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Estate Agent Obligations

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    #32
    ChickCave
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭ChickCave


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    I suggest you talk to somebody who has sold a house before to gain some perspective.

    I have sold 2 houses before and any EA worth their salt would let all interested parties know where they stand.


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    #33
    bemak
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭bemak


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    I suggest you talk to somebody who has sold a house before to gain some perspective. The house you were bidding on obviously attracted a lot of interest, from what has been described in the previous posts. In this context, you're offer was not taken seriously. Why would an estate agent respond to non serious bidders, particularly one that was capped and significantly below the final best offer. The estate agent did nothing wrong and you need to stop directing your frustration at them and move on.

    As has been pointed out several times now, your bidding strategy failed and you're looking to blame somebody. You're blame is directed at their supposed uprofessionalism but unfortunately you have nobody to blame but yourself. There has been a lot of good, simple advice offered in this thread


    I'm not blaming anyone the EA nor anyone else for us losing out on the house. That isn't what I'm asking. My question from day one was, should the EA have told us we were outbid. Simple as that! How can I be to blame for an EA not giving us the common courtesy of telling us thanks but you were outbid.

    And you saying that they mustn't have considered us as a serious bidder is nonsense. We offered 35k over the asking as FTB with mortgage approval. If that's not considered a serious bidder then we're all in trouble!!


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    #34
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Yep he should have e-mailed that you were no longer the high bidder and thank you for your interest even taking your offer as final.

    Given the context that has been described to date and the original posters bidding strategy, no he/she was under no obligation to respond


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    #35
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    ChickCave wrote: »
    I have sold 2 houses before and any EA worth their salt would let all interested parties know where they stand.

    Plenty of other interested parties who dont commit to a final one time offer on their first offer. The EA may have thought they were wasting their time going back to the OP.


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    #36
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    bemak wrote: »
    I'm not blaming anyone the EA nor anyone else for us losing out on the house. That isn't what I'm asking. My question from day one was, should the EA have told us we were outbid. Simple as that! How can I be to blame for an EA not giving us the common courtesy of telling us thanks but you were outbid.

    And you saying that they mustn't have considered us as a serious bidder is nonsense. We offered 35k over the asking as FTB with mortgage approval. If that's not considered a serious bidder then we're all in trouble!!

    And I've answered your question on two occasions now from several different perspectives. You capped your bid, there was more interested and willing parties. The estate agent was under no obligation to inform you that you were outbid. They knew you wernt going to beat the final offer so they did what was best for their client and their business interests.

    Essentially it can be summed up as - estate agent does job in the most expedient way. Losing bidder feels aggrieved.

    And on the point of offering over asking and you're a ftb - in today's market, to be frank, so what!


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    #37
    bemak
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭bemak


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    And I've answered your question on two occasions now from several different perspectives. You capped your bid, there was more interested and willing parties. The estate agent was under no obligation to inform you that you were outbid. They knew you wernt going to beat the final offer so they did what was best for their client and their business interests.

    Essentially it can be summed up as - estate agent does job in the most expedient way. Losing bidder feels aggrieved.

    And on the point of offering over asking and you're a ftb - in today's market, to be frank, so what!

    thanks for your input


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    #38
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    ChickCave wrote: »
    I have sold 2 houses before and any EA worth their salt would let all interested parties know where they stand.

    I suggest you read the part where the original poster said that they capped their bid and the house sold for well over their cap. How are they then considered an interested party when the estate agent offers the final bids to his client and recommends them to accept it?


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    #39
    bemak
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭bemak


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    I suggest you read the part where the original poster said that they capped their bid and the house sold for well over their cap. How are they then considered an interested party when the estate agent offers the final bids to his client and recommends them to accept it?

    Again, I wouldn't expect the EA to mention anything about us to the client once we were outbid. As the highest bidder for a period I think we were fully entitled to a quick email or a call to say we had been outbid as the highest bidder. If I'd never seen the sale agreed sign I would still have thought our bid was the highest and was being considered as I heard nothing to make me think otherwise. I must be asking the impossible. I'll spell it out to the next EA we deal with that we'd like to be informed if/when we get outbid.


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    #40
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    bemak wrote: »
    Again, I wouldn't expect the EA to mention anything about us to the client once we were outbid. As the highest bidder for a period I think we were fully entitled to a quick email or a call to say we had been outbid as the highest bidder. If I'd never seen the sale agreed sign I would still have thought our bid was the highest and was being considered as I heard nothing to make me think otherwise. I must be asking the impossible. I'll spell it out to the next EA we deal with that we'd like to be informed if/when we get outbid.

    And let me spell this out also - if you make a one time offer and you hear nothing and you don't enquire as to whether the seller is considering it, the vast majority of people would consider that the offer was beaten.

    If you don't realise this, you need to educate yourself more about how this process works


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    #41
    bemak
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭bemak


    ya maybe I do.

    for what it's worth noting to complete the story, our offer was being considered as the EA asked us how quickly we could move on it. We said very as we had everything in place. Then heard nothing. I spoke with the EA a few days after I saw the Sale Agreed sign and she said that we were offering what the vendor wanted but that someone came in late with a cash offer. Apparently a third party came in with a mortgage approved offer 10k over the cash offer but the vendor took the cash. Surprisingly it's still online but I would think it's because the EA is leaving the ad there just in case the sale falls through.

    I am new to the process, and I appreciate that some of our decisions might have been naive. That's why I wanted to know was there an obligation on the EA to tell a bidder that they were outbid - because I'd like to know in future. We've bidded on a few houses in the last 3 years and we were always told. I'll just have to keep the pressure on in future.

    As regards a tactic of saying a 'one and only offer' I think was is a valid option for our situation. The property had been creeping up in 5-10k bids so the idea was that we would offer our max rather that get into a situation where someone else offered our max and therefore we wouldn't be in a position to go higher. So for example, if our max was 100k and the bidding was currently at 80/85k, we thought, instead of bidding say 90k and someone else coming in at 100k, which we wouldn't be able to beat, we'd offer the 100k ourselves as our max. Again all these figures are just to illustrate the example.

    Personally I don't think there is any problem with that route. It means if we're beaten after that we're happier knowing that we couldn't beat a higher offer anyway rather than being beaten by an offer that could have been ours. If that makes sense.


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    #42
    carfax
    Registered Users Posts: 3,771 ✭✭✭carfax


    bemak wrote: »
    Again, I wouldn't expect the EA to mention anything about us to the client once we were outbid. As the highest bidder for a period I think we were fully entitled to a quick email or a call to say we had been outbid as the highest bidder. If I'd never seen the sale agreed sign I would still have thought our bid was the highest and was being considered as I heard nothing to make me think otherwise. I must be asking the impossible. I'll spell it out to the next EA we deal with that we'd like to be informed if/when we get outbid.

    I'm amazed at some of the responses. I'm an estate agent and of course you should have been informed that a higher bid had been received.

    It's just common sense / basic manners to pick up the phone or drop you an email regardless of how tough a negotiator you came across as.

    We've actually just started a blog on Quillsen.ie and the next post is going to be about how the commission structure doesn't necessarily align with the seller's best interest. Should be up early next week and hopefully will give a bit off insight into the motivations of some estate agents.


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    #43
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    bemak wrote: »
    ya maybe I do.

    for what it's worth noting to complete the story, our offer was being considered as the EA asked us how quickly we could move on it. We said very as we had everything in place. Then heard nothing. I spoke with the EA a few days after I saw the Sale Agreed sign and she said that we were offering what the vendor wanted but that someone came in late with a cash offer. Apparently a third party came in with a mortgage approved offer 10k over the cash offer but the vendor took the cash. Surprisingly it's still online but I would think it's because the EA is leaving the ad there just in case the sale falls through.

    I am new to the process, and I appreciate that some of our decisions might have been naive. That's why I wanted to know was there an obligation on the EA to tell a bidder that they were outbid - because I'd like to know in future. We've bidded on a few houses in the last 3 years and we were always told. I'll just have to keep the pressure on in future.

    As regards a tactic of saying a 'one and only offer' I think was is a valid option for our situation. The property had been creeping up in 5-10k bids so the idea was that we would offer our max rather that get into a situation where someone else offered our max and therefore we wouldn't be in a position to go higher. So for example, if our max was 100k and the bidding was currently at 80/85k, we thought, instead of bidding say 90k and someone else coming in at 100k, which we wouldn't be able to beat, we'd offer the 100k ourselves as our max. Again all these figures are just to illustrate the example.

    Personally I don't think there is any problem with that route. It means if we're beaten after that we're happier knowing that we couldn't beat a higher offer anyway rather than being beaten by an offer that could have been ours. If that makes sense.

    It is a valid strategy but there's other factors you have to consider when doing this. I have mentioned them earlier. Chalk it down to experience and realise the estate agent is not your friend


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    #44
    bemak
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭bemak


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    It is a valid strategy but there's other factors you have to consider when doing this. I have mentioned them earlier. Chalk it down to experience and realise the estate agent is not your friend

    Ya I must - I was just surprised is all. Thanks for your input - hopefully it'll lead to success in the future for us!


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    #45
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    carfax wrote: »
    I'm amazed at some of the responses. I'm an estate agent and of course you should have been informed that a higher bid had been received.

    It's just common sense / basic manners to pick up the phone or drop you an email regardless of how tough a negotiator you came across as.

    We've actually just started a blog on Quillsen.ie and the next post is going to be about how the commission structure doesn't necessarily align with the seller's best interest. Should be up early next week and hopefully will give a bit off insight into the motivations of some estate agents.

    There was a lot of interest in this property, from what has been described. What's the limit to the number of bidders you would expect to ring/contact before it becomes an administrative nightmare? 2, 5, 10, 20?


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    #46
    bemak
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭bemak


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    There was a lot of interest in this property, from what has been described. What's the limit to the number of bidders you would expect to ring/contact before it becomes an administrative nightmare? 2, 5, 10, 20?

    just the 1 that was outbid. surely that's all that would need to know. you wouldn't need to inform every bidder ever that a new bid was in. it's like the leader in a race - the only one interested in position is the one that has just been overtaken for the lead


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    #47
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Whatever the EA thought about the finality of the bid he left a genuine bidder thinking that their bid was still in a position to win, this showed disrespect at least not letting them know that they were no longer in the running. Also that person won't want to deal with that EA or firm in the future or as evidenced by this thread cause their firm bad publicity.


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    #48
    carfax
    Registered Users Posts: 3,771 ✭✭✭carfax


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    There was a lot of interest in this property, from what has been described. What's the limit to the number of bidders you would expect to ring/contact before it becomes an administrative nightmare? 2, 5, 10, 20?

    It takes all of 60 seconds to BCC 20 or more interested parties on a group email update about the status of a sale. This is just my usual procedure (to email everyone that enquired and left an email address, regardless of whether they even viewed or made a bid on the property) but I would certainly call the under bidder out of courtesy in this case:
    (a) in case their circumstances had changed and they were in a position to make another offer.
    and
    (b) to keep a good relationship/communication channel in tact with an under bidder in case the current purchaser backs out.

    I realise that not all agents will be comfortable with email etc but I've never heard of an agent not making a phone call to the one person that had made the previous best offer. If the agent was acting on the seller's instructions (which I assume he/she was when going sale agreed) a phone call to let the OP know would still be normal professional courtesy.

    I know I sound overly critical of the agent in question now but my point was really that I was surprised by the general reaction of posters here. If I was the OP in this case I would certainly feel annoyed.


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