Remind me never to have children

AtomicHorror

AtomicHorror wrote: »

The civility in this thread so far is unnerving.

Yes, yes we can all love each other, apparently.

I don't know how or why, but here we are, on After Hours, having a discussion in which other people's viewpoints are not making people angry. I can't explain it.

I'm sure the anger will rise soon enough.

wil

Liberosis wrote: »

Disagree. I think it's selfish (and reckless) to have children when you don't want them.

I'd say it's relatively unusual not to want children when you have them, regardless of your previous feelings.
It may not be universal but lucky for most people having a child tends to alter their view.
Losing a child on the other hand is a whole other ball game.

Liberosis

AtomicHorror wrote: »

The civility in this thread so far is unnerving.

Yes, yes we can all love each other, apparently.

I don't know how or why, but here we are, on After Hours, having a discussion in which other people's viewpoints are not making people angry. I can't explain it.

Your viewpoint makes me happy :P

*Hugs*

andekwarhola

The thing is, the rest of the world care as much about whether you don't want kids as they do if you have had or want kids.

Nobody really gives a fcuk.

Liberosis

Liberosis wrote: »

Your viewpoint makes me happy :P

*Hugs*

Hugs all round!!

mzungu

AtomicHorror wrote: »

The civility in this thread so far is unnerving.

Yes, yes we can all love each other, apparently.

I don't know how or why, but here we are, on After Hours, having a discussion in which other people's viewpoints are not making people angry. I can't explain it.

This thread could be the start of something really beautiful. All new Boards 2.0 ...kinder...funnier...more inclusive etc.

monkeysnapper

Went to the beach 2 weeks ago , we all made sand castles , little bastards kicked my castles over , so I went over and kicked there's in . .....

Went for icecream ...

That's the way I roll !!!!

AtomicHorror

Liberosis wrote: »

Your viewpoint makes me happy :P

*Hugs*

Really, really nervous now. Nature dictates that balance must be restored.

La.de.da

* Breaks out guitar.

Combya my lord Combya.....

AtomicHorror

andekwarhola wrote: »

The thing is, the rest of the world care as much about whether you don't want kids as they do if you have had or want kids.

Nobody really gives a fcuk.

Would that this were true, but some folks seems determined to find out one's childbearing plans. I don't know if it's an Irish thing, but particularly if you get married, people feel entitled to ask about it in a way that implies you'd better get on with it.

If I were not a happy parent, and happy to have more children (well, maybe just the one), I would not react well to the prying. I find it offensive as it is. If I were a woman, I think it'd piss me off even more.

AnonoBoy

Anyone buying or selling tickets children?

KERSPLAT!

Threads merged. Literally the exact same discussion.

Kev W

I remember a woman I was taking a course with a couple of years ago responding to the information that my girlfriend and I planned to remain child free with "don't you think that's very selfish?"

I couldn't summon up a swear word harsh enough to convey what I felt so I settled for a flat "no".

wil

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Threads merged. Literally the exact same discussion.

Thought it might have been closed due to the ban on selling ... you know...

doolox

There was a time when having children was supported by general society. Each nation supported motherhood and family makers by a range of measures and tax incentives, health care and social housing etc.

This is no longer the case.

People who have children are taxed out of it and are penalised at every hands turn for having even moderate amounts of children unless they are very poor and cannot afford to pay anything towards their maintenance.

Then you have the modern tendency towards both parents having to work fulltime in order to afford any decent standard of living Many put off having children until it is too late mostly because the wife goes into menopause earlier than expected or some other fertility problem found out too late to cure.

Then you have the removal of any form of sanction without any alternative but parents are still held responsible for their childrens actions without having any way to hold them in check since corporal punishment is illegal. If a child acts up and does wrong how is a parent suppose to control them? Report them to the cops??

Any wonder people are not having children. I do not consider it selfish in the least to opt not to have children.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

It's not unreasonable to expect parents to be able to afford children or housing for children. And I don't think beating a child nessessarily makes them good or well behaved.

lawlolawl

doolox wrote: »

There was a time when having children was supported by general society. Each nation supported motherhood and family makers by a range of measures and tax incentives, health care and social housing etc.

This is no longer the case.

People who have children are taxed out of it and are penalised at every hands turn for having even moderate amounts of children unless they are very poor and cannot afford to pay anything towards their maintenance.

Then you have the modern tendency towards both parents having to work fulltime in order to afford any decent standard of living Many put off having children until it is too late mostly because the wife goes into menopause earlier than expected or some other fertility problem found out too late to cure.

Are you serious?

What extra taxes do people with children pay that i don't?

And where's my free money equivalent to the amount paid to people in childrens allowance?

If one of the parents stayed at home then the cost of childcare is eliminated so that "extra" cost over a childless couple is gone. Then they are at parity and there is no perceived disadvantage to couples with children.

Add to that the fact that you are more likely to be eligible for social housing, medical cards etc. if you have kids than a single person or childless couple would be.

lawlolawl

lawlolawl wrote: »

Are you serious?

What extra taxes do people with children pay that i don't?

And where's my free money equivalent to the amount paid to people in childrens allowance?

If one of the parents stayed at home then the cost of childcare is eliminated so that "extra" cost over a childless couple is gone. Then they are at parity and there is no perceived disadvantage to couples with children.

Add to that the fact that you are more likely to be eligible for social housing, medical cards etc. if you have kids than a single person or childless couple would be.

Why did you quote me?

lawlolawl

Deleted User wrote: »

Why did you quote me?

I don't know

E: fixed

lawlolawl

lawlolawl wrote: »

I don't know

E: fixed

Ok

Playboy

lawlolawl wrote: »

Are you serious?

What extra taxes do people with children pay that i don't?

And where's my free money equivalent to the amount paid to people in childrens allowance?

If one of the parents stayed at home then the cost of childcare is eliminated so that "extra" cost over a childless couple is gone. Then they are at parity and there is no perceived disadvantage to couples with children.

Add to that the fact that you are more likely to be eligible for social housing, medical cards etc. if you have kids than a single person or childless couple would be.

You do know that other peoples kids will be contributing to your retirement?

celligraphy

FlowerPower1 wrote:

Love love my daughter with all my heart, she brightens up my life no end. She's so funny and the sunshine of my life. Each to their own, I understand why people want and don't want children but I hate when people go on and on and on and on about the individual decision you've made. It's like anything really.

Ditto!! I 'have a daughter and I love everything the nappies. The tantrums etc... God I actually can't get over the smell of her hair , how creepy I just love her but anyways I Have a childless friend who goes on and on about her flipping cat like no tomorrow ,seriously I do not want to hear about the cat ,I don't talk about my kid non stop so please stop.... And the worse thing is , the cat is so mean like waits to jump in you and scratch/bite but anyways each to their own

AtomicHorror

Playboy wrote: »

You do know that other peoples kids will be contributing to your retirement?

And paying the taxes that support public services. Mind you, before retirement the taxes of the childfree support other people's children through those same public services. Children's allowance and related benefits, free GP care... I don't think we can easily paint the childfree as net beneficiaries.

Lavinia

Nothing more beautiful in this world than children...

John_Rambo

Having kids is cool. Not having kids is cool.

But, before the threads were merged we a thread starter from someone that actually believed having kids means no social life, no weekends away, no personal life, unhappiness no energy!!

That's nuts!

celligraphy

celligraphy wrote: »

Ditto!! I 'have a daughter and I love everything the nappies. The tantrums etc... God I actually can't get over the smell of her hair , how creepy I just love her but anyways I Have a childless friend who goes on and on about her flipping cat like no tomorrow ,seriously I do not want to hear about the cat ,I don't talk about my kid non stop so please stop.... And the worse thing is , the cat is so mean like waits to jump in you and scratch/bite but anyways each to their own

Maybe she thinks your child is so mean and that she waits to scratch and bite her

Daisy 55

Lavinia wrote: »

Nothing more beautiful in this world than children...

Especially sleeping ones!

Daisy 55

Daisy 55 wrote: »

Especially sleeping ones!

I had a brief taste of the work involved with a new baby. The mam wasn't well and dad had to work so I was holding the fort.
Man was I tired. Even when she was asleep I was awake because I was so nervous something would happen to her! In the morning I brought her in to bed beside me in the hope of sleep but no joy. She was awake and that meant I had to be awake too!

There are photos of me in puke stained jammies in the middle of the day with baba on my belly. Too scared to move in case I woke her. Too scared to walk up and down the stairs in case I dropped her.

Fear and tiredness are my memories and showing the daddy how to button the sleeping suit thingy. Even though she was his third

celligraphy

Deleted User wrote:

Maybe she thinks your child is so mean and that she waits to scratch and bite her

No it attacks everyone even the owner , haven't a clue what's up with it

celligraphy

celligraphy wrote: »

No it attacks everyone even the owner , haven't a clue what's up with it

I was referring to your friend

lawlolawl

Lavinia wrote: »

Nothing more beautiful in this world than children...

Other than :

A six digit bank balance.
A 25 year old woman who expects nothing but a good time
A 2016 MX5.
As much free time as you want and the opportunity to do whatever you want with it.
No obligations or "you have to...... ".

wakka12

andekwarhola wrote: »

The thing is, the rest of the world care as much about whether you don't want kids as they do if you have had or want kids.

Nobody really gives a fcuk.

Not really, your family and friends seem to care a lot if you do/dont have babies

John_Rambo

lawlolawl wrote: »

Other than :

A six digit bank balance.
A 25 year old woman who expects nothing but a good time
A 2016 MX5.
As much free time as you want and the opportunity to do whatever you want with it.
No obligations or "you have to...... ".

Cash, cars, wives, free time and doing what you want to do are possible with kids. And, after all...

lawlolawl wrote: »

Cars are literally a box on wheels for going to and from places. They have a singular purpose so buy the cheapest one that does that purpose the most reliably and cost effectively

Why would you, of all people want a 2016 MX5?

IvyTheTerrible

Why can't the people who want to have kids have them, the ones who don't don't, and everybody mind their own business?

Samsgirl

Children are great. You can fart in public and blame them!!

KERSPLAT!

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Why can't the people who want to have kids have them, the ones who don't don't, and everybody mind their own business?

If only!!

I have always wanted kids, always thought I'd make a good father. I have a son now and he is my world. The day he was born my life changed forever. Its an amazing feeling. I most likely won't have anymore and I'm good with that. Whether anyone else does or not makes absolutely no odds to me.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Why can't the people who want to have kids have them, the ones who don't don't, and everybody mind their own business?

On the whole id tend to agree, but women especially who choose to remain childless seem to have to defend their decision as if it's something unnatural she's decided to do. You're somehow less of a woman if you don't reproduce.

wil

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

If only!!

I have always wanted kids, always thought I'd make a good father. I have a son now and he is my world. The day he was born my life changed forever. Its an amazing feeling. I most likely won't have anymore and I'm good with that. Whether anyone else does or not makes absolutely no odds to me.

Does a little?
Don't you want him to have friends?;)

HensVassal

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Because nursing a hangover every Sunday is a much better way of living your life than raising kids.

Actually, thrashing kids on a Sunday for not making you breakfast whilst you nurse a hangover in bed with the mother of aforementioned demon spawn is a better way of living one's life.

Lavinia

Daisy 55 wrote: »

Especially sleeping ones!

I love them in any state...

lawlolawl wrote: »

Other than :

A six digit bank balance.
A 25 year old woman who expects nothing but a good time
A 2016 MX5.
As much free time as you want and the opportunity to do whatever you want with it.
No obligations or "you have to...... ".

Wow, I can only guess that you are very young...

IvyTheTerrible

LexieOnRale wrote: »

On the whole id tend to agree, but women especially who choose to remain childless seem to have to defend their decision as if it's something unnatural she's decided to do. You're somehow less of a woman if you don't reproduce.

That goes back to my "why can't everyone mind their own business" point.

IvyTheTerrible

wil wrote: »

Does a little?
Don't you want him to have friends?;)

Grown ups deciding maturely that they don't want kids won't stop plenty of other people having them.

Nodferatu

Maybe they were fed up the soccer. Wouldnt blame them. Though i do agree to never have kids.

Oedo

The thing I find unfortunate for the "I'll never have kids" camp is that I don't know if they're considering how their mindset will change in 5 or 10 years.

I don't want to tar everyone with the same brush here as many people have their own reasons but I'm particularly thinking of a couple of people I know who saw the prospect of having kids as a prison sentence.

Being young free and single in your 20s (and even 30s) is great. This is when you value freedom over companionship and family. When you start getting that bit older this is when the lifestyle starts to lose its charm. You don't want to be that 'that guy' at the end of the bar, 40+ years old, eyeing up the 20 year olds, not fully realising you're well past it until you're touching on 50. I think that's when most people start valuing companionship and family over freedom, and the average person still has 20+ years ahead of them.

imo these couple of people saw their life as it was then and thought that kids don't fit and would wreck everything. However they're banking on them always being content with how their life will be, and the values someone in their 20s and early 30s have are far different to someone older.

Esel

@OP Never stop being a child.

IvyTheTerrible

Oedo wrote: »

The thing I find unfortunate for the "I'll never have kids" camp is that I don't know if they're considering how their mindset will change in 5 or 10 years.

I don't want to tar everyone with the same brush here as many people have their own reasons but I'm particularly thinking of a couple of people I know who saw the prospect of having kids as a prison sentence.

Being young free and single in your 20s (and even 30s) is great. This is when you value freedom over companionship and family. When you start getting that bit older this is when the lifestyle starts to lose its charm. You don't want to be that 'that guy' at the end of the bar, 40+ years old, eyeing up the 20 year olds, not fully realising you're well past it until you're touching on 50. I think that's when most people start valuing companionship and family over freedom, and the average person still has 20+ years ahead of them.

imo these couple of people saw their life as it was then and thought that kids don't fit and would wreck everything. However they're banking on them always being content with how their life will be, and the values someone in their 20s and early 30s have are far different to someone older.

First of all, it's very patronising to tell adults who know their own minds"Ah Shure you'll change your mind in a few years". People who are genuinely sure they don't want kids won't change their minds and are sick of hearing that line.

Also you seem to equating family and companionship exclusively with having children. Childless (for whatever reason) couples are valid families too.

thattequilagirl

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

First of all, it's very patronising to tell adults who know their own minds"Ah Shure you'll change your mind in a few years". People who are genuinely sure they don't want kids won't change their minds and are sick of hearing that line.

Also you seem to equating family and companionship exclusively with having children. Childless (for whatever reason) couples ate valid families too.

Saying "You will change your mind" is patronising. I don't think "You might change your mind is" Anything is possible!

mansize

Why doesn't the OP get the snip?

mansize

Also Wtf is a Cuss Word? I'd ask Mark Twain but he's dead.

112togo

Oedo wrote: »

The thing I find unfortunate for the "I'll never have kids" camp is that I don't know if they're considering how their mindset will change in 5 or 10 years.

However they're banking on them always being content with how their life will be, and the values someone in their 20s and early 30s have are far different to someone older.

I know what you mean...do you think it's 'unfortunate' for those who have children that they may not be considering this change in their mindset either, and what seems ideal for them now (children) may not be as they get older. Cos like, they'll have 'far different values' in a decade or so and may not want children at all, except by then it's too late.

Or is it just the childfree you feel are unfortunate?