Premier League the best league in the world?

larchielads

Omackeral wrote: »

It's gas that people think the Premiership is our league! The above makes no sense.

Why doesn't it? Do u think the Germans think their league is the best? Or the Spanish think theirs is or Italians think theirs is?
I know it's not our league but we follow it just as much as the English do.

gormdubhgorm

larchielads wrote: »

Why doesn't it? Do u think the Germans think their league is the best? Or the Spanish think theirs is or Italians think theirs is?
I know it's not our league but we follow it just as much as the English do.

I think the poster means that in paper the League of Ireland is Ireland's League.

gormdubhgorm

I was thinking is it more then a geographical thing that Irish soccer people mostly follow the premier league?
Is it the simple fact that we speak English and are more tuned into the premier leagues message?
For example there are Irish people who sing football chants with English accents. For example chants about "Stevie g" or "who are ya, who are ya".
If we spoke Spanish in Ireland (pretend the Armada landed) would la liga be "the best league in the world"?
Irish fans would be singing more then olé olé!?

~Rebel~

Omackeral wrote: »

I'm not disputing that. My only issue was with the poster saying most people hadn't a club to follow. The majority do. Everyone in Dublin feasibly does. Everyone in a city does actually so Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford are all covered. That's most of the population right there. That's without including the bigger towns like Drogheda, Dundalk and Sligo.

To an extent, but for example I grew up in the countryside in Cork. I was genuinely never even really aware Cork City FC existed until I was around 12 years old. Soccer was the thing we played in the field in school and watched on TV in England. Football and Hurling were the things you actively went to. It's an added factor that noone else in my family had any interest in soccer, but all were into GAA. So weirdly as a result Cork GAA is what I most identify with as a local sporting thing, while Liverpool was the first soccer team I identified with long before I became aware of Cork City FC as an entity.

I still went to loads of Cork City games as I got older incidentally, but weirdly never formed that same bond with the team that I did with GAA and Liverpool.

gormdubhgorm

~Rebel~ wrote: »

To an extent, but for example I grew up in the countryside in Cork. I was genuinely never even really aware Cork City FC existed until I was around 12 years old. Soccer was the thing we played in the field in school and watched on TV in England. Football and Hurling were the things you actively went to. It's an added factor that noone else in my family had any interest in soccer, but all were into GAA. So weirdly as a result Cork GAA is what I most identify with as a local sporting thing, while Liverpool was the first soccer team I identified with long before I became aware of Cork City FC as an entity.

I still went to loads of Cork City games as I got older incidentally, but weirdly never formed that same bond with the team that I did with GAA and Liverpool.

I hope the FAI and John Delaney print off your post and stick it on a wall.
Young fellas don't even know LOI exists?!!
They are not even on the radar. Which means their marketing and impact on young kids is a disaster!
In fairness to the FAI they are up against the English marketing hype machine and the GAA who don't have to market, but it still sounds crazy.
The FAI should be subsiding clubs so they can let crowds in free once a month to drum up interest particularly for under 12s/10s.

~Rebel~

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I hope the FAI and John Delaney print off your post and stick it on a wall.
Young fellas don't even know LOI exists?!!
They are not even on the radar. Which means their marketing and impact on young kids is a disaster!
In fairness to the FAI they are up against the English marketing hype machine and the GAA who don't have to market, but it still sounds crazy.
The FAI should be subsiding clubs so they can let crowds in free once a month to drum up interest particularly for under 12s/10s.

This was 20 odd years ago, but yeah at the time that was the case. I've no idea if it still is for kids growing up in that area - I wouldn't be all that surprised if it was though.

Something like giving free tickets to kids in rural areas would work wonders i'd say. Just giving them the opportunity to go once to ignite the interest. I'd imagine enough of them will bug the parents to go back to be worth it for the clubs.

niallo27

Omackeral wrote: »

Most people would have a team within 35/40 mins of them I'd wager. Cut that to 20 mins if you live in Dublin or its environs. Football is very tribal the world over, just not here. We don't do week in and week out for the most part.

I was 10 or 11, what did you want me to do, cycle 2 hours into limerick with my pocket money. My father was a GAA man he was never going to bring me.

niallo27

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I hope the FAI and John Delaney print off your post and stick it on a wall.
Young fellas don't even know LOI exists?!!
They are not even on the radar. Which means their marketing and impact on young kids is a disaster!
In fairness to the FAI they are up against the English marketing hype machine and the GAA who don't have to market, but it still sounds crazy.
The FAI should be subsiding clubs so they can let crowds in free once a month to drum up interest particularly for under 12s/10s.

Why dont the GAA have to market though, young fellas probably prefer football to GAA but the LOI still gets ignored. Why is this

eagle eye

Omackeral wrote: »

I'm not disputing that. My only issue was with the poster saying most people hadn't a club to follow. The majority do. Everyone in Dublin feasibly does. Everyone in a city does actually so Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford are all covered. That's most of the population right there. That's without including the bigger towns like Drogheda, Dundalk and Sligo.

Saying you don't have a team close enough to support is a funny excuse though when you take into account they'll support a team from even further away, in another country. I get why they do it, there's just a certain irony!

Let's take GAA for a minute. Do you think that any Dublin GAA fan would shout for Meath to win an All-Ireland if Dublin were out of the competition. There is not a chance of that happening, they would actually shout for Donegal, Antrim, Cork or Waterford before Meath.

So if there is an FAI team in a neighboring county you are not going to support them. It's much easier to support a team in Manchester or Liverpool or London than it is a team from a county you have been reared to dislike where sport is concerned.

Paz-CCFC

Wouldn't international rivalry be along the same lines as county rivalry? I wouldn't think that someone who'd be so obsessed by county borders would just gladly support one of "dem across de water".

niallo27

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

Wouldn't international rivalry be along the same lines as county rivalry? I wouldn't think that someone who'd be so obsessed by county borders would just gladly support one of "dem across de water".

Why would it be, what did the english ever do to me, as for for tipp lads.

Flint Fredstone

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

It's just a cliché now though. "Best league in the world" is mockingly rolled out after every match that is in any way lacking in goals or action.
It's a recurring topic of conversation on this forum across numerous threads.

I didn't mean any offence, just expressing my disdain for the topic.
On and it's Flint not Fred, nobody seems to be able to grasp that :pac:

Ehhem

Flint Fredstone

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Ehhem

Except you of course Michael.

Bounty Hunter

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Do people actually believe this? It is constantly peddled on Sky and the English channels.
The latest unpredictability of this years league is now being turned into a positive saying this is why the Premier League is the best league in the world!

Are they getting the word "exciting" confused with "best"?

If the premier league is the best league in the world how come this is not proven in Europe?
Since 1999
Chelsea won a Europa League (injury time goal against Benfica) and shock penalty shootout win (against Bayern Munich) in the CL .
Manchester united were extremely fortunate to win the European Cup both on a pen shootout (Chelsea) and last minute goals (Bayern Munich).
Liverpool won a game in 2005 from 3 goals down (AC Milan) by some miracle. At the start of the tournament they were complete outsiders.

Where does this best league in the world idea come from?
If it is the best league in the world shouldn't the best teams be major forces in Europe and not having to get by with fortunate wins?

Given the premier leagues financial clout shouldn't they be doing a lot better?

This is how this thread started... Why are people talking about the GAA etc

I do personally think the EPL is the best based on the standard of all 20 teams when compared to all 20 teams in the German, Spanish or Italian leagues as those are the ones usually as part of the conversation although the big teams like Munich, Barca, Madrid etc are a good bit ahead of their English counterparts.

Korat

I wonder what effect Britain leaving the EU would have on the Premier League.

One of the most popular reasons for Britain leaving is controlling cheap foreign labour coming for the EU. This would likely mean restrictions on EU footballers playing in the UK. They'd need work permits just like non-EU players and the Bosman ruling would no longer be binding for the UK.

It could be a good thing for lower division clubs, purging crap continental players and bringing through more local talent but depending on what kind of relationship the UK agrees with the EU it may not be good for the big clubs. If the split is acrimonious and Britain is seen as a competitor rather than a partner then trade barriers could affect football too.

SlickRic

I think the Premier League is fúcking great.

I grew up in the 80s and early 90s, and football was the first sport I loved. It was on TV, and it was like a TV show I enjoyed watching. I chose Liverpool as my club, and the narrative for the TV show was set. Liverpool were my heroes, and I would be pulling for them.

Of course, other narratives popped up over the course of the last 20 odd years. Underdog stories (like this season with Leicester). The evil Manchester United winning everything while my heroes suffered. Arsenal's Invincibles. Mourinho as a new antagonist.

I'm not going to pretend that the Premier League is the 'best league in the world'. How do you even fúcking define that anyway?

It's like my favourite TV show or soap opera. I consume the Premier League. Now, there are other great TV shows, like the Bundesliga, La Liga or Serie A. For a time, I really enjoyed Serie A (ah...Channel 4 and James Richardson). I sometimes catch La Liga, or even the Bundesliga.

But the Premier League is where it started, and will always be with me.

It's my favourite programme.

And if that makes me a 'barstooler', honestly, I don't give a fúck.

garra

You could say that the difference in income between the "haves" and "have-nots" is less in the EPL (than Spain for instance) due to the collective bargaining of the EPL versus La Liga's "each man for himself" TV money arrangement. Therefore it is more possible for a small club (eg Leicester) to compete in EPL.

A more equitable league makes for a more exciting league, notwithstanding the fact that the quality of the top teams in La Liga or Bundesleague or even Serie A might be better than the top teams in Premier League.

Paz-CCFC

Korat wrote: »

I wonder what effect Britain leaving the EU would have on the Premier League.

One of the most popular reasons for Britain leaving is controlling cheap foreign labour coming for the EU. This would likely mean restrictions on EU footballers playing in the UK. They'd need work permits just like non-EU players and the Bosman ruling would no longer be binding for the UK.

What essentially became the Bosman ruling has been law in England and Wales since the 60s, from the case of Eastham v Newcastle United. They'd also still be members of UEFA and FIFA. A lot of the transfer regulations in FIFA are based on EU law, as the EU were powerful enough to spread their influence across world football. FIFA basically had the choice to implement EU law across all their member nations or keep with the status quo and allow the severance of the EU nations - who happened to be among the more powerful. So, as far as certain EU measures go, the UK FAs would have to abide by them despite it not being the law of their land or else withdraw from UEFA/FIFA, which is unlikely. The work permit issues would still come into play, as you say. Although, I can't imagine the UK state refusing entry to players on seven figure salaries. That has to be a huge earner via income tax.

I wonder what effect it'd have on Irish fans going over (circa 100,000 a year), if border checks were put in place. Would it have a negligible effect on weekend visits, as short-term visas mightn't be too hard to get? Would it increase travel costs overall? Would it benefit attendances at home (unlikely, imo), would more Irish fans travel to other EU leagues or would they simply be content to just watch on telly more?

I wonder how it'd affect Derry City in the League of Ireland, as well. I'd think that Ireland would be more lenient towards Northerners travelling down, as we'd still recognise them as Irish, but it might cause problems for fans of the other teams travelling to Derry.

I don't think that the UK will actually exit from the EU, but it's an interesting discussion nonetheless.

NIMAN

garra wrote: »

Therefore it is more possible for a small club (eg Leicester) to compete in EPL

No its not for 99% of the time. Leicester this season are a Total fluke, maybe aided by the fact that the so-called big teams are rubbish.

Don't forget Leicester were very nearly relegated last season.

There are very few recent examples, apart from Leicester, of small teams competing at the top of the EPL. For many seasons recently it was either going to be won by man Utd or Chelsea. Then city appeared in the scene, and there were 3 possible winners. People always mentioned arsenal and Liverpool and spurs but they had little chance of actually winning it, so don't be fooled that it was a really open championship. It was often a 2 or 3 horse race, like most leagues.

Of course sky would have you believe otherwise.

gormdubhgorm

niallo27 wrote: »

Why dont the GAA have to market though, young fellas probably prefer football to GAA but the LOI still gets ignored. Why is this

I think it is because the GAA have been very intelligent and used the Parrish system. They then entwined the clubs with the Parrishes. Then the clubs are used to form the basis for the county.
There is a fierce loyalty among GAA people. Particularly in rural areas. The GAA clubs mean everything people live and breathe it. They identify with the teams it is part of them.
The LOI does not manage to create the same level of loyalty. The same group of players seem to move around to other clubs every year on free transfers. How can people feel they belong to that?
The LOI wasted thier opportunity in the 50's when huge crowds used to follow the likes of Drumcondra. There was no expertise to manage it properly and they made a mess of it. Shamrock rovers were nomads for years. The money that Bohs were supposed to get if they sold thier ground fell through.
The FAI's grand plan for selling to the corporate world fell flat when the recession hit. Which meant a lot of unsold boxes in the AVIVA/Lansdowne. By the way the lease will revert to the IRFU when it is up. And the FAI will not own a national stadium again). One calamity after another by the FAI and I did not even mention Sepp Blatter yet!
Instead the razzmatazz of the English premiership still fills the void for the majority of soccer people who need to find a club they"belong" to. But they don't really belong do they? They are just numbers through the turnstiles for eilte English clubs.

gormdubhgorm

By the way I remember when Italian Soccer highlights used to be screened on channel 4 in the early 90s.
The Italian league really did seem the "best in the world". Better then that they won the European competition's (on a regular basis to prove it) AC Millan/Parma etc. Magic stuff exotic names and accents. I can see why young fella can get hooked into other leagues that are not from thier own country.

Donnielighto

Just on united being lucky against Chelsea in Moscow, doesn't really back up your point since theyvwere playing pl competition anyway. Hay year nobody nlknocked out pl teams other than other pl teams in the cl

garra

NIMAN wrote: »

No its not for 99% of the time. Leicester this season are a Total fluke, maybe aided by the fact that the so-called big teams are rubbish.

Don't forget Leicester were very nearly relegated last season.

There are very few recent examples, apart from Leicester, of small teams competing at the top of the EPL. For many seasons recently it was either going to be won by man Utd or Chelsea. Then city appeared in the scene, and there were 3 possible winners. People always mentioned arsenal and Liverpool and spurs but they had little chance of actually winning it, so don't be fooled that it was a really open championship. It was often a 2 or 3 horse race, like most leagues.

Of course sky would have you believe otherwise.

I suppose I am including tottenham amongst small clubs too

In Spain could you see Getafe versus Malaga vying for la liga? At least the epl has fostered a "fluke", and is all the better for it. Spanish league won 20 times by Barca/Real in last 30 years.

Dirty Dingus McGee

garra wrote: »

I suppose I am including tottenham amongst small clubs too

In Spain could you see Getafe versus Malaga vying for la liga? At least the epl has fostered a "fluke", and is all the better for it. Spanish league won 20 times by Barca/Real in last 30 years.

that's because La Liga is the most difficult competition to win, Leicester wouldn't get close to winning it either.

Leicester being in contention actually shows how down on it's usual standard the EPL has been this year.They wouldn't get close to winning any of the other major European leagues because the top teams wouldn't let them.

garra

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

that's because La Liga is the most difficult competition to win, Leicester wouldn't get close to winning it either.

Leicester being in contention actually shows how down on it's usual standard the EPL has been this year.They wouldn't get close to winning any of the other major European leagues because the top teams wouldn't let them.

There is plenty of "quality" football every weekend in epl, it's just not all played by the same teams every week.. this makes it more exciting, ergo a better league even without - or maybe due to the lack of - teams with consistently high level of performances in recent years (or what you would call "quality" I suppose).

You're point about Leicester not being able to win La Liga is exactly the point I am making too.. the epl is better for not being as homogenous.

Dirty Dingus McGee

garra wrote: »

There is plenty of "quality" football every weekend in epl, it's just not all played by the same teams every week.. this makes it more exciting, ergo a better league even without - or maybe due to the lack of - teams with consistently high level of performances in recent years (or what you would call "quality" I suppose).

You're point about Leicester not being able to win La Liga is exactly the point I am making too.. the epl is better for not being as homogenous.

That all depends on what you like.The premier league isn't that open either.3 teams have won it in the last 10 years (same as La Liga) although a 4th are likely to win it this year.Leicester are in contention because by the premier leagues own standards it has slipped this season, they wouldn't have got close to winning it any other year.It's not an achievement for the EPL for Leicester to be in contention it's mainly down to incompetence from other teams.

thebaz

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

That all depends on what you like.The premier league isn't that open either.3 teams have won it in the last 10 years (same as La Liga) although a 4th are likely to win it this year.Leicester are in contention because by the premier leagues own standards it has slipped this season, they wouldn't have got close to winning it any other year.It's not an achievement for the EPL for Leicester to be in contention it's mainly down to incompetence from other teams.

When you look at the resources and the size of clubs like Man Utd and City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool and Chelsea - even Newcastle and Spurs - what Leicester have achieved this year is truly amazing on a shoestring.
The relegation of 3 teams does the league no favours , quality wise , creates too much Fear , which is reflected in English players at major Championships. Also the esteem Tony Pullis is held in with his anti-football approach does no favours to a more progressive game.

astonaidan

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

that's because La Liga is the most difficult competition to win, Leicester wouldn't get close to winning it either.

Leicester being in contention actually shows how down on it's usual standard the EPL has been this year.They wouldn't get close to winning any of the other major European leagues because the top teams wouldn't let them.

Didnt Deportivo win it in recent enough history, in 2000 if I remember correctly, they arent a historically massive team, a small team can come out of nowhere in any league, the only one that doesnt jump to my mind recently is Italy, its happened in Germany and France and looks to happen in England this year. If you are trying to say its easy to win the Premier League, you are not only wrong you are being down right stupid

cowboyBuilder

I honestly feel sorry for Real Madrid, they have to deal with Barca on 3 fronts, for them there is no competition at all, they will get 2nd place - at best - in any cup/league.

At least the rest of Europe doesn't have to deal with them outside UCL.

Dirty Dingus McGee

astonaidan wrote: »

Didnt Deportivo win it in recent enough history, in 2000 if I remember correctly, they arent a historically massive team, a small team can come out of nowhere in any league, the only one that doesnt jump to my mind recently is Italy, its happened in Germany and France and looks to happen in England this year. If you are trying to say its easy to win the Premier League, you are not only wrong you are being down right stupid

I didn't say it was easy.

I said it was easier right now than winning in Spain, Germany ,Italy and even France.

Each of those leagues has at least 1 outstanding team that would stop a mid ranking team having a brilliant year from winning it.

The premier league is in a down year this seaosn compared to it's usual standard.Leicester wouldnt ahve got close to being in conetneiton in most other years and certainly not from about 2002 - 2010.

CSF

Such a difficult question to answer. I don't think any Premier League team measures upto Barca, Real, Atletico, PSG or Bayern. Clearly the Premier League cannot profess to shape the elite of European football.

But both La Liga and the Bundesliga have levels that dip sharply. Who is there after Barca/Real/Atletico? A lazy argument says Sevilla but ignores that they've lost key players and now aren't that good anymore. Can't win an away game for love nor money. Valencia a well-publicised pretty poor side also.

Bundesliga much the same. Dortmund have re-asserted themselves as a strong side, and Wolfsburg are still good. Leverkusen and Monchengladbach aren't bad either but again the level drops hugely after this.

The Premier League benefits from the money in it. Where essentially mid-table sides can sign and keep the likes of Payet and Lukaku. The Premier League has a much stronger base of essentially good teams. Leicester, Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Man United, Liverpool, West Ham, Everton.

We can argue the specifics of individual teams all day long and opinions will vary but I'd be surprised to hear arguments that the base of 'good' teams in the Premier League is higher than anywhere else. If we consider Everton the 9th best Premier League team then I don't buy you could find a better one in another league. The spending power just doesn't allow it.

I think this immediately puts the Premier League above the Bundesliga, given the Bundesliga only has one elite team with a real chance of winning the big one, relative to England arguably having none. Whereas La Liga has 3 which I think makes the discussion a difficult one.

I'd probably edge La Liga to be honest based on those 3 teams being so good that England could probably only hope to have one side in the top 4 of a combined league. The bottom 15 of the Premier League is unquestionably streets ahead of the bottom 15 of La Liga though. It's not even close.

astonaidan

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I didn't say it was easy.

I said it was easier right now than winning in Spain, Germany ,Italy and even France.

Each of those leagues has at least 1 outstanding team that would stop a mid ranking team having a brilliant year from winning it.

The premier league is in a down year this seaosn compared to it's usual standard.Leicester wouldnt ahve got close to being in conetneiton in most other years and certainly not from about 2002 - 2010.

I know what your saying but as recent as Montpelier winning in France shows its done. I don't think England is having that much a dip look at the players mid table players signed from the top teams in France for example. Sometimes teams just have a amazing season, doesn't often last which is the problem just ask Alaves in Spain, remember the good old days of Moreno and Contra and the magical run till Liverpool beat them. Next year will be the year Leicester will have to spend massive they aren't a surprise any more and their players will be targeted by the super powers don't be surprised if Drinkwater goes back to United. Think Mahrez and Vardy will stay though. But I find people rate leagues on the top teams wrong, outside of PSG, Barca, Bayern, Juve and two Madrid teams the teams in each league would all be pretty muchness. Example Verona Villa match could go each way

NIMAN

Current Bundesliga v EPL battle is very one-sided.

CSF

NIMAN wrote: »

Current Bundesliga v EPL battle is very one-sided.

Lots of players rested for one of those teams. Would have been a genuinely interesting tie (I'd still fancy Dortmund) if both teams had gone full on for it.

CSF

astonaidan wrote: »

I know what your saying but as recent as Montpelier winning in France shows its done. I don't think England is having that much a dip look at the players mid table players signed from the top teams in France for example. Sometimes teams just have a amazing season, doesn't often last which is the problem just ask Alaves in Spain, remember the good old days of Moreno and Contra and the magical run till Liverpool beat them. Next year will be the year Leicester will have to spend massive they aren't a surprise any more and their players will be targeted by the super powers don't be surprised if Drinkwater goes back to United. Think Mahrez and Vardy will stay though. But I find people rate leagues on the top teams wrong, outside of PSG, Barca, Bayern, Juve and two Madrid teams the teams in each league would all be pretty muchness. Example Verona Villa match could go each way

Can't agree with that. As bad as Villa are I think they'd be doing Hellas Verona pretty handy.

Dirty Dingus McGee

CSF wrote: »

Such a difficult question to answer. I don't think any Premier League team measures upto Barca, Real, Atletico, PSG or Bayern. Clearly the Premier League cannot profess to shape the elite of European football.

But both La Liga and the Bundesliga have levels that dip sharply. Who is there after Barca/Real/Atletico? A lazy argument says Sevilla but ignores that they've lost key players and now aren't that good anymore. Can't win an away game for love nor money. Valencia a well-publicised pretty poor side also.

Bundesliga much the same. Dortmund have re-asserted themselves as a strong side, and Wolfsburg are still good. Leverkusen and Monchengladbach aren't bad either but again the level drops hugely after this.

The Premier League benefits from the money in it. Where essentially mid-table sides can sign and keep the likes of Payet and Lukaku. The Premier League has a much stronger base of essentially good teams. Leicester, Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Man United, Liverpool, West Ham, Everton.

We can argue the specifics of individual teams all day long and opinions will vary but I'd be surprised to hear arguments that the base of 'good' teams in the Premier League is higher than anywhere else. If we consider Everton the 9th best Premier League team then I don't buy you could find a better one in another league. The spending power just doesn't allow it.

I think this immediately puts the Premier League above the Bundesliga, given the Bundesliga only has one elite team with a real chance of winning the big one, relative to England arguably having none. Whereas La Liga has 3 which I think makes the discussion a difficult one.

I'd probably edge La Liga to be honest based on those 3 teams being so good that England could probably only hope to have one side in the top 4 of a combined league. The bottom 15 of the Premier League is unquestionably streets ahead of the bottom 15 of La Liga though. It's not even close.

English teams massively overspend on players and because of their extra finance are now paying a premium on any player they buy and a lot of players in the EPL are massively overrated in my opinion.


If Spanish teams outside the elite 3 are so poor why have they constantly out performed the English teams in the Europa League this decade which is a competition between the non elite teams of each European league.

CSF

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

English teams massively overspend on players and because of their extra finance are now paying a premium on any player they buy and a lot of players in the EPL are massively overrated in my opinion.


If Spanish teams outside the elite 3 are so poor why have they constantly out performed the English teams in the Europa League this decade which is a competition between the non elite teams of each European league.

English teams do pay a premium for players. But they're still in a position to sign players that mid-table clubs (in stature as well as current league position) in any other league couldn't really hope to.

The Europa League isn't a great measure of anything and won't be until teams start to take it seriously. West Ham and Southampton didn't even bother fielding a first team to qualify for it, and Tottenham haven't really treated it with much respect tonight.

We can judge that whatever way we want, but until teams start treating the competition seriously throughout, I don't think it tells much other than which teams actually wanted to win it.

astonaidan

CSF wrote: »

Can't agree with that. As bad as Villa are I think they'd be doing Hellas Verona pretty handy.

Nah I watch Verona a bit and dont have that confidence at all, they have players who can score we just dont. I really think it would go any way

astonaidan

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

English teams massively overspend on players and because of their extra finance are now paying a premium on any player they buy and a lot of players in the EPL are massively overrated in my opinion.


If Spanish teams outside the elite 3 are so poor why have they constantly out performed the English teams in the Europa League this decade which is a competition between the non elite teams of each European league.

The europa league has been stated on here already, English teams dont take it serious, someone said a european league cup has been mentioned I dont agree but its how they view it. I remember wanting to kill Martin O'Neill when he did it against CSKA, I really fancied us then he did what he did

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/7900035.stm

CSF

astonaidan wrote: »

Nah I watch Verona a bit and dont have that confidence at all, they have players who can score we just dont. I really think it would go any way

They've only scored 2 goals more than Villa, one of the worst teams in Premier League history. Not having it.

Dirty Dingus McGee

astonaidan wrote: »

The europa league has been stated on here already, English teams dont take it serious, someone said a european league cup has been mentioned I dont agree but its how they view it. I remember wanting to kill Martin O'Neill when he did it against CSKA, I really fancied us then he did what he did

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/7900035.stm

I think they have began to show a little more respect for it in the last few years in fairess. Everton went all out to win it last year.

CSF

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I think they have began to show a little more respect for it in the last few years in fairess. Everton went all out to win it last year.

West Ham and Southampton fielded 2nd string teams because they weren't arsed getting through the qualifiers of it. Tottenham haven't treated it with much respect tonight either. Liverpool had been treating it without the highest level of interest throughout the group stages also. It generally isn't treated very seriously in England. Every once in a while you have an exception to that rule but it isn't often.

TheCitizen

Was watching Borussia Dortmund tonight. Spurs disgracefully sent out a 2nd string but that aside the way Dortmund play out from the back through the press, Barca among others do this as well, there's no-one in England producing that sort of quality. Klopp would probably like his Liverpool side to do it but they just don't have the quality. The EPL is more competitive, but if you're looking for quality, you find more of it in Germany and Spain.

astonaidan

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I think they have began to show a little more respect for it in the last few years in fairess. Everton went all out to win it last year.

They dont really though, maybe one team will try but in general, sadly contempt is the best way to describe the view towards it. How often teams would rather struggle in mid table than try win it is madness but its what happens, they rather have a fresh first 11 for weekend games, I think Liverpool will go for it this year so like 1/6 teams want to win it shows how its rated. Where all the Spanish/Italian teams want to win it

astonaidan

CSF wrote: »

They've only scored 2 goals more than Villa, one of the worst teams in Premier League history. Not having it.

Luca Toni has been injured most of the season, only back maybe a month ago, he was top scorer in Seria A last year

CSF

astonaidan wrote: »

Luca Toni has been injured most of the season, only back maybe a month ago, he was top scorer in Seria A last year

Unfortunately he is also almost 39 so him not playing alot is going to be a thing of the future.

astonaidan

CSF wrote: »

Unfortunately he is also almost 39 so him not playing alot is going to be a thing of the future.

Yes, but Im saying a fully fit Villa against a fully fit Verona and I dont think the difference is mad.

gormdubhgorm

If Leicester did play in La Liga for argument's sake (assume there was no cultural barriers) would they be able to play such intensive a style especially when the weather gets warmer? I think they would struggle because the other teams will just keep ball.

CSF

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

If Leicester did play in La Liga for argument's sake (assume there was no cultural barriers) would they be able to play such intensive a style especially when the weather gets warmer? I think they would struggle because the other teams will just keep ball.

Tbh, I think it goes without saying that each league would do better in the weather they're accustomed to.

Dirty Dingus McGee

CSF wrote: »

Tbh, I think it goes without saying that each league would do better in the weather they're accustomed to.

I would imagine it is much more of an adjustment moving from cold to warm than the other way around.

It's one of the reasons I think England fail in international tournaments as their players are used to playing at high intensity in cold/mild weather but usually the weather in international tournaments is quite hot and doesn't suit that and England don't seem to be able to play well if they aren't going at it at 100%.