Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016

jive

Kirby wrote: »

Exactly. Sure look at Liverpool and Benteke. Total waste of money and hasn't worked out at all. And yet when they sell him, they will recoup most of what they paid for him. There is risk but it's minimal.

I agree with this. The thing is, which Wenger is fully aware, fees have gone mad.

Let's say you have £40m to drop on a player today. OK that is mental, "it's football correctness gone mad". In 2 years that player, not even having performed well, would still be worth close to that figure unless the transfer market collapses in which case they have bigger issues than the fee they paid for that player.

It's like buying a house during the Celtic Tiger era. Let the good times roll baby, the asset will increase in value so the fee you pay even if it's over the odds today will still come close to what you will get in return.

gosplan

And that's why we've spent more than Chelsea. Lukaku, Mata plus Krusty.

tayto lover

gosplan wrote: »

What's bugging everyone tbh is that we're into a premiership season, a few days from the end of the window and Wenger's over-cautiousness in the transfer window means that we have one single reasonable option for the most important position on the team and he's not fit right now.

The thing I posted the other day of us actually spending more than Chelsea(net spend) opened my eyes a bit to what Wenger has done with the squad. I think he deserves quite a lot of credit for that. There was no value in the squad 4 years ago and he's added a huge amount, gotten rid of the older players, we have a great squad now with massive potential in many areas.

But we will not improve in terms of winning and challenging when our goal scoring requirements rest solely on Giroud and Sanchez.

The squad is like the invincibles but for the CF position. To win or even challenge with this squad we need 30 goals from Giroud and that's plainly not going to happen.

At some point Wenger needs to break from his long term thinking

Yes, Lacazette may not be the forward you want. Yes he might not work out.

But what every title chasing manager would do is say 'well maybe not but we'll buy him for 60 and sell him for 35 in 2 years if that's the case'.

Wenger has this massive aversion to taking players that he's even a little bit doubtful about. He doesn't always get it right but he seems terrified of getting it wrong, that it'll somehow hamper the squad building exercise he has going on.

He simply has to move on this issue. The backlash will be too much.

Maybe he'll be wrong but fcuk it, at least we'd be trying.

The fact that we spent more than Chelsea is moot.
They were in a much stronger position starting than we were.
They replace like with like, we don't.
They had won the league recently with much the same squad, we haven't won it in 12 years and don't look like doing it either.

Quazzie

If Koz is back this weekend, then surely Ozil and Giroud are too.

greendom

Quazzie wrote: »

If Koz is back this weekend, then surely Ozil and Giroud are too.

Wenger said that he was more likely to risk Kos than the other 2

tayto lover

Quazzie wrote: »

If Koz is back this weekend, then surely Ozil and Giroud are too.

Can't get my head around this extra time off lark at all. Load of bull.

Godge

ronjo wrote: »

What makes you say our squad as improved?

While I appreciate your post is laced with sarcasm I would put is roughly on a par with Liverpool and Spurs and behind the other 3.
Leicester wont compete in my opinion.

Since 1 September 2015, we have added Elneny, Xhaka and Holding. Bellerin has cemented his place in the team rather than the squad, and Iwobi has come in too. From the Olympics it looks like Gnabry will be able to contribute this season if Wenger wants him, Reine-Adelaide has been promoted from the Academy and Zelalem may not go out on loan. Martinez is in the squad as third goalkeeper as opposed to Macey who was green then, though a lot better now.

As against that, we have lost Flamini, Arteta and Rosicky.

Some incremental improvements, some significant improvements, but improvement overall. Whether that improvement is enough compared to others is a different question.

I think Utd. and City appear to have improved by much more, Chelsea not so sure, and Liverpool and Spurs to date don't appear to have gained much. Both the latter two will charge out the gate at the start of the season but will run out of steam sometime after Christmas. Leicester had a freak season, but an Everton, Southampton or West Ham could have one of those this year.

Only thing is, Utd. and City may have done their spending already. Chelsea and ourselves will probably go back into the transfer market so there is room for some of this to change.

There are always two times to pass judgement, on 1 September when the transfer window closes, on the potential of the squad, at the end of the season on whether that potential delivered. Last season was a good outcome on paper - finishing second - the real disappointment was that the squad and team were good enough to win the thing, and didn't.

greendom

tayto lover wrote: »

Can't get my head around this extra time off lark at all. Load of bull.

it's not that difficult to understand is it? Players who have had a long season plus playing for teams that have reached the latter stages of the Euros needed a break to ensure their fitness for the season ahead and lessen the chance of injury.

do you think it's being done to spite supporters ? To ensure Arsenal don't win the league. I'm sure he want to play them all if it was an option.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

it's not that difficult to understand is it? Players who have had a long season plus playing for teams that have reached the latter stages of the Euros needed a break to ensure their fitness for the season ahead and lessen the chance of injury.

do you think it's being done to spite supporters ? To ensure Arsenal don't win the league. I'm sure he want to play them all if it was an option.

It is

Godge

tayto lover wrote: »

Can't get my head around this extra time off lark at all. Load of bull.

He brought Ramsey back too soon and lost him to an injury. Wenger can't win on this one.

Last season he didn't give Sanchez enough rest at the start of the season and he ran out of steam early in the New Year contributing to us falling out of the title race.

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

it's not that difficult to understand is it? Players who have had a long season plus playing for teams that have reached the latter stages of the Euros needed a break to ensure their fitness for the season ahead and lessen the chance of injury.

do you think it's being done to spite supporters ? To ensure Arsenal don't win the league. I'm sure he want to play them all if it was an option.

How many were United missing last week due to being given extra time off or any other teams?
As someone said Ozil last kicked a ball 6 weeks ago.
Wish i had 3 weeks off in the summer.

tayto lover

Godge wrote: »

He brought Ramsey back too soon and lost him to an injury. Wenger can't win on this one.

Last season he didn't give Sanchez enough rest at the start of the season and he ran out of steam early in the New Year contributing to us falling out of the title race.

How do you know Ramsey's injury was due to this?

AdamD

What job do you work where you can't get 3 weeks off? :pac:

greendom

tayto lover wrote: »

How many were United missing last week due to being given extra time off or any other teams?
As someone said Ozil last kicked a ball 6 weeks ago.
Wish i had 3 weeks off in the summer.

How many Portuguese, French, Welsh or German players were in the United 11?

greendom

tayto lover wrote: »

How do you know Ramsey's injury was due to this?

I thought Ramsey got injured to p**s everyone off ?

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

How many Portuguese, French, Welsh or German players were in the United 11?

You're the one making the claims for extra time off, so you should know.
Are there others teams allowing their players extra time off?

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

I thought Ramsey got injured to p**s everyone off ?

Evade the question much?

gosplan

tayto lover wrote: »

The fact that we spent more than Chelsea is moot.
They were in a much stronger position starting than we were.
They replace like with like, we don't.
They had won the league recently with much the same squad, we haven't won it in 12 years and don't look like doing it either.

I get you but i think it's a relevant point to all the comments that says Wenger is scared to spend.

It is of course moot if we continue to fail to make any progress. Our spending doesn't seem to make a difference to our points totals. That's the issue.

I don't agree with the like with like point at all. We've been replacing players with better players for the last 4 years. if you go back 10 years ago, yes we were replacing Gilberto with Song and Vieira with Denilson and alll that but not recently.

but we need to see a difference in performances.

greendom

tayto lover wrote: »

Evade the question much?

It is well recognised that Arsenal seem to suffer from injuries a lot more than many other clubs seem to. He is finally doing something about it and yet he still gets criticized.

Classic case of damned if you do.

it is absolutely clear that Wenger can do absolutely nothing right at the moment.

Godge

tayto lover wrote: »

How do you know Ramsey's injury was due to this?

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal-injury-news-arsene-wenger-admits-to-pushing-aaron-ramsey-after-latest-hamstring-injury-a3320256.html

"I pushed Ramsey in and he got injured. It’s a very difficult situation to sort out because the players come back late because of the Euros and, on top of that, you play them and they get injured. If you don’t play them you miss them."


http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/fixtures-results/match-report/

Fonte was left on the bench by Southampton.

Kante played for Chelsea, but he was dropped halfway though the Euros by France.

Kane looked out of sorts for Spurs, could have done with more time off to clear his head.

Here's one for you, at the end of September, come back and name a player who went to the end of the Euros and played every game at the start of the season in England for their club. I doubt if there will be one.

tayto lover

gosplan wrote: »

I get you but i think it's a relevant point to all the comments that says Wenger is scared to spend.

It is of course moot if we continue to fail to make any progress. Our spending doesn't seem to make a difference to our points totals. That's the issue.

I don't agree with the like with like point at all. We've been replacing players with better players for the last 4 years. if you go back 10 years ago, yes we were replacing Gilberto with Song and Vieira with Denilson and alll that but not recently.

but we need to see a difference in performances.

Regardless f how many points we get through the years we still don't win the EPL, we still finish behind. We got 83 in 07/08 and still managed to finish third. It's down to mentality and ours is weak or maybe buying that sort of player. its hard to know.

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

It is well recognised that Arsenal seem to suffer from injuries a lot more than many other clubs seem to. He is finally doing something about it and yet he still gets criticized.

Classic case of damned if you do.

it is absolutely clear that Wenger can do absolutely nothing right at the moment.

My God we all recognise the fact of the injuries but these have happened even when there has been no Euros or WC. I think its our training methods or we buy weak players.

On your other point we have known for years that Wenger can do very little right.

tayto lover

Godge wrote: »

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal-injury-news-arsene-wenger-admits-to-pushing-aaron-ramsey-after-latest-hamstring-injury-a3320256.html

"I pushed Ramsey in and he got injured. It’s a very difficult situation to sort out because the players come back late because of the Euros and, on top of that, you play them and they get injured. If you don’t play them you miss them."


http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/fixtures-results/match-report/

Fonte was left on the bench by Southampton.

Kante played for Chelsea, but he was dropped halfway though the Euros by France.

Kane looked out of sorts for Spurs, could have done with more time off to clear his head.

Here's one for you, at the end of September, come back and name a player who went to the end of the Euros and played every game at the start of the season in England for their club. I doubt if there will be one.

Absolutely no fact in that post at all that any of those decisions were due to the Euros. Players back with their clubs all over Europe and S. America.

greendom

tayto lover wrote: »

My God we all recognise the fact of the injuries but these have happened even when there has been no Euros or WC. I think its our training methods or we buy weak players.

On your other point we have known for years that Wenger can do very little right.

It's becoming well recognised that fatigue is a major factor in causing or worsening injuries.

If players are carrying fatigue into the new season it's just a matter of when they get injured. I 100% support him in his attempt to avoid that. Just a shame he couldn't do it with Ramsey too.

Godge

tayto lover wrote: »

Absolutely no fact in that post at all that any of those decisions were due to the Euros. Players back with their clubs all over Europe and S. America.

It can't be proven one way or the other, all I can do is give examples of how and where the Euros have affected players.
.

Quazzie

greendom wrote: »

it is absolutely clear that Wenger can do absolutely nothing right at the moment.

Or nothing wrong in some people's eyes

greendom

Quazzie wrote: »

Or nothing wrong in some people's eyes

Both groups equally deluded!

GeorgeBailey

tayto lover wrote: »

Can't get my head around this extra time off lark at all. Load of bull.

Really? This is the first time you've mentioned it.

Ken Shamrock

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

Really? This is the first time you've mentioned it.

What do you ever add to a discussion or this thread in general? I don't even know your name and you're calling out a regular who's clearly frustrated?

greendom

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

What do you ever add to a discussion or this thread in general? I don't even know your name and you're calling out a regular who's clearly frustrated?

George had posted a fair amount in the past. He's as entitled to his opinion as anyone else, regardless.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

George had posted a fair amount in the past. He's as entitled to his opinion as anyone else, regardless.

Fair play to him, he says nothing nowadays apart from sarcastic little digs apparently.

gosplan

I have no issue with resting players of our medical team says they need resting. Going against that is basically nuts given our recent history with injuries.

And on THIS matter I couldn't give a monkey's about what other clubs do. Wenger has a specific way of conditioning the players, it's fair to say this results in lots of fatigue based muscle type injuries.

Fine to say Wenger out, let's start training like normal and we can return players like everyone else.

But to want to go against something that's specifically been put in place to prevent the type of injury crisis we have experienced in the past would be crazy.

emergingstar

The part of the Wenger debate that I hate is that there is a line in the sand

No matter what he does people will have a go

On the other side he can fûck up and people will back him

I think If people stopped taking sides the debate in here would be better

gosplan

emergingstar wrote: »

The part of the Wenger debate that I hate is that there is a line in the sand

No matter what he does people will have a go

On the other side he can fûck up and people will back him

I think If people stopped taking sides the debate in here would be better

Very true. too many people on the attack.

Soups123

gosplan wrote: »

Very true. too many people on the attack.

And yet as a club we have no attack how ironic

Quazzie

gosplan wrote: »

Very true. too many people on the attack.

No it's not. There are too many people on the defensive







:pac:

gosplan

This is all Wenger's fault though.

Morale around the club at an all-time low.

greendom

greendom wrote: »

It's becoming well recognised that fatigue is a major factor in causing or worsening injuries.

If players are carrying fatigue into the new season it's just a matter of when they get injured. I 100% support him in his attempt to avoid that. Just a shame he couldn't do it with Ramsey too.

Sorry but if Wenger chooses to condition players in a way that leads to the injury crises that we've had over the years and the only way apparently around it is to give them extra time off that no other club seems necessary then he's doing it wrong. Simple as that.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry but if Wenger chooses to condition players in a way that leads to the injury crises that we've had over the years and the only way apparently around it is to give them extra time off that no other club seems necessary then he's doing it wrong. Simple as that.

And if all the other Premier League clubs jumped off a cliff, should Arsenal jump too?

Seriously though, he bought in fitness professionals that are (supposedly) the best in the business. If they are the main ones that have a say in this, then I think it's fair enough.

Basil3

Basil3 wrote: »

And if all the other Premier League clubs jumped off a cliff, should Arsenal jump too?

If jumping off a cliff was the demonstrably better option then yes.

Seriously though, he bought in fitness professionals that are (supposedly) the best in the business. If they are the main ones that have a say in this, then I think it's fair enough.

How long til the results come to fruition? We've been hearing about this new medical team for a while and for what?

gosplan

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry but if Wenger chooses to condition players in a way that leads to the injury crises that we've had over the years and the only way apparently around it is to give them extra time off that no other club seems necessary then he's doing it wrong. Simple as that.

Granted. And that seems a reasonable argument.

My point is that we're built for the Wenger approach. Change manager by all means and then we won't have the same issues perhaps. But while Wenger is here going against the medical recommendations is nuts.

gosplan

Deleted User wrote: »

If jumping off a cliff was the demonstrably better option then yes.


How long til the results come to fruition? We've been hearing about this new medical team for a while and for what?

Till we start doping like all the others.

Pudders

If you were to pick the top sides and asked independent fans which of them could take an absolute beating, Arsenal would be picked every time. Since the 8-2 how many times have we been trashed and how many times have our rivals.

Wenger's ineptness in the transfer market is fine if you didn't have his tactical ineptness.

And what the hell does Bould do?

No one is ever comfortable at Arsenal until we are 3 goals up as everyone in the crowd knows how mentally weak and fragile that team is. Except Wenger. His interview after every loss talks about mental strength to be shown after it. How about showing it on the day. The players heads absolutely collapsed on Sunday after the 2nd Liverpool goal.

We lose at Leicester and top 4 becomes a huge struggle. And that will lead to Ozil and Sanchez's likely exit and Wenger and the board will use the excuse of not being in top 4 to struggle in the transfer market.

I'd have preferred to be back in Highbury knowing our faith than having a lie spun for 10 years that it would be alright once the debt was paid off.

gosplan

gosplan wrote: »

Granted. And that seems a reasonable argument.

My point is that we're built for the Wenger approach. Change manager by all means and then we won't have the same issues perhaps. But while Wenger is here going against the medical recommendations is nuts.

Built for **** all.

gosplan wrote: »

Till we start doping like all the others.

Oh aye, the others have been cheating the whole time. Dozens of managers down the years, all those medical staff, hundreds of players and support staff. Except us.

GeorgeBailey

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Fair play to him, he says nothing nowadays apart from sarcastic little digs apparently.

I say very little these days because there's very little new to add. We have been having roughly the same season over and over for the last number of years (the order in which things happen can change but what happens doesn't):
- Injury crisis
- A little period of hope that this team can achieve something
- Exit champions league at first knock-out stage
- All hope is lost
- "I've had it with this team!"
- If Arsene would only buy the 1/2 players we need
- Yay, the day has been saved and Arsenal have scraped fourth/finished ahead of Spurs.
- We'll give you another summer to get things right Arsene but this is the last time

I could find new and interesting ways at repeating and getting frustrated at those things over and over but I don't see the point.

And fwiw I think Arsene should go but also would love to see him succeed!!

gosplan

Deleted User wrote: »

Built for **** all.


Oh aye, the others have been cheating the whole time. Dozens of managers down the years, all those medical staff, hundreds of players and support staff. Except us.

Yeah, nuts, isn't it?

Obviously not everyone is doping but if you think it's not rife in a sport where results can literally mean millions and tens of millions of pounds, you're kidding yourself.

It has nothing to do with us really though.

Ken Shamrock

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

I say very little these days because there's very little new to add. We have been having roughly the same season over and over for the last number of years (the order in which things happen can change but what happens doesn't):
- Injury crisis
- A little period of hope that this team can achieve something
- Exit champions league at first knock-out stage
- All hope is lost
- "I've had it with this team!"
- If Arsene would only buy the 1/2 players we need
- Yay, the day has been saved and Arsenal have scraped fourth/finished ahead of Spurs.
- We'll give you another summer to get things right Arsene but this is the last time

I could find new and interesting ways at repeating and getting frustrated at those things over and over but I don't see the point.

And fwiw I think Arsene should go but also would love to see him succeed!!

It shouldn't be a surprise then to see the same people talking about the same things, it's representative of our club, same sh1t different day. I respect your control to stay away from posting though.

tayto lover

Just a question for both sides in this Wenger debate.

What do you think -
(A) Are we improving under Wenger?


or


(B) Are we getting worse?


Just a simple A or B.



My answer is ...... B.

gosplan

tayto lover wrote: »

Just a question for both sides in this Wenger debate.

What do you think -
(A) Are we improving under Wenger?


or


(B) Are we getting worse?


Just a simple A or B.



My answer is ...... B.

A very clear C - we're exactly the same.

I realised the other day that C.Ronaldo is 31. Started playing for Man U in 2004 I think. We've been exactly the same for his entire career.

Pudders

B by a significant margin.