Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016

mansize

JustTheOne wrote: »

The excitement I usually start feeling coming towards a Saturday game especially at 530 just isn't there.

Thanks arsenal:(

We don't do great in those Sat night matches

wawaman

mansize wrote: »

We don't do great in those Sat night matches

We don't do great in many matches lately

Wonda-Boy

B, we are getting worse. And everyone around us even very ordinary teams in the past are getting significantly better!!!!!

So thats double trouble for us.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

Just a question for both sides in this Wenger debate.

What do you think -
(A) Are we improving under Wenger?


or


(B) Are we getting worse?


Just a simple A or B.



My answer is ...... B.

Both 'sides'?

What time frame are you talking? Since Wenger started? Since the end of last season?

gosplan

Basil3 wrote: »

Both 'sides'?

That's a good point.

I'd like to think I belong to neither 'side'.

Some things are good, some things are not good.

But it's getting like a Utd/Liverpool match thread in here. If you want to say something genuine, you're just attacked by those who perceive you on the other side.

gosplan

gosplan wrote: »

That's a good point.

I'd like to think I belong to neither 'side'.

Some things are good, some things are not good.

But it's getting like a Utd/Liverpool match thread in here. If you want to say something genuine, you're just attacked by those who perceive you on the other side.

Yup. It's the biggest problem I have around here. I try to understand why Arsene or Arsenal do (or don't do) certain things.

I don't understand why we haven't signed a CB, or a decent striker. I don't moan about it, though.... So I'm clearly Pro Wenger.

brianregan09

I like Wenger would I like someone else ....Totally but I'm in realist I know its not going to happen would have loved Klopp at the club its never going to happen now he's up the road

Do I think we'll sign two players before the window is out damn right I do , I do think we'll carry on our hoodoo over Leicester too and Gnabry will be the surprise package of the season

Gringo180

Loads of activity on here since last night. Please say we signed somebody

Skylinehead

tayto lover wrote: »

Just a question for both sides in this Wenger debate.

What do you think -
(A) Are we improving under Wenger?


or


(B) Are we getting worse?


Just a simple A or B.



My answer is ...... B.

Neither really. We're obviously not as good as 03/04, nowhere near it. On the other hand, it's a miles better team and squad than around 2010, with Denilson, Squillachi, Senderos etc.

gosplan

I get why we haven't signed a striker.

CB though, not at all. Insane that we didn't get one, if he was being truthful about needing one, which he said even before Gabriel got injured.

Would I like Wenger to go?? I'd really like some change but the list of managers I'd like to take over is fairly short.

Should have gone for Klopp and Guardolia in a big way.

All that said, if we don't make a couple of signings in the next few weeks then I'll view Wenger's management as essentially pointless from a fan's point of view. I appreciate in some ways the stability he brings hit what good is that to a fan? We're into sport for the escapism and thrill. When you know what's coming next and know that it's distinctly underwhelming, then sport becomes a chore. And it's not that we lose, I can handle losing...but even the victories become hollow because they're devoid of hope.

The last time I remember being truly excited by a win was the Arshavin goal against Barca. Not because we beat Barca but because I still believed that we could go all the way.

Overall I'd love for Wenger to have a good season before he goes. I'm not sure he can motivate the team anymore though. He can close 2 deals and we'll have a squad as talented as anyone but I fear he won't be able to get the best from them. Would love to be proven wrong though.

gosplan

gosplan wrote: »

Yeah, nuts, isn't it?

Obviously not everyone is doping but if you think it's not rife in a sport where results can literally mean millions and tens of millions of pounds, you're kidding yourself.

It has nothing to do with us really though.

I don't doubt for a second there's loads of it but if there is I doubt we're occupying some moral high ground compared to every single other club.

emmetlego

I have no basis in this other than the lack of injuries that the last 3 title winning teams had. Significant lack of injuries! It screams doping to me.

And are we holier than thou? Well, our injury record would say yes, but also Webger is a principals man, I would doubt it to be honest.

But really, that has nothing to do with our lack of success, as we've been just **** for years. Well, not ****, but far from great. The longer this window is open and we don't sign a CB, Wenger is inviting crowd revolt. It may just change the mentality of the board if the crowd lose the plot.

I want a new striker, and a quality one too, so I don't mind waiting, as long as the right one comes. We need 25 goals a season more to have a chance at the BPL this year.

Hey, we can all dream, can't we?

Godge

gosplan wrote: »

That's a good point.

I'd like to think I belong to neither 'side'.

Some things are good, some things are not good.

But it's getting like a Utd/Liverpool match thread in here. If you want to say something genuine, you're just attacked by those who perceive you on the other side.

I am with you on this.

The team is now better than 1 September 2015, but is it better enough? Another signing or two and the answer might be yes. Then again, another bad injury or someone leaving and the answer is definitely no.

Would it be better under someone else, maybe yes, maybe no.

That is the problem, there is no easy answer.

emergingstar

My big Critisim of Wenger in this window is that a CB should have been signed already

I will pass judgement on the rest after the window closes

AdamD

Is there even a Wenger side now? Reads more like people who think things are extremely bad and others who think it's not great but not far off being okay.

wonga77

gosplan wrote: »

All that said, if we don't make a couple of signings in the next few weeks then I'll view Wenger's management as essentially pointless from a fan's point of view. I appreciate in some ways the stability he brings hit what good is that to a fan? We're into sport for the escapism and thrill. When you know what's coming next and know that it's distinctly underwhelming, then sport becomes a chore. And it's not that we lose, I can handle losing...but even the victories become hollow because they're devoid of hope.

The last time I remember being truly excited by a win was the Arshavin goal against Barca. Not because we beat Barca but because I still believed that we could go all the way.

Overall I'd love for Wenger to have a good season before he goes. I'm not sure he can motivate the team anymore though. He can close 2 deals and we'll have a squad as talented as anyone but I fear he won't be able to get the best from them. Would love to be proven wrong though.

Perfectly put, there are so many fans who were at this point 3-5 years ago.
There are many only getting around to this way of thinking in this window,
There are also some who have not/will not ever arrive at this stage regardless of what the boss does.

For me it was about 3 years ago that I came to the conclusion that Wenger no longer had the ability to manage at the top level, or at least compete with those top managers simply because the spark was gone. Id also love to be proven wrong but the writing has been on the wall for a long time

mansize

emergingstar wrote: »

My big Critisim of Wenger in this window is that a CB should have been signed already

I will pass judgement on the rest after the window closes

We did. Holding

Ol' Donie

Gringo180 wrote: »

Loads of activity on here since last night. Please say we signed somebody

Simple choice, do you think it's

A) We signed somebody

The usual bitching

Ol' Donie

AdamD wrote: »

Is there even a Wenger side now? Reads more like people who think things are extremely bad and others who think it's not great but not far off being okay.

Yep. Me. As usual.

We've a few obvious weaknesses, but many, many strengths.

mansize

mansize wrote: »

We did. Holding

Ah come on now. Holding is a kid. A very good prospect but no way on earth should the burden fall on him to guard the back doors with another relative kid Chambers. Holding is one for the future but throwing him in a inexperienced defence is unfair on the lads .These lads need experienced help beside them.

ronjo

Godge wrote: »

Since 1 September 2015, we have added Elneny, Xhaka and Holding. Bellerin has cemented his place in the team rather than the squad, and Iwobi has come in too. From the Olympics it looks like Gnabry will be able to contribute this season if Wenger wants him, Reine-Adelaide has been promoted from the Academy and Zelalem may not go out on loan. Martinez is in the squad as third goalkeeper as opposed to Macey who was green then, though a lot better now.

As against that, we have lost Flamini, Arteta and Rosicky.

Some incremental improvements, some significant improvements, but improvement overall. Whether that improvement is enough compared to others is a different question.

I think Utd. and City appear to have improved by much more, Chelsea not so sure, and Liverpool and Spurs to date don't appear to have gained much. Both the latter two will charge out the gate at the start of the season but will run out of steam sometime after Christmas. Leicester had a freak season, but an Everton, Southampton or West Ham could have one of those this year.

Only thing is, Utd. and City may have done their spending already. Chelsea and ourselves will probably go back into the transfer market so there is room for some of this to change.

There are always two times to pass judgement, on 1 September when the transfer window closes, on the potential of the squad, at the end of the season on whether that potential delivered. Last season was a good outcome on paper - finishing second - the real disappointment was that the squad and team were good enough to win the thing, and didn't.

Well done on totally ignoring the fact that I was talking about since May.

mansize

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/tottenham-news-mauricio-pochettino-hugo-lloris-injury-a7198306.html

Someone who knows what he's talking about

greendom

mansize wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/tottenham-news-mauricio-pochettino-hugo-lloris-injury-a7198306.html

Someone who knows what he's talking about

I wonder when was the last time a Spurs manager talked sense !

mansize

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Yep. Me. As usual.

We've a few obvious weaknesses, but many, many strengths.

me too. agreed.

mansize

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah come on now. Holding is a kid. A very good prospect but no way on earth should the burden fall on him to guard the back doors with another relative kid Chambers. Holding is one for the future but throwing him in a inexperienced defence is unfair on the lads .These lads need experienced help beside them.

we did sig a CB though... how many CB's do we need?

wonga77

at least one cb who is ready for the top level. Holding is a 19 year old thrown in at the deep end, I would have thought that was obvious to everyone no?

L'prof

mansize wrote: »

we did sig a CB though... how many CB's do we need?

We need another senior CB because of all the injuries. If Gabriel, Mertesacker and Koscielny were all fit and available there would be no concerns with them only signing Holding, but they aren't!

Pudders

mansize wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah come on now. Holding is a kid. A very good prospect but no way on earth should the burden fall on him to guard the back doors with another relative kid Chambers. Holding is one for the future but throwing him in a inexperienced defence is unfair on the lads .These lads need experienced help beside them.

we did sig a CB though... how many CB's do we need?

CB is a place where you need experience. Holding and Chambers don't have enough experience.
Mert is finished and Gabriel is not good enough.

Kos is 1st choice We need a 1st choice partner with him with Chambers and Holding for the future.

Even Wenger admits we need an experienced CB to be brought in.

If you really think we don't need to sign a CB, you are unfortunately deluded.

We already have lost 3 points, 1 point down on last year (but IMO we needed a new CB anyway).

Godge

ronjo wrote: »

Well done on totally ignoring the fact that I was talking about since May.

But that's the point I am making, so much of what we say and conclude depends on the lens through which we are looking.

Comparing to the team of Denilson and Senderos, we are significantly better, compared to the team of Henry, Pires and Campbell, we are not. For me, it is how we look at 1 September compared to the previous one is the key issue for transfer policy and squad-building purposes.

Quazzie

Godge wrote: »

But that's the point I am making, so much of what we say and conclude depends on the lens through which we are looking.

Comparing to the team of Denilson and Senderos, we are significantly better, compared to the team of Henry, Pires and Campbell, we are not. For me, it is how we look at 1 September compared to the previous one is the key issue for transfer policy and squad-building purposes.

The season is well underway for most clubs by September 1st. The squad should be sorted before the start of the season.

gosplan

With Mert out long term, we are a Koscielny injury away from an absolute crisis in that positon. You can't leave yourself open to that.

Regardless of who's on the books, right now we have 3 CBs. 2 are not good enough.

Knowing Arsenal, I would bet good money that we'll pick up another injury in that area before Gabriel is back.

Godge

Quazzie wrote: »

The season is well underway for most clubs by September 1st. The squad should be sorted before the start of the season.

That is a valid opinion, another valid opinion is that the transfer window should close before the season starts to ensure that happens. If the transfer window ran from 1 June to 31 July instead of 1 July to 31 August, this wouldn't be an issue.

Ken Shamrock

Godge wrote: »

That is a valid opinion, another valid opinion is that the transfer window should close before the season starts to ensure that happens. If the transfer window ran from 1 June to 31 July instead of 1 July to 31 August, this wouldn't be an issue.

But it doesn't and it never has, a manager who has been doing this in the PL for 20 years should be able to sign players before the 1st of August regardless.

The timeframe he'd have to do it in would still be the same, it's not really valid in that sense, putting the blame elsewhere.

Godge

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

But it doesn't and it never has, a manager who has been doing this in the PL for 20 years should be able to sign players before the 1st of August regardless.

The timeframe he'd have to do it in would still be the same, it's not really valid in that sense, putting the blame elsewhere.

We would never have signed Ozil before 1st of August. That means we would have signed a lesser player that was available if we had operated to the timetable of 1 August.

Ken Shamrock

Godge wrote: »

We would never have signed Ozil before 1st of August. That means we would have signed a lesser player that was available if we had operated to the timetable of 1 August.

Well yeah we would except we would have signed him on the 1 July instead. The window wouldn't just change for Arsenal

gosplan

Godge wrote: »

We would never have signed Ozil before 1st of August. That means we would have signed a lesser player that was available if we had operated to the timetable of 1 August.

I couldn't be arsed doing it now but I'm pretty sure if you looked at all the signings we've made in between the start or the season and deadline day, it wouldn't be pretty reading.

Taking Ozil alone as an example is unfair because it ignores Santos and Park Chu Yung.

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush isn't just a saying. Wenger is waiting for some star quality, fair enough, but we've found in the past that if you HAVE to sign someone on deadline day, you're taking a huge risk.

greendom

Godge wrote: »

We would never have signed Ozil before 1st of August. That means we would have signed a lesser player that was available if we had operated to the timetable of 1 August.

Exactly, the system is wrong. There is a lot of brinkmanship that goes on in the transfer window which means the vast majority of deals are completed in the last few days before it closes.

The choices left to Arsenal if they were to adhere to the 1st August rule would be to a) pay over the odds - which in turn would reduce the transfer kitty for other players or b) as you say go for a lesser player.

Pudders

Pudders wrote: »

We lose at Leicester and top 4 becomes a huge struggle. And that will lead to Ozil and Sanchez's likely exit and Wenger and the board will use the excuse of not being in top 4 to struggle in the transfer market.

What a riculously hysterical load of hyperbole.

IF we were in 5th in March, behind 4th by 6 points, do you honestly think most Gooners would think we weren't going to catch up? Load of balls.

It's a tough start to the season, if we lose on Saturday, I for one won't be writing the season off anyway. Everyone drops more than 6 points over the course of a season.

Jesus, this is a perfect example of the tear your hair out negativity that makes me post less and less round here.

wonga77

Yeah but the point Ken is making that it would be the same for everyone, Not sure why you say "the choices left to Arsenal" as it would be the same for every other club?

greendom

wonga77 wrote: »

Yeah but the point Ken is making that it would be the same for everyone, Not sure why you say "the choices left to Arsenal" as it would be the same for every other club?

I think that Godge was arguing that if the club were to decide to have the squad fully assembled on 1st August, despite the fact that the window would still be open for another month.

wonga77

gosplan wrote: »

I couldn't be arsed doing it now but I'm pretty sure if you looked at all the signings we've made in between the start or the season and deadline day, it wouldn't be pretty reading.

Taking Ozil alone as an example is unfair because it ignores Santos and Park Chu Yung.

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush isn't just a saying. Wenger is waiting for some star quality, fair enough, but we've found in the past that if you HAVE to sign someone on deadline day, you're taking a huge risk.

Exactly, there is always the chance that your target is not attainable on the last day and your left with nothing (a bit like the window with Higuian and Suarez) or your in a situation where you have an injured player like Kallstrom and no time to get anyone better. Clubs that resort to panic buys in the last few hours rarely work out. Not saying thats what we will do but it isnt a good way to go. In a perfect world our transfers would work nice and smooth like the Xhaka one but thats something that rarely happens (for us anyway)

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

I think that Godge was arguing that if the club were to decide to have the squad fully assembled on 1st August, despite the fact that the window would still be open for another month.

You've still lost me

Bobby Baccala

Gnabry's performance in the Olympics has me excited about seeing him play for us this season, I'm glad he won't be getting sent out on loan again, saw basically no football at West Brom.

Surely there's a clause in loan deals where the player has to make a certain amount of appearances/starts? To stop the likes of what happened with Gnabry?

gosplan

wonga77 wrote: »

Exactly, there is always the chance that your target is not attainable on the last day and your left with nothing (a bit like the window with Higuian and Suarez) or your in a situation where you have an injured player like Kallstrom and no time to get anyone better. Clubs that resort to panic buys in the last few hours rarely work out. Not saying thats what we will do but it isnt a good way to go. In a perfect world our transfers would work nice and smooth like the Xhaka one but thats something that rarely happens (for us anyway)

The only reason I gave optimism is that Wenger bid for Lacazette. There's a player he actually wants.

greendom

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

You've still lost me

Did you not argue that the club should by now have learned to deal with the fact that the window closes after the season starts? That it should have all its players having had a full pre-season and ready to go come the first day?

Godge was highlighting the problems/impraticalities with such a policy.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

Did you not argue that the club should by now have learned to deal with the fact that the window closes after the season starts? That it should have all its players having had a full pre-season and ready to go come the first day?

Godge was highlighting the problems/impraticalities with such a policy.

I didn't argue anything I just made the point that if it was changed it would be changed for everyone and that it hasn't changed it's been the same forever yet we still aren't prepared for it correctly.

I don't know what point is trying to be made

greendom

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

But it doesn't and it never has, a manager who has been doing this in the PL for 20 years should be able to sign players before the 1st of August regardless.

The timeframe he'd have to do it in would still be the same, it's not really valid in that sense, putting the blame elsewhere.

Responding to this

gosplan

Reports saying we've bid £26/€30 for Mustafi.

Ol' Donie

gosplan wrote: »

Reports saying we've bid £26/€30 for Mustafi.

Wow. Good to see we bid more than a tenner.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

Responding to this

With what though? This is what i'm trying to figure out