Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Ol' Donie wrote: »

He's won 2 in the last 3 years. That improves that ratio.

The FA cups don't paper over the 10 years of nothing. Even when we won the fa cups they were only booby prizes after being humiliated in Europe both years and doing zip in the league. Who cares about fa cups really.

gosplan

The Honey Monster wrote: »

The FA cups don't paper over the 10 years of nothing. Even when we won the fa cups they were only booby prizes after being humiliated in Europe both years and doing zip in the league. Who cares about fa cups really.

But the 10 years of no trophies equally don't tell the story of the positive net spend, the stadium etc.

Wenger was phenomenal manager to have in the club for that decade or so, if you view the new stadium as a priority.

He hasn't yet shown that he's the man to bring the club forward from that though.

emergingstar

emergingstar wrote: »

Some people have different opinions to other people, imagine that

No need to be getting upset about it

Ive no issue with difference of opinion but i take issue when a certain person goes on a mission to single out my posts as 'lazy' and uninformative despite they actually being part of a greater consensus of opinion on this thread.

Im pissed as to why we still persist with certain members of that squad. Fergie would have run Chamberlain and Walcott long ago (if he'd let them in the gate to begin with in the first place that is). Im also pissed as to why Arsenal have to settle for microwave dinners when Wenger is on 8m a year and it costs 62 pound or so for the cheapest ticket. Im wasnt trying to claim i got this information first but why at this stage is it still happening at Arsenal?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ive no issue with difference of opinion but i take issue when a certain person goes on a mission to single out my posts as 'lazy' and uninformative despite they actually being part of a greater consensus of opinion on this thread.

Im pissed as to why we still persist with certain members of that squad. Fergie would have run Chamberlain and Walcott long ago (if he'd let them in the gate to begin with in the first place that is). Im also pissed as to why Arsenal have to settle for microwave dinners when Wenger is on 8m a year and it costs 62 pound or so for the cheapest ticket. Im wasnt trying to claim i got this information first but why at this stage is it still happening at Arsenal?

Man, I clearly hurt your feelings the other day. Apologies for that.

What I said was that you chose a strange time to have a rant about several players who had just had really good performances in a match. I also said it was lazy to just throw ticket prices and managers wages onto the end of said rant, for no apparent reason.

I still stand by that, because it offers nothing to the thread. It's not an opinion, it's regurgitated rubbish.

Polo_Mint

JustTheOne wrote: »

He has the most experience out of all managers in the league.

Miles more experience so should be well used and prepared for what it takes to succeed in the league.

But he has gone backwards.

Yep

And instead of using his experience, He was watching managers Join the PL and perform a smash and grab of the league before leaving again.

Arsenal could and should have taken over the league titles from Fergie.
But I also think its not just Wenger who has caused this gap.

gosplan

Just in the interest of balance I think what's happened to the squad over the last few seasons needs to be clarified.

I'm not saying it's job done or nothing's gone wrong but a lot has happened since we stopped paying for the stadium.

Obviously we all want it finalised but a serious amount of older players and deadwood has gone and the squad has been hugely changed.

So in the three seasons since finances became available we've kept the following players

Kos, Mert, Gibbs, Monreal, Wilshire, Ramsey, Caz, Coq, Ox, Giroud, Walcott, Campbell

And made the following changes...

GK:
Szcz, Fab, Mannone - out
Cech, Ospina, Martinez - in

Defence:
Sagna, Jenks, Verm, Squillachi, Djourou, Santos - out
Bellerin, Debuchy, Chambers, Gab, Holding - in

Midfield:
Diaby, Rosicky, Arteta, Denilson, Frimpong - out
Xhaka, Elneny, Iwobi, Ozil, The Jeff - in

Wingers/Strikers:
Podolski, Arshavin, Gervinho, Chamakh, Ryo, Bendtner, Park - out
Sanchez, Welbeck, Akpom, Sanogo - in

In total it's cost us about 150 million. The only players we really got any money for were Gerv and Verm.

That's more net spend than Chelsea in the same time.

It's about 50% more than Liverpool.

Tottenham have MADE about 10 million in the same time.

We are spending more than anyone except the two rediculous Manchester clubs since the financial shackles came off.

If we spend on a defender and a big striker this window, we're significantly third and closer to the top two than the rest.

The squad has been transformed in terms of age and ability.

Yea the striker is coming too late, yes we weren't prepared for last weekend, yes there's lots wrong.

But don't lose sight of what's been happening that's right too.

Basil3

Basil3 wrote: »

Man, I clearly hurt your feelings the other day. Apologies for that.

What I said was that you chose a strange time to have a rant about several players who had just had really good performances in a match. I also said it was lazy to just throw ticket prices and managers wages onto the end of said rant, for no apparent reason.

I still stand by that, because it offers nothing to the thread. It's not an opinion, it's regurgitated rubbish.

You think there is no deadwood in the squad.
You found it unbelievable that Liverpool would get any respect before the game, LOL......4 goals.

You talk some utter brown slimy yourself.

wonga77

Interesting, I find it hard to believe that we've spent more than Chelsea or Liverpool though. The only reason our net spend is so high is because most of the players you mentioned that left were released. Chelsea bought big and sold big as did spurs and pool. We spent big money on a few but most of the players reached the end of their contract or careers so we got frick all for them.

JustTheOne

gosplan wrote: »

Just in the interest of balance I think what's happened to the squad over the last few seasons needs to be clarified.

I'm not saying it's job done or nothing's gone wrong but a lot has happened since we stopped paying for the stadium.

Obviously we all want it finalised but a serious amount of older players and deadwood has gone and the squad has been hugely changed.

So in the three seasons since finances became available we've kept the following players

Kos, Mert, Gibbs, Monreal, Wilshire, Ramsey, Caz, Coq, Ox, Giroud, Walcott, Campbell

And made the following changes...

GK:
Szcz, Fab, Mannone - out
Cech, Ospina, Martinez - in

Defence:
Sagna, Jenks, Verm, Squillachi, Djourou, Santos - out
Bellerin, Debuchy, Chambers, Gab, Holding - in

Midfield:
Diaby, Rosicky, Arteta, Denilson, Frimpong - out
Xhaka, Elneny, Iwobi, Ozil, The Jeff - in

Wingers/Strikers:
Podolski, Arshavin, Gervinho, Chamakh, Ryo, Bendtner, Park - out
Sanchez, Welbeck, Akpom, Sanogo - in

In total it's cost us about 150 million. The only players we really got any money for were Gerv and Verm.

That's more net spend than Chelsea in the same time.

It's about 50% more than Liverpool.

Tottenham have MADE about 10 million in the same time.

We are spending more than anyone except the two rediculous Manchester clubs since the financial shackles came off.

If we spend on a defender and a big striker this window, we're significantly third and closer to the top two than the rest.

The squad has been transformed in terms of age and ability.

Yea the striker is coming too late, yes we weren't prepared for last weekend, yes there's lots wrong.

But don't lose sight of what's been happening that's right too.

Well even bigger reason to show he is failing if he is spending so much yet still can't beat Leicester to a league title.

JustTheOne

JustTheOne wrote: »

Well even bigger reason to show he is failing if he is spending so much yet still can't beat Leicester to a league title.

Hard to argue with that logic*

*Actually, it really is....but there's no point.

Quazzie

gosplan wrote: »

GK:
Szcz, Fab, Mannone - out
Cech, Ospina, Martinez - in

Defence:
Sagna, Jenks, Verm, Squillachi, Djourou, Santos - out
Bellerin, Debuchy, Chambers, Gab, Holding - in

Midfield:
Diaby, Rosicky, Arteta, Denilson, Frimpong - out
Xhaka, Elneny, Iwobi, Ozil, The Jeff - in

Wingers/Strikers:
Podolski, Arshavin, Gervinho, Chamakh, Ryo, Bendtner, Park - out
Sanchez, Welbeck, Akpom, Sanogo - in

In total it's cost us about 150 million. The only players we really got any money for were Gerv and Verm.

That's more net spend than Chelsea in the same time.

It's about 50% more than Liverpool.

Tottenham have MADE about 10 million in the same time.

We are spending more than anyone except the two rediculous Manchester clubs since the financial shackles came off.

If we spend on a defender and a big striker this window, we're significantly third and closer to the top two than the rest.

The squad has been transformed in terms of age and ability.

Yea the striker is coming too late, yes we weren't prepared for last weekend, yes there's lots wrong.

But don't lose sight of what's been happening that's right too.

The players bolded are still with us, and the players in RED wanted out from the club.

gosplan

wonga77 wrote: »

Interesting, I find it hard to believe that we've spent more than Chelsea or Liverpool though. The only reason our net spend is so high is because most of the players you mentioned that left were released. Chelsea bought big and sold big as did spurs and pool. We spent big money on a few but most of the players reached the end of their contract or careers so we got frick all for them.

Yes. All the players we got in the years of austerity were gotten rid of for virtually nothing. Older players were released.

But it's interesting, nonetheless.

The squad isn't finished but it's virtually transformed.

gosplan

Quazzie wrote: »

The players bolded are still with us, and the players in RED wanted out from the club.

First one, granted. Forgot they were loaned out.

Not sure what the point is with the second one. Were we fighting to keep Denilson, Arteta and Verm?

Quazzie

gosplan wrote: »

First one, granted. Forgot they were loaned out.

Not sure what the point is with the second one. Were we fighting to keep Denilson, Arteta and Verm?

Not Denilson but we were with Arteta and Verm. Admittedly letting Verm go, with his injury record might have been better business in hindsight.

Anyways, the overall point is, and others are making the same point, is that it's not just buying players we're rubbish at, we're also rubbish at getting rid of them.

From the list Fab, Sagna, Verm, Squillachi, Djourou, Diaby, Rosicky, Arteta, Denilson, Frimpong, Arshavin, Gervinho, Chamakh, Ryo, Bendtner, & Park should've been sold before they were. Every single one of these players w got a lot less than we should have for them

gosplan

Also as regards deadwood, I count 3.

Walcott, Sanogo, Chambers.

I'm being harsh on Chambers maybe but I think he just will never add much at the top level.

That's not too bad in fairness.

Two more players and we'll have spent the third most, close to second, in the last three years.

We'll have close to the best squad in the league depending on the players that come in.


Getting them to win stuff is a whole other matter though.

Bobby Baccala

gosplan wrote: »

Also as regards deadwood, I count 3.

Walcott, Sanogo, Chambers.

I'm being harsh on Chambers maybe but I think he just will never add much at the top level.

That's not too bad in fairness.

Two more players and we'll have spent the third most, close to second, in the last three years.

We'll have close to the best squad in the league depending on the players that come in.


Getting them to win stuff is a whole other matter though.

Chambers and Sanogo aren't in the same bracket at all for me. At least Chambers has shown promise, Sanogo has never looked like a striker at all.

gosplan

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Chambers and Sanogo aren't in the same bracket at all for me. At least Chambers has shown promise, Sanogo has never looked like a striker at all.

Yes, like I said I may be being a bit harsh.

I've just never seen anything from Chambers that makes me thing he'll contribute to a squad looking to win the league.

One thing is despite our apparent search for "value" we don't seem to get much back when selling on. Look at what Chelsea and even Liverpool get back when they sell on players they don't want anymore.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

One thing is despite our apparent search for "value" we don't seem to get much back when selling on. Look at what Chelsea and even Liverpool get back when they sell on players they don't want anymore.

Ah, the magical formula:

Value = Resale Value * (Talent + Age * Strengthening of team)

Bobby Baccala

gosplan wrote: »

Yes, like I said I may be being a bit harsh.

I've just never seen anything from Chambers that makes me thing he'll contribute to a squad looking to win the league.

He does fine when he partners with Mert or Kos, not great but fine. I imagine he'll turn out as a Gary Cahill level of centre back, not outstanding but a good squad player.

gosplan

Deleted User wrote: »

One thing is despite our apparent search for "value" we don't seem to get much back when selling on. Look at what Chelsea and even Liverpool get back when they sell on players they don't want anymore.

They often buy players for decent money though so they're selling them on in their prime.

Mata, Suarez, Krusty etc.

wandatowell

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

He does fine when he partners with Mert or Kos, not great but fine. I imagine he'll turn out as a Gary Cahill level of centre back, not outstanding but a good squad player.

Bit harsh on Cahill. Maybe I'm wrong but hasn't he been first choice alongside Terry at CB for quite a few years now?

Ardennes1944

I would have loved a player like Cahill all these years. Wanted us to sign him from Bolton back in the day.

Skylinehead

I'd love Chambers to turn out like Gary Cahill tbh

https://twitter.com/BenDinnery/status/765863421908754432

Iwobi out for up to a month. I think we've been relying on him way too much, not surprising in a way.

DeclanRe

Not that anything like it would happen, but even if we did sign someone crazy good in the last few days of the TM.
It doesn't matter who we sign, AW's complete lack of movement to sort out our CB issues is a joke. And as a constant Wenger defender, im done with him. Id happily see him out the door tomorrow.
Leicester are going to destroy us this weekend

batistuta9

Basil3 wrote: »

Hard to argue with that logic*

*Actually, it really is....but there's no point.

why not go on?

why didn't arsenal win the league last season?

batistuta9

batistuta9 wrote: »

why not go on?

why didn't arsenal win the league last season?

In my estimation, it's because Leicester had more points in the league table at the conclusion of the final game of the season. Yup, pretty sure that's why.

speedboatchase

At this point, seems like we're really going into the Leicester game without a new CB. Wow.

wawaman

speedboatchase wrote: »

At this point, seems like we're really going into the Leicester game without a new CB. Wow.

at this stage its basically a deriliction of duty

batistuta9

Basil3 wrote: »

In my estimation, it's because Leicester had more points in the league table at the conclusion of the final game of the season. Yup, pretty sure that's why.

just to confirm, you're pretty sure wenger couldn't lead a team he's had years assemble to the title?

i've no real appetite for wenger bashing, all he's done & he's at the club until next summer anyway but even after the two fa cup wins, i still feel he'll not win the league again unless everything falls into place exactly like leicester

batistuta9

batistuta9 wrote: »

just to confirm, you're pretty sure wenger couldn't lead a team he's had years assemble to the title?

i've no real appetite for wenger bashing, all he's done & he's at the club until next summer anyway but even after the two fa cup wins, i still feel he'll not win the league again unless everything falls into place exactly like leicester

I was responding to someone who was saying how big a failure Wenger was due to net spend and still failing to beat Leicester. Here's the net spend from last summer:



Now whichever way you try to skew the Arsenal spending to make it favour other teams over them, and make last season look like a huge failure, the reality is that Arsenal/Arsene failed the least out of all the other clubs, so a pretty weird stick to beat him with.

That said, they should be spending a lot more, regardless of what any net spend figures say.

L'prof

gosplan wrote: »

Just in the interest of balance I think what's happened to the squad over the last few seasons needs to be clarified.

I'm not saying it's job done or nothing's gone wrong but a lot has happened since we stopped paying for the stadium.

Obviously we all want it finalised but a serious amount of older players and deadwood has gone and the squad has been hugely changed.

So in the three seasons since finances became available we've kept the following players

Kos, Mert, Gibbs, Monreal, Wilshire, Ramsey, Caz, Coq, Ox, Giroud, Walcott, Campbell

And made the following changes...

GK:
Szcz, Fab, Mannone - out
Cech, Ospina, Martinez - in

Defence:
Sagna, Jenks, Verm, Squillachi, Djourou, Santos - out
Bellerin, Debuchy, Chambers, Gab, Holding - in

Midfield:
Diaby, Rosicky, Arteta, Denilson, Frimpong - out
Xhaka, Elneny, Iwobi, Ozil, The Jeff - in

Wingers/Strikers:
Podolski, Arshavin, Gervinho, Chamakh, Ryo, Bendtner, Park - out
Sanchez, Welbeck, Akpom, Sanogo - in

In total it's cost us about 150 million. The only players we really got any money for were Gerv and Verm.

That's more net spend than Chelsea in the same time.

It's about 50% more than Liverpool.

Tottenham have MADE about 10 million in the same time.

We are spending more than anyone except the two rediculous Manchester clubs since the financial shackles came off.

If we spend on a defender and a big striker this window, we're significantly third and closer to the top two than the rest.

The squad has been transformed in terms of age and ability.

Yea the striker is coming too late, yes we weren't prepared for last weekend, yes there's lots wrong.

But don't lose sight of what's been happening that's right too.

wonga77 wrote: »

Interesting, I find it hard to believe that we've spent more than Chelsea or Liverpool though. The only reason our net spend is so high is because most of the players you mentioned that left were released. Chelsea bought big and sold big as did spurs and pool. We spent big money on a few but most of the players reached the end of their contract or careers so we got frick all for them.

Because I like tables, I've done one up that includes gross and net spend which I think is interesting too

Team|Bought (m)|Sold (m)|Net (m)
Man City|£494.6|£95.4|£399.2
Man Utd|£465.8|£123.3|£342.6
Arsenal|£193.9|£44.5|£149.4
Chelsea|£358.5|£240.7|£117.8
Liverpool|£316.3|£205.3|£111.0
West Ham|£131.6|£24.5|£107.1
Leicester|£95.6|£37.0|£58.6
Everton|£142.8|£97.5|£45.3
Spurs|£213.2|£219.2|-£6.0
Southampton|£172.4|£187.9|-£15.5

L'prof

L'prof wrote: »

Because I like tables, I've done one up that includes gross and net spend which I think is interesting too

Team|Bought (m)|Sold (m)|Net (m)
Man City|£494.6|£95.4|£399.2
Man Utd|£465.8|£123.3|£342.6
Arsenal|£193.9|£44.5|£149.4
Chelsea|£358.5|£240.7|£117.8
Liverpool|£316.3|£205.3|£111
West Ham|£131.6|£24.5|£107.1
Everton|£142.8|£97.5|£45.3
Spurs|£213.2|£219.2|-£6
Southampton|£172.4|£187.9|-£15.5

Which years is this over? Last 4 summers? And where's Tottenham?

batistuta9

Basil3 wrote: »

I was responding to someone who was saying how big a failure Wenger was due to net spend and still failing to beat Leicester. Here's the net spend from last summer:



Now whichever way you try to skew the Arsenal spending to make it favour other teams over them, and make last season look like a huge failure, the reality is that Arsenal/Arsene failed the least out of all the other clubs, so a pretty weird stick to beat him with.

That said, they should be spending a lot more, regardless of what any net spend figures say.

last summer, here's the last three summers

L'prof

Basil3 wrote: »

Which years is this over? Last 4 summers? And where's Tottenham?

Same years Gos was including. This season and previous 3. Spurs are there, just added Leicester too

batistuta9

batistuta9 wrote: »

last summer, here's the last three summers

Yeah, and Leicester were the only team that Arsenal didn't beat....

The point is that if Arsenal were a huge failure based on the freak occurrence of what happened with Leicester, then there are plenty of other clubs that are even bigger failures.

Out of interest, what is Tottenham net spend since Poch came in?

L'prof

L'prof wrote: »

Same years Gos was including. This season and previous 3. Spurs are there, just added Leicester too

Sorry, going blind. Spurs are the only team you didn't call by their place name

batistuta9

Basil3 wrote: »

Yeah, and Leicester were the only team that Arsenal didn't beat....

The point is that if Arsenal were a huge failure based on the freak occurrence of what happened with Leicester, then there are plenty of other clubs that are even bigger failures.

Out of interest, what is Tottenham net spend since Poch came in?

arsenal have qualified for the CL 18th years in a row, how many have cherry orchard. lets celebrate that too shall we?

why are you shifting it on to other clubs?

KaiserGunner

Basil3 wrote: »

I was responding to someone who was saying how big a failure Wenger was due to net spend and still failing to beat Leicester. Here's the net spend from last summer:



Now whichever way you try to skew the Arsenal spending to make it favour other teams over them, and make last season look like a huge failure, the reality is that Arsenal/Arsene failed the least out of all the other clubs, so a pretty weird stick to beat him with.

That said, they should be spending a lot more, regardless of what any net spend figures say.

Yeah I agree with you, that the clubs that finished below us last season were bigger failures due to the money spent.

But why wouldn't Arsenal spend anymore than what they did last summer? The team/squad weren't good enough to win the league title and yet money was there to strengthen and they didn't. Negligence of the highest order by Wenger and the board.

batistuta9

batistuta9 wrote: »

arsenal have qualified for the CL 18th years in a row, how many have cherry orchard. lets celebrate that too shall we?

why are you shifting it on to other clubs?

Because the league is against other clubs. It would be pretty lame playing a league with only one team.

If a team in the league comes second to another team that spent less than them, this is the reason that they are a huge failure? Ok then.

KaiserGunner

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Yeah I agree with you, that the clubs that finished below us last season were bigger failures due to the money spent.

But why wouldn't Arsenal spend anymore than what they did last summer? The team/squad weren't good enough to win the league title and yet money was there to strengthen and they didn't. Negligence of the highest order by Wenger and the board.

I agree, the failure is in not bringing in the quality of players to win them the league. Nothing to do with their net spend.

Basil3

Basil3 wrote: »

Man, I clearly hurt your feelings the other day. Apologies for that.

What I said was that you chose a strange time to have a rant about several players who had just had really good performances in a match. I also said it was lazy to just throw ticket prices and managers wages onto the end of said rant, for no apparent reason.

I still stand by that, because it offers nothing to the thread. It's not an opinion, it's regurgitated rubbish.

Regurgitated due to it being groundhog day again and again and the club continue to string their supporters along on this merry go round. And no you didn't hurt my feelings but your whole obtuseness to the central issues is quite baffling to be honest.

Also Walcott and ox scored in pre season friendlies so forgive me if I don't wet my pants with excitement when our perennial failures go apeshït against Swedish part timers

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Regurgitated due to it being groundhog day again and again and the club continue to string their supporters along on this merry go round. And no you didn't hurt my feelings but your whole obtuseness to the central issues is quite baffling to be honest.

Also Walcott and ox scored in pre season friendlies so forgive me if I don't wet my pants with excitement when our perennial failures go apeshït against Swedish part timers

They also scored against Liverpool.

batistuta9

Basil3 wrote: »

Because the league is against other clubs. It would be pretty lame playing a league with only one team.

If a team in the league comes second to another team that spent less than them, this is the reason that they are a huge failure? Ok then.

if you bleat on for years about financial doping, etc. then yes it's a huge failure.
just like for man u & city and worst of all chelsea ending up 10th a massive failure

emergingstar

Just sign a CB please

gosplan

batistuta9 wrote: »

if you bleat on for years about financial doping, etc. then yes it's a huge failure.
just like for man u & city and worst of all chelsea ending up 10th a massive failure

A serious point for me is that all of these managers were sacked.

Basil3

Basil3 wrote: »

They also scored against Liverpool.

They shouldn't be at the club. The heat came on last year and both faltered

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

If anyone is any doubt as to whether it's Wengers fault or Gazidas/boards fault have a read of this. It's RVP's statement from 4 years ago as he was about to leave us...

http://www.punditarena.com/football/jmurphy/robin-van-persies-statement-arsenal-exit-reads-like-prophecy-four-years-later/

Sorry for punditarena link, I can't find the reddit link I had up earlier.

keano_afc

Basil3 wrote: »

Because the league is against other clubs. It would be pretty lame playing a league with only one team.

If a team in the league comes second to another team that spent less than them, this is the reason that they are a huge failure? Ok then.

What other teams do or dont do in the transfer market and how much they spend has chuff all to do with Arsenal football club. Saying other teams spent more and didnt win the league either is probably the biggest straw man argument I ever heard. Celebrating failure because it wasnt as expensive a failure as the other big clubs? Sorry, not having that. Besides, City, Chelsea and United have all won the league in the last 12 years. We havent.

Arsene Wenger is a failure because he doesn't adequately prepare HIS team or sign the necessary players. There's no point going over old ground because we know the areas he falls down in. You're one of I think 2 posters in here that still supports him. Take of the blinkers dude, he's finished.