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Michael Martin proposes 600 job losses in Cork

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    #2
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,717 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Better headline tag might be of a Cork TD saving taxpayers' money by abolishing a white water elephant ...


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    #3
    overmantle
    Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭overmantle


    While I'm grateful to have a job, I work long hours, in a stressful position. Like many others, I pay ALL of the various charges and deductions, including water charges. During the period of austerity, it has not been easy, where I have found my job becoming all the more demanding, working longer hours, for significantly less money.

    Like many others, I have been prepared to make significant sacrifices, for the benefit of our country and for the recovery of our economy. It has been difficult to see some others saying 'No' to absolutely everything, seemingly unwilling to pay for anything, while others seem to be caught for every charge, every levy, every bill. I don't smoke, I drink very little, I don't have sky sports etc. etc.. Personally, I would have preferred not to have to pay water charges but I realise that to have a properly treated, safe water supply, this costs money.

    There has been significant investment in Irish Water, which will hopefully benefit us all. Having said that, if by any chance water charges are reversed, I will expect that those who made the sacrifice and paid the charges should, not only be reimbursed but also rewarded, in some way, for being the ones willing to pay.


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    #4
    mohawk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭mohawk


    Manach wrote: »
    Better headline tag might be of a Cork TD saving taxpayers' money by abolishing a white water elephant ...

    It will cost money to abolish Irish Water.


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    #5
    Jimmy Bottles
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭Jimmy Bottles


    Manach wrote: »
    Better headline tag might be of a Cork TD saving taxpayers' money by abolishing a white water elephant ...

    500m cost which will achieve nothing and 600 job losses in Cork alone.

    I suspect this is the best tagline for the cork city form


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    #6
    sozbox
    Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭sozbox


    Hope this doesn't become a debate on water charges but rather a discussion on the proposed job losses in Cork.

    I know people who are very worried about being able to provide for their families tonight and I think it's disgusting for Martin to use these jobs as political fodder


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    #7
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,155 ✭✭✭screamer


    There's people all over the country tonight worried about providing for their families due to impending hour or job cuts you just don't hear about it as it's not enough people to make headlines. Business is business and that's the bottom line. Only civil servants have the comfort of jobs for life. If abolishing IW makes financial sense it will be done though I wouldn't hold my breath on it being abolished. It's a sunken cost and a revenue stream for the government.


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    #8
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,155 ✭✭✭screamer


    There's people all over the country tonight worried about providing for their families due to impending hour or job cuts you just don't hear about it as it's not enough people to make headlines. Business is business and that's the bottom line. Only civil servants have the comfort of jobs for life. If abolishing IW makes financial sense it will be done though I wouldn't hold my breath on it being abolished. It's a sunken cost and a revenue stream for the government.


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    #9
    sozbox
    Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭sozbox


    screamer wrote: »
    There's people all over the country tonight worried about providing for their families due to impending hour or job cuts you just don't hear about it as it's not enough people to make headlines. Business is business and that's the bottom line. Only civil servants have the comfort of jobs for life. If abolishing IW makes financial sense it will be done though I wouldn't hold my breath on it being abolished. It's a sunken cost and a revenue stream for the government.

    IW staff aren't civil servants and the staff in Abtran are definitely not civil servants. I don't think it's right for Martin to play with people's livelihood like this.


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    #10
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,717 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    mohawk wrote: »
    It will cost money to abolish Irish Water.
    There is always somewhat an air of skeptism over monetary figures that interested bodies bandy about but even taken at face value does it not raise alarm bells over the financial controls, so begs the question how much more it would cost to keep it going.
    It is always unfortunate about job losses, but the money free backed into the economic system is more likely to boost economic activity than being funnelled into de facto government coffers.


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    #11
    mcko
    Registered Users Posts: 755 ✭✭✭mcko


    Shut it down, straw that broke the camels back pay enough tax every week and not paying more for water.


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    #12
    votecounts
    Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭votecounts


    Micheal Martin doesn't care about the workers, hell he'd sell out his own mother for power.
    Going to be a lot of anger from people who paid and all this will go towards irish water bosses pensions


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    #13
    blackplum123
    Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭blackplum123


    votecounts wrote: »
    Micheal Martin doesn't care about the workers, hell he'd sell out his own mother for power.
    Going to be a lot of anger from people who paid and all this will go towards irish water bosses pensions

    The people that paid also got their 100 euro grant . so they paid very little in total.

    I see Fat phil was keep out of the scene in the last few weeks , They knew the whole thing was a fluck up.


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    #14
    sozbox
    Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭sozbox


    mcko wrote: »
    Shut it down, straw that broke the camels back pay enough tax every week and not paying more for water.

    You'll pay more tax if water costs are back on the books.


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    #15
    votecounts
    Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭votecounts


    blackplum123 wrote: »
    The people that paid also got their 100 euro grant . so they paid very little in total.

    I see Fat phil was keep out of the scene in the last few weeks , They knew the whole thing was a fluck up.
    Agreed, but no one likes parting with money when there is no need regardless of the amount


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    #16
    blackplum123
    Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭blackplum123


    sozbox wrote: »
    You'll pay more tax if water costs are back on the books.

    looking at your past posts you are a Fine Gaeler ,.through and through.Id say the wake up call you got in the last few days was shocking


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    #17
    mikeym
    Registered Users Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    As I said before the government were robbing Peter (taxpayer) to Pay Paul(Irish water).

    I have spoken out of Fine Gaels dismal handling of Irish Water and the scaremongering and false threats such as we will cut off your water to a trickle.

    And I was told it wasnt an electorial issue by one other member of boards.

    Well Well Well.

    I never payed my water bills and until there is a fair system put in place I wont be signing up.

    As for the Abtran staff, I would hate to see staff get laid off and they are not on huge salaries but Abtran have a high turnover of staff and are not the best company to work for.


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    #18
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,982 ✭✭✭✭josip


    sozbox wrote: »
    You'll pay more tax if water costs are back on the books.

    Yes, but only the tax payers will pay for it then.
    Which will suit many of those who object to water charges.


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    #19
    sozbox
    Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭sozbox


    mikeym wrote: »
    As I said before the government were robbing Peter (taxpayer) to Pay Paul(Irish water).

    I have spoken out of Fine Gaels dismal handling of Irish Water and the scaremongering and false threats such as we will cut off your water to a trickle.

    And I was told it wasnt an electorial issue by one other member of boards.

    Well Well Well.

    I never payed my water bills and until there is a fair system put in place I wont be signing up.

    As for the Abtran staff, I would hate to see staff get laid off and they are not on huge salaries but Abtran have a high turnover of staff and are not the best company to work for.

    However bad you think Abtran are it's surely better than the dole? We still have 8.5% unemployment so they may not get work easily


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    #20
    sozbox
    Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭sozbox


    blackplum123 wrote: »
    looking at your past posts you are a Fine Gaeler ,.through and through.Id say the wake up call you got in the last few days was shocking

    I am, absolutely, but if Coveney was suggesting the same I'd be just as critical.
    People losing their jobs should be above politics, that's the whole point of my thread.


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    #21
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    blackplum123 wrote: »
    The people that paid also got their 100 euro grant . so they paid very little in total.

    I've paid 325 so far because i have no meter installed. Is that very little?


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    #22
    mikeym
    Registered Users Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    sozbox wrote: »
    I am, absolutely, but if Coveney was suggesting the same I'd be just as critical.
    People losing their jobs should be above politics, that's the whole point of my thread.

    But Coveney reignited the whole debate last night.

    You can thank Mr.Coveney.

    Dont listen to the scaremongering instead of paying the water bill people will have extra money in there pockets.

    We were paying for water services through our taxes all along.


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    #23
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,982 ✭✭✭✭josip


    mikeym wrote: »
    ...
    We were paying for water services through our taxes all along.

    Incorrect, water services were funded by rates from businesses until the introduction of the LPT.


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    #24
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    josip wrote: »
    Incorrect, water services were funded by rates from businesses until the introduction of the LPT.

    Incorrect
    Water services were funded from the general tax pot. Non domestic customers also paid water charges.


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    #25
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    josip wrote: »
    Yes, but only the tax payers will pay for it then.
    Which will suit many of those who object to water charges.

    Nonsense
    There are other revenue income streams to the exchequer e.g VAT, VRT etc. All went into the tax pot.


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    #26
    the beer revolu
    Registered Users Posts: 17,033 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    If IW is abolished, who will run and continue to invest in our water system? Give it back to the County Councils? Cause the system ran brilliantly with them...... right?

    This is really cynical, populist politics from Martin. I think he's looking at the next election.


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    #27
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,155 ✭✭✭screamer


    Double post


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    #28
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,155 ✭✭✭screamer


    sozbox wrote: »
    screamer wrote: »
    There's people all over the country tonight worried about providing for their families due to impending hour or job cuts you just don't hear about it as it's not enough people to make headlines. Business is business and that's the bottom line. Only civil servants have the comfort of jobs for life. If abolishing IW makes financial sense it will be done though I wouldn't hold my breath on it being abolished. It's a sunken cost and a revenue stream for the government.

    IW staff aren't civil servants and the staff in Abtran are definitely not civil servants.
    exactly as private company workers they are just as open to job cuts as anyone else in the private sector.......So I don't see the reason for moaning tbh why should IW staff be protected from job cuts more than any other private sector employer working in a company that is not commercially viable ?


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    #29
    roundymac
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    Irish Water has to stay in whatever form, no matter who is funding it.


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    #30
    sozbox
    Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭sozbox


    screamer wrote: »
    exactly as private company workers they are just as open to job cuts as anyone else in the private sector.......So I don't see the reason for moaning tbh why should IW staff be protected from job cuts more than any other private sector employer working in a company that is not commercially viable ?

    I'm not saying that I'm saying that it's not right for Martin to use jobs as political football.

    It's a commercial semi state so not correct to equate with a private company, government has no say in the running of a private company.

    Martin is a cynical populist who is unnecessarily playing politics with people's jobs.

    We tried the LA model for 90 years, didn't work. Time to give the single utility model a shot and stop the political interference.


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    #31
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,155 ✭✭✭screamer


    sozbox wrote: »
    I'm not saying that I'm saying that it's not right for Martin to use jobs as political football.

    It's a commercial semi state so not correct to equate with a private company, government has no say in the running of a private company.

    Martin is a cynical populist who is unnecessarily playing politics with people's jobs.

    We tried the LA model for 90 years, didn't work. Time to give the single utility model a shot and stop the political interference.

    Could be Enda Kenny abolishing it yet...... does that make it any more palatable?


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