Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016

emmetlego

emmetlego wrote: »

I agree about his injury prone record, it's a no brainer.... But he's hardly Diaby! And when he is fit and flying, he's a fu****g class player. And still quite young too. So I'll defo agree to disagree with you and Jack....

Wilshere league appearances the last 6 years:
35
0
25
24
14
3
avg: 17
When's he gonna come in useful exactly? Diaby's last 5 years before disaster struck were 12, 15, 24, 29, 16. avg: 16.

If Wilshere doesn't hit at least 20 games (and get close to 10 goals/assists in said games) it's time to let him go.

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

All who chastise and crticise Ox forget he's still young and genuinely loves Arsenal. He deserves another year. The problem with Theo is that he has shown a lack of passion and cowardness even at times...I can understand the frustration.

The very same people who cry out to get rid of what are squad players will later on becry the lack of squad depth...

Wikipedia says he had 9 in 36 for Southampton and has 7 in 100 for Arsenal. Also he's 23 this season, he's meant to be peaking.

greendom

I don't think Ox will ever make it at Arsenal. Probably best for himself and Arsenal if he moves on.

Still hold some hope for Theo though. He was poor for the back end of last season when he returned from injury, but I'm hopeful that with a Summer of rest and a full pre-season he can get back to his best

greendom

greendom wrote: »

I don't think Ox will ever make it at Arsenal. Probably best for himself and Arsenal if he moves on.

Still hold some hope for Theo though. He was poor for the back end of last season when he returned from injury, but I'm hopeful that with a Summer of rest and a full pre-season he can get back to his best

As I've said over and over (though most seem to hate any kind of actual analysis and just call players lazy or cowardly), Walcott looked great at the start of the season then had to drop back later on, with an average position behind Bellerin at RB. That he would do that without being told to sounds unlikely and being that far back is going to affect any winger's game. How good were we on the right when it wasn't Walcott?

L'prof

Deleted User wrote: »

If Wilshere doesn't hit at least 20 games (and get close to 10 goals/assists in said games) it's time to let him go

I'd settle for 20 league games to be honest. Don't really care about goals and assists. I think they'll probably go hand in hand, but when he's fit he's a great asset to the squad regardless

Deleted User wrote: »

Wikipedia says he had 9 in 36 for Southampton and has 7 in 100 for Arsenal. Also he's 23 this season, he's meant to be peaking.

Comparing his league one goals to his premier league goals doesn't make much sense. As for peaking at 23? I think it's safe to say most players don't peak until their late 20s. That said he definitely hasn't kicked on as much as I had hoped he would. I expected far more from him last season. I do think he's still young enough to turn it around and have a good career but i have serious doubt about whether that could ever possibly happen at Arsenal!

emergingstar

I think the biggest thing Wenger has to do this pre season even bigger than any signing

Is to get a system that gets the best of out Ramsey and Ozil, if we do the we will get unreal goals and assists from both

greendom

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As I've said over and over (though most seem to hate any kind of actual analysis and just call players lazy or cowardly), Walcott looked great at the start of the season then had to drop back later on, with an average position behind Bellerin at RB. That he would do that without being told to sounds unlikely and being that far back is going to affect any winger's game. How good were we on the right when it wasn't Walcott?

Interesting on his field position. I wasn't aware of that.

He has received so much flak for the time he pulled out of that challenge. It was bad but it's surely time to move on?

L'prof

L'prof wrote: »

I'd settle for 20 league games to be honest. Don't really care about goals and assists. I think they'll probably go hand in hand, but when he's fit he's a great asset to the squad regardless

20 apps from the bench doing **** all is no use at all. The assists/goals would be far more likely to come from full matches.

Comparing his league one goals to his premier league goals doesn't make much sense. As for peaking at 23? I think it's safe to say most players don't peak until their late 20s. That said he definitely hasn't kicked on as much as I had hoped he would. I expected far more from him last season. I do think he's still young enough to turn it around and have a good career but i have serious doubt about whether that could ever possibly happen at Arsenal!

While it was at a lower level he was still doing brilliantly aged 17. It's now 5-6 years later and he hasn't pushed on in any meaningful way.
"Peak" may not be absolutely correct but he's hitting the career period where fast players/wingers tend to show their best (they tend to peak earlier than defenders/DMs/poachers) and he has shown absolutely nothing.

greendom

greendom wrote: »

Interesting on his field position. I wasn't aware of that.

Yeah I'm not arsed searching, it was 2-3 threads ago when I did a fairly detailed post on it. At the start of last season when we looked conservative but had decent results he was fairly advanced. Later when we went back to passing the ball around he was further back while Bellerin was flying up ahead. That kind of switching of positions doesn't seem conducive to solid defending/transitions to me.

He has received so much flak for the time he pulled out of that challenge. It was bad but it's surely time to move on?

It's easy.

Quazzie

emergingstar wrote: »

I think the biggest thing Wenger has to do this pre season even bigger than any signing

Is to get a system that gets the best of out Ramsey and Ozil, if we do the we will get unreal goals and assists from both

Assisting who exactly. Giroud will NEVER get enough goals no matter who he has feeding him. He proved that last season when Ozil was breaking records behind him.

greendom

Quazzie wrote: »

Assisting who exactly. Giroud will NEVER get enough goals no matter who he has feeding him. He proved that last season when Ozil was breaking records behind him.

Ozil almost broke the assist record mid-season when things started to go pear shaped. Why is 1 player 100% responsible for the dip and the other 0%.

Having said that we do need another striker

emmetlego

So who is this Bolton defender that we have apparently signed?? Any use??

Quazzie

greendom wrote: »

Ozil almost broke the assist record mid-season when things started to go pear shaped. Why is 1 player 100% responsible for the dip and the other 0%.

Having said that we do need another striker

I remember someone posting an article nearing the close of the season that showed that Ozil's chance creation rate didn't drop throughout the season whereas his assists did. Crudely put, he was still creating, but our striker wasn't finishing.

greendom

Quazzie wrote: »

I remember someone posting an article nearing the close of the season that showed that Ozil's chance creation rate didn't drop throughout the season whereas his assists did. Crudely put, he was still creating, but our striker wasn't finishing.

Think we need Button for some proper analysis !

Ken Shamrock

Just on the OX, those appearances are mostly from the bench with feck all time. He also very rarely gets to start consistently for any length of time, i'm not making excuses for him or saying that he hasn't been very disappointing and poor at times but he hasn't been giving nearly as much of a chance as most seem to think.

Bobby Baccala

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Just on the OX, those appearances are mostly from the bench with feck all time. He also very rarely gets to start consistently for any length of time, i'm not making excuses for him or saying that he hasn't been very disappointing and poor at times but he hasn't been giving nearly as much of a chance as most seem to think.

He had about 20 starts in all comps last season and managed 2 goals. We've been getting the same results out of him since day one, I think he's gotten more than a fair chance, more so than Campbell has been shown anyway .

AdamD

greendom wrote: »

Ozil almost broke the assist record mid-season when things started to go pear shaped. Why is 1 player 100% responsible for the dip and the other 0%.

Having said that we do need another striker

Ozil's chance creation stats were fairly similar in both halves of the season. The players in front of him just stopped putting them away.

emmetlego

emmetlego wrote: »

So who is this Bolton defender that we have apparently signed?? Any use??

Kid who played 7 games for a team who got relegated from the Championship last season, I expect he'll fit right into a team in the Champions League.

speedboatchase

So a few Italian newspapers are today saying that Icardi's agent/wife is in London today to meet Arsenal.

The fact that no UK-based reporters are talking about this leads me to believe it's nonsense.

I feel for Walcott. Sure, he's not everyone's cup of tea, but I really feel like we don't play to his strengths. Before his injury, he was averaging a goal every 90 mins, and he's never found form again.

Regarding him pulling out of tackles, he's clearly still affected by his ACL injury, and I don't blame him. Personally, I don't know how footballers come back from that kind of injury and throw themselves in 100%. I've had ACL reconstruction, and it's always in the back of my mind when playing sports etc.

speedboatchase

HANG ON... Icardi news might be true...

https://twitter.com/wandaicardi/status/755711156065533953

Note that the tweet is sent from London, on the same day Corriere dello Sport said Wanda would meet with Arsenal in London.

Either this is happening or we're getting played for Icardi to get a bumper payday from Inter.

Ken Shamrock

What's Icardi like?

emmetlego

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Kid who played 7 games for a team who got relegated from the Championship last season, I expect he'll fit right into a team in the Champions League.

No need for the smart arse reply, I only asked a question!

Baggly

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

What's Icardi like?

Goals to games ratio for Inter is decent. Not amazing, but decent. 47 in 88.

Hard to tell, since its the Italian league. But doesnt compare favourably with Higuain's 71 in 94.

Ken Shamrock

Pter wrote: »

Goals to games ratio for Inter is decent. Not amazing, but decent. 47 in 88.

Hard to tell, since its the Italian league. But doesnt compare favourably with Higuain's 71 in 94.

What type of striker is he though? Pacey? Tall? Skillful?

emmetlego

emmetlego wrote: »

No need for the smart arse reply, I only asked a question!

Wasn't directed at you, just the same old **** this summer. We've made one signing that looks decent while the other 2 are complete no-marks.

Icardi is an interesting one. Arsenal are mad for the old stats, and statistically he's worse than Theo, especially defensively. Crazy.

Skylinehead

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

What's Icardi like?

Pure goalscorer. He's not awful in play, but Giroud would be better in that respect. Reasonably quick, good in the air. Missus is a wagon :pac:

I'd love to get him.

Ken Shamrock

Basil3 wrote: »

Icardi is an interesting one. Arsenal are mad for the old stats, and statistically he's worse than Theo, especially defensively. Crazy.

?? What are you talking about? Defensively? Icardi is a striker, Walcott is a joke of a winger who wants to be a striker.

gosplan

Basil3 wrote: »

Icardi is an interesting one. Arsenal are mad for the old stats, and statistically he's worse than Theo, especially defensively. Crazy.

I only care about his shooting accuracy tbh.

I'd love Higuain but 80 million for 2/3 years vrs 40 million for a career is fairly straightforward.

Icardi plus Mahrez though. Show a bit of ambition please.

Ken Shamrock

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

?? What are you talking about? Defensively? Icardi is a striker, Walcott is a joke of a winger who wants to be a striker.

Yeah, my point is that he's hardly better than Theo going forward, and contributes next to nothing defensively either, so can't really see the appeal...

gosplan wrote: »

I only care about his shooting accuracy tbh.

I'd love Higuain but 80 million for 2/3 years vrs 40 million for a career is fairly straightforward.

Icardi plus Mahrez though. Show a bit of ambition please.

His shooting accuracy is worse than who we have.

DvB

To be fair to Icardi, he's playing for a very limited Inter side that has struggled to create chances the last couple of seasons. Wouldn't be the worst striker we could sign but wouldn't be at a level to push us into genuine title/Cl contender levels either... then again we need more than a striker to do that anyway.

As already mentioned, if we got him & Mahrez I'd sit up & take interest though.

Ken Shamrock

Basil3 wrote: »

Yeah, my point is that he's hardly better than Theo going forward, and contributes next to nothing defensively either, so can't really see the appeal...

He's a striker... why would he contribute defensively? I don't know him but i'd bet my life on the fact that he's better than Theo.

gosplan

Basil3 wrote: »

Yeah, my point is that he's hardly better than Theo going forward, and contributes next to nothing defensively either, so can't really see the appeal...



His shooting accuracy is worse than who we have.

Like worse than Giroud??

No point in comparing anyone to Walcott at this stage.

L'prof

Pter wrote: »

Goals to games ratio for Inter is decent. Not amazing, but decent. 47 in 88.

Hard to tell, since its the Italian league. But doesnt compare favourably with Higuain's 71 in 94.

I'd say it's more than decent. Anything under a goal every 2 games is very good! Beats Giroud's strike-rate for Arsenal, plus he's much younger than Higuain

I'd Prefer Higuain, but if they couldn't sign him I'd be reasonably happy with Icardi

gosplan

gosplan wrote: »

Like worse than Giroud??

No point in comparing anyone to Walcott at this stage.

Definitely not better than Giroud, probably a bit worse....and Giroud misses the target a lot.

I'm only comparing him to Walcott to illustrate how far away from being a World Class Striker he is.

gosplan

L'prof wrote: »

I'd say it's more than decent. Anything under a goal ever 2 games is very good! Beats Giroud's strike-rate for Arsenal, plus he's much younger than Higuain

I'd Prefer Higuain, but if they couldn't sign him I'd be reasonably happy with Icardi

One punch of salt is that Higuain has been more or less 1 in 2 all his career except this last year which was like 38 in 42 or something. Take that out and he's same.

L'prof

L'prof wrote: »

I'd say it's more than decent. Anything under a goal ever 2 games is very good! Beats Giroud's strike-rate for Arsenal, plus he's much younger than Higuain

I'd Prefer Higuain, but if they couldn't sign him I'd be reasonably happy with Icardi

He doesn't beat Giroud on goals per minutes played. Only when you look at games played, which is misleading. Giroud played 5 more games than him last season, but played more than a match less when looking at minutes.

I'm just surprised that people are happy with Icardi. I don't really know him, only looking at stats.

Ken Shamrock

Basil3 wrote: »

He doesn't beat Giroud on goals per minutes played. Only when you look at games played, which is misleading. Giroud played 5 more games than him last season, but played more than a match less when looking at minutes.

I'm just surprised that people are happy with Icardi. I don't really know him, only looking at stats.

If you don't know him then how can you say Theo is better than him going forward and he offers nothing defensively? Just talking out your hole.

Ken Shamrock

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

If you don't know him then how can you say Theo is better than him going forward and he offers nothing defensively? Just talking out your hole.

Errrr....I'm looking at their stats, as I just said. If you have a better assessment, then I'm all ears.

Ken Shamrock

Basil3 wrote: »

Errrr....I'm looking at their stats, as I just said. If you have a better assessment, then I'm all ears.

You're looking at stats and then making ridiculous statements that have nothing to do with stats, if you don't know a player then you can't give an assessment on them so why try with nonsense?

Ken Shamrock

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

You're looking at stats and then making ridiculous statements that have nothing to do with stats, if you don't know a player then you can't give an assessment on them so why try with nonsense?

I haven't made any statements that aren't to do with the stats I was looking at. There are more stats out there than 'goals scored'.

Anyway.....

farna_boy

Please tell me that we are not basing this speculation on the fact that his wife sent a tweet from London, saying nothing more than "good morning, friends".

Skylinehead

Basil3 wrote: »

Errrr....I'm looking at their stats, as I just said. If you have a better assessment, then I'm all ears.

I gave you one just up the page. Based off, you know, actually watching Icardi play.

L'prof

Basil3 wrote: »

He doesn't beat Giroud on goals per minutes played. Only when you look at games played, which is misleading. Giroud played 5 more games than him last season, but played more than a match less when looking at minutes.

I'm just surprised that people are happy with Icardi. I don't really know him, only looking at stats.

Where did you get that stat from? Not saying you're wrong but I can only find minutes for league games. In the league anyway Icardi looks to have a better minutes to goal ratio

Player|Minutes|Goals|Games|M/G|G/G
Higuain @ Napoli|8184|71|104|115|1.5
Icardi @ Inter|6809|47|91|145|1.9
Giroud @ Arsenal|9706|57|135|170|2.4

Skylinehead

Skylinehead wrote: »

I gave you one just up the page. Based off, you know, actually watching Icardi play.

Yup, I know. It got me interested. I looked up his stats, and for a pure goalscorer, he doesn't hit the target very often.

Example, last season. Only 2 shots per 90 minutes, and only 1 of them on target. 1 shot on target per match....Giroud has double the shots, and double on target.

Skylinehead

Basil3 wrote: »

Yup, I know. It got me interested. I looked up his stats, and for a pure goalscorer, he doesn't hit the target very often.

Neither does Cristiano Ronaldo. He's pretty good at goalscoring though, I believe.

This whole infatuation with stats is a bit annoying, and often wholly unrepresentative of a players abilities. Pretty sure Leon Britton had better stats than Xavi a few years back.

Skylinehead

Skylinehead wrote: »

Neither does Cristiano Ronaldo. He's pretty good at goalscoring though, I believe.

This whole infatuation with stats is a bit annoying, and often wholly unrepresentative of a players abilities. Pretty sure Leon Britton had better stats than Xavi a few years back.

Ronaldo has 6.5 shots per match. Icardi has less than 2. They have about the same accuracy (Ron better), but Ronaldo is making the keeper work over 3 times as much.

Stats aren't the be all and end all, but of course they mean a lot. Clubs wouldn't invest so heavily in them if they were meaningless.

Ken Shamrock

Basil3 wrote: »

Ronaldo has 6.5 shots per match. Icardi has less than 2. They have about the same accuracy (Ron better), but Ronaldo is making the keeper work over 3 times as much.

Stats aren't the be all and end all, but of course they mean a lot. Clubs wouldn't invest so heavily in them if they were meaningless.

:pac: give it a rest

Ken Shamrock

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

:pac: give it a rest

I'm on a roll, though :pac:

Lunch break over, back to my statistician day job

Baggly

L'prof wrote: »

I'd say it's more than decent. Anything under a goal every 2 games is very good! Beats Giroud's strike-rate for Arsenal, plus he's much younger than Higuain

I'd Prefer Higuain, but if they couldn't sign him I'd be reasonably happy with Icardi

Good (Giroud) < Decent (Icardi) < Very Good (Higuain) < Amazeballs (Ronaldo, Messi, Henry at one stage).

Just my opinion, and it's all relative.

Agree with you in terms of they can't get Higuain.