Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016

Bobby Baccala

gosplan wrote: »

Underneath that though, judgement on him isn't as strong as it could be.

Is he even in the French squad?

Should we base everything on 20+ goals in any European league?

Seems to me that there's 2 types of striker we can go for.

1: Already better than Giroud. Hugely expensive, no retail value, should see immediate effects. The only 2 I can think of are Higuain & Abum.

2: potentially better than Giroud. Young with perhaps a higher ceiling. People like Martial and Janssen. Not quite so expensive but will take a year or 2 to be what we want them to.


I don't think this guy is either.

How isn't Lacazette number 2 all over? He's still relatively young and should be coming into his peak years in the next 3 or 4 seasons. He's lightning quick, can finish and his goalscoring record is solid for his age. Don't see why we wouldn't take a punt on him. As for the price tag, I'm not paying for him so I personally couldn't care less how much he costs.

Bilic is no slouch and seems really informed on all his players and clearly knows his stuff so if he's in for Lacazette I'm sure he sees the potential in him too.

P4DDY2K11

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

How isn't Lacazette number 2 all over? He's still relatively young and should be coming into his peak years in the next 3 or 4 seasons. He's lightning quick, can finish and his goalscoring record is solid for his age. Don't see why we wouldn't take a punt on him. As for the price tag, I'm not paying for him so I personally couldn't care less how much he costs.

Bilic is no slouch and seems really informed on all his players and clearly knows his stuff so if he's in for Lacazette I'm sure he sees the potential in him too.

You do have to care what players cost, though. There has to be some value.

Why not just offer 100m for him...then we can show 'ambition' and also break the transfer record

gosplan

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

How isn't Lacazette number 2 all over? He's still relatively young and should be coming into his peak years in the next 3 or 4 seasons. He's lightning quick, can finish and his goalscoring record is solid for his age. Don't see why we wouldn't take a punt on him. As for the price tag, I'm not paying for him so I personally couldn't care less how much he costs.

Bilic is no slouch and seems really informed on all his players and clearly knows his stuff so if he's in for Lacazette I'm sure he sees the potential in him too.

Granted but are we saying he would be a good addition or we should sign him rather than anyone else.

There are plenty of 'decent' strikers out there. We signed the French top scorer a few years back, have seen him steadily improve and we still want to replace him.

Lacazette is NOT real ambition. That's my argument. Whatever the price, a decent forward from Lyon who can't make the national team. That is not ambition.

Might be for West Ham.

emmetlego

gosplan wrote: »

Granted but are we saying he would be a good addition or we should sign him rather than anyone else.

There are plenty of 'decent' strikers out there. We signed the French top scorer a few years back, have seen him steadily improve and we still want to replace him.

Lacazette is NOT real ambition. That's my argument. Whatever the price, a decent forward from Lyon who can't make the national team. That is not ambition.

Might be for West Ham.

My thoughts exactly!

For my tuppenceworth, I think there will be a shuffling of the deck with some top strikers this summer, especially with all the managerial changes afoot. I'd say we will strike when the iron is hot, much like when we got Ozil and Wellbeck!

domrush

gosplan wrote: »

Granted but are we saying he would be a good addition or we should sign him rather than anyone else.

There are plenty of 'decent' strikers out there. We signed the French top scorer a few years back, have seen him steadily improve and we still want to replace him.

Lacazette is NOT real ambition. That's my argument. Whatever the price, a decent forward from Lyon who can't make the national team. That is not ambition.

Might be for West Ham.

Lyon were runners up in Ligue 1 two years in a row, they can hardly be expected to win the league against the financial behemoth that is PSG. We haven't seen Giroud improve when playing for Arsenal either, he's been bobbing around 15 goals a season since he came. If he'd ever improved on what he did in France we'd probably be in okay shape at the minute with another goal scoring winger.

Secondly Lacazette is being kept out of the team by what is ,when at full strength, one of the best striking force in Europe (Benzema, Griezmann, Martial?, Giroud). Giroud's goal scoring record recently is far better for France than it is for Arsenal before people start saying "oh hes being kept out of the French team by our current striker, how can he be an improvement."

He also suits our style of play much more than Giroud does (admittingly I haven't seen much of him and am taking this from articles); speed, decent finishing etc. Seems to be weak in the air which is a strong point for Giroud, making them an ideal pairing to pick and choose from for different game types. Numerous pundits have compared him to Henry who also didn't set the world alight till his mid twenties.

I'd prefer him to Morata if I'm being honest I think we need a quick pacy striker, we saw this in the spouts of brilliance at the start of the season (Walcott up top) and Welbeck's periods. These also coincided with Sanchez's best form.

I'm not saying hes the solution to all of our problems but if West Ham get him it's another decent target gone from a very very small pool of players, and further, gone to a club which is far smaller than us. Should have gone all out for Dybala last year or Higauin the year before but whats in the past is in the past.

mansize

https://twitter.com/petrcech/status/746285918617804800

Cech not impressed with Brexit

gosplan

domrush wrote: »

Lyon were runners up in Ligue 1 two years in a row, they can hardly be expected to win the league against the financial behemoth that is PSG. We haven't seen Giroud improve when playing for Arsenal either, he's been bobbing around 15 goals a season since he came. If he'd ever improved on what he did in France we'd probably be in okay shape at the minute with another goal scoring winger.

Secondly Lacazette is being kept out of the team by what is ,when at full strength, one of the best striking force in Europe (Benzema, Griezmann, Martial?, Giroud). Giroud's goal scoring record recently is far better for France than it is for Arsenal before people start saying "oh hes being kept out of the French team by our current striker, how can he be an improvement."

He also suits our style of play much more than Giroud does (admittingly I haven't seen much of him and am taking this from articles); speed, decent finishing etc. Seems to be weak in the air which is a strong point for Giroud, making them an ideal pairing to pick and choose from for different game types. Numerous pundits have compared him to Henry who also didn't set the world alight till his mid twenties.

I'd prefer him to Morata if I'm being honest I think we need a quick pacy striker, we saw this in the spouts of brilliance at the start of the season (Walcott up top) and Welbeck's periods. These also coincided with Sanchez's best form.

I'm not saying hes the solution to all of our problems but if West Ham get him it's another decent target gone from a very very small pool of players, and further, gone to a club which is far smaller than us. Should have gone all out for Dybala last year or Higauin the year before but whats in the past is in the past.

Benzema isn't keeping him out of the squad.

Giroud, Gignac, Coman, Payet, Martial, Grizemann.

But I'm not sure you get my point. Or I don't quite get yours.

Should we sign him or not?

I think we should look for a better player first.

greendom

Wenger seems to believe that all the best strikers come from South America these days. (apart from the fact that Vardy is as un-South American as they come). I wonder if that's where our attacking option will come from.

gosplan

greendom wrote: »

Wenger seems to believe that all the best strikers come from South America these days. (apart from the fact that Vardy is as un-South American as they come). I wonder if that's where our attacking option will come from.

I'd be surprised if we didn't go for Higuain tbh.

The Vardy approach was a very different move from Wenger. But if you take it that this is his last season then he should be in the market for finished products only.

itsjaybud

gosplan wrote: »

greendom wrote: »

Wenger seems to believe that all the best strikers come from South America these days. (apart from the fact that Vardy is as un-South American as they come). I wonder if that's where our attacking option will come from.

I'd be surprised if we didn't go for Higuain tbh.

The Vardy approach was a very different move from Wenger. But if you take it that this is his last season then he should be in the market for finished products only.

Really? I would be shocked if Wenger actually tabled a bid that would grab their attention.

gosplan

itsjaybud wrote: »

Really? I would be shocked if Wenger actually tabled a bid that would grab their attention.

At least it'll be a nice surprise!

KaiserGunner

I'd actually be quite curious to know what the value of Giroud would be in today's market? I don't see us signing a striker better than Giroud now as the market is ridiculously inflated. I like Lacazette but £40m is a price that Wenger is not going to pay unless he's a definite hit. This is the current market, so to get value it's going to have to be a hidden gem!

Ol' Donie

Great comment by Andrew Mangan on this week's Arsecast about Sanogo.

"Like a piece of performance art that I don't quite understand."

greendom

KaiserGunner wrote: »

I'd actually be quite curious to know what the value of Giroud would be in today's market? I don't see us signing a striker better than Giroud now as the market is ridiculously inflated. I like Lacazette but £40m is a price that Wenger is not going to pay unless he's a definite hit. This is the current market, so to get value it's going to have to be a hidden gem!

Based on Troy Deeney being priced at £30 million, Giroud must be worth between 35 and 40 million

If Troy Deeney proves to be the benchmark for prices this Summer will be absolutely bonkers.

5star02707

Morning humour 😂

Aaannd Ramsey's curse continues!

Kirby

greendom wrote: »

Based on Troy Deeney being priced at £30 million, Giroud must be worth between 35 and 40 million

If Troy Deeney proves to be the benchmark for prices this Summer will be absolutely bonkers.

People misunderstand how transfer values work. Spectacularly. I'm not picking on you just using your as an example. People see Deeney at 30 million and think "Giroud is better than him ergo he would go for 35 or 40!".

The price has very little to do with ability....or perceived ability. It has to do with the value of the player to the selling club and the buying club.

Deeney is extremely valuable to Watford in that they cannot replace him. They dont want to sell him ergo the high value placed on him. Giroud has not been a hit at Arsenal, Arsenal could easily replace him ergo he wouldn't go for more money just because "he's better".

You factor in leverage, contract length, player power etc. in transfer fee's long before you actually talk about how good a player is in comparison to another. It's way down the list.

wonga77

True, unless your the likes of Real Madrid and you factor in how many jerseys he will sell and then just blow everyone out of the water

AdamD

Clubs make nothing of note from jersey sales

FixitFelix

AdamD wrote: »

Clubs make nothing of note from jersey sales

That's what I thought, nearly sure it all goes to puma etc

wonga77

More jersey sales = Better sponsorship deals

http://www.sportskeeda.com/football/looking-importance-shirt-sales-club

emmetlego

German bookie bwin has slashed the odds on Aubameyang joining us this summer from 12-1 into 3-1! Must be big money going on him to move to us to bring them in that much!

HarryStuby

emmetlego wrote: »

German bookie bwin has slashed the odds on Aubameyang joining us this summer from 12-1 into 3-1! Must be big money going on him to move to us to bring them in that much!

He would be a fantastic signing, great goal scoring record, strong and pace to burn. Heavily linked with city previously, never understood that one with aguerro and iheanacho there

emmetlego

HarryStuby wrote: »

He would be a fantastic signing, great goal scoring record, strong and pace to burn. Heavily linked with city previously, never understood that one with aguerro and iheanacho there

Agree, he is genuine class. If he did go to city, maybe Aguero or Iheanacho would be moved on... I think (as I said before here) there will be big striker moves this summer, and hopefully we get a result out of all the moves!

greendom

Kirby wrote: »

People misunderstand how transfer values work. Spectacularly. I'm not picking on you just using your as an example. People see Deeney at 30 million and think "Giroud is better than him ergo he would go for 35 or 40!".

The price has very little to do with ability....or perceived ability. It has to do with the value of the player to the selling club and the buying club.

Deeney is extremely valuable to Watford in that they cannot replace him. They dont want to sell him ergo the high value placed on him. Giroud has not been a hit at Arsenal, Arsenal could easily replace him ergo he wouldn't go for more money just because "he's better".

You factor in leverage, contract length, player power etc. in transfer fee's long before you actually talk about how good a player is in comparison to another. It's way down the list.

So how much would you say Giroud was worth?

Kirby

greendom wrote: »

So how much would you say Giroud was worth?

Whatever another team is willing to pay for him. It could be 15 million. It could be 20. But it wont be as much as Deeney because Arsenal would be willing to sell and Watford wont be.

This isn't about ability. It rarely is. It's about leverage. It's why Arsenal got so little for Fabregas. He wanted to move. To only one club. And so Barcelona were able to bend Arsenal over a barrel. Leverage.

mansize

Xhaka can't take penalties

JustTheOne

mansize wrote: »

Xhaka can't take penalties

Not good for his manner coming to us.

mansize

mansize wrote: »

Xhaka can't take penalties

This sprung to mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAxjOvH1aNc

brianregan09

Good thing we didn't buy him to take penalties eh ? At least he can go away on holidays now and come back to us fresh and **** and ready to rumble for the new season ahead

wandatowell

That was my first thought too. Time to chill out for a few weeks before preseason.

gosplan

Kirby wrote: »

Whatever another team is willing to pay for him. It could be 15 million. It could be 20. But it wont be as much as Deeney because Arsenal would be willing to sell and Watford wont be.

This isn't about ability. It rarely is. It's about leverage. It's why Arsenal got so little for Fabregas. He wanted to move. To only one club. And so Barcelona were able to bend Arsenal over a barrel. Leverage.

Why would we be willing to sell Giroud???

That would leave us with no strikers.

gosplan

gosplan wrote: »

Why would we be willing to sell Giroud???

That would leave us with no strikers.

Yeah, pretty funny logic. I guess his point that there are lots of factors is true, but ability is definitely not a long way down the list.

greendom

gosplan wrote: »

Why would we be willing to sell Giroud???

That would leave us with no strikers.

Especially with the main story of the summer transfer window being how few strikers are available.
I know this is a little circular but as an example just look how much Watford have turned down for Deeney!

dinorebel

mansize wrote: »

Xhaka can't take penalties

We better not be in any Penalty shoot outs.

Ozil:eek:

DarraghF197

I don't even know why Özil took that tbh. He's not the penalty type imo. Kroos or Müller would be better.

https://twitter.com/r_zana/status/747101569485791232

gosplan

gosplan wrote: »

Why would we be willing to sell Giroud???

That would leave us with no strikers.

I seen exactly why Arsene wants Giroud around today. When other French players bickered and began to panic Giroud was clapping and encouraging his teammates. None of this eating the head off his teammates for a stray pass. He's probably too nice a guy if anything. And he was immense. Doesn't have bags of pace or mobility and I see why the French prefer Gignac, but he's a brilliant squad player. Giroud needs help, not to be replaced. See how well he linked up with Griezman

wandatowell

Giroud is too streaky. Was it 13 games without a goal towards the end of the season?

It's no surprise that our season collapsed when his form did.

wandatowell

wandatowell wrote: »

Giroud is too streaky. Was it 13 games without a goal towards the end of the season?

It's no surprise that our season collapsed when his form did.

I dont think Giroud should be held as the lone scapegoat here. He didnt get a good supply and others like Walcott who should have been helping him were pants. As well as that Welbeck came into form and kept Giroud out of the team. Giroud needs more help then he was getting. He is a lone striker up against two centre halves each game. A little lively striker similar to Griezman would really suit him although AG has signed a new deal with Atletico afaik. I can never understand why Wenger never tried a Giroud,-Podolski combo. They would have complimented each other nicely.

There are better strikers than Giroud but id have no hesitation in keeping him on our squad as he has a brilliant attitude.

domrush

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont think Giroud should be held as the lone scapegoat here. He didnt get a good supply and others like Walcott who should have been helping him were pants. As well as that Welbeck came into form and kept Giroud out of the team. Giroud needs more help then he was getting. He is a lone striker up against two centre halves each game. A little lively striker similar to Griezman would really suit him although AG has signed a new deal with Atletico afaik. I can never understand why Wenger never tried a Giroud,-Podolski combo. They would have complimented each other nicely.

There are better strikers than Giroud but id have no hesitation in keeping him on our squad as he has a brilliant attitude.

No doubt that Giroud is very likeable and has a great attitude, he's more angry with himself than anyone over his barren streaks which is admirable. At the same time a CF for a top 4 team should be scoring more than 20 league goals a season if he's to be considering adequate, even more so at Arsenal where hes likely to receive premium service. There's an overreliance on goals from MF at Arsenal, as evidenced by Sanchez's debut season as well as Ramsey keeping us in contention the year before that.

I don't want to see Giroud go, I think he has a part to play in the team as a squad player. Still though, no team is ever gonna win the league with a 30 year old striker who's never scored more than 16 league goals in the PL as their primary goal scorer. Leagues are won by top strikers such as Vardy (questions about his ability remain, an outlier in my opinion), Costa, Aguero, RVP etc etc leading to the Van Nistlerooy and Henry days.

mansize

Sanchez and Chile win the Copa

Quazzie

mansize wrote: »

Sanchez and Chile win the Copa

All well and good, but he didn't perform for us last year and is just as culpable as Giroud or anyone else was for not winning the title.

L'prof

Quazzie wrote: »

All well and good, but he didn't perform for us last year and is just as culpable as Giroud or anyone else was for not winning the title.

He wasn't as good as he was in his debut season but I think he suffered a little bit from burnout and massively from injury, which impacted his form massively on his return. 17 goals and 10+ assists is a great return from the wing from somebody who didn't perform! His record now stands at 42 goals in 93 games for Arsenal, Giroud didn't git that many until his 3rd season!

farna_boy

domrush wrote: »

No doubt that Giroud is very likeable and has a great attitude, he's more angry with himself than anyone over his barren streaks which is admirable. At the same time a CF for a top 4 team should be scoring more than 20 league goals a season if he's to be considering adequate, even more so at Arsenal where hes likely to receive premium service. There's an overreliance on goals from MF at Arsenal, as evidenced by Sanchez's debut season as well as Ramsey keeping us in contention the year before that.

I don't want to see Giroud go, I think he has a part to play in the team as a squad player. Still though, no team is ever gonna win the league with a 30 year old striker who's never scored more than 16 league goals in the PL as their primary goal scorer. Leagues are won by top strikers such as Vardy (questions about his ability remain, an outlier in my opinion), Costa, Aguero, RVP etc etc leading to the Van Nistlerooy and Henry days.

Does he get premium service though? On a consistent basis?

When was the last time that he got a cross to the near post for what could be considered his trademark goal?

Okay, Monreal and Bellerin can deliver very good crosses and have done throughout the year. The problem is although a lot of these crosses are put into a dangerous position, they rarely reach Giroud or any other Arsenal player for that reason (which also begs the question are they really then a good cross if they aren't to anyone in particular).

Ozil provided Giroud with loads of assists and they were doing extremely well at the start of last season, but then it stopped around the same time Sanchez came back. Ozil does also gives Giroud good passes into the box and in dangerous positions. Unfortunately, usually by the time Giroud gets the ball, he is being marked by two centre halves because he (and any other Arsenal players) have been waiting for a pass into the box for about 5 minutes while it is being passed around midfield or around the outside of the 18 yard box. That's not a criticism of Ozil by the way, more our painfully slow buildup every time we get the ball.

This isn't excusing Giroud. He does need to do better and convert a hell of a lot more. The problem is that if we want the best out of Giroud we either need to put in low crosses consistently to the near post or put in good crosses to where he actually is, also on a consistent basis.

The other way to get the best out of him was like yesterday is to play someone off him consistently where he can lay the ball off to them to put them through and they can score the goal. It happens on occasion, think Sanchez in one of the last games of the season, but considering this is one of Girouds major strengths it is bewildering that it isn't done a lot more often.

wonga77

Didnt see any of the Copa but I see this morning that Sanchez was awarded the player of the tournament, hopefully he'll be back to top form in August

DvB

wonga77 wrote: »

Didnt see any of the Copa but I see this morning that Sanchez was awarded the player of the tournament, hopefully he'll be back to top form in August

Hopefully he'll be in top form as an Arsenal player... never like hearing stories of the likes of Juve hovering.

greendom

domrush wrote: »

No doubt that Giroud is very likeable and has a great attitude, he's more angry with himself than anyone over his barren streaks which is admirable. At the same time a CF for a top 4 team should be scoring more than 20 league goals a season if he's to be considering adequate, even more so at Arsenal where hes likely to receive premium service. There's an overreliance on goals from MF at Arsenal, as evidenced by Sanchez's debut season as well as Ramsey keeping us in contention the year before that.

I don't want to see Giroud go, I think he has a part to play in the team as a squad player. Still though, no team is ever gonna win the league with a 30 year old striker who's never scored more than 16 league goals in the PL as their primary goal scorer. Leagues are won by top strikers such as Vardy (questions about his ability remain, an outlier in my opinion), Costa, Aguero, RVP etc etc leading to the Van Nistlerooy and Henry days.

We are using Giroud as a lone striker and that is not how he excels. Yesterday was a case in point. In the first half he was used as a lone striker and he was the player with the fewest touches on the pitch. That completely transformed in the second half when Griezmann was pushed up along side him. Look how well he combined with him for both the goal and the sending off. In addition Arsenal don't get to the byelines often enough to put decent balls into the box that would suit Giroud's height and strength.

greendom

farna_boy wrote: »

Does he get premium service though? On a consistent basis?

When was the last time that he got a cross to the near post for what could be considered his trademark goal?

Okay, Monreal and Bellerin can deliver very good crosses and have done throughout the year. The problem is although a lot of these crosses are put into a dangerous position, they rarely reach Giroud or any other Arsenal player for that reason (which also begs the question are they really then a good cross if they aren't to anyone in particular).

Ozil provided Giroud with loads of assists and they were doing extremely well at the start of last season, but then it stopped around the same time Sanchez came back. Ozil does also gives Giroud good passes into the box and in dangerous positions. Unfortunately, usually by the time Giroud gets the ball, he is being marked by two centre halves because he (and any other Arsenal players) have been waiting for a pass into the box for about 5 minutes while it is being passed around midfield or around the outside of the 18 yard box. That's not a criticism of Ozil by the way, more our painfully slow buildup every time we get the ball.

This isn't excusing Giroud. He does need to do better and convert a hell of a lot more. The problem is that if we want the best out of Giroud we either need to put in low crosses consistently to the near post or put in good crosses to where he actually is, also on a consistent basis.

The other way to get the best out of him was like yesterday is to play someone off him consistently where he can lay the ball off to them to put them through and they can score the goal. It happens on occasion, think Sanchez in one of the last games of the season, but considering this is one of Girouds major strengths it is bewildering that it isn't done a lot more often.

Didn't see this when I posted my reply but Yes *100

keano_afc

We should count ourselves so fortunate to have a player like Sanchez.

FixitFelix

keano_afc wrote: »

We should count ourselves so fortunate to have a player like Sanchez.

The man has just retired Messi