Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016

L'prof

speedboatchase wrote: »

It's true that Elneny has been excellent but... this is how it starts. Soon that line will be picked up by the Wenger Knows Best brigade (we finally plugged the whole left behind by Song, though not RVP, so good for us) and we'll start the same cycle of hope. Maybe since we seem to have plugged *this* hole and/or begin a run of form, it'll be different next season. Just need a few signings in the summer and we can *really* kick on.

Just stop this crap, all it does is antagonise already irate fans. For what it's worth I don't think anybody is defending Wenger these days and those that were are mostly ambivalent to him staying or going.

gosplan

speedboatchase wrote: »

We're mentioned in The Guardian's '10 Talking Points from the Weekend' today under the title 'Arsenal have finally found midfield solidity'.

It's true that Elneny has been excellent but... this is how it starts. Soon that line will be picked up by the Wenger Knows Best brigade (we finally plugged the whole left behind by Song, though not RVP, so good for us) and we'll start the same cycle of hope. Maybe since we seem to have plugged *this* hole and/or begin a run of form, it'll be different next season. Just need a few signings in the summer and we can *really* kick on.

I know I sound terribly jaded but I'm sick of it. Delighted for Elneny and Iwobi's recent progress but we're a Wenger team this season and we'll be a Wenger team next season. I really don't care about how we did against Watford because I can't forgive how we played against a makeshift Utd.

Wenger's problem is he took ages to figure out how to plug that hole.

Campbell, Iwobi and Elneny were nowhere near his plans at the start of the season.

That cost us the title. Zero outfield players signed.

vetinari

What's cost us the title is the same collapses in form we've suffered in any season where the pressure came on.
At this point, it's hard to say that it's due to the absence of a particular player or that we're one or two players away from being able to compete.

After beating Leicester, we were back in the title race.
Our next 3 league games were losses to Man Utd and Swansea and drawing away to Spurs.
Except for the Spurs game, it's hard to argue we didn't have a good enough squad of fit players to beat Utd and Swansea.

In other seasons, we've lost bigger players to injuries so you could argue that was the reason for a collapse.
We had Ozil, Sanchez, Giroud, Coquelin and Koscielny available for the 3 game stretch that saw us fall out of contention.

emmetlego

Frankly, I think the loss of form of our goal scorers was the biggest issue. We couldn't score to save our lives during that bad run, and the games we did score in, we should have racked up much bigger scores. Maybe I'm being too simplistic!

wandatowell

I think your spot on Emmet.

Ol' Donie

emmetlego wrote: »

Frankly, I think the loss of form of our goal scorers was the biggest issue. We couldn't score to save our lives during that bad run, and the games we did score in, we should have racked up much bigger scores. Maybe I'm being too simplistic!

That and defending like under 6s. Not even that many times, but a couple of crucial times.

gosplan

vetinari wrote: »

What's cost us the title is the same collapses in form we've suffered in any season where the pressure came on.
At this point, it's hard to say that it's due to the absence of a particular player or that we're one or two players away from being able to compete.

After beating Leicester, we were back in the title race.
Our next 3 league games were losses to Man Utd and Swansea and drawing away to Spurs.
Except for the Spurs game, it's hard to argue we didn't have a good enough squad of fit players to beat Utd and Swansea.

In other seasons, we've lost bigger players to injuries so you could argue that was the reason for a collapse.
We had Ozil, Sanchez, Giroud, Coquelin and Koscielny available for the 3 game stretch that saw us fall out of contention.

I think Wenger didn't have a clue what he could get from midfield once Caz was injured.

He had no footballing brain in the middle of the pitch. We were awful going forward and awful at protecting the defence. Then Alexis, the only guy that can create something from nothing was played and played as played and then injured.

A pragmatic manager would have looked at the start of the season and said that we're in big big trouble if either Caz or Sanchez is out. You could survive not having great strikers but those two did a job that no-one else could bar maybe flashes from Wilshire who can't be relied on.

JustTheOne

vetinari wrote: »

What's cost us the title is the same collapses in form we've suffered in any season where the pressure came on.
At this point, it's hard to say that it's due to the absence of a particular player or that we're one or two players away from being able to compete.

After beating Leicester, we were back in the title race.
Our next 3 league games were losses to Man Utd and Swansea and drawing away to Spurs.
Except for the Spurs game, it's hard to argue we didn't have a good enough squad of fit players to beat Utd and Swansea.

In other seasons, we've lost bigger players to injuries so you could argue that was the reason for a collapse.
We had Ozil, Sanchez, Giroud, Coquelin and Koscielny available for the 3 game stretch that saw us fall out of contention.

Those 3 games really is were it went wrong:(

greendom

Go to ITV4 for the youth cup semi second leg. Arsenal have just scored to make it 2 2 on aggregate. Lovely finish From Wilcox

Youth cup semi final on ITV4 now.

greendom

greendom wrote: »

Go to ITV4 for the youth cup semi second leg. Arsenal have just scored to make it 2 2 on aggregate. Lovely finish From Wilcox

Thanks. Flick it on and now they're down 2-4. Familiar feeling.

greendom

Playing all the football. Some great passing and 2 1 down...

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

Playing all the football. Some great passing and 2 1 down...

Black cat, black kitten :pac:

emmetlego

Willett is quit the footballer! Bielek looks special, or at least solid too.

emmetlego

That's a very good youths team there, first time seeing them. Really like the look of Bielek! He played centre half, but defo has more to his game. Big lad, strong fast and skilful...

Unlucky in the end and the sending off kind of crushed their hopes, but they never stopped trying.

emmetlego

Arseblog discusses the 'pressure off = we win' theory. Found his take interesting.
ARSEBLOG

vetinari

Fair point emmetlego about our strikers losing form.
Sanchez hasn't been near the same player since coming back from injury.
Giroud has gone off the boil.

But that in a way is what Arsenal do. We collapse when the pressure is on.
We've normally had bigger players get injured that could be used as an excuse.
This collapse is probably the worst of them all though.
For me it's a real blow to the idea that we can win another league title under Wenger.

salmocab

This may be a bit obvious but for me apart from the top striker we need I think what we are lacking is the tough spine of a team we used to have, by that I mean the 2 great CHs Adams Bould Keown Campbell Toure mould tough no nonsense players with a great attitude and generally speaking a decent head on their shoulders to keep rash moments to a minimum and the same from midfielders Viera Petit Gilberto again good players but with that bit extra fight and attitude.
Its not that we haven't had good enough players for the last decade, for me its more that they didn't have that little bit extra going on that makes real winners.

emmetlego

vetinari wrote: »

This collapse is probably the worst of them all though.
For me it's a real blow to the idea that we can win another league title under Wenger.

Agree with this 100%. I said it in November I think, if we don't win the league this year with Chelsea, City and Utd all below par, that Wenger should step down. I'm still of that opinion, even though I've been a staunch defender of him for years now.

Think is though, he won't step down, and that f***** board will not sack him. As long as Kronke is there, we'll win nothing I feel, so maybe keeping Wenger isn't such a problem. What I'd love to see, is Arsene finally recognising what I've just began to agree with this year... That Giroud is not up to it, nor is Theo... I think I hoped more than believed... But I don't anymore. IF (big if) Arsene splashes the cash and buys in a WC number 9, a Centre Half of real quality, a WC RMF and maybe another CMF/DMF then I will believe, but I just don't see him doing that much business. And if he doesn't, then he must go. Our team is not good enough, but our club* demands it!


*club = supporters...

JustTheOne

Elneny shows he still has eye for good talent, especially with players noone else seems to spot.

Hasn't lost it on that front but something somewhere else he has:(

JustTheOne

JustTheOne wrote: »

Elneny shows he still has eye for good talent, especially with players noone else seems to spot.

Hasn't lost it on that front but something somewhere else he has:(

I feel it's the players that let Wenger down this season. Same squad, less key injuries, better keeper, weaker top teams. They should have been able to easily get more points over the season.

Colonialboy

Basil3 wrote: »

Any positives about the win yesterday?

Yep its one more game closer to Wenger leaving.

Colonialboy

Basil3 wrote: »

I feel it's the players that let Wenger down this season. Same squad, less key injuries, better keeper, weaker top teams. They should have been able to easily get more points over the season.

Sounds like an excuse from Wenger himself.

Over the years he has blamed everyone and everything bar himself when Arsenal have come up short. Blaming referees, injuries, the opposition tactics, opposition being too physical, opposition sitting back, lack of money, the playing schedule, the wages.
Recently he ran out of excuses and started to blame the fans .
Then Wenger starts to blame the pressure .

Its only time before Wenger comes out and starts blaming the players he bought.

In an era when there really were only a few top teams and middle tier teams who would struggle Wengers left alot of trophys and success behind him because he had become a crap manager.
Football has changed , this season isnt a one off blip. Normal service that people got used to in hte last 10-15 years with the top four-five teams being more or less predictable at the start of the season is not coming back any time soon. The gap and standard, quality fitness etc between the top and middle tier has narrowed.

Football has always had swings and roundabouts, the next few years will see less domination of honours by 4-5 teams .
Pathetic part is when we really only had to compete with 4-5 other teams Wenger left a **** load of silverware behind cos he was too dumb and stubborn and stuck in his ways to spot real talent, spend money when it was needed and adpat to the modern game.

CatInABox

Basil3 wrote: »

I feel it's the players that let Wenger down this season. Same squad, less key injuries, better keeper, weaker top teams. They should have been able to easily get more points over the season.

Yeah, while I think Wenger should get his fair share of the blame, in some of the games, the players just didn't look bothered. You can say that again that's the fault of the manager, but these are professional players, they should want to win every match regardless of the manager.

Colonialboy

Colonialboy wrote: »

Sounds like an excuse from Wenger himself.

Over the years he has blamed everyone and everything bar himself when Arsenal have come up short. Blaming referees, injuries, the opposition tactics, opposition being too physical, opposition sitting back, lack of money, the playing schedule, the wages.
Recently he ran out of excuses and started to blame the fans .
Then Wenger starts to blame the pressure .

Its only time before Wenger comes out and starts blaming the players he bought.

In an era when there really were only a few top teams and middle tier teams who would struggle Wengers left alot of trophys and success behind him because he had become a crap manager.
Football has changed , this season isnt a one off blip. Normal service that people got used to in hte last 10-15 years with the top four-five teams being more or less predictable at the start of the season is not coming back any time soon. The gap and standard, quality fitness etc between the top and middle tier has narrowed.

Football has always had swings and roundabouts, the next few years will see less domination of honours by 4-5 teams .
Pathetic part is when we really only had to compete with 4-5 other teams Wenger left a **** load of silverware behind cos he was too dumb and stubborn and stuck in his ways to spot real talent, spend money when it was needed and adpat to the modern game.

I don't get your point, but I'm sure there is one somewhere.

You're saying Wenger has done really well, based on the performances of the traditional top teams?

greendom

Colonialboy wrote: »

Sounds like an excuse from Wenger himself.

Over the years he has blamed everyone and everything bar himself when Arsenal have come up short. Blaming referees, injuries, the opposition tactics, opposition being too physical, opposition sitting back, lack of money, the playing schedule, the wages.
Recently he ran out of excuses and started to blame the fans .
Then Wenger starts to blame the pressure .

Its only time before Wenger comes out and starts blaming the players he bought.

In an era when there really were only a few top teams and middle tier teams who would struggle Wengers left alot of trophys and success behind him because he had become a crap manager.
Football has changed , this season isnt a one off blip. Normal service that people got used to in hte last 10-15 years with the top four-five teams being more or less predictable at the start of the season is not coming back any time soon. The gap and standard, quality fitness etc between the top and middle tier has narrowed.

Football has always had swings and roundabouts, the next few years will see less domination of honours by 4-5 teams .
Pathetic part is when we really only had to compete with 4-5 other teams Wenger left a **** load of silverware behind cos he was too dumb and stubborn and stuck in his ways to spot real talent, spend money when it was needed and adpat to the modern game.

Nothing to do with being dumb and stubborn, but to do with the club being financially limited while main competitors had seemingly limitless funds in comparison.

(Not saying he isn't stubborn btw, just that wasn't the principal reason for failure over the last 10 years or so)

Ken Shamrock

Basil3 wrote: »

I don't get your point, but I'm sure there is one somewhere.

You're saying Wenger has done really well, based on the performances of the traditional top teams?

...

If that's what you've taken It from that post then there's something seriously wrong with you...

Ken Shamrock

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

...

If that's what you've taken It from that post then there's something seriously wrong with you...

He's saying that this season isn't a one off, and this is how it will be going forward? All the traditional top teams will struggle and Arsenal will be in the mix for the league?

I'm cool with that.

Ken Shamrock

Basil3 wrote: »

He's saying that this season isn't a one off, and this is how it will be going forward? All the traditional top teams will struggle and Arsenal will be in the mix for the league?

I'm cool with that.

You see what you want to see I guess.

keano_afc

Blaming the players is a cop out. Wenger trains them and picks them. If they dont perform its down to him.

Chelsea were horrendous this season until they brought in a manager who wasnt a dickhead. Same players, different results.

The failure to win the league this season is all on Wenger.

Ken Shamrock

keano_afc wrote: »

Blaming the players is a cop out. Wenger trains them and picks them. If they dont perform its down to him.

Chelsea were horrendous this season until they brought in a manager who wasnt a dickhead. Same players, different results.

The failure to win the league this season is all on Wenger.

Don't be silly, Wenger only affects the team positively... If something goes wrong It's someone else's fault. When anything goes right he's a genius.

Colonialboy

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Don't be silly, Wenger only affects the team positively... If something goes wrong It's someone else's fault. When anything goes right he's a genius.

like the old saying goes.. in Wengers mind
Arsenals victories have only one father .. Wenger
Arsenals regular end of year collapse has many fathers (money,injuries,fans,schedule,pressure, dog ran across the pitch etc) , none of which are Wenger.

keano_afc

keano_afc wrote: »

Blaming the players is a cop out. Wenger trains them and picks them. If they dont perform its down to him.

Chelsea were horrendous this season until they brought in a manager who wasnt a dickhead. Same players, different results.

The failure to win the league this season is all on Wenger.

Struggling to understand this logic. Their manager was a dickhead with the same (actually worse) players last season, and they won the league.

Was it Mourinho's fault they did so badly this year? Who knows. The fact is that they got into such a bad position, that his job was untenable.

Colonialboy

Colonialboy wrote: »

like the old saying goes.. in Wengers mind
Arsenals victories have only one father .. Wenger
Arsenals regular end of year collapse has many fathers (money,injuries,fans,schedule,pressure, dog ran across the pitch etc) , none of which are Wenger.

Do you watch Arsenal? Which regular end of year collapse? Which years have they collapsed at the end so I can look them up?

keano_afc

Basil3 wrote: »

Struggling to understand this logic. Their manager was a dickhead with the same (actually worse) players last season, and they won the league.

Was it Mourinho's fault they did so badly this year? Who knows. The fact is that they got into such a bad position, that his job was untenable.

It was his first full season and they played with virtually the same team from August to May. A few players lose form/get injured and the manager becomes a even bigger tit than he usually is. Hiddink comes in and the team start to play better. It was clearly the other twat that was the problem.

I dont blame the players for this season. I blame the manager who had no foresight in August to plan for injuries to key players. Again.

keano_afc

keano_afc wrote: »

It was his first full season and they played with virtually the same team from August to May. A few players lose form/get injured and the manager becomes a even bigger tit than he usually is. Hiddink comes in and the team start to play better. It was clearly the other twat that was the problem.

I dont blame the players for this season. I blame the manager who had no foresight in August to plan for injuries to key players. Again.

So the players won Chelsea the title, and Mourinho got lucky. Fair enough.

keano_afc

Basil3 wrote: »

So the players won Chelsea the title, and Mourinho got lucky. Fair enough.

As you keep missing my point, its probably best we go no further.

Ol' Donie

Alexis Sanchez has been, frankly, b*llocks since his return from injury.

He was amazing last season.

Same manager both seasons.

Is this season the manager's fault? What about last season?

greendom

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Alexis Sanchez has been, frankly, b*llocks since his return from injury.

He was amazing last season.

Same manager both seasons.

Is this season the manager's fault? What about last season?

Same with Walcott - player of the month for September. Plays a blinder against Man Utd in October. Gets injured and comes back a completely different player devoid of any footballing brain, it would seem

Sanchez is something of a one-trick pony against a "static" defence that stands off.

Walcott was excellent for a while. We had some dodgy results and he was likely told to hang back to cover Bellerin (judging from average position charts since Christmas) which in the end didn't help at all, left us with less going forward and other teams still managed to get through us.

`

extra gravy

There was a good post about Sanchez in the fantasy football forum by iusedtolikebusts:

"It seems that giroud is the problem for sanchez attacking returns. Giroud was injured for much of the first half of last season when sanchez was on fire. Earlier This season when sanchez had his purple patch it was with Walcott up front. He is now getting attacking returns again since wellbeck has started up front. I'd imagine quick players like walcott and wellbeck free up space for sanchez to run into."

L'prof

extra gravy wrote: »

There was a good post about Sanchez in the fantasy football forum by iusedtolikebusts:

"It seems that giroud is the problem for sanchez attacking returns. Giroud was injured for much of the first half of last season when sanchez was on fire. Earlier This season when sanchez had his purple patch it was with Walcott up front. He is now getting attacking returns again since wellbeck has started up front. I'd imagine quick players like walcott and wellbeck free up space for sanchez to run into."

That's enough for me, Giroud out

Colonialboy

extra gravy wrote: »

There was a good post about Sanchez in the fantasy football forum by iusedtolikebusts:

"It seems that giroud is the problem for sanchez attacking returns. Giroud was injured for much of the first half of last season when sanchez was on fire. Earlier This season when sanchez had his purple patch it was with Walcott up front. He is now getting attacking returns again since wellbeck has started up front. I'd imagine quick players like walcott and wellbeck free up space for sanchez to run into."

Yep you could be onto something.
Certain players do suit other players styles.
I dont think Wenger is a very good judge of that , hes not very good at pairing players , especially offensive players together that work and complement each others styles.

Aslo Wenger is not very good at keepign a settled team together, we were on a good run and he tinkered with the team when players returned . It messed up everynes form.

Wengers selection policy for picking the team seems to be in this order
Are you French
Are you a young french player I brought to the club
Are you a player I paid big money and the English media hype as world class
Are you a player who has a reputation and is returning from injury
Are you not-injured
Are you promising player in reserves who fills a position we have a gap in , so I will give you a try
Are you a promising player I loaned who fills a position we have a gap in
so I will give you a try

greendom

Colonialboy wrote: »

Yep you could be onto something.
Certain players do suit other players styles.
I dont think Wenger is a very good judge of that , hes not very good at pairing players , especially offensive players together that work and complement each others styles.

Aslo Wenger is not very good at keepign a settled team together, we were on a good run and he tinkered with the team when players returned . It messed up everynes form.

Wengers selection policy for picking the team seems to be in this order
Are you French
Are you a young french player I brought to the club
Are you a player I paid big money and the English media hype as world class
Are you a player who has a reputation and is returning from injury
Are you not-injured
Are you promising player in reserves who fills a position we have a gap in , so I will give you a try
Are you a promising player I loaned who fills a position we have a gap in
so I will give you a try

To Sum up all your posts - Wenger is not very good - I think we've got that !

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

To Sum up all your posts - Wenger is not very good - I think we've got that !

To sum up all your posts - Wenger Is very good and anyone who says differently will be belittled - I think we've got that !

gosplan

I don't think pairings really came into it.

Giroud was our only fit striker.

Ken Shamrock

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

To sum up all your posts - Wenger Is very good and anyone who says differently will be belittled - I think we've got that !

One point of view is moderate and reasoned. The other relies on talking bollix to make a point.

I know you can figure which is which.

Ken Shamrock

gosplan wrote: »

I don't think pairings really came into it.

Giroud was our only fit striker.

Cause nobody could see that coming and nobody could have done anything to prevent It?

Basil3 wrote: »

One point of view is moderate and reasoned. The other relies on talking bollix to make a point.

I know you can figure which is which.

Well, It depends what your definition of talking bollocks Is...

greendom

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

To sum up all your posts - Wenger Is very good and anyone who says differently will be belittled - I think we've got that !

The one thing you can say about Colonial Boy - he is very consistent. I do criticize however, so I'm not that.

For the record I think Wenger's time is more or less up and his team has disappointed this year.

I still think he had a remarkable record over the last 10 years since last winning the league, and this is the first season where it looks like he isn't going to meet expectations.

Hyzepher

I actually haven't given up hope.

I win on Saturday and I think it's still possible given the chance that Leicester still might find it hard to close it out. It's a very long shot but a better chance than the last number of seasons. If any fans know anything about slipping up it's us. It all boils down to beating West Ham on Saturday though.

By the time we play Man City we could be as little as 3 pts behind