Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016

wonga77

gosplan wrote: »

The only reason I gave optimism is that Wenger bid for Lacazette. There's a player he actually wants.

Yep, also he's a player that scored a hat trick in his first league game for Lyon, further adding to the point that waiting in the market cant bite you in the ass

Quazzie

Godge wrote: »

That is a valid opinion, another valid opinion is that the transfer window should close before the season starts to ensure that happens. If the transfer window ran from 1 June to 31 July instead of 1 July to 31 August, this wouldn't be an issue.

But it's not though, and that's the point being made. Wenger has been around long enough to know what deadlines he should work to.

greendom

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

With what though? This is what i'm trying to figure out

Sorry. I give up at this point. We're obviously talking at cross purposes here.

greendom

Quazzie wrote: »

But it's not though, and that's the point being made. Wenger has been around long enough to know what deadlines he should work to.

But the way the transfer window works means paying over the odds or getting an inferior player.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

Sorry. I give up at this point. We're obviously talking at cross purposes here.

You cold just explain your point though then I'll know what you're trying to say?

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

But the way the transfer window works means paying over the odds or getting an inferior player.

That's not how the window works that's how Wenger works in the window

greendom

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

That's not how the window works that's how Wenger works in the window

Vast majority of deals are done in the last few days.

Not Wenger's doing

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

Vast majority of deals are done in the last few days.

Not Wenger's doing

That's not what you said, you said you have to pay over the odds or sign an inferior player, that's simply not true.

Quazzie

greendom wrote: »

Vast majority of deals are done in the last few days.

Not Wenger's doing

Not trying to be pedantic here, but the last few days probably have a higher transfer:day ratio than other days earlier in the window, but that doesn't equate to the "vast majority of deals" being completed in the last few days.

greendom

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

That's not what you said, you said you have to pay over the odds or sign an inferior player, that's simply not true.

If you want to get your squad complete s month before the end of the window it is absolutely true.

Godge

Quazzie wrote: »

But it's not though, and that's the point being made. Wenger has been around long enough to know what deadlines he should work to.

And if you go through every team in the Premiership over the last five years, you will find that they all signed players after the season started.

Why should Arsenal adhere to a made-up rule that we should sign before the season starts? The rule is you can sign up to 1 September ( a rule I disagree with) so we should use that rule as best we can. If that means a lower price on 30 August instead of 30 July, so be it.

greendom

Quazzie wrote: »

Not trying to be pedantic here, but the last few days probably have a higher transfer:day ratio than other days earlier in the window, but that doesn't equate to the "vast majority of deals" being completed in the last few days.

I suppose it's a bit like buying a house. Sometimes a chain is involved and these take longer to compete. Other times they don't and the deal an be done quickly. A lot of out deals involve chains. And that generally means waiting till the end of the window.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

If you want to get your squad complete s month before the end of the window it is absolutely true.

No it's not, identify your target (s) early, get the deals done once the window opens (some do them before the window even starts) and you're done. Not every team need 3 WC players to be happy with their squad.

Even still, we never get what we NEED in the window regardless of when we purchase.

greendom

wonga77 wrote: »

Yep, also he's a player that scored a hat trick in his first league game for Lyon, further adding to the point that waiting in the market cant bite you in the ass

Aulas will always bite you in the ass when you try to buy one of his players.

Quazzie

Godge wrote: »

And if you go through every team in the Premiership over the last five years, you will find that they all signed players after the season started.

Why should Arsenal adhere to a made-up rule that we should sign before the season starts? The rule is you can sign up to 1 September ( a rule I disagree with) so we should use that rule as best we can. If that means a lower price on 30 August instead of 30 July, so be it.

Wenger consistently talks about value. There might be more monetary value in signing a player late, but you're losing out on the bulk of half a season by doing so, which proves that Wenger worries more about financial issues than he does about footballing issues.

greendom

Quazzie wrote: »

Wenger consistently talks about value. There might be more monetary value in signing a player late, but you're losing out on the bulk of half a season by doing so, which proves that Wenger worries more about financial issues than he does about footballing issues.

He lives in the real World. A World the likes of Mourinho and Guardiola can avoid.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

He lives in the real World. A World the likes of Mourinho and Guardiola can avoid.

You're so biased and loyal to Wenger it's ridiculous man

greendom

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

You're so biased and loyal to Wenger it's ridiculous man

As long as he remains Arsenal manager that will remain. I do try to argue with reason though not blind faith. He does cock up but not as much as most in here seem to think.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

As long as he remains Arsenal manager that will remain. I do try to argue with reason though not blind faith. He does cock up but not as much as most in here seem to think.

At least you're aware of it.

Godge

Quazzie wrote: »

Wenger consistently talks about value. There might be more monetary value in signing a player late, but you're losing out on the bulk of half a season by doing so, which proves that Wenger worries more about financial issues than he does about footballing issues.

Anthony Martial was signed by Utd. on deadline day last year.

Kevin de Bruyne was signed on 30 August by City.

Pedro was signed by Chelsea on 20 August, Otamendi by City on the same day.

Putting a deadline of 1 August on Arsenal is putting an artificial deadline that doesn't apply to other clubs.

Ken Shamrock

Godge wrote: »

Anthony Martial was signed by Utd. on deadline day last year.

Kevin de Bruyne was signed on 30 August by City.

Pedro was signed by Chelsea on 20 August, Otamendi by City on the same day.

Putting a deadline of 1 August on Arsenal is putting an artificial deadline that doesn't apply to other clubs.

I understand your point now! It's not an artificial deadline though, we have urgent matters to attend to (Like starting 2 youngsters at the back and having no striker in the squad on opening day).

City would have survived without De Bruyne, no rush same goes for Pedro and the rest. We have urgent issues and they are not being resolved in the optimal amount of time. That's what people are unhappy about.

wonga77

Godge wrote: »

And if you go through every team in the Premiership over the last five years, you will find that they all signed players after the season started.

Why should Arsenal adhere to a made-up rule that we should sign before the season starts? The rule is you can sign up to 1 September ( a rule I disagree with) so we should use that rule as best we can. If that means a lower price on 30 August instead of 30 July, so be it.

Yeah but is it really worth holding out in the hope of saving a few million? In that time the player in question could have contributed to extra points gained which could be the difference between winning or losing the league at the end of the season which would be of a far greater financial reward. All hypothetical I know but every point counts

mansize

mansize wrote: »

we did sig a CB though... how many CB's do we need?

Mert is near the end, Koc turns 30 and big question marks about Gabriel remain. I think he needs more game time probably. Holding and Chambers not experienced enough. We also let off Issac Hayden who had little experience.

So there is need for a top centre back at this club. Not a one in development, and not a one near the end, but a proven, experienced top centre back at the right age

greendom

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

I understand your point now! It's not an artificial deadline though, we have urgent matters to attend to (Like starting 2 youngsters at the back and having no striker in the squad on opening day).

City would have survived without De Bruyne, no rush same goes for Pedro and the rest. We have urgent issues and they are not being resolved in the optimal amount of time. That's what people are unhappy about.

even if that means purchasing an inferior player or spending more on a player and reducing the amount available for other purchases ?

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

even if that means purchasing an inferior player or spending more on a player and reducing the amount available for other purchases ?

Eh no, what it means is you identify a few top players, bid a reasonable amount for a top player, if they want too much money you bid for someone else and so on, if you wind up exhausting your list of players because you wouldn't pay the asking price then you can either pay more than you were willing too or settle for an inferior player.

What makes a manager good in the transfer market is identifying a top player and purchasing him for a reasonable amount, Wenger does not do that. He buys inferior players on a consistent basis and when we do get our Ozil it's last minute conditional crap.

Just because Wenger can't sign the players we need doesn't mean the market is crazy or harsh, it means Wenger is not up to the task, as we've seen for about a decade now. We're always short going into the new season, you can blame that on the market, the stadium, the oil barons whatever you want but we all know it's Wenger.

greendom

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Eh no, what it means is you identify a few top players, bid a reasonable amount for a top player, if they want too much money you bid for someone else and so on, if you wind up exhausting your list of players because you wouldn't pay the asking price then you can either pay more than you were willing too or settle for an inferior player.

What makes a manager good in the transfer market is identifying a top player and purchasing him for a reasonable amount, Wenger does not do that. He buys inferior players on a consistent basis and when we do get our Ozil it's last minute conditional crap.

Just because Wenger can't sign the players we need doesn't mean the market is crazy or harsh, it means Wenger is not up to the task, as we've seen for about a decade now. We're always short going into the new season, you can blame that on the market, the stadium, the oil barons whatever you want but we all know it's Wenger.

A decade is incredibly harsh. But if you need to ignore the facts to prove your point, that's your choice.

L'prof

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Eh no, what it means is you identify a few top players, bid a reasonable amount for a top player, if they want too much money you bid for someone else and so on, if you wind up exhausting your list of players because you wouldn't pay the asking price then you can either pay more than you were willing too or settle for an inferior player.

What makes a manager good in the transfer market is identifying a top player and purchasing him for a reasonable amount, Wenger does not do that. He buys inferior players on a consistent basis and when we do get our Ozil it's last minute conditional crap.

Just because Wenger can't sign the players we need doesn't mean the market is crazy or harsh, it means Wenger is not up to the task, as we've seen for about a decade now. We're always short going into the new season, you can blame that on the market, the stadium, the oil barons whatever you want but we all know it's Wenger.

I thought the Özil deal was completely dependent on Real signing Bale, no? If they didn't land Bale, they weren't selling Özil. How could he have been signed any quicker and how can that particular example be used as a stick to beat Wenger with?

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

A decade is incredibly harsh. But if you need to ignore the facts to prove your point, that's your choice.

It's not harsh, we still haven't replaced players from 2006 and he has been poor in the market since then, even before then. The only person ignoring facts is yourself, you will nonsensically argue Wengers side to the death, you've already admitted to being biased yourself.

L'prof wrote: »

I thought the Özil deal was completely dependent on Real signing Bale, no? If they didn't land Bale, they weren't selling Özil. How could he have been signed any quicker and how can that particular example be used as a stick to beat Wenger with?

That's exactly what i'm talking about, he doesn't go out and get what we need he relies on other factors and if they don't come together we get nothing, Ozil is a case of something working out but it was completely reliant on other factors, this was a window where we addressed our need for a CDM with Flamini and our need for a striker with Sanogo.

Quazzie

Godge wrote: »

Anthony Martial was signed by Utd. on deadline day last year.

Kevin de Bruyne was signed on 30 August by City.

Pedro was signed by Chelsea on 20 August, Otamendi by City on the same day.

Putting a deadline of 1 August on Arsenal is putting an artificial deadline that doesn't apply to other clubs.

All luxury players that are complimenting a squad rather than a player who is going to be a fundamental part of the squad which our striker should be.

Martial is the possible exception but i include him in that catergory because he was signed for an area that wasn't top priority for United at the time.

L'prof

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

That's exactly what i'm talking about, he doesn't go out and get what we need he relies on other factors and if they don't come together we get nothing, Ozil is a case of something working out but it was completely reliant on other factors, this was a window where we addressed our need for a CDM with Flamini and our need for a striker with Sanogo.

OK, I agree it could have fallen flat but in this case it didn't. If he had gone out and done business early in this case it would have certainly been a player of lesser quality. Look, we all find the process infuriating, I just don't see the logic in tearing it apart when it actually works out. Last season was a disaster. This season is slightly better, but if no more big signings are made then it's not a whole lot better at all. I'm frustrated but prepared to wait it out before calling it a disaster

Ken Shamrock

L'prof wrote: »

OK, I agree it could have fallen flat but in this case it didn't. If he had gone out and done business early in this case it would have certainly been a player of lesser quality. Look, we all find the process infuriating, I just don't see the logic in tearing it apart when it actually works out. Last season was a disaster. This season is slightly better, but if no more big signings are made then it's not a whole lot better at all. I'm frustrated but prepared to wait it out before calling it a disaster

I haven't called it a disaster I haven't said anything about this window yet as it's still open, i'm just addressing the fact that Wenger is poor in the market and ignores glaring holes and the only time we get big players are when there are multiple factors involved that we can't control, i'm not giving out about the Ozil deal I was delighted obviously but if that didn't happen then that window would be Sanogo and Flamini both for free and that's it, when you consider how desperately we needed a DM and CF that year it's still a poor window, Coq kind of saved the day.

Ken Shamrock

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

I haven't called it a disaster I haven't said anything about this window yet as it's still open, i'm just addressing the fact that Wenger is poor in the market and ignores glaring holes and the only time we get big players are when there are multiple factors involved that we can't control, i'm not giving out about the Ozil deal I was delighted obviously but if that didn't happen then that window would be Sanogo and Flamini both for free and that's it, when you consider how desperately we needed a DM and CF that year it's still a poor window, Coq kind of saved the day.

The Bale deal was always happening though. It was just a matter of when.

greendom

Quazzie wrote: »

All luxury players that are complimenting a squad rather than a player who is going to be a fundamental part of the squad which our striker should be.

Martial is the possible exception but i include him in that catergory because he was signed for an area that wasn't top priority for United at the time.

Martial was pretty much the mainstay of their attack last season and City fell away when De Bruyne got injured. otamendi, despite not hitting the EPL like a duck to water, was a very important member of their squad. Some luxuries!

gosplan

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

It's not harsh, we still haven't replaced players from 2006 and he has been poor in the market since then, even before then. The only person ignoring facts is yourself, you will nonsensically argue Wengers side to the death, you've already admitted to being biased yourself.



That's exactly what i'm talking about, he doesn't go out and get what we need he relies on other factors and if they don't come together we get nothing, Ozil is a case of something working out but it was completely reliant on other factors, this was a window where we addressed our need for a CDM with Flamini and our need for a striker with Sanogo.

In fairness Ken, then you're either saying the stadium move shouldn't have happened or Wenger should have been signing world class players without actually spending money.

You're ignoring much of the past in order to fit it into a current narrative.

https://www.facebook.com/ArsenalFCLovers/videos/777414515695145/

greendom

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

It's not harsh, we still haven't replaced players from 2006 and he has been poor in the market since then, even before then. The only person ignoring facts is yourself, you will nonsensically argue Wengers side to the death, you've already admitted to being biased yourself.


.

You obviously think I spout nonsense but I try to use reason with my arguments. The combination of stadium purchase and multi-billionaires buying opposition clubs has to be ignored for your arguments to make sense. Being forced for years to sell our best players to keep afloat while buying cheaper replacements doesn't count in your World.

I support Wenger, although that is becoming much harder as time goes on, but I will always defend him when I see poor arguments being used to attack him.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

You obviously think I spout nonsense but I try to use reason with my arguments. The combination of stadium purchase and multi-billionaires buying opposition clubs has to be ignored for your arguments to make sense. Being forced for years to sell our best players to keep afloat while buying cheaper replacements doesn't count in your World.

I support Wenger, although that is becoming much harder as time goes on, but I will always defend him when I see poor arguments being used to attack him.

I don't think you spout nonsense, you're normally level headed and put good posts together the only issue I have is that no matter what you defend Wenger and Arsenal and you seem deluded in certain aspects either that or you're just pulling the sheets over your eyes.

I'm not ignoring any of that, we've all discussed that to bits, I understand the situation and of course Wenger did a good job for many years but it's all in vain when you completely ignore holes in our team and continue to be tactically inept as a manager.

It's a business and Wenger is a business man, it's not working, we need change. You're happy to have him here and continue doing what we're doing that's fine.

gosplan

Basically what we're all saying is that Wenger's moments of brilliance in the transfer market are negated by his stubbornness to fix glaring issues with the squad and place faith instead on inadequate internal solutions.

Quazzie

For anyone here who reads the other teams threads, what is it they talk about all day when they don't have Wenger to argue over?

gosplan

Quazzie wrote: »

For anyone here who reads the other teams threads, what is it they talk about all day when they don't have Wenger to argue over?

Man Utd have Liverpool, Chelsea talk about how everyone hates them. We have Wenger.

tayto lover

gosplan wrote: »

I couldn't be arsed doing it now but I'm pretty sure if you looked at all the signings we've made in between the start or the season and deadline day, it wouldn't be pretty reading.

Taking Ozil alone as an example is unfair because it ignores Santos and Park Chu Yung.

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush isn't just a saying. Wenger is waiting for some star quality, fair enough, but we've found in the past that if you HAVE to sign someone on deadline day, you're taking a huge risk.

If only.
Someone likened him to the old guy in Tesco waiting for the vegetables and meat to be reduced in price at 5 pm on Sat evening.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

If only.
Someone likened him to the old guy in Tesco waiting for the vegetables and meat to be reduced in price at 5 pm on Sat evening.

Very rarely have I been disappointed with those bargains.

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

Mert is near the end, Koc turns 30 and big question marks about Gabriel remain. I think he needs more game time probably. Holding and Chambers not experienced enough. We also let off Issac Hayden who had little experience.

So there is need for a top centre back at this club. Not a one in development, and not a one near the end, but a proven, experienced top centre back at the right age[/QUOTE]

Exactly what i said before the window even opened. We need to stop buying experimental players or players for the future in this window and concentrate on getting the finished article especially as we probably need only two players to mount a challenge.

tayto lover

Basil3 wrote: »

Very rarely have I been disappointed with those bargains.

What? The shop ones or the likes of Sanogo?

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

What? The shop ones or the likes of Sanogo?

I thought you meant bargains that you have to wait for. Sanogo isn't one of them, he was a target we identified early and went for, all guns blazing.

tayto lover

Basil3 wrote: »

I thought you meant bargains that you have to wait for. Sanogo isn't one of them, he was a target we identified early and went for, all guns blazing.

.... and we got that wrong too.

Godge

Quazzie wrote: »

All luxury players that are complimenting a squad rather than a player who is going to be a fundamental part of the squad which our striker should be.

Martial is the possible exception but i include him in that catergory because he was signed for an area that wasn't top priority for United at the time.

take another year at random - 2013, the year we signed Ozil on deadline day.

Sakho signed for Liverpool on 2 September.
Lukaku signed for Everton on 2 September.
Fellaini signed for Utd. on 2 September
Demichelis signed for City on 1 September
Lamela signed for Spurs on 30 August.
Eriksen signed for Spurs on 30 August
Willian signed for Chelsea on 28 August


Now look at the number of games those players have played for their respective clubs and tell me whether they were fundamental or not.

I am not disagreeing with you that it is better to get your business done early, but I am saying that you don't know where you stand until the window closes.

tayto lover

Godge wrote: »

take another year at random - 2013, the year we signed Ozil on deadline day.

Sakho signed for Liverpool on 2 September.
Lukaku signed for Everton on 2 September.
Fellaini signed for Utd. on 2 September
Demichelis signed for City on 1 September
Lamela signed for Spurs on 30 August.
Eriksen signed for Spurs on 30 August
Willian signed for Chelsea on 28 August


Now look at the number of games those players have played for their respective clubs and tell me whether they were fundamental or not.

I am not disagreeing with you that it is better to get your business done early, but I am saying that you don't know where you stand until the window closes.

I would agree with you on that Godge BUT why does it have to be Wenger and the fans waiting on the last day EVERY feckin year? And a lot of the time in vain.

wandatowell

I think with the better than expected news on Welbeck, Arsene has decided we don't need a striker.

This is depressing stuff.

greendom

wandatowell wrote: »

I think with the better than expected news on Welbeck, Arsene has decided we don't need a striker.

This is depressing stuff.

Good news on Welbeck but I hope it doesn't deter him from getting another striker.