bias through out the run up to this election and no answers or replys to any appeals.


The personal abuse that one has to take from anti SFs on boards with absolutely nothing done about it is disgraceful.


The ban will come in now but nothing else can be expected when one side is being suppressed by shockingly biased moderation.

K-9

Ah Jaysus, mods are allowed opinions too. Btw many SF voters also know Gerry is a problem for them long term, that's reasonable analysis, not bias.

Sleepy

I'd never vote for Sinn Fein but you couldn't call this a "collapse" more like a hitting of the ceiling. I know a few people who'd vote for them if Adams wasn't the party leader and a more who'd give them preferences if they cleaned house and let those with criminal pasts retire... I know far more, however, who will never give them anything.

Like it or not, to many of us, the party have no place in the politics of the Republic of Ireland: they're an import from another with a shady past espousing policies that fly in the face of their actions in government their own country and that are as realistic as those of a drunk first year sociology and politics student.

If they were ever going to have their moment, this was it: a country that's seen almost a decade of recession with the beginnings of a recovery that hasn't yet been experienced by those lacking the education to see beyond their simplistic propaganda. The problem for SF is always likely to be getting enough of the ne'er do wells that support them when polled to get off their arse and cast a vote for them.

Get rid of Gerry and the rest of the former terrorists and the numbers may raise a bit but there's a definite plateau they'll never break through. A merger of FF / FG might help them in the absence of other new parties but it seems patently clear that those parties will ignore the public desire for them to do so.

CFlat

tipptom wrote: »

As I said its the usual anti SF thread with the mods rowing in behind.


All masquerading as a thread about SF "collapsing", now that this has been pointed out to be complete bull it has turned in to an anti SF thread about SF reaching a "ceiling", absolute laughable and all backed up by biased anti SF boards mods threatening people who show this up for what it is.


Nothing has been shown by any one to show this collapse so it just turns in to personal insults by anti SF potters and mods.


I would like to see a breakdown on the warnings handed out from Boards Mods to SF defenders and to the opposing side because it has become absolutely shocking the bias through out the run up to this election and no answers or replys to any appeals.


The personal abuse that one has to take from anti SFs on boards with absolutely nothing done about it is disgraceful.


The ban will come in now but nothing else can be expected when one side is being suppressed by shockingly biased moderation.

I was on Boards on Saturday as the realisation that the parties I voted for were taking a very serious hammering. The abuse that was shelled out to me and others by FG/Lab supporters was fairly nasty. I don't know how many times lemons and tasting were put in the same sentence. So spare us the poor me spiel. Ye really are a sensitive bunch.

And mods are human too, apparently.

Why aren't you celebrating instead of complaining anyway?

tipptom

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd never vote for Sinn Fein but you couldn't call this a "collapse" more like a hitting of the ceiling. I know a few people who'd vote for them if Adams wasn't the party leader and a more who'd give them preferences if they cleaned house and let those with criminal pasts retire... I know far more, however, who will never give them anything.

Like it or not, to many of us, the party have no place in the politics of the Republic of Ireland: they're an import from another with a shady past espousing policies that fly in the face of their actions in government their own country and that are as realistic as those of a drunk first year sociology and politics student.

If they were ever going to have their moment, this was it: a country that's seen almost a decade of recession with the beginnings of a recovery that hasn't yet been experienced by those lacking the education to see beyond their simplistic propaganda. The problem for SF is always likely to be getting enough of the ne'er do wells that support them when polled to get off their arse and cast a vote for them.

Get rid of Gerry and the rest of the former terrorists and the numbers may raise a bit but there's a definite plateau they'll never break through. A merger of FF / FG might help them in the absence of other new parties but it seems patently clear that those parties will ignore the public desire for them to do so.

That is just shocking what you have put down there and as near to a hate speech that I have seen on here and that's going some and you should retract it.

Ren2k7

josephryan1989 wrote: »

SF would be foolish to stay in opposition.

Why? SF have seen what happens to junior parties in govt and have wisely decided to stay well away from government. And let's be honest, the only reason why many anti-SF posters here want to see them enter govt with FF is to see the same destruction fall on them as it did on Labour. SF and Adams are too clever to fall into that trap.

Lockstep

tipptom wrote: »

As I said its the usual anti SF thread with the mods rowing in behind.


All masquerading as a thread about SF "collapsing", now that this has been pointed out to be complete bull it has turned in to an anti SF thread about SF reaching a "ceiling", absolute laughable and all backed up by biased anti SF boards mods threatening people who show this up for what it is.


Nothing has been shown by any one to show this collapse so it just turns in to personal insults by anti SF potters and mods.


I would like to see a breakdown on the warnings handed out from Boards Mods to SF defenders and to the opposing side because it has become absolutely shocking the bias through out the run up to this election and no answers or replys to any appeals.


The personal abuse that one has to take from anti SFs on boards with absolutely nothing done about it is disgraceful.


The ban will come in now but nothing else can be expected when one side is being suppressed by shockingly biased moderation.

If you have a problem with the moderation, take it to the Feedback forum. Don't throw around claims of bias, especially not on the moderators. Please read the Forum Charter before commenting here again. Otherwise, you'll be taking a break from the forum for breach of the rules.

K-9

Ren2k7 wrote: »

Why? SF have seen what happens to junior parties in govt and have wisely decided to stay well away from government. And let's be honest, the only reason why many anti-SF posters here want to see them enter govt with FF is to see the same destruction fall on them as it did on Labour. SF and Adams are too clever to fall into that trap.

I think FF and SF could work but the problem is they are too far short of the majority. The seats needed would be left though so it would be much easier for SF to get more included in a programme for Government than Labour did last time. FF would need more or less the same amount of Left TD's as they have themselves.

Ren2k7

K-9 wrote: »

I think FF and SF could work but the problem is they are too far short of the majority. The seats needed would be left though so it would be much easier for SF to get more included in a programme for Government than Labour did last time. FF would need more or less the same amount of Left TD's as they have themselves.

There's a lot of talk here about SF entering govt with FF. There are multiple problems with this. Firstly FF don't WANT to team up with SF, they are even more opposed to sharing power with them than SF going up with FF.

Secondly they are radically opposed on many issues. FF are a centre right populist party closer ideologically to FG.

Finally why should SF even be required to enter Govt like so many are saying? For most FGers they want to see a FF/SF/others govt in the hope that the same fate will befall SF as it did Labour. SF have no intentions of being someone else's mudguards, in a government that they'd have little influence over.

johnnyskeleton

Ren2k7 wrote: »

Finally why should SF even be required to enter Govt like so many are saying? For most FGers they want to see a FF/SF/others govt in the hope that the same fate will befall SF as it did Labour. SF have no intentions of being someone else's mudguards, in a government that they'd have little influence over.

Its pretty appalling for all parties concerned that they want to be elected to opposition but not to form a coalition majoirty and so a government.

The numbers favour FF and FG so my primary criticism would be of them if they refuse to form a government. However, I dont think its a legitimate position for SF to take that they will only ever enter government as the majority party. If the people of Ireland vote the numbers for any party in coalition, they should at least consider it and have plausible reasons for not doing so beyond "we dont want to risk losing our seats".

josephryan1989

Ren2k7 wrote: »

There's a lot of talk here about SF entering govt with FF. There are multiple problems with this. Firstly FF don't WANT to team up with SF, they are even more opposed to sharing power with them than SF going up with FF.

Secondly they are radically opposed on many issues. FF are a centre right populist party closer ideologically to FG.

Finally why should SF even be required to enter Govt like so many are saying? For most FGers they want to see a FF/SF/others govt in the hope that the same fate will befall SF as it did Labour. SF have no intentions of being someone else's mudguards, in a government that they'd have little influence over.

If you are given a mandate you should seek to be in government and when in government the biggest party obviously holds the balance of power and calls the shots. In opposition you can do nothing. Simple as that.

Ren2k7

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Its pretty appalling for all parties concerned that they want to be elected to opposition but not to form a coalition majoirty and so a government.

The numbers favour FF and FG so my primary criticism would be of them if they refuse to form a government. However, I dont think its a legitimate position for SF to take that they will only ever enter government as the majority party. If the people of Ireland vote the numbers for any party in coalition, they should at least consider it and have plausible reasons for not doing so beyond "we dont want to risk losing our seats".

I fail to see why it's now suddenly such a major issue for you or many others here. Would you suggest it's incumbent on AAA-PBP to enter government despite only having 5 seats? Sometimes a party feels they can achieve more on the opposition benches than in government, ie, in a watchdog role holding the government to account. Mick Wallace, love or loath him arguably achieved more in his whistle-blower role than as a government minister.

Ren2k7

josephryan1989 wrote: »

If you are given a mandate you should seek to be in government and when in government the biggest party obviously holds the balance of power and calls the shots. In opposition you can do nothing. Simple as that.

Were SF given a "mandate"? Remember that the Dáil, not the people decide the composition of the cabinet and could, theoretically appoint the entire government with members exclusively from Labour, AAA-PBP, the Greens and Indos.

What exactly are you trying to argue for here anyway? That SF has some moral obligation to enter govt? Firstly you and quite a few here despite SF so I fail to see why you're now pushing for their involvement in govt. The real reason why so many FGers want SF to enter govt is to see them suffer the same fate that has traditionally befallen junior parties in Irish politics. If you're going to advocate SF entering with FF then at least be honest about it instead of dressing it up as some sort of moral or patriotic requirement for SF to do so.

feargale

There are only four possibilities:
1. FG/Lab./Others ( I'd say about 50/1 from Paddy Power)
2. FG minority ( for 12 months)
3. FG/FF
4. FF/SF/others.

Whichever it is, in the event of a second election, woe betide the party that is seen by the people to have refused to step up.

blackwhite

feargale wrote: »

Whichever it is, in the event of a second election, woe betide the party that is seen by the people to have refused to step up.

I'm not so sure on this TBH

There appears to be a sizeable chunk of the electorate who's expectation of their representatives is to shout, complain, protest and be as angry as possible, without actually doing a whole lot of substance.
Paul Murphy (and I'm no means restricting this to Murphy - he's just a convenient example), since his election, has on numerous occasions made statements to the effect that he was elected to "break the law" and just generally make a nuisance of himself. He's made it perfectly clear that he doesn't see his role as actually making contributions in the legislature, it's making as much noise as possible, channeling anger, and sticking it to "the establishment."
Despite making it clear he never had any intention of ever going anywhere near the levers of power, he was re-elected. So clearly, there's a chunk of the electorate who don't expect their representatives to step up, just to make a lot of noise.

Sleepy

tipptom wrote: »

That is just shocking what you have put down there and as near to a hate speech that I have seen on here and that's going some and you should retract it.

My analysis that a large amount of the support for Sinn Fein is from poorly educated ne'er do wells is more shocking than their history of murdering innocents, protection of paedophiles and rapists, support for Garda killers and calls to remove one of the best weapons our justice system has in it's fight against organised crime? :rolleyes:

b1964

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd never vote for Sinn Fein but you couldn't call this a "collapse" more like a hitting of the ceiling. I know a few people who'd vote for them if Adams wasn't the party leader and a more who'd give them preferences if they cleaned house and let those with criminal pasts retire... I know far more, however, who will never give them anything.

Like it or not, to many of us, the party have no place in the politics of the Republic of Ireland: they're an import from another with a shady past espousing policies that fly in the face of their actions in government their own country and that are as realistic as those of a drunk first year sociology and politics student.

If they were ever going to have their moment, this was it: a country that's seen almost a decade of recession with the beginnings of a recovery that hasn't yet been experienced by those lacking the education to see beyond their simplistic propaganda. The problem for SF is always likely to be getting enough of the ne'er do wells that support them when polled to get off their arse and cast a vote for them.

Get rid of Gerry and the rest of the former terrorists and the numbers may raise a bit but there's a definite plateau they'll never break through. A merger of FF / FG might help them in the absence of other new parties but it seems patently clear that those parties will ignore the public desire for them to do so.

So what would you say/call the voters who voted for the corrupt Michael Lowry?? are these lacking education to see through his propaganda?

johnnyskeleton

Ren2k7 wrote: »

I fail to see why it's now suddenly such a major issue for you or many others here. Would you suggest it's incumbent on AAA-PBP to enter government despite only having 5 seats? Sometimes a party feels they can achieve more on the opposition benches than in government, ie, in a watchdog role holding the government to account. Mick Wallace, love or loath him arguably achieved more in his whistle-blower role than as a government minister.

So could we have 158 Opposition Deputies and no government? Because that is the logical result if people vote for people who want to be in opposition but don't want to be in government.