Upgrade to surround - need advice!

unkel

Hi all

In the middle of an upgrade of my HTPC. Bought a decent mid range Pioneer VSX-930 AV 7.2 Receiver (linky). My PC has pretty ok specs, i5 4440, 16GB RAM, intel HD4600 Graphics

Have decent tall Monitor Audio Bronze B4 speakers (about 15 years old) hooked up and I'm very happy with music playback (via the onboard HDMI)

In future I'd like to go to a 4k monitor, but for now my 1080p monitor will have to do

I would like to go surround though, and I would like to know your advice / opinions on how to do this (with a very limited budget, but conscious that I don't want to waste money either on a bad upgrade)

I've heard it is important to match my front speakers with a good quality centre speaker

I have also heard that I don't necessarily need a subwoofer as the bass in my front speakers is already very decent (these are 100cm high 4-way speakers)

And that the quality of the rear shelf speakers isn't really that important

With that in mind I'm thinking of 2 solutions:

1. Buy decent matched Monitor Audio centre speaker like this:

linky

plus some cheap (second hand) rear shelf speakers, my current front speakers for a 5.0 system

2. Buy a cheap surround set like this:

linky

and use the subwoofer, the centre speaker, my current front speakers and the other 4 as rear speakers for a 7.1 system

Sorry for long post. Advice and comments very welcome. I'm new to surround setups

Before I forget, I do not game, high quality music is my highest priority but I would also really like a high quality audio surround experience that comes with playing BR movies

ninja 12

If it was me personally , I'd go with option 1 .

Invest in a decent centre speaker to match your fronts , and add surrounds later .

Don't forget , dialogue in films / tv will mostly come from the centre speaker .

You could wait until after you have a 5.0 setup , and if you feel that you are missing some oomph , add a sub .

I don't have a sub , ( furniture and room size / shape doesn't suit ) and don't notice a lack of bass .

My HTPC is connected to a Denon AVR-X3000 ,in my sitting room , paired with Monitor audio BX6 , BX Centre and BXFX surrounds ( and Acoustic Energy Aegis Compact for front height )

I use it for films / tv , music ( Using MediaPortal ) and gaming .



While option 2 seems like a very cost effective way of buying all the speakers you need , you would probably be underwhelmed with the centre , especially when paired with your front speakers .

Better quality 5.0 or 5.1 would be much better to have than lower quality 7.1

It would be a waste of money to buy the surround set you linked and discover you didn't like it , and end up upgrading and going with option 1 afterwards .


Hope this helps

unkel

Very helpful, thank you ninja 12

I was kinda thinking that myself after doing a bit of reading up, but I'm a novice in this area and I was afraid there was a chance I got it all wrong. Will be ordering a Monitor Audio Bronze Centre speaker soon :cool:

ninja 12

No problem , happy to help

mossym

its not a good quality center you need. it's one that tonally matches your mains. it can be as cheap as chips if the soundstage integration is seamless with your mains. usually the best way of doing this is to buy from the same family, but given yours are 15 years old this won't be an option, and sticking with the same manufacturer is next safest bet.

two things i disagree with. people always confuse big speakers with not needing subwoofers. according to a spec i found on those, they have a lower frequency limit of 36hz. they'll start to roll off way above this however. there is no way those speakers are covering the range a sub covers. they're big, sure, and will go lower than a set of bookshelves, but for example i have B&W 803's, probably cost 4 or 5 x what the MA cost, are noted for how low they go, and still run a sub with them and the difference is audible. not to say i don't listen to music without the sub on in direct mode, but trust me when i say those speakers are not covering where a sub plays best.

other thing was the quality of the rears. its true to say they don't need to be the same level as the front, but that was generally referring to not needing big floorstanders in the back as well (although i have floorstanders all round). it didn't really mean you could get away with cheap as chips. i'd still look to stick to the same brand as your mains, but smaller bookshelves from a similar range. don't make the mistake ive seen and heard loads make which is to stick really cheap crap back there and it just doesn't work when something pans from front to back or vice versa

ninja 12

mossym wrote: »

its not a good quality center you need. it's one that tonally matches your mains. it can be as cheap as chips if the soundstage integration is seamless with your mains. usually the best way of doing this is to buy from the same family, but given yours are 15 years old this won't be an option, and sticking with the same manufacturer is next safest bet.

Do you think the Bronze Centre would be the nearest match to the speakers Unkel has , given that they would both be from the Bronze range , although the B4 are a couple of generations older ?

mossym wrote: »

two things i disagree with. people always confuse big speakers with not needing subwoofers. according to a spec i found on those, they have a lower frequency limit of 36hz. they'll start to roll off way above this however. there is no way those speakers are covering the range a sub covers. they're big, sure, and will go lower than a set of bookshelves, but for example i have B&W 803's, probably cost 4 or 5 x what the MA cost, are noted for how low they go, and still run a sub with them and the difference is audible. not to say i don't listen to music without the sub on in direct mode, but trust me when i say those speakers are not covering where a sub plays best.

Agree with you on this , I just gave my opinion and experience with my setup .
I never got around to adding a sub , it always got pushed down the list , and can always be added later .

mossym wrote: »

other thing was the quality of the rears. its true to say they don't need to be the same level as the front, but that was generally referring to not needing big floorstanders in the back as well (although i have floorstanders all round). it didn't really mean you could get away with cheap as chips. i'd still look to stick to the same brand as your mains, but smaller bookshelves from a similar range. don't make the mistake ive seen and heard loads make which is to stick really cheap crap back there and it just doesn't work when something pans from front to back or vice versa

Something like a Bronze 1 should work well ?
, or ideally a Bronze FX




Given the options Unkel listed in the first post , what would you do if it were you ?

Would you go with option 1 , 2 , or something different ?

mossym

ninja 12 wrote: »

Do you think the Bronze Centre would be the nearest match to the speakers Unkel has , given that they would both be from the Bronze range , although the B4 are a couple of generations older ?

for sure, that was what i meant by suggesting stick with the same manufacturer. there will have been changes across the years but still likely to be the closest you can find

ninja 12 wrote: »

Agree with you on this , I just gave my opinion and experience with my setup .
I never got around to adding a sub , it always got pushed down the list , and can always be added later .

sorry, didn't mean to imply there was anything wrong with your setup, my reply was only to the OP's post. it's a common misconception that big speakers don't need subwoofers, only enhanced by reveiver makers who allow settings of small and large, when in reality vast majority of speakers, regardless of size should be set as small

big difference between deciding not to have a sub for cost/asthetics/lack of room, versus not having one on a minsunderstanding that you don't need one

ninja 12 wrote: »

Something like a Bronze 1 should work well ?
, or ideally a Bronze FX



Given the options Unkel listed in the first post , what would you do if it were you ?

Would you go with option 1 , 2 , or something different ?

personally, i don't like the idea of #2 at all. i'd buy the center you mentioned, and get a small set of bookshelves from the bronze series as rears. i'd add a sub as well. use the setup in direct mode for music, kick in the sub and surrounds for movies, gaming and tv.

The Ritz

Unkel,


I'm a bit late to this discussion but would strongly agree that you should choose option 1. I have MA B4s as my front mains, and a MA centre and BXFX surrounds and would encourage you to plan for a sub somewhere down the line, a dedicated sub makes a significant difference to the soundstage. With the B4s as main speakers you need a sub that will genuinely go below 25hz with decent output to make it worthwhile - entry level subs or small subs designed to accompany small satellite speakers will not really do the job. The like of REL, BK and Velodyne come up for sale in the secondhand market from time to time, it's worth keeping an eye out, and check the specs of any potential purchase.

I suspect our paths crossed in the distant past ? If so, hope your keeping well 😀.

Cheers Ritz

unkel

We have crossed paths, The Ritz, you bought a PC from me a lifetime ago

Thanks for the advice everyone. I will add a sub later on. Another question: would I be better to go for the MA Bronze centre (£160) or would that not be a material improvement over the MA MR centre (£79)? And likewise, would you advice I go MA Bronze BX1 rears (£149) or would MA MR1 (£99) do just as well? Or other suggestions?

What sub would you recommend? I'm getting a bit confused over this. Richersounds have the MA Bronze one for £449 (which is far more than I will be spending) but the frequency range starts from only 40Hz?

mossym

you have bronze series speakers, if the budget allows the best results would be gotten from staying in the same family

the exception is the sub. no need to match that. and i wouldn't be getting anything that only goes to 40hz

unkel

From 40Hz!

Linky

mossym

unkel wrote: »

From 40Hz!

Linky

From 40 hz up yes. That's poor. A decent sub will go much lower. Many go below hearing cutoff at 20hZ

mossym

mossym wrote: »

From 40 hz up yes. That's poor. A decent sub will go much lower. Many go below hearing cutoff at 20hZ

Sorry. Not many. Some

The Ritz

Lads, 40-150hz is the upper range of that sub, the lower limit is 27hz, see here from MA website http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/past-products/bronze-bx/bxw10



Ritz.

mossym

i thought 40hz seemed pretty poor alright, i probably should have read the links.

you won't be crossing over at 40 for a start, even if your mains say 36 i'd wager they've rolled off way above this. Dolby standard used say 80hz, which is the default for many, but a bit of playing around tells a lot and my old speakers were best with 100hz, my current ones 60. measured using REW. with your current speakers i'd say 80 would work, bit higher if anything

27hz as a lower cutoff would be a lot more acceptable in fairness.

unkel

Another quick one. My Pioneer VSX-930 has Dolby Atmos. Does a future upgrade from the above 5.0 or 5.1 system plan to Atmos only require two additional ceiling speakers (and a different setup) or is there more to it than that?

mossym

2 speakers will allow you the basic atmos setup, 4 the more advanced, so yup, adding two more will get you an atmos setup. see here
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/5-1-2-setups.html

unkel

MA Bronze Centre and pair of MA Bronze BX ordered

Now saving can start for a Sub and of course a 4k monitor

Wanderer78

unkel wrote: »

MA Bronze Centre and pair of MA Bronze BX ordered

Now saving can start for a Sub and of course a 4k monitor

how much did that cost you?

unkel

Centre £160, bookshelve speakers €149. Free shipping and a tiny discount off those prices from Richersounds

mossym

just one last bit of advice, as you asked about atmos, i'd prioritize the addition of a sub before additional speakers for atmos. not saying don't do both, but you'll get better return for your buck acoustically with a sub than the addition of atmos.

unkel

Atmos is low on my priority list, but I suppose it is a cheap upgrade compared to either a quality sub and / or a 4k monitor. Hopefully I'll have my 5.0 setup installed tomorrow

unkel

Working great

Didn't realise how important the centre speaker was, glad I went for the more expensive bronze one.