Season 6 | Episode 12 | Not Tomorrow Yet [AMC] [SPOILERS]

Lone Stone

8

delly wrote: »

Someone earlier mentioned that it was a bit much that Team Rick did not have one casualty, but I think this is great. I was expecting casulties, the show will happily kill off semi main charecters when it wants, so it was a surprise in terms of what not to expect.

While this may not be the main compound, at least we didn't have to wait a large part of the season in a buildup to attacking Neagan. It's done now, onward and upward/downward.

i was actully glad no one died as im sick to death of non main characters dying like lemmings walking of a cliff. plus they went in at dawn when people were asleep coming off watch duty so the element of surprise made it more realistic that they had them off guard.

tommy2bad

6

Good episode.
Surprised the saviors didn't keep more arms with them, it shows how secure they felt which should have clued Rick as to how potentially dangerous they are, instead he assumed they were like the Alexindrians, guns locked up = aversion to violence.
Ominous clues here and their, the photos on the wall, Carol and Maggie's disagreement on Maggie's risky behaviour.
This season is much better paced and written than any bar the first one perhaps it the sense of being set up for a fall but I'm actually enjoying the minor characters much more and fearing for the main leads. Which is something last season lacked.

DoozerT6

Dandelion6 wrote: »

Didn't one of them say "Which one was Negan" though? That suggests they actually thought they'd killed them all.

I was thinking (and just from my own point of view), that there had to be more to it, even before the guy on the motorbike appeared. It all seemed too easy. Also, the group didn't know what Negan looked like...it's possible the guy from Hilltop who went to the door with the head in the bag, or even Jesus for that matter, didn't know what he looked like either....I can't remember off-hand, but did they ever describe him, or describe having actually met him?

I just felt it in me waters.... this ain't ovah *to be said in Charles Bronson (a la the Simpsons) voice*

alchemist33

8

Business Cat wrote: »

For someone that seemingly hates the show you sure spend a helluva lot of time deconstructing it.

I really don't understand peoples issues with a show about a zombie Apocalypse, picking apart plot holes and what not.

Some shows are not based in reality, look at Game of Thrones, there are dragons and magic, or Breaking Bad where a nerdy teacher becomes a sadistic, murdering, Class A drug empire kingpin over the space of a couple of years. Its fantasy and pure unadulterated escapism so obviously its not always going to make logical sense.

Sheesh.

I don't agree with Mr Nice Guy's assessment, but I disagree with this. SF/Fantasy stories should have plots as tight as any other type of fiction. Sure, you have something speculative like dragons or zombies, but within the world the writer has created the rules of physics and logic should be obeyed.

Otherwise, I liked this episode a lot. For those who like character deaths, they seem to be a-comin'!

intheclouds

I wondered why they didnt just petrol bomb/set fire to the compound and then pick off the people as they came running out the only entrance.

Wolverine359

intheclouds wrote: »

I wondered why they didnt just petrol bomb/set fire to the compound and then pick off the people as they came running out the only entrance.

Because that'd be too easy and boring and we'd miss out on a cool close-quarter gun battle! :pac:

Riskymove

intheclouds wrote: »

I wondered why they didnt just petrol bomb/set fire to the compound and then pick off the people as they came running out the only entrance.

as we see after the fight, there were other exits

it would also allow them to arm and suit up so wouldn't be as easy as the ambush they planned.

La_Gordy

6

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

Never realised what Carol was writing was her kill list!

Where?!

Was it who was gonny get it or who has already been got?

mickoneill31

6

I enjoyed the episode mostly except for the last 20 seconds.

Everythings gone great but somebody somewhere has done something stupid to put themselves in peril. Again.

intheclouds

mickoneill31 wrote: »

I enjoyed the episode mostly except for the last 20 seconds.

Everythings gone great but somebody somewhere has done something stupid to put themselves in peril. Again.

And as if they would have held onto them after that massacre! Surely they would have just killed them!

Sand

6

intheclouds wrote: »

And as if they would have held onto them after that massacre! Surely they would have just killed them!

Its not unbelievable that if you had enemy forces at a huge disadvantage that you wouldn't take them alive for questioning (who is this group that attacked us?) or for simple prisoner exchanges if you thought your base was overrun and they might have taken prisoners too.

What is unbelievable is that plot armour is so heavy that Rick can wipe out an entire base with what...himself, Michonne, Abraham, Daryl, Rosita...5 characters who have killed living humans on screen and take 0 casualties in extended exchanges with over a dozen feared and brutal enemies with automatic weapons in close quarters. The TV series flip flops between soft, incompetent fools being unable to cope with the new brutal reality, and then toning down the brutal realism to protect the main characters from the implied consequences of that environment. Surely, if the theme was to be consistent, Rick would be doing a *lot* more scouting and recon than brashly attacking a group he knew next to nothing about - not numbers, not armament or defences, not even what the leader looked like.

Christ, Alexandria just barely survived the last bout of Rick brashness when he decided it was a good idea to lead a horde out of the quarry it was safely trapped in and bring it to the gates of Alexandria.

The Randy Riverbeast

Sand wrote: »

Christ, Alexandria just barely survived the last bout of Rick brashness when he decided it was a good idea to lead a horde out of the quarry it was safely trapped in and bring it to the gates of Alexandria.

In that situation the quarry was collapsing and they were going to get out, the idea was to lead them away rather than letting them all wander loose.

topmanamillion

8

Sand wrote: »

Its not unbelievable that if you had enemy forces at a huge disadvantage that you wouldn't take them alive for questioning (who is this group that attacked us?) or for simple prisoner exchanges if you thought your base was overrun and they might have taken prisoners too.

What is unbelievable is that plot armour is so heavy that Rick can wipe out an entire base with what...himself, Michonne, Abraham, Daryl, Rosita...5 characters who have killed living humans on screen and take 0 casualties in extended exchanges with over a dozen feared and brutal enemies with automatic weapons in close quarters. The TV series flip flops between soft, incompetent fools being unable to cope with the new brutal reality, and then toning down the brutal realism to protect the main characters from the implied consequences of that environment. Surely, if the theme was to be consistent, Rick would be doing a *lot* more scouting and recon than brashly attacking a group he knew next to nothing about - not numbers, not armament or defences, not even what the leader looked like.

Christ, Alexandria just barely survived the last bout of Rick brashness when he decided it was a good idea to lead a horde out of the quarry it was safely trapped in and bring it to the gates of Alexandria.

They were safely trapped in? It was only a matter of time before potentially 100s of thousands of walkers rained down on Alexandria. One of the trucks collapsed into the quarry and they had to move the operation forward.
It actually would have worked perfectly if the wolves hadn't attacked.
I agree they should have done more reconnaissance but the saviours had a hostage which put them on a limited time scale.

Potential-Monke

7

smash wrote: »

More to the point... did I fall asleep for a few minutes or did they just happen to find with 3 dead guys that all looked a bit like Gregory who also hadn't turned in to zombies?

When the first rolled up in convoy, they all went their separate ways to find zombies that might look like Gregory, that's why Glenn and the other guy were commenting on if the zombie they found would do. They then went back to the convoy, decided on the best zombie head, and Rick went ultra cool and psycho and punched a decapitated zombie head! Awesome!

Sand wrote: »

Surely, if the theme was to be consistent, Rick would be doing a *lot* more scouting and recon than brashly attacking a group he knew next to nothing about - not numbers, not armament or defences, not even what the leader looked like.

(You're not the only one to post this, so not aimed at you) They didn't have the time. The people of Hilltop only had until nightfall to return with Gregorys head or they would have killed the Hilltop hostage and possibly attacked Hilltop. That's why it was brash, but he went on the information that he had from Jesus and other Hilltopians(?) and decided that taking this chance was better for Alexandria as they needed food, and Hilltop had a lot of it.

Sand wrote: »

Christ, Alexandria just barely survived the last bout of Rick brashness when he decided it was a good idea to lead a horde out of the quarry it was safely trapped in and bring it to the gates of Alexandria.

But it wasn't safely trapped. When they went to recon the place, the zombies had awesome timing in managing to knock over/get past the trucks. That's why it was a rush job then too. They thought they had more time, but everything went tits up. They wanted more time to plan, even though they had a lot of planning done already, but good tv won't give you more time. (Edit: I don't know how long it took me to write this, but i'm fairly sure i was the firs to post after your comment!?!)

A very enjoyable episode, and i too thought it was a bit of a stretch going from killing for defence to killing for future defence, like many have mentioned it's similar to the Governer. However, any doubts i had were immediately shed when i saw the photos. These guys are obviously psycho, and coupled with the face that Daryl, Abraham and the other were were nearly killed by the group of bikers, it's obvious that they were bad guys, who would have eventually found Alexandria. Whether they would have attacked or not (due to lack of resources), i don't know, but Alexandria does have a Doctor, which i'm sure is in short supply, not to mention a place that can be relatively well defended (in the scheme of zombie apocalypse safehouses, it's pretty good). Hard to call, but it sure will be interesting to see what this Negan (or is it Neagen?) is like.

It's also obvious that it was only an outpost, no signs of living there. Just weed and guns. And a crew that small would not pose as big a threat as the Hilltopians were suggesting. Also, gun toting, scripture reading Gabriel for the win! That's the only time religion is cool (on tv), when people are using it right when they're killing (like Boondock Saints, which also stars Daryl!).

Sand

6

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

In that situation the quarry was collapsing and they were going to get out, the idea was to lead them away rather than letting them all wander loose.

topmanamillion wrote: »

They were safely trapped in? It was only a matter of time before potentially 100s of thousands of walkers rained down on Alexandria.

They were stuck in that quarry for ... 18 months minimum?

They broke out because Rick and his team were at the quarry, pulling up in vehicles making noise and agitating them. Rightly or wrongly, Rick's plan was to lance the boil of potential problem and it very quickly became an existential problem with the horde moving from the quarry to inside the walls of Alexandria with many deaths. All of that happened on Ricks watch, under his leadership.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

(You're not the only one to post this, so not aimed at you) They didn't have the time. The people of Hilltop only had until nightfall to return with Gregorys head or they would have killed the Hilltop hostage and possibly attacked Hilltop. That's why it was brash, but he went on the information that he had from Jesus and other Hilltopians(?) and decided that taking this chance was better for Alexandria as they needed food, and Hilltop had a lot of it.

The thing is, rescuing the hostage was a goal Rick & Maggie had. The deal they had with Hilltop didn't depend on his safety, Gregory had to be convinced by Maggie that bringing him back alive was something positive. I mean, the series tells us Morgan is a fool for trying to keep the Wolf leader alive despite the threat to his comrades, but Rick risking the lives of his people for someone he doesn't know is reasonable? Gregory didn't care about him. When did Rick decide this guy was more important to him than Glenn, or Daryl or Michonne getting killed because they didn't know what exactly they were facing?

Even if rescuing a hostage was the cause of rushing the attempt, the theme of the show meant they ought to have been punished for failing to be brutal enough (To hell with the hostage...what is Rick? Greenpeace?) and do the proper rec. The jarring thing is we have messages like Tyreese's death (one seconds inattention kills you in this new world...) and then we have Rick and some civilians taking on a larger number of brutal killers with little or no prep and they barely take a scratch in close quarters battle with automatic weapons with the villains doing incredibly stupid things like rushing into gunfire, not taking basic cover, etc etc. It just stinks of plot armour.

I just find it kicks me out of immersion in the show when the "rules" of the series flip from being harsh whatever-it-takes survivalism to fighting hordes of baddies who trained at the Imperial Stormtrooper school of marksmanship.

timthumbni

The sooner this show finishes the better. I still watch it but it's not essential viewing for me any more.

Just an endless cycle of ridiculous decisions that don't make sense. They launch a full assault on neagans hq for a truck load of supplies and food. I think I would just have doubled my efforts on the scavaging teams rather than risking all their lives on another A team style attack. America is a big place and they really like their food. The whole thing about ricks group being like crack commandos is frankly stupid and if they are the best it's a very sad reflection on the other groups.

Ginger gi joe leaving Rosita was also unbelievable. She's too hot for anyone to leave her, especially that big ginger ape. I like the way she dresses like Lara croft.

As for the trick of smelling like zombies protecting them whilst walking amongst them, why don't they all carry a smelly zombie jacket everywhere with them when they are out checking out warehouses etc.

Carl's hair really pisses me off too. In fact so does the fact that Carl keeps breathing.

Is this not the last season anyway? Or are they going to drag it out for more? I think it should end with Rick getting bitten and turning into a zombie. Then he forms his own gang of zombies that have weapons skills and they kill his old friends. The final shot should be Rick holding Carl's severed head by his dopey hair and laughing manically whilst saying "I told you to cut your hair, CARL"

A Neurotic

timthumbni wrote:

The final shot should be Rick holding Carl's severed head by his dopey hair and laughing manically whilst saying "I told you to cut your hair, CARL"

Obvious comic reader, spoilers FFS.

Walter E GO

7

timthumbni wrote: »

The sooner this show finishes the better. I still watch it but it's not essential viewing for me any more.

Just an endless cycle of ridiculous decisions that don't make sense. They launch a full assault on neagans hq for a truck load of supplies and food. I think I would just have doubled my efforts on the scavaging teams rather than risking all their lives on another A team style attack. America is a big place and they really like their food. The whole thing about ricks group being like crack commandos is frankly stupid and if they are the best it's a very sad reflection on the other groups.

Ginger gi joe leaving Rosita was also unbelievable. She's too hot for anyone to leave her, especially that big ginger ape. I like the way she dresses like Lara croft.

As for the trick of smelling like zombies protecting them whilst walking amongst them, why don't they all carry a smelly zombie jacket everywhere with them when they are out checking out warehouses etc.

Carl's hair really pisses me off too. In fact so does the fact that Carl keeps breathing.

Is this not the last season anyway? Or are they going to drag it out for more? I think it should end with Rick getting bitten and turning into a zombie. Then he forms his own gang of zombies that have weapons skills and they kill his old friends. The final shot should be Rick holding Carl's severed head by his dopey hair and laughing manically whilst saying "I told you to cut your hair, CARL"

I think you should get off the fence and tell us what you really think. :rolleyes:

The Talking Bread

8

timthumbni wrote: »

The sooner this show finishes the better. I still watch it but it's not essential viewing for me any more.

Just an endless cycle of ridiculous decisions that don't make sense. They launch a full assault on neagans hq for a truck load of supplies and food. I think I would just have doubled my efforts on the scavaging teams rather than risking all their lives on another A team style attack. America is a big place and they really like their food. The whole thing about ricks group being like crack commandos is frankly stupid and if they are the best it's a very sad reflection on the other groups.

Ginger gi joe leaving Rosita was also unbelievable. She's too hot for anyone to leave her, especially that big ginger ape. I like the way she dresses like Lara croft.

As for the trick of smelling like zombies protecting them whilst walking amongst them, why don't they all carry a smelly zombie jacket everywhere with them when they are out checking out warehouses etc.

Carl's hair really pisses me off too. In fact so does the fact that Carl keeps breathing.

Is this not the last season anyway? Or are they going to drag it out for more? I think it should end with Rick getting bitten and turning into a zombie. Then he forms his own gang of zombies that have weapons skills and they kill his old friends. The final shot should be Rick holding Carl's severed head by his dopey hair and laughing manically whilst saying "I told you to cut your hair, CARL"

If a show drove me this insane and i procured no enjoyment whatsoever from it I really wouldnt watch it. It has a massive ever increasing FAN base so sadly for you and your habit of sadistic tv series viewing it aint going nowhere for at least two more further series i anticipate!

Critical opinion is great and necessary but downright negativity would force me to switch to tone of the ever increasing number of tv series out there!

timthumbni

The Talking Bread wrote: »

If a show drove me this insane and i procured no enjoyment whatsoever from it I really wouldnt watch it. It has a massive ever increasing FAN base so sadly for you and your habit of sadistic tv series viewing it aint going nowhere for at least two more further series i anticipate!

Critical opinion is great and necessary but downright negativity would force me to switch to tone of the ever increasing number of tv series out there!

Well I didn't mean to sound that overly serious. I really liked the show and concept from the start. (I was a big zombie movie fan when I was a cub) Like nearly all shows it imo is just starting to drag a wee bit. Though I still think it's better than 90% of the other tv programmes hence why I still watch it.

I like the character of Rick, Daryl, loved Merle, Hershel and the governor when they were in it. Also like Rosita as the resident evil style eye candy.

Yes, I dislike the character of Carl. But I would have thought that was quite normal in any show for fans to like some characters and not like others.

So is this season not the last one I take it?

Collie D

9

Finally watched this episode and really enjoyed it. Some humorous moments, tension, good action, a shift from a group trying to survive to one capable of cold-blooded murder that has been building for a while and a cliffhanger.

For those who think the group and Rick in particular keep making bad or rash decisions - and to be fair I can see their point in a way - the show would be a bit boring if they always made smart choices and played it safe. Bad decisions create the action. Creating Skynet was an incredibly bad decision in Terminator but that movie would have been pretty **** without the evil self-aware machines

mzungu

8

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's also obvious that it was only an outpost, no signs of living there. Just weed and guns. And a crew that small would not pose as big a threat as the Hilltopians were suggesting. Also, gun toting, scripture reading Gabriel for the win! That's the only time religion is cool (on tv), when people are using it right when they're killing (like Boondock Saints, which also stars Daryl!).

Bigtime! He has done sweet FA the past couple of seasons, but with this new Gabriel is starting to come of age. Let he that is without sin, start to kick some ass. :P

It also reminded me of Cheech!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry-T-iviEuM

sonofenoch

timthumbni wrote: »

The sooner this show finishes the better. I still watch it but it's not essential viewing for me any more.

Just an endless cycle of ridiculous decisions that don't make sense. They launch a full assault on neagans hq for a truck load of supplies and food. I think I would just have doubled my efforts on the scavaging teams rather than risking all their lives on another A team style attack. America is a big place and they really like their food. The whole thing about ricks group being like crack commandos is frankly stupid and if they are the best it's a very sad reflection on the other groups.

Ginger gi joe leaving Rosita was also unbelievable. She's too hot for anyone to leave her, especially that big ginger ape. I like the way she dresses like Lara croft.

As for the trick of smelling like zombies protecting them whilst walking amongst them, why don't they all carry a smelly zombie jacket everywhere with them when they are out checking out warehouses etc.

Carl's hair really pisses me off too. In fact so does the fact that Carl keeps breathing.

Is this not the last season anyway? Or are they going to drag it out for more? I think it should end with Rick getting bitten and turning into a zombie. Then he forms his own gang of zombies that have weapons skills and they kill his old friends. The final shot should be Rick holding Carl's severed head by his dopey hair and laughing manically whilst saying "I told you to cut your hair, CARL"

You were going well till the talking zombie bit....then it got silly

MarkR

When ginger joe and pal were trying to open the door, I was thinking it was going to be like a nursery or something. I was convinced that one of the killings would wake up a sleeping child. No shades of gray here anyway. Maybe next week.

I did like the assault on the satellite station, it was very smooth and quiet. Just surprised by the current lack of collateral damage or consequences.

And I think 100% that's going to be a sub-group of the gang. Had to remind myself how Daryl lost his cool mad max bike. That couple he tried to help. Wonder will we see those guys again? Daryl will be boxing the guy....

Don't get me started on the Maggie and Carol having a tiff while the others are going seal team zero!

Wonder will Maggie play the pregnancy card with the women, or will it even matter?