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What to do if a LL doesn't get back to you?

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  • 02-03-2016 12:22pm
    #1
    regi3457
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭


    Hi to all. I am new in Ireland and new on the forum so this will be my first post.

    My wife and I moved into an apartment in Ballsbridge and it has been terrible since we moved in just over a month ago. I could go into the problems but to make this post shorter, let's just say that there have been a few problems and arguments with the LL and after the issues we asked if we could leave even though we have a one year lease. He said it would be ok but then when we asked him to confirm that this would be without penalties he doesn't want to reply. If you communicate via email with a LL and he agrees to you leaving early, does that mean he can still withhold your deposit or will withhold your deposit? When a LL agrees to you leaving early, what is the procedure usually and what should we do as tenants? I asked him these questions but he doesn't get back to us about it and I am wondering if it is because he has other plans that he doesn't want to discuss.

    I would really appreciate any advice.


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    #2
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Since you're breaking a fixed term lease, the landlord can retain a portion of the deposit to cover any loss in rent between you leaving and another person moving in. The landlord does have an obligation to mitigate this loss so they must move someone in as soon as they can.

    If the landlord will not respond or not give back any of the deposit, you will have to open a PRTB dispute.


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    #3
    regi3457
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭regi3457


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    Since you're breaking a fixed term lease, the landlord can retain a portion of the deposit to cover any loss in rent between you leaving and another person moving in. The landlord does have an obligation to mitigate this loss so they must move someone in as soon as they can.

    If the landlord will not respond or not give back any of the deposit, you will have to open a PRTB dispute.

    Thank you for your reply. Yes we would technically be breaking a fixed term lease if we were to leave but isn't it different when both parties agree to it?


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    #4
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    regi3457 wrote: »
    Thank you for your reply. Yes we would technically be breaking a fixed term lease if we were to leave but isn't it different when both parties agree to it?

    The landlord is entitled to minimise his financial losses. He agreed to let you leave, there are a number of ways under the law this can happen, one of which is finding a replacement tenant to take over the lease.

    These ways provide no loss in rent to the landlord and thus would entitle you to get the full deposit back.


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    #5
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,375 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Ive recently gone through this process, and like you, I was up against an unresponsive landlord. I'll detail the correct procedure first, and then what I actually did.

    Correct way to break a lease early:
    Write to your landlord by registered post informing them that you wish to end your lease early, and start your 28 day notice period. You have 2 options now. Either finish the letter and sign it, or you may offer to reassign the lease to new tenants, to limit any deductions from your deposit.

    The landlord should acknowledge your notice period, and either accept your offer to reassign the lease, or reject it.
    • Landlord Accepts: You now advertise the property, organise viewings, get any references (whatever criteria ye were required to submit when ye applied to rent the property), and when you select a suitable candidate, pass this onto the landlord so they can approve. If you were registered with PRTB by your landlord, you should also pay to register the new tenants (Ive had mixed reports confirming and denying this).
    • Landlord Rejects: PRTB informed me that should a landlord reject your offer to reassign the lease, then they are not entitled to hold your deposit because of early termination. (they can hold it for overdue rent*, outstanding bills, damages etc)
      *overdue rent is where you have missed a payment, not rent due because you're breaking the lease

    New tenants should sign off on your itinery list, and pay you your deposit. The landlord holds your deposit for them. New tenants will sign a new contract with the landlord.


    My Story - The less correct way
    Similarly, we viewed property with an agency, agreed to rent it, and on the day of signing were told the landlord would not be using the agency to manage the property. Over the next 2-3 months there was a list of issues, ranging from the condition of the property when we moved in, to leaks, to appliances not working. All of which took a long and slow process to resolve. This landlord wanted the payout of being a landlord, without any of the responsibilities (hence dropping the management company).

    I text our landlord to say we've to end our lease early and got no response. I rang our landlord and got no response. Eventually I sent a registered letter to our landlord which was signed, but again, got no response. Our rent was coming due, and i'd made up my mind that a) Im not getting my deposit off this landlord, and b) the cone of silence would break if I didnt pay rent.
    4 days after missed rent day, the cone of silence broke. I explained the lack of communication, and how I was concerned that once we left the property we would never hear from the landlord again, re: deposit refund. Oh how good it felt when our landlord replied saying "you wouldnt get your deposit back, you've broken the lease". No amount of legislation or tenancies acts would of got through to them. Long story short, our deposit more than covered the rent due, and we moved out after our 28 days notice.

    TLDR: Landlord was an ass, we served notice, got ignored, didnt pay rent, got a call, deposit covered due rent.

    What we did was wrong by the book, but doing it my way saved us months of hassle, and in the end no-one was out of pocket.


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    #6
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    What we did was wrong by the book, but doing it my way saved us months of hassle, and in the end no-one was out of pocket.

    What you did was illegal and cannot be condoned on this forum.


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    #7
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,994 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    athtrasna wrote: »
    What you did was illegal and cannot be condoned on this forum.

    Was how the LL handled it right? He as paid for a service that he only partly delivered.

    Breaking the law and being in the wrong aren't always the same thing but we only have one half of the story


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    #8
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,375 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    athtrasna wrote: »
    What you did was illegal and cannot be condoned on this forum.

    Im not condoning it. Im not saying it was legal. No matter what I did, some part of my story was going to be 'illegal', whether it was me using my deposit as a final months rent, or whether it was the landlord refusing to repay me my deposit. I could of done the 'right thing', and played everything by the book, ignoring my instincts, and then beat myself up 28 days later when the landlord proved my instincts right, but my conscious is clean with what I did. I dont want to detract from regi3457's post either, my situation is dealt with, theirs isnt.

    Anyways, thats just my story. I described the right way to go about it too. :rolleyes:


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    #9
    regi3457
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭regi3457


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    The landlord is entitled to minimise his financial losses. He agreed to let you leave, there are a number of ways under the law this can happen, one of which is finding a replacement tenant to take over the lease.

    These ways provide no loss in rent to the landlord and thus would entitle you to get the full deposit back.

    Thanks. But let's say for example, that the LL didn't fulfill his obligations to us. How does that change things? Do we still have to find a new tenant?


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    #10
    regi3457
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭regi3457


    athtrasna wrote: »
    What you did was illegal and cannot be condoned on this forum.

    Which part of it was illegal?


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    #11
    regi3457
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭regi3457


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    Im not condoning it. Im not saying it was legal. No matter what I did, some part of my story was going to be 'illegal', whether it was me using my deposit as a final months rent, or whether it was the landlord refusing to repay me my deposit. I could of done the 'right thing', and played everything by the book, ignoring my instincts, and then beat myself up 28 days later when the landlord proved my instincts right, but my conscious is clean with what I did. I dont want to detract from regi3457's post either, my situation is dealt with, theirs isnt.

    Anyways, thats just my story. I described the right way to go about it too. :rolleyes:

    If you had done it the right way, and the LL did not return your deposit, would you have been able to get it back somehow and would that have been a laborious task?

    I don't think paying your rent is illegal just in the same way not paying your debt back is illegal. I think it is a social matter not a legal one. what you did sounds wrong but also I can understand what you were feeling.


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    #12
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    The bit where he didn't pay rent on time as provided for by the contract.

    Illegal is a bit of an overstatement though. It's a breach of contract, i.e. a civil matter in which the Gardaí will be uninterested rather than a specific breach of the law. What Black_Knight did is a viable course of action provided you're willing to pay the moment any escalation occurs.


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    #13
    regi3457
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭regi3457


    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    The bit where he didn't pay rent on time as provided for by the contract.

    Illegal is a bit of an overstatement though. It's a breach of contract, i.e. a civil matter in which the Gardaí will be uninterested rather than a specific breach of the law. What Black_Knight did is a viable course of action provided you're willing to pay the moment any escalation occurs.

    So this is how I understand it from a few other countries I have lived in. Maybe in Ireland it is different but when you don't pay rent you receive a letter that says you have not paid rent and then you have XXX number of days or weeks to pay. If you still don't pay rent you get a second letter. If you still don't pay you get evicted. This process in total takes longer than month usually but not sure here in Ireland how strict they are with that. Problem is, people can have financial trouble so you can't really throw them in jail for not paying rent and you can't throw them on the street without giving them some time because that is inhumane. The worse I think is that you can get evicted in which case both parties lose.

    Oh I just want to add that this is assuming the LL has fulfilled his obligation. I think in Black-Knights case, the LL did not so isn't the LL breaching the contract before anything else?


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    #14
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,375 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    regi3457 wrote: »
    If you had done it the right way, and the LL did not return your deposit, would you have been able to get it back somehow and would that have been a laborious task?
    Probably could of got it back, and most likely would of been a long labourious task. I didnt fancy my landlords ignorance becoming my problem so I reduced the margin of error by keeping things in my control.
    regi3457 wrote: »
    So this is how I understand it from a few other countries I have lived in. Maybe in Ireland it is different but when you don't pay rent you receive a letter that says you have not paid rent and then you have XXX number of days or weeks to pay. If you still don't pay rent you get a second letter. If you still don't pay you get evicted. This process in total takes longer than month usually but not sure here in Ireland how strict they are with that. Problem is, people can have financial trouble so you can't really throw them in jail for not paying rent and you can't throw them on the street without giving them some time because that is inhumane. The worse I think is that you can get evicted in which case both parties lose.

    Oh I just want to add that this is assuming the LL has fulfilled his obligation. I think in Black-Knights case, the LL did not so isn't the LL breaching the contract before anything else?

    Yep, same here. Technically my old landlord could of issued me with a letter saying ive not paid me rent and to do so. Its a 14 day warning notice for failure to pay rent. After that, they issue a 28 day notice of termination of tenancy.

    In my case the landlord didnt really do anything wrong, other than ignore me. That said, when I did make contact, they said (and im not paraphrasing here) "you wouldn't get your deposit back".
    For yourself OP, I could only suggest mailing the landlord restating your notice period, and asking can you reassign the lease. From what PRTB said to me, once you've it in writing, and the landlord ignores you, its interpreted as a no. They didnt seem 100% confident on this though, like its a situation they'd never come across. Your landlord probably just doesnt want to commit to unconditionally giving you back your deposit. If you're not sure, point him/her towards PRTB or threshold where they can get some info on where they and you stand.


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