I wonder when did irish people start using baby formula

Speedsie

My father was born in the late 1920s and was free on Cow & Gate formula.

My mother was born in the late 30s, and as her mother's milk didn't come in, a local nursing mother breast fed her for a couple of months, then she was moved to cow's milk.

My mother had TB when she was younger, so was told she couldn't breastfeed.

havana

sullivlo wrote: »

Breastfeeding is obviously best practice. However it's not always possible for whatever reason. So formulas are an adequate replacement.

Not really comparing like with like though with your McDonald's. Maybe compare home cooked pasta sauce made with tomatoes, to a jar of dolmio.

The point being made was that the child is fed, that's good enough. My point is that just being fed is not good enough.

I won't claim that formula is not adequate.

It saddens me that support for BFing is so poor in this country. The early days are not always easy but I would venture that if more woman had the support they needed in that time and knew what to expect and what was normal ( the constant feeding for example) that many more would have a successful BF journey.

All too often artificial milk is seen as the solution to a breastfeeding problem when chances are there is a breasting solution that would mean it could continue.

While I was pregnant I ready every single piece of info I could so when I hit those bumps I knew what was going on, knew it would get easier. I also sought out supports. That info and those supports should be more readily available.

sullivlo

havana wrote: »

The point being made was that the child is fed, that's good enough. My point is that just being fed is not good enough.

I won't claim that formula is not adequate.

It saddens me that support for BFing is so poor in this country. The early days are not always easy but I would venture that if more woman had the support they needed in that time and knew what to expect and what was normal ( the constant feeding for example) that many more would have a successful BF journey.

All too often artificial milk is seen as the solution to a breastfeeding problem when chances are there is a breasting solution that would mean it could continue.

While I was pregnant I ready every single piece of info I could so when I hit those bumps I knew what was going on, knew it would get easier. I also sought out supports. That info and those supports should be more readily available.

The boldest bit is a bit of a contradiction.

Agree with the rest. I'm sure if there was more support available it would help people.

However it doesn't suit everyone. As many in this thread have shared their stories of how difficult they found it, despite being supported.

And there are circumstances where BF is just not possible!

bee06

I was born in the 80's and breastfed along with all my brothers and sisters. My mother was a midwife though so maybe that had something to do with it or maybe it's because we live in the country.

My friend recently had a baby and has been sharing a lot of breastfeeding info on Facebook and the whole thing is fascinating (to me anyway). Like how the milk changes if the baby is sick and as it gets older. I think I read that breastfeeding can lower the chances of getting breast cancer as well.

I don't have children but when I do I hopefully will breastfeed. It's good to know that I have my mom who's gone through it there if I need support.

meeeeh

I must say I am exactly opposite. I prefer stumbling around and going with the flow. Then when hiccups occur you don't feel like a complete failure.

I actually think that is the problem better educated older mothers have. They read the literature, plan birthing experience to the smallest detail and know already what are they doing after birth. Then the home birth with calming classic music becomes premature c section and the only way breastfeeding would be ever possible is with expressing milk first for weeks or even months which is very hard. And then the joy of having a baby becomes a feeling of inadequacy. Sometimes just going with the flow is the best. (Maybe don't do what I did last time when I still had to process the wages for employees and pack the bag for hospital after my waters broke).

I do believe breastfeeding is the most natural way to feed the baby. And because it's the most natural there should be very little fuss around it. Positive or negative.

sullivlo

bee06 wrote: »

I was born in the 80's and breastfed along with all my brothers and sisters. My mother was a midwife though so maybe that had something to do with it or maybe it's because we live in the country.

My friend recently had a baby and has been sharing a lot of breastfeeding info on Facebook and the whole thing is fascinating (to me anyway). Like how the milk changes if the baby is sick and as it gets older. I think I read that breastfeeding can lower the chances of getting breast cancer as well.

I don't have children but when I do I hopefully will breastfeed. It's good to know that I have my mom who's gone through it there if I need support.

You did. Stimulates the expression of alpha-lactalbumin in the mammary gland. They're not entirely sure why that reduces the chance of developing breast cancer, but potentially that a cancer reducing complex is formed in the milk duct.

The complex: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAMLET_(protein_complex)

And I can defo answer questions on that bad boy as it was pretty much my entire thesis

(I looked at its potential formation in the stomach of breast fed infants.)

havana

sullivlo wrote: »

The boldest bit is a bit of a contradiction.

Agree with the rest. I'm sure if there was more support available it would help people.

However it doesn't suit everyone. As many in this thread have shared their stories of how difficult they found it, despite being supported.

And there are circumstances where BF is just not possible!

Fair point, I probably phrased it badly. Formula is an adequate alternative but can not give all the benefits that Breastmilk does

There are of course circumstances where women are unable to breastfeed, no matter what supports might be available, but that number is a lot lower than the number who chose to not BF.

And that choice is free for everyone to make - I just wonder is it always an informed one considering how little information is readily available - and the often negative slant that the information that is available can take.

havana

meeeeh wrote: »

I must say I am exactly opposite. I prefer stumbling around and going with the flow. Then when hiccups occur you don't feel like a complete failure.

I actually think that is the problem better educated older mothers have. They read the literature, plan birthing experience to the smallest detail and know already what are they doing after birth. Then the home birth with calming classic music becomes premature c section and the only way breastfeeding would be ever possible is with expressing milk first for weeks or even months which is very hard. And then the joy of having a baby becomes a feeling of inadequacy. Sometimes just going with the flow is the best. (Maybe don't do what I did last time when I still had to process the wages for employees and pack the bag for hospital after my waters broke).

I do believe breastfeeding is the most natural way to feed the baby. And because it's the most natural there should be very little fuss around it. Positive or negative.

As an older educated mother I totally disagree ðŸ˜႒ Knowing what might happen meant I didn't feel inadequate when it didn't go 'textbook'.

I never considered feeding my baby any other way. I wouldn't have known how to make a bottle when I left hospital.

We have moved so far away from BFing being the norm in Ireland that we have to make a bit of a fuss about it - hopefully some day we won't!

Tasden

I feel so sad that mothers are being judged either way.

How a mother chooses to feed their child is nobody else's business.
Mothers in Ireland are given all the advice and literature (and lecturing) in the world about breastfeeding and how breast is best, whether they choose to BF or not, you can be guaranteed they know all the facts about it and have made an informed decision. So why exactly they made their decision is nobody else's business. Making them feel bad for it is just plain rude.
Equally, if a mother is breastfeeding and you find it "icky" or uncomfortable then that is your own problem that you need to get over.

I really feel there is a lot of judgement on both sides and it is very unfair on mothers who are doing their best and making the best decisions for themselves and their baby and the last thing they need is judgement, especially those who have chosen to BF and for whatever reason were unable to. I can only imagine how disappointing that could be at such an emotional time that is full of expectation and pressure generally.

Neyite

havana wrote: »

It saddens me that support for BFing is so poor in this country. The early days are not always easy but I would venture that if more woman had the support they needed in that time and knew what to expect and what was normal ( the constant feeding for example) that many more would have a successful BF journey.

It wont always be that way though. Attitudes are changing a lot. Even in the last 15 years, I can see a big difference. I see it in my family where we can feed in front of the men and its as normal as having a cup of tea. They dont even bat an eyelid when we begin to feed. My mother who was told that even looking at her own breasts in the mirror required confession of a sin is now our biggest supporters in breastfeeding - is hugely proud all her grandchildren were breastfed. Our sons saw their siblings feed at the breast of their mothers, and will have a healthy normal attitude towards it when they maybe become parents and be supportive to their partner. Grannies will be supportive and encouraging and pass on knowledge to their daughters and daughters in law. And knowing its ok to tell a new mum that she really did her best and not coming down on her with disapproval for switching to a perfectly adequate substitute. It really comes about by fostering acceptance both of breastfeeding and of formula feeding.

Tasden

Neyite wrote: »

It wont always be that way though. Attitudes are changing a lot. Even in the last 15 years, I can see a big difference. I see it in my family where we can feed in front of the men and its as normal as having a cup of tea. They dont even bat an eyelid when we begin to feed. My mother who was told that even looking at her own breasts in the mirror required confession of a sin is now our biggest supporters in breastfeeding - is hugely proud all her grandchildren were breastfed. Our sons saw their siblings feed at the breast of their mothers, and will have a healthy normal attitude towards it when they maybe become parents and be supportive to their partner. Grannies will be supportive and encouraging and pass on knowledge to their daughters and daughters in law. And knowing its ok to tell a new mum that she really did her best and not coming down on her with disapproval for switching to a perfectly adequate substitute. It really comes about by fostering acceptance both of breastfeeding and of formula feeding.

Lovely post

meeeeh

havana wrote: »

We have moved so far away from BFing being the norm in Ireland that we have to make a bit of a fuss about it - hopefully some day we won't!

It's not working though. It's just an opportunity to feel smug or inadequate.

As far as I know HSE had very little success with ramming pamphlets down people's throats.

Neyite

sullivlo wrote: »

You did. Stimulates the expression of alpha-lactalbumin in the mammary gland. They're not entirely sure why that reduces the chance of developing breast cancer, but potentially that a cancer reducing complex is formed in the milk duct.

The complex: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAMLET_(protein_complex)

And I can defo answer questions on that bad boy as it was pretty much my entire thesis

(I looked at its potential formation in the stomach of breast fed infants.)

I'm loving your posts on this thread

I remember swotting up a bit on breast milk at the time but that was about 4 years ago and I had baby brain, I loved the science behind breastmilk production, the instinctual things that happen. Our bodies are actually pretty amazing to give birth and do all that too

Das Kitty

I think, like other things, it's a woman's right to choose what happens to her body, and it's nobody's business how or why.

It sometimes surprises me when people who support a woman's right to choose with regard to pregnancy, get preachy about women not breastfeeding.

I'm not talking about anyone on this thread, btw, it's something I noted during a real life convo recently.

sullivlo

Neyite wrote: »

I'm loving your posts on this thread

I remember swotting up a bit on breast milk at the time but that was about 4 years ago and I had baby brain, I loved the science behind breastmilk production, the instinctual things that happen. Our bodies are actually pretty amazing to give birth and do all that too

I'll forward you on my thesis

Our bodies really, really are amazing. I am blown away on a daily basis learning more and more about our bodies. How milk changes based on the child's needs is just fascinating. How intuitive things are in terms of nutrient levels. We had milk donors that donated their leftover expressed milk to us. Where baby didn't feed or was full or whatever. One donor was very thorough in how she labelled the milk - time postpartum, health of baby, time of day... We found major differences.

One of the main ones - tryptophan levels in milk expressed at evening / night. They were much higher than early in the day milk. Tryptophan is a precursor for serotonin in the body (many SSRI antidepressants share a backbone with tryptophan). Increase in serotonin increases relaxation and encourages sleep. So night milk makes sleepy baby.

(An aside - tryptophan is the predominant protein in turkey meat, hence why we all need a snooze post Christmas dinner)

(Nerd: I learned / studied a lot about tryptophan in case they asked me about my favourite amino acid in my viva. They didn't.)

Two chapters of my work focused on the formation of that complex - first was in vitro where we mimicked what happens in the tummy in a beaker in the lab. When that worked we moved onto the second - putting it into humans to see whether we could replicate it!

But that complex - HAMLET - is unreal. I'm keeping a close eye on it. Potential job in the pipeline. It's been approved for stage 2 clinical trials in humans for the treatment of skin papillomas. So they're needing people to make it and I know how they're also pushing for approval for bladder cancer and colon cancer. Still working on ways to have it active in the circulatory system as we showed it is inactivated by albumin - the predominant protein in blood.

I miss that protein. Now I'm stuck trying to cure psoriasis with seaweed!!

kylith

I was at a family do not long ago any there was a woman with an infant she was breastfeeding, which she did several times during the evening. My 73 year old dad thought it was disgusting








That she felt she had to cover herself with a wrap to do so (did I have ye going for a second ). He thought anyone who had a problem with it should get a grip and was more worried about the baby overheating than about the mother's breasts.

It was reassuring to me because when I have kids I intend to breastfeed and was a bit worried that my dad would be weird about it (daughter's breasts and all). Nice to know that under no circumstances will he allow me to be hidden away.

lazygal

I'm still breastfeeding my younger child, he is two and a half. If you'd ask me about this before having children I'd probably have thought things like 'if they're old enough to ask it's time to give it up'. I fed my first, in combination with formula, until she was 12/13 months, can't quite recall.
I was put under a lot of pressure to give formula by nurses in the hospital. I wish I'd done more research about the reality of breastfeeding before I had her because there were so many myths peddled by the nurses, about the frequency and length of feeds, the weight gain and loss etc. It was extremely stressful.
Second time I told them they could weigh him all they liked but I didn't want to know because I could see he was healthy and I knew exactly what to do.
I don't regret giving my first formula but I do regret the approach of the medical staff. They are obsessed with ounces and mls and weight, at the expense of cop on and looking at how a child is doing overall. I also had a poor experience of the public health nurse system when it came to information on breastfeeding and weaning to solids, and got advice completely contrary to WHO recommendations.

Also, I think I was really determined to breastfeed because I had c sections both times. I never planned a dream Enya-soundtrack all natural birth but I didn't see myself having such a medicalised time of it. I think in hindsight having a more natural way of feeding my babies helped with that. I found getting started with breastfeeding more difficult than recovery from the sections though!

My mother breastfed us but when I was getting started she repeated a lot of the myths about not having enough milk and getting baby onto a schedule ASAP for fear of bad habits. Now she's amazed at how I am still doing it and has changed her views on how she feels about natural weaning.

ETA: my children 'breastfeed' their dolls and teddies-they call it milkies!

Milly33

I am really shocked at some of yer stories... Feel like screaming at people for ye.. Cant believe that people would involve themselves like as mentioned a few times with breastfeeding. I do understand some people feel uncomfortable with it but then who or take yourself out of the area.....

Also with the nurses and hospitals shame on them for not providing all information to new mothers or for not advising as they should

kylith

lazygal wrote: »

They are obsessed with ounces and mls and weight, at the expense of cop on and looking at how a child is doing overall.

They drove my SiL demented with that with her youngest, saying that she wasn't as heavy as she should be but never taking into account the fact she was also shorter and smaller overall, just a petite baby. She had a good appetite and put on weight steadily, but they were obsessed with 'she should weight Xkg at 3 months'.

Neyite

Another shallow reason I loved breastfeeding because it helped me to get back into shape in record time after the birth with little effort. It helps shrink your uterus back to size again, burns a LOT of calories, and if you are small busted and the tit-fairy didn't visit you in pregnancy like you'd hoped, you can enjoy being a little bit more busty than usual for a while.

Your body goes through so many changes in such a short space of time that for some their confidence /body image takes a hit. So, while I know its a superficial reason, knowing I hadn't 'ruined' my body by birth was a lovely little self esteem boost. We wont talk about post-natal hair.

eviltwin

I didn't really enjoy breastfeeding. I felt at that stage after nine months I wanted my body back. I did try for a few weeks and found it a constant challenge. I'd done my research but nothing you read can teach you the skills. I have so much admiration for women who do it long term and make it work but it just wasn't for me. There is so much pressure to give a good enough reason why you didn't breastfeed when the decision not to should be respected regardless.

Neyite

Das Kitty wrote: »

I think, like other things, it's a woman's right to choose what happens to her body, and it's nobody's business how or why.

It sometimes surprises me when people who support a woman's right to choose with regard to pregnancy, get preachy about women not breastfeeding.

I'm not talking about anyone on this thread, btw, it's something I noted during a real life convo recently.

I think the Breastapo only damage their own cause when they do that.

We are geared to expect that maybe Granddad might be a bit embarrassed or that our MIL might make unwanted suggestions, but it really hurts when its another mother who criticises you for not doing it exactly the way that she did. It's nasty, competitive and unsupportive and often times, I think its not about breastfeeding, its more about being competitive and judgey of other mums in order to make themselves feel better. And that lot can FRO in my opinion. There is no need for it. A person can be an advocate of breastfeeding without making another mum feel like sh!t.

BoJack Horseman

Neyite wrote: »

I think the Breastapo only damage their own cause when they do that.

All credit to Godwin.... but where is this 'Brestapo'?

No nation breastfeeds less than Ireland.

It that particular war, the overwhelming victor is 'formula'.

Neyite

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

All credit to Godwin.... but where is this 'Brestapo'?

No nation breastfeeds less than Ireland.

It that particular war, the overwhelming victor is 'formula'.

Breastapo are overzealous breastfeeding types who guilt mothers who formula feed, or put pressure on women to breastfeed or continue to breastfeed irrespective of any reasons.

To give an example: A friend of mine was hounded off a Mother and Baby FB group by women I'd categorise as Breastapo because her paediatrician advised she switch to a specialist formula and feeding plan to better suit her child's digestive intolerances. There was a medical need in this case, and she was bullied and practically accused of being an awful mother and harming her child by not feeding according to their standards.

Women who get hounded like that are probably very unlikely to attempt breastfeeding with a subsequent child or children. They are probably unlikely to want to contact any breastfeeding group for advice and support for fear of getting bollocked again.

Women are not going to try breastfeeding if they are surrounded by negativity and disdain at their efforts. It's bad enough that they have to contend with outdated views in our wider communities, but when you cant even rely on getting support for your choices from other breastfeeding mums, its no wonder we have the lowest breastfeeding stats.

There are two breastfeeding groups in my area, and with nearly anyone I asked, one of them I was consistently warned off joining as they had form for being quite nasty to women who combine-fed or supplemented. The other, well the times didn't suit me. So I never went to any groups in the end.

convert

Lady is a tramp wrote: »

y
I assumed I'd breastfeed my son, I couldn't and the associated feeling of failure and inadequacy contributed to my post natal mental health issues. In hindsight he was being perfectly well nourished with formula, thank god we live in a country where it's readily available.

Even apart from not being able to breastfeed, I didn't enjoy it at all even when it worked and didn't find it convenient or comfortable. If I ever had another child, I'd maybe plan to breastfeed/express for a week or two max before switching to formula. I don't think I'd feel the slightest bit of guilt about it either, or even about going straight to formula if that were to happen. I was far too harsh on myself first time around!

By the way, I'm still COMPLETELY supportive of breastfeeding in public, extended breastfeeding, etc. I just don't think it's a choice I'd make for myself and my (imaginary future) baby.

Das Kitty wrote: »

Same. Both times.

The first time I was so determined that it would eventually work that I seriously damaged my mental health. The second time I was far calmer about giving up.

Das Kitty wrote: »

Not in my experience. It got worse and worse, and after 5 months I was profoundly depressed.

I'm not a mother, and don't envisage myself having kids, at least not in near future, and I've always found the breastfeeding ad campaign, while well-intentioned, very harsh on those who don't breastfeed. As we've seen from this thread there are lots of women who really want to breastfeed, but for various reasons aren't in a position to do so. I've always wondered what impact those ads would have on them, their mental health and their feelings of 'failure' as a mother because they can't breastfeed. Maybe I'm over sensitive, but it's the sense I took from the ads. It would never have bothered me before, so obviously I'm just now 'at that age' and noticing it more. But I did think the campaign, however well intentioned, could cause stress and anxiety in new mothers who can't breast feed.

For what it's worth, I was breast fed, but my mum was very ill after she had me, so she had to move me to formula, which I couldn't stomach at all. She then put me on cow's milk, and I really started to thrive again. I've rarely been sick, apart from the usual colds, chicken pox, etc., which we all pick up.

ETA: Just noticed your post, neyite.

BoJack Horseman

Neyite wrote: »

There are two breastfeeding groups in my area, and with nearly anyone I asked, one of them I was consistently warned off joining as they had form for being quite nasty to women who combine-fed or supplemented. The other, well the times didn't suit me. So I never went to any groups in the end.

But that didn't stop you breastfeeding did you?

As in, the NAZI secret police =/= breastfeeding zealots.

It seems to me, being the nation with the lowest amount of breastfeeding mothers, breast-feeders are the outsiders.

My wife, of our 18 month old, faced nothing but scorn from her work colleagues, both our families & some of her friends for breastfeeding.
She received no counselling or assistance from the hospital.

But she kept at it & was glad she did as the benefits are indisputable.

One can almost understand peoples zeal, I don't condone it.... but when you are the outsider, it happens.

Society treats breast feeders as an oddity, to be stared at.
It says a lot for Ireland when you are more likely to see a mother huffing a fag, shoving a bottle in a babys mouth than you are a mother breastfeeding.

IvyTheTerrible

Judgemental people on either side of the debate don't help any mothers.

/just my two cents/

eviltwin

That's just as bad Bojack. No one should be judged or made to feel bad for making the right decision for them but it's something formula users face too. That's not right either

Neyite

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

But that didn't stop you breastfeeding did you?

No, because as I explained before, I got my support from my family and friends who were veterans of breastfeeding.

It seems to me, being the nation with the lowest amount of breastfeeding mothers, breast-feeders are the outsiders.

My wife, of our 18 month old, faced nothing but scorn from her work colleagues, both our families & some of her friends for breastfeeding.
She received no counselling or assistance from the hospital.

But she kept at it & was glad she did as the benefits are indisputable.

Great that she was so strong in the face of such opposition. But it's nobody's business to comment on how ANYONE should feed their baby, other than the parents involved, and medical professionals.

One can almost understand peoples zeal, I don't condone it.... but when you are the outsider, it happens.
Society treats breast feeders as an oddity, to be stared at.

I was never treated like an oddity, or stared at, and had no remarks made to my face about breastfeeding. The only people in public that did, were supportive and encouraging.

It says a lot for Ireland when you are more likely to see a mother huffing a fag, shoving a bottle in a babys mouth than you are a mother breastfeeding.

You forgot the PJ's and the bottle of WKD in your description.

Actually, you've just proved my point above. Can we not just support breastfeeders without putting them on some Paragon of Virtue Pedestal and without slagging off Formula mums? Do we really have to support one group at the expense of the other?

Penny Dreadful

Myself and my siblings were born in the 1970s and 80s. My mother was given tablets in the maternity hospital to help to dry up her milk. Breastfeeding was never discussed or considered as an option. Fridges full of formula bottles were left on each ward and the women could help themselves for their babies as and when they needed.

My daughter is 18 months old and my attitude when pregnant was I'd like to breast feed and will give it a go and see how we get on.
I managed to feed her for a few weeks myself but due to problems with her gaining weight, the mental pressure from the nurses in the hospital and PHN (who give me no fewer than 6 different leaflets on breast feeding and each one gave contradictory advice) and some physical health issues myself I stopped then and moved her fully onto formula.
Once I had made that decision I felt like a weight was lifted from my shoulders.

My daughter was sick for the first time ever when she was 17 months old. She hadn't had so much as a cold before then.

We all do our best for our children. We feed them in the best way for us and for them.