neigbour removed frosted with plain glass

bobbyss

My garden is overlooked by gable window of neighbour. Recently he had the window enlarged and the frosted glass in same replaced with plain glass. Now he sees direct into my garden and upstairs etc.

Does he need planning permission to enlarge the window?
Has he the right to replace the frosted glass?
I saw no planning notice.

Any advice on what I should do?
Thanks in advance.

Sam Kade

I doubt he needs planning to replace a frosted window with a plain window. There are plenty houses around where they can see into neighbours gardens, can you see his garden and upstairs from your window?

ted1

Sam Kade wrote: »

I doubt he needs planning to replace a frosted window with a plain window. There are plenty houses around where they can see into neighbours gardens, can you see his garden from your window?

It can be a condition of planning. How far is the window from yours and What is the room the window is in used for ?

bobbyss

ted1 wrote: »

It can be a condition of planning. How far is the window from yours and What is the room the window is in used for ?

It's an apartment. That room would have been a kitchen. I think he changed the inside of it as well. We had huge issues when that property was built in the first place and we made so, so many objections. One of the conditions was that a balcony he has have frosted windows because he could peer into our garden if he looked at a certain angle. This remains intact.

I am sure that he had frosted windows placed in as a condition as well.

But my main query is that if it was a planning condition, can he now all of a sudden get rid of the frosted glass and put in plain glass?

CarrickMcJoe

If it was a condition in planning, then it's still so. I'm guessing your neighbour is chancing his arm, and if there are objections, will apply for retention of clear glass.

bobbyss

CarrickMcJoe wrote: »

If it was a condition in planning, then it's still so. I'm guessing your neighbour is chancing his arm, and if there are objections, will apply for retention of clear glass.

And would the council have a record of that detail?


This is something I don't understand.
If it was a planning condition, then how can he just change it and hope to get retention?
There were reasons it was made a planning condition and those reasons still apply do they not?

It is like if I only had planning permission to build a bungalow not a two story house.So I build a bungalow. But after ten years I just go ahead and build a two story house. Why would I expect to get permission if I was not allowed to build a bungalow in the first place. Or is planning permission valid for only some years and then expires.
Excuse my ignorance but I have little experience in these matters.

elperello

Search the planning history of the site and you will be able to see the planning conditions applying to the building.

This may be possible on the local authority website or you might have to visit the planning department office.
Basically you will be looking up a map to find reference numbers of planning permissions granted and then consulting the relevant files. The important document is the one granting permission.The permission may have been granted by the local authority or An Bord Pleanala.

If you find that a condition was breached you can make a complaint in writing to the enforcement section of the local authority.

Gumbo

Is the window at ground floor or first floor?
1m rule applies at ground and 11m rule at first and if he has enlarged it deffo needs planning.

My advice, send a complaint to the planning enforcement section of your council. They will keep your details confidential and investigate it on your behalf. They will check all previous planning files and if all conditions are met and they will then serve notice on the owner if they have breeches any of the planning regs.

What council area are you in?

Angry bird

Sounds like it needs planning and not just because of a planning condition. As kceire said send in complaint to the local council planning enforcement section.

Metric Tensor

Do exactly as kceire says. Contact the "Planning Enforcement" section of your local authority.

Ring them first and follow up with a written letter. Ask for a receipt so you have something to refer back to if you are following up later.

It will take time but the council are obliged to follow up on your complaint and if your neighbour has done something that requires planning permission without applying for same the council will write to him and tell him to either reinstate the original or apply for retention. If he applies for retention you will have the opportunity to lodge an observation at which point you can refer to the condition on his original planning that said he must have frosted glass.

bobbyss

Angry bird wrote: »

Sounds like it needs planning and not just because of a planning condition. As kceire said send in complaint to the local council planning enforcement section.

Yes. I have just sent in an email re the situation. I don't have the time to go searching in the council and would not be experienced regarding that. I gave a planning application/permission(?) number as a source. Will they do that for me? Isn't that their job, not mine?

If planning permission says there must be a frosted window and he has replaced it, will the council demand him to change it as I have objected?

ted1

bobbyss wrote: »

Yes. I have just sent in an email re the situation. I don't have the time to go searching in the council and would not be experienced regarding that. I gave a planning application/permission(?) number as a source. Will they do that for me? Isn't that their job, not mine?

If planning permission says there must be a frosted window and he has replaced it, will the council demand him to change it as I have objected?

What council area is it? Planning applications are available on line it takes seconds to find. Saying you have no time is saying that you are lazy or it doesn't really bother you

Here's an example of a search: http://planning.dlrcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/wphappcriteria.display

0ph0rce0

Poor man just wants to see the outside world again after years behind all that frosted glass

Gumbo

Metric Tensor wrote: »

Do exactly as kceire says. Contact the "Planning Enforcement" section of your local authority.

Ring them first and follow up with a written letter. Ask for a receipt so you have something to refer back to if you are following up later.

It will take time but the council are obliged to follow up on your complaint and if your neighbour has done something that requires planning permission without applying for same the council will write to him and tell him to either reinstate the original or apply for retention. If he applies for retention you will have the opportunity to lodge an observation at which point you can refer to the condition on his original planning that said he must have frosted glass.

bobbyss wrote: »

Yes. I have just sent in an email re the situation. I don't have the time to go searching in the council and would not be experienced regarding that. I gave a planning application/permission(?) number as a source. Will they do that for me? Isn't that their job, not mine?

If planning permission says there must be a frosted window and he has replaced it, will the council demand him to change it as I have objected?

Asking as you explained the nature of the complaint and have passed on all your details such as name and address the LA will respond to your email confirming receipt of the complaint.

The Plan Enf section will write a letter to the owner outlining the alleged breech to which they have 4 weeks to reply or explain the situation. After that an inspector will visit the site and make a judgement on it.

The whole process can only be started if you provide your full contact details btw.
You will not get a receipt per se but the confirmation email will suffice and they may or may not keep you informed on the process. They don't have to inform you of what's happening but you will notice of nothing is done.

bobbyss

ted1 wrote: »

What council area is it? Planning applications are available on line it takes seconds to find. Saying you have no time is saying that you are lazy or it doesn't really bother you

Here's an example of a search: http://planning.dlrcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/wphappcriteria.display

You may have misunderstood me here.

I have no time to go up to the planning office and get the planning permission and look at the drawings to see if there is a condition re frosted window.

This was part of my query: if I inform the council of a suspected breach of planning conditions ie by informing them via email, whose job is it to find out if there is an actual breach? The council or me? Surely it is the council's job? I am not a engineer so I can not say for definite. But an engineer in the council can.

I have already seen the planning applications on line and (Through a map via the council but did not see one for this building.) and that took only a few minutes.

Gumbo

bobbyss wrote: »

You may have misunderstood me here.

I have no time to go up to the planning office and get the planning permission and look at the drawings to see if there is a condition re frosted window.

This was part of my query: if I inform the council of a suspected breach of planning conditions ie by informing them via email, whose job is it to find out if there is an actual breach? The council or me? Surely it is the council's job? I am not a engineer so I can not say for definite. But an engineer in the council can.

I have already seen the planning applications on line and (Through a map via the council but did not see one for this building.) and that took only a few minutes.

Aslong as your complaint is valid an inspector will visit.
Please read my post above to explain the process.

bobbyss

kceire wrote: »

Asking as you explained the nature of the complaint and have passed on all your details such as name and address the LA will respond to your email confirming receipt of the complaint.

The Plan Enf section will write a letter to the owner outlining the alleged breech to which they have 4 weeks to reply or explain the situation. After that an inspector will visit the site and make a judgement on it.

The whole process can only be started if you provide your full contact details btw.
You will not get a receipt per se but the confirmation email will suffice and they may or may not keep you informed on the process. They don't have to inform you of what's happening but you will notice of nothing is done.

I see. Thanks for that. I appreciate it.


Warning: Incoming Rant.

(But they don't have to inform me of what's happening? They may or may not keep me informed? What kind of a f.....g process is that then? Why wouldn't they inform me? A citizen raises a concern and the relevant authority may or may not get back to me depending on...? For many years we have had issues with planning and backhanders etc. And at the most basic level when a citizen queries something we get this way of treating people from a local authority. I thought they would have been legally obliged to update me on what was happening if I informed them of a suspected breach.

As I mentioned above, there were a lot of objections regarding this development in the past more than a decade ago and I do recall going up to the planning office with some neigbours and being treated as if we were bunch of cranks or something and Mr So and So is out of the office kind of thing. And a sneering engineer barely tolerating us as it at a meeting. They really did not want to know.

Apologies. Rant f.....g over)

Gumbo

bobbyss wrote: »

I see. Thanks for that. I appreciate it.


Warning: Incoming Rant.

(But they don't have to inform me of what's happening? They may or may not keep me informed? What kind of a f.....g process is that then? Why wouldn't they inform me? A citizen raises a concern and the relevant authority may or may not get back to me depending on...? For many years we have had issues with planning and backhanders etc. And at the most basic level when a citizen queries something we get this way of treating people from a local authority. I thought they would have been legally obliged to update me on what was happening if I informed them of a suspected breach.

As I mentioned above, there were a lot of objections regarding this development in the past more than a decade ago and I do recall going up to the planning office with some neigbours and being treated as if we were bunch of cranks or something and Mr So and So is out of the office kind of thing. And a sneering engineer barely tolerating us as it at a meeting. They really did not want to know.

Apologies. Rant f.....g over)

Ranting aside, you need to understand how the Planning & Development Act works.

You keep mentioning engineer this and engineer that, but the planners are not engineers and it's them that decide if planning is approved or not.

As I said, the May inform you of the whole process but you've done your civic duty by reporting it. After that it becomes a legal case between the council and the property owner so in my opinion you have no right to know what happens between them. But you can be sure that the Plan Enf section will ensure its planning compliant and that's for sure. They have a very fair but swift legal process.

ted1

bobbyss wrote: »

You may have misunderstood me here.

I have no time to go up to the planning office and get the planning permission and look at the drawings to see if there is a condition re frosted window.

This was part of my query: if I inform the council of a suspected breach of planning conditions ie by informing them via email, whose job is it to find out if there is an actual breach? The council or me? Surely it is the council's job? I am not a engineer so I can not say for definite. But an engineer in the council can.

I have already seen the planning applications on line and (Through a map via the council but did not see one for this building.) and that took only a few minutes.

The conditions are also on line so you cause if it stipulates frosted glass is needed

bobbyss

kceire wrote: »

Ranting aside, you need to understand how the Planning & Development Act works.

You keep mentioning engineer this and engineer that, but the planners are not engineers and it's them that decide if planning is approved or not.

As I said, the May inform you of the whole process but you've done your civic duty by reporting it. After that it becomes a legal case between the council and the property owner so in my opinion you have no right to know what happens between them. But you can be sure that the Plan Enf section will ensure its planning compliant and that's for sure. They have a very fair but swift legal process.

Ok. You clearly know more about this than I do. And thanks for your reply.
I am not clear who 'them' is in your post: the engineers or planners?

Now.
Are all suspected breaches investigated? Would they deem my email as frivolous? (To me it's not)
What happens next with my email?
Who goes out to investigate? an engineer, a planner?
Who decides if there is a breach?
What is the chain of events?
If they were to contact me, what would the time frame?

If there is a legal case between the council and owner, why wouldn't the public have the right to know about it?
Thanks for responses.

Gumbo

bobbyss wrote: »

Ok. You clearly know more about this than I do. And thanks for your reply.
I am not clear who 'them' is in your post: the engineers or planners?.

Planners. Council engineers do not get involved in the planning process save for roads and drainage conditions.

bobbyss wrote: »

Now.
Are all suspected breaches investigated? Would they deem my email as frivolous? (To me it's not)
What happens next with my email?
Who goes out to investigate? an engineer, a planner?
Who decides if there is a breach?
What is the chain of events?
If they were to contact me, what would the time frame?

If there is a legal case between the council and owner, why wouldn't the public have the right to know about it?
Thanks for responses.

Yes, every valid complaint is investigated by the Plan Enf section. They are legally obliged to.
Your email gets stored in a file that's passed onto the planning enforcement Officier.
Planning enforcement inspector goes out, not a planner or not an ENGINEER.
Chain of events - please read my post #14 on this thread.

If your complaint went in by email, they should reply on Monday stating that they have received your complaint and have passed it on to the area inspector. That may be the last you hear of it. Again, which LA did you send it to as this may have a bearing on process etc

The public will know about it if it gets that far. You do remember the 96 year old in court over the satellite dish don't you? Until the inspector makes a judgement and recommendations to the planning enforcement manager nobody has the right to know anything as it could be a case of he said, she said or indeed a made up complaint, which happens a lot here in Dublin.

Angry bird

Once the council verify the complaint it then turns to legalities between the Council and your neighbour. Council policy is usually to keep a complaintant aprised of where things are at but there is no legal requirement to keep you updated, as you are an outside party.

Metric Tensor

Just to reiterate one of kceire's points above.

I'm not connected to any local authority and even I know of a number if cases of frivolous complaints. Some of them are honest mistakes but many of them attempts to cause trouble. I've seen some ridiculous cases!

bobbyss

kceire wrote: »

Planners. Council engineers do not get involved in the planning process save for roads and drainage conditions.




Yes, every valid complaint is investigated by the Plan Enf section. They are legally obliged to.
Your email gets stored in a file that's passed onto the planning enforcement Officier.
Planning enforcement inspector goes out, not a planner or not an ENGINEER.
Chain of events - please read my post #14 on this thread.

If your complaint went in by email, they should reply on Monday stating that they have received your complaint and have passed it on to the area inspector. That may be the last you hear of it. Again, which LA did you send it to as this may have a bearing on process etc

The public will know about it if it gets that far. You do remember the 96 year old in court over the satellite dish don't you? Until the inspector makes a judgement and recommendations to the planning enforcement manager nobody has the right to know anything as it could be a case of he said, she said or indeed a made up complaint, which happens a lot here in Dublin.

Many thanks for response and very helpful.

The window on the gable on the first floor of the apartment block is 5 m from my back wall but further to the back of my house ie my toilet windows, kitchen etc.

It is Galway City Council.

Just to confirm if I have the planning application number that I can check out the conditions (ie frosted window)?

Posts 7 above says it may be on a LA's website, not necessarily that it will be). Why would that be ? I would have thought that all LAs would have to follow the same guidelines in terms of accessibility.

Would you advise me to keep contacting the council re this? If this may be the last I hear of it, I certainly want to know how things are going. I want to know if this owner has been advised to change the window.

I will give it a go on the website and we will say how an ordinary Joe Soap gets on.
Thanks a lot.

Gumbo

bobbyss wrote: »

Many thanks for response and very helpful.

The window on the gable on the first floor of the apartment block is 5 m from my back wall but further to the back of my house ie my toilet windows, kitchen etc.

It is Galway City Council.

Just to confirm if I have the planning application number that I can check out the conditions (ie frosted window)?

Posts 7 above says it may be on a LA's website, not necessarily that it will be). Why would that be ? I would have thought that all LAs would have to follow the same guidelines in terms of accessibility.

Would you advise me to keep contacting the council re this? If this may be the last I hear of it, I certainly want to know how things are going. I want to know if this owner has been advised to change the window.

I will give it a go on the website and we will say how an ordinary Joe Soap gets on.
Thanks a lot.

Different LA's use different systems. Every planning application is available for inspection in person but some have better online facilities. For example, Dublin is the only LA currently that you can lodge an online application.

In regards to constantly chasing this up, you could end up as a nuisance complainant. You've sent the email. If you don't get a response within 7 days then call and confirm that your email has been received. Did you attaché photos or anything to substantiate your complaint? Did you include your full name and address?

Dublin will accept a complaint by email once it contains all the required info. Other LA's may want it in writing. No complaints are valid by phone or without the complainants full details.

Angry bird

Here's the relevant link for galway city council planning enforcement and complaints.

http://www.galwaycity.ie/unauthorised-development-information/#2

Angry bird

Metric Tensor wrote: »

Just to reiterate one of kceire's points above.

I'm not connected to any local authority and even I know of a number if cases of frivolous complaints. Some of them are honest mistakes but many of them attempts to cause trouble. I've seen some ridiculous cases!

A frivolous complaint can be dismissed and any council worth its salt will look first to dismiss if it can. A complaintant would be informed of such.

bobbyss

kceire wrote: »

Different LA's use different systems. Every planning application is available for inspection in person but some have better online facilities. For example, Dublin is the only LA currently that you can lodge an online application.

In regards to constantly chasing this up, you could end up as a nuisance complainant. You've sent the email. If you don't get a response within 7 days then call and confirm that your email has been received. Did you attaché photos or anything to substantiate your complaint? Did you include your full name and address?

Dublin will accept a complaint by email once it contains all the required info. Other LA's may want it in writing. No complaints are valid by phone or without the complainants full details.

Will hold back as I don't wish to be a nuisance complainant.

Could not find anything on GCC website re this planning. Does it matter if it goes back to late 90s (works are being done now though)
I sent email with the issue related, the original planning application number, my own details.
I am assuming all they have to do is to look at the original conditions and take a visit to the location?

By the way, if I do have to go into the planning office myself do I just give them the planning application number and they give me a file with everything on it (including the large volume of correspondence I and my neighbours had with the council in late 90s concerning many, many issues relating to this site)? Do I have to give them notice?
Where will it say about the frosted windows? In a map or in a list of conditions?

Finally, just to recap.

Their enlarged window on the gable of his apartment is five metres from my back wall. It is on the first floor. (Trees have been grown to obscure this window when apts were first built but I would like now to take them down)

Based on this information:
Would you think he needed PP?
Would he get it if he did apply?
Will my objection to
a. the enlarged window
b the lack of frosted glass
be vaild?

What are his options now?
Thanks a lot.

Gumbo

bobbyss wrote: »

Could not find anything on GCC website re this planning. Does it matter if it goes back to late 90s (works are being done now though)

Its possible the GCC have not added legacy applications to their online search function. Freedom of Information and privacy around Planning Applications only loosened up in the mid 2000's, so you would most likely not get access to any of the files online for an app that old. its the same throughout the country.

bobbyss wrote: »

I sent email with the issue related, the original planning application number, my own details.
I am assuming all they have to do is to look at the original conditions and take a visit to the location?

They will follow the process I outlined in post #14.

bobbyss wrote: »

By the way, if I do have to go into the planning office myself do I just give them the planning application number and they give me a file with everything on it (including the large volume of correspondence I and my neighbours had with the council in late 90s concerning many, many issues relating to this site)? Do I have to give them notice?
Where will it say about the frosted windows? In a map or in a list of conditions?

You may have to call in, request the file and pay the archive retention fee. In Dublin its €50 as files that old are stored off site by a privately run company.
It may take 2-3 days for the file to come into the office and then you will get a call to say its available. GCC may operate a different system, only way to know is to call them Monday morning and ask them the process involved in requesting to view an old planning file.

Yes, everything lodged in support or against the application should be in the file that comes back in, including all objections.

The info around the frosted glass will be contained in the elevation drawings. See if the Architect called up frosted glass and then check the Final Grant of Permission to see if the frosted glass is a condition.

bobbyss wrote: »

Finally, just to recap.

Their enlarged window on the gable of his apartment is five metres from my back wall. It is on the first floor. (Trees have been grown to obscure this window when apts were first built but I would like now to take them down)

Are the trees on their land or your land?

bobbyss wrote: »

Based on this information:
Would you think he needed PP?
Would he get it if he did apply?
Will my objection to
a. the enlarged window
b the lack of frosted glass
be vaild?

What are his options now?
Thanks a lot.

Cannot 100% say for sure without seeing a photo of the gable wall showing the window in question.
Your complaint should be valid and the Inspector will visit the site and give the home owner some options, mainly :

• Restore it back to its previous position.
• Apply for a Retention Application to keep the window.

They will work with them to allow a retention come in if the home owner plays ball and lodges in a timely manner.

RainyDay

bobbyss wrote: »

You may have misunderstood me here.

I have no time to go up to the planning office and get the planning permission and look at the drawings to see if there is a condition re frosted window.

If this is an important issue to you, as it seems to be, it is very much in your own interest to check the planning history on the website and read it carefully.

bobbyss

kceire wrote: »

Its possible the GCC have not added legacy applications to their online search function. Freedom of Information and privacy around Planning Applications only loosened up in the mid 2000's, so you would most likely not get access to any of the files online for an app that old. its the same throughout the country.



They will follow the process I outlined in post #14.

You may have to call in, request the file and pay the archive retention fee. In Dublin its €50 as files that old are stored off site by a privately run company.
It may take 2-3 days for the file to come into the office and then you will get a call to say its available. GCC may operate a different system, only way to know is to call them Monday morning and ask them the process involved in requesting to view an old planning file.

Yes, everything lodged in support or against the application should be in the file that comes back in, including all objections.

The info around the frosted glass will be contained in the elevation drawings. See if the Architect called up frosted glass and then check the Final Grant of Permission to see if the frosted glass is a condition.

Are the trees on their land or your land?

Cannot 100% say for sure without seeing a photo of the gable wall showing the window in question.
Your complaint should be valid and the Inspector will visit the site and give the home owner some options, mainly :

• Restore it back to its previous position.
• Apply for a Retention Application to keep the window.

They will work with them to allow a retention come in if the home owner plays ball and lodges in a timely manner.

Trees on my side.

But what kind of a planning process do we have if he is allowed to keep the enlarged window.

The regulations mean nothing if someone just breaks them and applies for retention.

Why would he be allowed to retain the window if he was in breach of planning conditions?

Why reason would the Inspector give them a chance to retain the work done if my complaint is valid? A valid complaint then becomes worthless.
Surely these conditions are independent of the Inspector? And he simply enforces the law. I find this incredible.

Is there any point in me objecting at all if that is the case?
Of course the owner would lodge for retention. Why wouldn't he.
Where does that leave me? What options do I then have in this scenario?
And €50 for the pleasure of looking at conditions that mean nothing?
What is the point in me doing all as you advised if the fellow can get retention?

hexosan

bobbyss wrote: »

Trees on my side.

But what kind of a planning process do we have if he is allowed to keep the enlarged window.

The regulations mean nothing if someone just breaks them and applies for retention.

Why would he be allowed to retain the window if he was in breach of planning conditions?

Why reason would the Inspector give them a chance to retain the work done if my complaint is valid? A valid complaint then becomes worthless.
Surely these conditions are independent of the Inspector? And he simply enforces the law. I find this incredible.

Is there any point in me objecting at all if that is the case?
Of course the owner would lodge for retention. Why wouldn't he.
Where does that leave me? What options do I then have in this scenario?
And €50 for the pleasure of looking at conditions that mean nothing?
What is the point in me doing all as you advised if the fellow can get retention?

Sure done nothing and let him keep the window. So far your whinging that the planning system is totally against you yet how are the council to know unless you make a complaint.
You've got to love the victim mentality before you've even been made a victim.

BryanF

bobbyss wrote: »

Trees on my side.

But what kind of a planning process do we have if he is allowed to keep the enlarged window.

The regulations mean nothing if someone just breaks them and applies for retention.

Why would he be allowed to retain the window if he was in breach of planning conditions?

Why reason would the Inspector give them a chance to retain the work done if my complaint is valid? A valid complaint then becomes worthless.
Surely these conditions are independent of the Inspector? And he simply enforces the law. I find this incredible.

Is there any point in me objecting at all if that is the case?
Of course the owner would lodge for retention. Why wouldn't he.
Where does that leave me? What options do I then have in this scenario?
And €50 for the pleasure of looking at conditions that mean nothing?
What is the point in me doing all as you advised if the fellow can get retention?

The only thing incredible, is the number of people who repeated the same info inorder to help your situation. You had your rant a few posts back, this thread is now pointless and decending into a pointless circular rant. Thread closed