GRPAI

BillBen

BattleCorp wrote: »

I don't think anybody could begrudge jerseys and shooting jackets for the International teams shooting at the World Championships.

And anybody who things that was excessive would want to see how well turned out the South African team were. Suits with the SA crest on them, jackets, the coolest shooting jerseys ever etc. They really looked the part.

True I was there and got a lovely Team Ireland shooting jacket 👍👍

badaj0z

BillBen wrote: »

True I was there and got a lovely Team Ireland shooting jacket 👍👍

BattleCorp wrote: »

I don't think anybody could begrudge jerseys and shooting jackets for the International teams shooting at the World Championships.

And anybody who things that was excessive would want to see how well turned out the South African team were. Suits with the SA crest on them, jackets, the coolest shooting jerseys ever etc. They really looked the part.

The South Africans may have been grant aided from public funds as happens with many countries where the shooting sports have a national body which interfaces with a "sports council" or similar. We do not have this in Ireland at the moment and your jackets etc., were bought with money provided by fellow shooters in entry fees or by club affiliation fees. This is all very well if the funds are there and the people who dispense these funds make value judgements about what they spend money on. However, coming back to what the 2015 accounts for the NASRPC as presented at the AGM say:

Sprint Design €5011.40 Awards Open/Nat Champs/Polos
GR & BR €1280.00 Jackets/Entry Fees/Ammo PH

Income 2015 €27376.48
Expenditure 2015 €26273.05

Balance at start of year = €2593
Balance at end of year = €1103
So on the face of it, excess of expenditure over income in the year =€1490
The accounts also show a that there was a transfer in of €5000 from the legal fund to the current/ operating account . No legal expenses are detailed on the expenditure side so if this transfer had not happened then the excess of expenditure over income for the year would have been €6490.So according to these figures, more money was spent than was received in the year. Does it seem right to overspend on such items in this light?

The largest expenditure in the year was associated with the Irish Open shoot held in Harbour House.Income from this event is shown but it is not clear from the accounts how much was spent on it. It would be nice to see a summary of costs versus expenses for this event, in order to see if it made or lost money. Considering the figure of €6490 mentioned above, it is important for all those shooters who contribute money by way of fees or otherwise to know how their money was spent.

As regards the transfer of €5000 from the legal fund, what was this fund set up to do?

Sparks

badaj0z wrote: »

The South Africans may have been grant aided from public funds as happens with many countries where the shooting sports have a national body which interfaces with a "sports council" or similar. We do not have this in Ireland at the moment

...and when we had, we never got enough money to do that kind of thing unless we distributed funds unequally (and the amount of strings and requirements attached to that money were not insignificant - a very large percentage of it had to be spent by the constituent bodies of the NRPAI/SSAI on auditing, and by the time you were done, you were getting less funding than the baton-twirlers association, and that's not hyperbole, I checked the figures at the time).

As regards the transfer of €5000 from the legal fund, what was this fund set up to do?

Was that the legal fund set up by FLAG many years ago? Asking as a contributor :P

BattleCorp

badaj0z wrote: »

The South Africans may have been grant aided from public funds as happens with many countries where the shooting sports have a national body which interfaces with a "sports council" or similar.

I think they had corporate sponsorship. I have to admit they looked very sharp.

We do not have this in Ireland at the moment and your jackets etc., were bought with money provided by fellow shooters in entry fees or by club affiliation fees. This is all very well if the funds are there and the people who dispense these funds make value judgements about what they spend money on.

Not my jackets boss. I'm not on the International team. I bought and paid for my gear out of my own money.

For the record, I paid into the NASRPC funds by taking part in competitions for the last few years and I've no problem with a few jackets/jerseys being provided to the International team.

So on the face of it, excess of expenditure over income in the year =€1490
The accounts also show a that there was a transfer in of €5000 from the legal fund to the current/ operating account . No legal expenses are detailed on the expenditure side so if this transfer had not happened then the excess of expenditure over income for the year would have been €6490.So according to these figures, more money was spent than was received in the year. Does it seem right to overspend on such items in this light?

I don't know anything about the NASRPC accounts as I'm not part of the management structure, I'm just a shooter who takes part in competitions whenever I can. Like you, I don't like the idea of the NASRPC running at a loss. That's why it was strange that the vote was passed at the AGM to remove the €10 per club member levy. That must have wiped at least €5000 from the coffers of the NASRPC.

BillBen

badaj0z wrote: »

The South Africans may have been grant aided from public funds as happens with many countries where the shooting sports have a national body which interfaces with a "sports council" or similar. We do not have this in Ireland at the moment and your jackets etc., were bought with money provided by fellow shooters in entry fees or by club affiliation fees.

So again I'll ask you. Would you have preferred us to show up like a load of lads on a stags weekend? Also it's called getting support from the organisation you are representing again I'm repeating myself We paid out a lot of money to represent Ireland in the world championships so getting a jacket or jersey so be it.

badaj0z

BattleCorp wrote: »

I don't know anything about the NASRPC accounts as I'm not part of the management structure, I'm just a shooter who takes part in competitions whenever I can. Like you, I don't like the idea of the NASRPC running at a loss. That's why it was strange that the vote was passed at the AGM to remove the €10 per club member levy. That must have wiped at least €5000 from the coffers of the NASRPC.

The issue here is not on the income side, it is on the expenditure side. Just asking for more money is not a good way to cover the gap. The right thing to do first is to ensure that the expenditure is justified before you look at increasing the income.

badaj0z

BillBen wrote: »

So again I'll ask you. Would you have preferred us to show up like a load of lads on a stags weekend? Also it's called getting support from the organisation you are representing again I'm repeating myself We paid out a lot of money to represent Ireland in the world championships so getting a jacket or jersey so be it.

We both know you would have bought your uniform if it had not been provided. The issue is whether the Association should have bought it and whether other money should have been spent on a"communications clinic--€1200" or " Birr Display--€2315" or the many other things that made up the overspend.

badaj0z

Sparks wrote: »

Was that the legal fund set up by FLAG many years ago? Asking as a contributor :P

I do not know Sparks. I have no idea when it was set up or by who or for what reasons. I am just puzzled at why funds were transferred from such a fund to pay for what appears to be operational expenditure.

BillBen

badaj0z wrote: »

I do not know Sparks. I have no idea when it was set up or by who or for what reasons. I am just puzzled at why funds were transferred from such a fund to pay for what appears to be operational expenditure.

If you had been listening at the AGM. People were helped with court cases and one guy even stood up and told us he was helped

badaj0z

BillBen wrote: »

If you had been listening at the AGM. People were helped with court cases and one guy even stood up and told us he was helped

Then why are no legal expenses shown on the accounts?

BillBen

badaj0z wrote: »

Then why are no legal expenses shown on the accounts?

And again I'll repeat myself. I'm sure a full disclosure was given to the new committee. Are you trying to suggest that something underhanded went on?

badaj0z

BillBen wrote: »

And again I'll repeat myself. I'm sure a full disclosure was given to the new committee. Are you trying to suggest that something underhanded went on?

I am not suggesting anything. I just want to clarify the income and expenditure accounts so that I get a full picture of how much was spent on what. For example, it is not possible to tell from the accounts presented whether the Open event made or lost money. If it made money, fine, but if it lost money, then should the fees be increased, the costs reduced or is it considered an appropriate use for funds to subsidise it?

Rimfire Shooter

BillBen wrote: »

No they paid €100 for ammunition and the rest went on shooting jackets and jerseys for the team who were going to the world championships in Germany

Ah I see,now.

That was nice of them considering they ain't even the NGB for smallbore BR.

BillBen

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

Ah I see,now.

That was nice of them considering they ain't even the NGB for smallbore BR.

Gallery rifle team not Benchrest

Rimfire Shooter

badaj0z wrote: »

GR & BR €1280.00 Jackets/Entry Fees/Ammo PH

BillBen wrote: »

Gallery rifle team not Benchrest

.

One of us is confused

BillBen

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

.

One of us is confused

Lol. €100 was given to a br guy going to aus. The rest was used for jerseys and shooting jackets. And yes they aren't ngb's for BR but it shows you they would support whoever needed it.

BattleCorp

Slightly off topic but what happened at the recent NASRPC meeting with the club representatives? Any changes to anything?

Cass

Just thinking the same.

Rimfire Shooter

BattleCorp wrote: »

Slightly off topic but what happened at the recent NASRPC meeting with the club representatives? Any changes to anything?

Would this info ever be passed on to members? In my experience committee stuff rarely get passed on the the members unless it affects them apart from at an agm if at all

Cass

I was under the impression that the meeting had to do with rejoining the SC. Surely this is relevant to the members of each club regardless of how they voted individually so they know if they will rejoin the SC or not.

Rimfire Shooter

Cass wrote: »

I was under the impression that the meeting had to do with rejoining the SC. Surely this is relevant to the members of each club regardless of how they voted individually so they know if they will rejoin the SC or not.

I wonder how many actually really care at this stage or ever did.

I'm in NARGC. They don't ask the ordinary members what they want (or reply to their emails) so why do people expaect the NASRPC to be different. Sure it's membership is the clubs and or ranges not the individual members which is strange considering range & club members actually have a vote at the AGM

BattleCorp

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

Would this info ever be passed on to members? In my experience committee stuff rarely get passed on the the members unless it affects them apart from at an agm if at all

Maybe I'm wrong but I was under the impression that it was the NASRPC committee meeting with two reps from each of the affiliated clubs to discuss matters.

BillBen

BattleCorp wrote: »

Slightly off topic but what happened at the recent NASRPC meeting with the club representatives? Any changes to anything?

I believe they were discussing the fcp. Competitions. Finances. And apparently the club reps that attended will be doing up their reports

Rimfire Shooter

Anyone else hear that relations between Midlands & NASRPC have "mellowed" now that certain people are no longer running NASRPC?

badaj0z

Rimfire Shooter wrote: »

Anyone else hear that relations between Midlands & NASRPC have "mellowed" now that certain people are no longer running NASRPC?

I think a lot of other relationships have mellowed or will mellow for the same reason.Apart from certain clubs that is.

Cass

I cannot speak to individual's attitudes or anyone "mellowing" but perhaps it stems from the fact the MNSCI is redeveloping the range in a fairly substantial way over the next few months.

This includes a brand new Gallery rifle range, development of the pistol range, redevelopment of the existing rimfire ranges to accommodate sporting rifle and our NTSA/ISSF shooters. New target systems all around, new baffles to allow independent use of each range, etc.

IrishTarget

Well I am glad to hear that.

jb88

NASRPC refusing to discuss the GRPAI at its meeting, a big mistake.
Any rational individual would openly embrace a group trying to improve Gallery shooting in Ireland, but not this current committee.

It will lead to its downfall and possibly even the demise of the NASRPC in terms of Gallery shooting in Ireland if they keep this up.

The GRPAI are not the competition but the NASRPC is allowing this to happen.

NASRPC - Time to wake up here please. But I guess the good people on the committee are controlled by the few.

Boxer1

jb88 wrote:

NASRPC - Time to wake up here please. But I guess the good people on the committee are controlled by the few.

The Good people ??? A very well organized committee Democratic to a fault probably. Well experienced in the ways of past committees and well versed in the history of our sport. And get this they are will to take this as far as need be to protect our sport.

Tinybelle

I see we have to register for the NASRPC shoot in Harbour House this weekend. I tried to register, but the site was very difficult to follow. Finally I get to my disciplines only to find the times allocated don't suit me at all.

I hate that my hobby has become a hassle. I hate that I must register prior to each competition. I hate that I must keep an eagle eye out for notice of registration and register immediately to ensure a place. I understand that small host clubs may need registration but Harbour House is large enough to accommodate any and all that arrive to participate, and have done so successfully in the past.

This registration business and the fiasco of the Nationals ( first I was in the top ten, then I wasn't, then I was again - I mean how hard is it to add up 3 numbers) had left me totally disillusioned with the new NASRPC. I wish competitions would return to the old way, hassle free and enjoyable. I am seriously considering halting participation in future NASRPC competitions, it's just not worth it.