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DMR or Yaesu Fusion
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07-03-2016 11:12pm#1
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Wow that's a complicated question. It deserves a complicated answer
Because I don't think there is one mode that is 'the best' at anything.
From the 3 currently major digital modes, each has (in my view) their pros and cons. Of these I've used only D-Star and DMR regularly and I have radios for both.
D-Star (You didn't mention it but I thought I'd include it as it is the oldest ham digital voice mode) is the most mature in terms of network. At the start there was only Icom's network and repeaters but since the homebrew scene came online some 'fights' occurred in terms of competing unconnected networks and repeater styles (REF, XREF, DCS etc). This seems to be mostly over now, resulting in most repeaters being able to talk to each other. But the cons are the single-vendor setup (*) with high pricing for handsets/mobiles and early codec that isn't as good as the other modes. Also, D-Star lacks a dedicated voice-only and data-only mode, requiring an operator to 'kerchunk' the entire reflector just to transmit a DPRS beacon. The protocol is said to be 'open source' but the only specs available are a single page with some ambiguous remarks. It has been fully reverse engineered now however, excluding the voice codec of course. D-Star has full callsign routing (even international, it will route your call to the 'last seen' repeater) but you do need to register your call with proof of license before your callsign is accepted. This is an easy process however.
DMR really shines with its two TDMA channels (a feature which C4FM is slated to have in the future but will never offer on currently-selling radios). This way one operator can join a worldwide reflector while another group can have their local skeg, all at the same time. It doesn't really have a dedicated data mode but it does offer text messaging which d-star doesn't really. Another benefit is that it is truly multi-vendor: Not just Kenwood and Motorola like you mentioned but also Hytera and some Chinese manufacturers are available, which means low prices. The network seems to be medium-mature: There are still 2 main competing networks: Brandmeister and MARC (Motorola) which do not interconnect. Perhaps in other countries than the ones I know about the situation may be different. A drawback of DMR though is the fact that it was built for business radio, and as such does not allow callsign routing. Therefore the IDs as you mentioned are a built-in limitation of the system. There is an international registration database where you can sign up for a DMR ID and you can import your local country's callsign database into your radio so you can see the callsigns, but for many radio models the built-in callbook is too small for the entire country's worth when the mode really takes off.
Another substantial drawback of DMR is the fact that you can never program the radios from the front panel and they have no VFO: Everything must be done through the programming software. This is also a result of the business origins of this mode: Most national regulators prohibit business users being able to change frequencies etc on their radios. The business origins are also the cause of almost all DMR radios being exclusively single band (after all, few business users have allocations in multiple different bands)
One thing worth mentioning is that the firmware for one of the Chinese models has been cracked recently, which will probably lead to a lot of useful features on these models. There's already an unofficial 'scanning' feature available now (listening to 'any' DMR talkgroup without having the right IDs programmed). I think this offers some very interesting future possibilities, perhaps even multi-digital mode radios.
Finally there's C4FM Fusion. Currently with 1 concurrent call, in the future with TMDA dual channel. Fusion is the latest kid on the block, and was designed with HAM radio in mind, and as such has taken some pointers from the failures of its predecessors. But it has the most immature network, even Yaesu's own Wires-X is only in its infancy. Some other design choices are causing some issues: Such as the ability for a repeater to function in both FM Analog and digital mode. This apparently can't be turned off on the repeater side and causes regulatory difficulties in some countries (the Netherlands I know of in particular) due to the band plans having exclusive allocations for digital voice and analog repeaters. I personally also feel there's little benefit to it: While you can communicate with FM users, it does mean FM users are left in the cold when digital users are speaking among each other. I like radios being able to do dual-mode but the repeater not so much. Of course this is a matter of opinion.
It does have data-only, data+voice and voice-only mode, the latter using extra bandwidth for better voice quality. Which is very beneficial, if you've ever worked DMR or D-Star you'll know what I mean So that's a real plus in my opinion. Another plus is the inclusion of APRS functionality in most C4FM radios which is nice. They also have text messaging over C4FM worked out pretty well as far as I can see.
What's really stopping me from getting a C4FM radio is the lack of repeaters: In the Netherlands they're not around due to the licensing issue being sorted out, and the Limerick one is very vague. I emailed the Limerick radio club to ask which one it concerns (2m or 70cm) and they never got back to me, I couldn't find anything about it online either. I don't think they have it hooked up to the internet either otherwise I would have been able to see it on the C4FM reflector dashboards.
The reason I did get the D-Star and DMR radios is that I'm often in the Netherlands and I can use them there on the extensive repeater infrastructures they have for these modes. D-Star was the most popular until about 1.5 years ago until the driving forces behind it moved to DMR. I use them in Ireland sometimes with hotspots (DV-MEGA) but I don't use them much as it doesn't feel like 'real' radio. There is no D-Star or DMR repeater anywhere in the republic as far as I'm aware, though the North has both. From where I'm based (Galway) I can't reach any of them.
Another thing that put me off a bit was that the features Yaesu chose to promote are a bit too gimmicky for me (like sending pictures with an expensive addon accessory mike). Yaesu seems to have a way of doing this, like the old WIRES and ARTS modes on old Yaesu FM handsets that only caused problems with digital data bursts on the local repeaters while adding nothing useful.
Please note that the current low price of some Yaesu C4FM Radios / Repeaters is purely because of a Yaesu promotion to gain marketshare, I'm sure it will not last forever. The FT-1D dropped to about 50% of its price recently and I'm sure this is not forever. If the mode really takes off I expect Yaesu will take full advantage of this being another single-vendor mode.
By the way I didn't mention the license encumbrance of these modes as they all suffer from it, they all use AMBE codecs from DVSI (AMBE2020 for D-Star and AMBE3000 for DMR and C4FM IIRC)
So in short, I don't think any of them is "best". They all have their pros and cons. I personally I have a hunch that eventually DMR will win out due to the availability of cheap Chinese and second hand business use handsets and the fairly open protocol. Hopefully the radio vendors will introduce more "Ham-Friendly" models with on-radio programming and VFOs if the mode really takes off.
By the way, here's that registration page for D-Star and DMR.
(*) Kenwood sold a D-Star radio at one stage but it was a rebadged ICOM so I count this as single vendor anyway 0 -
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thelordgod wrote: »The repeater is connected to the web via IRLP (analog) but the digital side is not. It may be in the future but it requires an internet connection on Tountinna. With so few using the repeater atm it's hard to justify spending money on an internet connection. Almost no-one uses IRLP on the Limerick repeater - 1 or 2 do on the Searg network.
That's true, IRLP was hardly used here either. But with digital it's more natural to use the linking. In my experience (with Dstar and DMR in the Netherlands) almost nobody would use digital on the local repeater only, because most of its added value comes from the linking. Without it the only big benefit is being able to see the callsign and position of who's talking. Most local traffic in the Netherlands is still on FM.
Most repeaters would default to a nationwide reflector or talkgroup (depending on the technology used) and can be relinked through a menu on the radio. They also support callsign to callsign calling (without having to know which repeater the called party is using). There's websites where you can view activity and listen live to the reflectors. So there's some real nice benefits to it. Of course though if its the only one in the country so far there's nobody to link to yet so you're right, there isn't much point yet.
And I understand the difficulty of getting internet onto a highsite. We've had the same problem at our local repeater. With some digital modes like D-Star it's possible to place the internet gateway elsewhere within range of the repeater and retain full functionality, but with DMR it's not. I presume it also isn't possible with C4FM fusion. I don't know enough about it.
Edit: thanks to you both for your answers by the way! I'm still debating whether to get a radio. They all have APRS too which is a nice bonus, I've always wanted to have that in the car. But I think I might leave it for now A mobile which I'd want the most is still fairly expensive if you add up the extras like the remote head kit. But if C4FM takes off in Ireland I'll get one. 0 -
GekkePrutser wrote: »That's true, IRLP was hardly used here either. But with digital it's more natural to use the linking. In my experience (with Dstar and DMR in the Netherlands) almost nobody would use digital on the local repeater only, because most of its added value comes from the linking. Without it the only big benefit is being able to see the callsign and position of who's talking. Most local traffic in the Netherlands is still on FM.
Most repeaters would default to a nationwide reflector or talkgroup (depending on the technology used) and can be relinked through a menu on the handset. They also support callsign to callsign calling (without having to know which repeater the called party is using). There's websites where you can view activity and listen live to the reflectors. So there's some real nice benefits to it.
But I understand the difficulty of getting internet onto a highsite. We've had the same problem at our local repeater. With some digital modes like D-Star it's possible to place the internet gateway elsewhere within range of the repeater and retain full functionality, but with DMR it's not. I presume it also isn't possible with C4FM fusion. I don't know enough about it.
Edit: thanks to you both for your answers by the way! I'm still debating whether to get a radio. They all have APRS too which is a nice bonus, I've always wanted to have that in the car. But I think I might leave it for now A mobile which I'd want the most is still fairly expensive if you add up the extras like the remote head kit. But if C4FM takes off in Ireland I'll get one.
A dmr handheld with the hotspot dongle is probably the way to go if you just want to use the linking capability.
There may be another Yaesu fusion repeater going online this year a bit further south but I won't give details yet as it has not been confirmed that this route is being taken yet (along with the licensing process). It's not for the digital capability - it's just a cheap system.0 -
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Screen Shot 2016-04-30 at 23.01.19.png
Got approval from Comreg today for the new repeater in the Dunkineely area.
It will be on 2 meters, will be using both analogue and Yeasu's Digital Fusion system.
Mast going up Monday so, will be ordering repeater and duplexers over the next month or so.
The call sign will be : EI-2-JPG
Regards Gerry
EI-6-HGB
Heading up that direction tomorrow so I'll have a go off itGekkePrutser wrote: »I wouldn't want to bother a whole repeater with the Dutch talkgroups I use a lot - it wouldn't interest anyone else in Ireland.
Twould interest me 0 -
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