The Sinn Fein Result Thread

josephryan1989

eire4 wrote: »

Indeed coalition governments are likely to remain the norm in Ireland for the forseeable future. I would imagine Sinn Fein are looking to build themselves to a point where they could be the majority party in a coalition.

Which means they will have to make compromises and break some promises and spend some political capital just like the other political parties? Gosh.

eire4

josephryan1989 wrote: »

Which means they will have to make compromises and break some promises and spend some political capital just like the other political parties? Gosh.

Well I have long maintained that power in Ireland is way to centralised and dangerously so. We need real reform to our system of government and a decentralisation of power shoud be part of that IMHO.

Godge

josephryan1989 wrote: »

And what makes you think they still won't catch fleas? Tides come in and out and governments come and go and parties will be clobbered if they don't deliver. That's just a fact of life in politics. Do SF think they are special or something?

Most of their supporters are special.

nice_guy80

Sinn Fein know they would get decimated at next election if they go near government as the minor party - see labour, PD, greens

You can only be the party of No for so long.
Same happened in the north eg Ulster Says No

Fr Tod Umptious

Jayop wrote: »

FFG go into government for the first time ever then you'll have a proper left which will be able to grow. Labour never allowed that to happen because they were tripping over themselves to get some ministerial pensions lined up every time the opportunity arose. Labour did no favours to the left by propping up RW governments time after time. A full on LW opposition will grow by the next election.

I think that's a bit harsh on Labour.
Ministerial pensions where not the main think on their minds going into government, if they were even on their minds at all.

Labour went into government because it gave them a chance to have influence.

Unlike the current rabble of the left they were never afraid of standing up and being counted.

josephryan1989

eire4 wrote: »

Well I have long maintained that power in Ireland is way to centralised and dangerously so. We need real reform to our system of government and a decentralisation of power shoud be part of that IMHO.

I agree. Our local government (which we inherited incidentally from the British) has been gutted. Small towns the length of the country which once had mayors and councils and could raise monies independently of central government have been stripped of local democracy. Regional Health Boards also should never have been abolished. Local taxes should be imposed by local bodies and ringfenced for local expenditure separately from national taxation and national government spending.

Mr.Micro

josephryan1989 wrote: »

I agree. Our local government (which we inherited incidentally from the British) has been gutted. Small towns the length of the country which once had mayors and councils and could raise monies independently of central government have been stripped of local democracy. Regional Health Boards also should never have been abolished. Local taxes should be imposed by local bodies and ringfenced for local expenditure separately from national taxation and national government spending.

Local taxes.... Not a hope. Irish people expect everything but will not pay, ie such as water charges etc. No local politician would risk such a measure. To my mind, half of the councils should be reduced, as many of the services they did, are now done privately or online. Water, waste, road tax and the like. The councils can't even do one of the jobs left, such as road maintenance. Massive reform is needed in local Government.

eire4

josephryan1989 wrote: »

I agree. Our local government (which we inherited incidentally from the British) has been gutted. Small towns the length of the country which once had mayors and councils and could raise monies independently of central government have been stripped of local democracy. Regional Health Boards also should never have been abolished. Local taxes should be imposed by local bodies and ringfenced for local expenditure separately from national taxation and national government spending.

I would agree with that. We need a complete overhaul of how power is distributed and by whom and where taxation is allocated to fund the various functions of government. Local government in Ireland is pretty non existant at this point as more and more power gets centralized. This is not good for democracy in Ireland and is potentially very dangerous.

piuswal

Quote:
Originally Posted by josephryan1989 View Post
I agree. Our local government (which we inherited incidentally from the British) has been gutted. Small towns the length of the country which once had mayors and councils and could raise monies independently of central government have been stripped of local democracy. Regional Health Boards also should never have been abolished. Local taxes should be imposed by local bodies and ringfenced for local expenditure separately from national taxation and national government spending.

Quote;
I would agree with that. We need a complete overhaul of how power is distributed and by whom and where taxation is allocated to fund the various functions of government. Local government in Ireland is pretty non existant at this point as more and more power gets centralized. This is not good for democracy in Ireland and is potentially very dangerous.

---

Whatever about other services surely our population is simply too small for Regional Health Boards! Everyone fighting for a centre of excellence for cancer, cardiology etc etc. How would they work?


When we had Local Authorities looking after roads look at the variations we had across the country; the NRA made huge improvements in the road infrastructure.

eire4

piuswal wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by josephryan1989 View Post
I agree. Our local government (which we inherited incidentally from the British) has been gutted. Small towns the length of the country which once had mayors and councils and could raise monies independently of central government have been stripped of local democracy. Regional Health Boards also should never have been abolished. Local taxes should be imposed by local bodies and ringfenced for local expenditure separately from national taxation and national government spending.

Quote;
I would agree with that. We need a complete overhaul of how power is distributed and by whom and where taxation is allocated to fund the various functions of government. Local government in Ireland is pretty non existant at this point as more and more power gets centralized. This is not good for democracy in Ireland and is potentially very dangerous.

---

Whatever about other services surely our population is simply too small for Regional Health Boards! Everyone fighting for a centre of excellence for cancer, cardiology etc etc. How would they work?


When we had Local Authorities looking after roads look at the variations we had across the country; the NRA made huge improvements in the road infrastructure.

Agreed on that last point. It however does not negate the fact that we have power overly centralized in Ireland to a dangerous degree.

road_high

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Sinn Fein know they would get decimated at next election if they go near government as the minor party - see labour, PD, greens

You can only be the party of No for so long.
Same happened in the north eg Ulster Says No

I've been praying since the results SF would for once show some backbone and actually govern. But alas they immediately scramble for the ease of opposition as it's all they know..SF/FF makes perfect sense to me as FF ran on a similar caring/sharing platform and together have well over 60 seats on that basis. Far more common ground than say FF/FG.
If a lot of people want SF policy and governance I don't see why they should be denied that via the obvious coaction.

Jayop

lol that's funny.

piuswal

eire4 wrote: »

Agreed on that last point. It however does not negate the fact that we have power overly centralized in Ireland to a dangerous degree.

I agree. It is a matter of deciding what though; and not the major roads and the health service.

eire4

piuswal wrote: »

I agree. It is a matter of deciding what though; and not the major roads and the health service.

Yes I would agree that major roads should remain under a national authority and would say the same with the health service.

A Dub in Glasgo

road_high wrote: »

I've been praying since the results SF would for once show some backbone and actually govern. But alas they immediately scramble for the ease of opposition as it's all they know..SF/FF makes perfect sense to me

Have a check of the numbers and then come back to us demonstrating how that would work

Jayop

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Have a check of the numbers and then come back to us demonstrating how that would work

They all know it can't work, but it's a distraction and they'll keep throwing it till after the next election at least.

K-9

Jayop wrote: »

They all know it can't work, but it's a distraction and they'll keep throwing it till after the next election at least.

The inter party Government worked in 48, National Coalition in 54, the Rainbow Coalition worked,, numerous FF minority Governments worked for a while. If the will is there smaller parties can make a go of it. That will isn't there under SF.

Bonniedog

K-9 wrote: »

The inter party Government worked in 48, National Coalition in 54, the Rainbow Coalition worked,, numerous FF minority Governments worked for a while. If the will is there smaller parties can make a go of it. That will isn't there under SF.

There is an element of the Emperor's New Clothes in all of this I suspect.

SF in north have proven that they are a pretty bland middle of the road vaguely left party, and the vaguely left part is based on their simplistic liberalism about allegedly oppressed ethnic minorities, immigration etc, rather than economics.

One of reasons I suspect they will not enter government is that when they do people will realise that they are no different at all from the other main, and formerly main!, party(s).

Godge

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Have a check of the numbers and then come back to us demonstrating how that would work

There are lots of ways it could work.



FF plus SF = 67

Add in SD and Greens = 72

Independent Alliance = 78

FF/SF Gene Pool Independents (Healy-Raes, Mattie McGrath and Pringle) = 82

You could substitute Labour or AAA/PBP for SD/Greens or Independent Alliance and you could get up to 84.

All it takes is SF showing they have the balls for the hard decisions.

FF/SF/Lab plus Healy-Raes, Pringle and McGrath gives you 78. Lowry, Collins and Harty, all open to a deal get you to 81

Bonniedog

If Martin has the balls and the poker sense he will offer SF and the leftie indos and gene pool a list of stuff like abolishing Irish Water, a few republicanny type gestures, and immediate housing programme and promise to do them all within a year say.

That would be a game changer!

Fr Tod Umptious

Bonniedog wrote: »

If Martin has the balls and the poker sense he will offer SF and the leftie indos and gene pool a list of stuff like abolishing Irish Water, a few republicanny type gestures, and immediate housing programme and promise to do them all within a year say.

That would be a game changer!

Depends on how much he wants to be Taoiseach and what the risk to reward is.

He can offer them all that in the knowledge that but the knowns that he can't deliver all that.

So when someone cuts and runs will he be in a better situation than when he started.

A Dub in Glasgo

Godge wrote: »

There are lots of ways it could work.



FF plus SF = 67

Add in SD and Greens = 72

Independent Alliance = 78

FF/SF Gene Pool Independents (Healy-Raes, Mattie McGrath and Pringle) = 82

You could substitute Labour or AAA/PBP for SD/Greens or Independent Alliance and you could get up to 84.

All it takes is SF showing they have the balls for the hard decisions.

FF/SF/Lab plus Healy-Raes, Pringle and McGrath gives you 78. Lowry, Collins and Harty, all open to a deal get you to 81

Lots of ways eh? Why not get everyone in the Dail to form the Government, would that work as well?

Much easier for FF + FG to form the Government!