Doggy nightmares....

TopTec

I have two beautiful Shih Tzu's, Holly 10 years and Callie 11. Callie is slightly overweight but otherwise both are healthy with regular check-ups. We live in an old farm cottage and walk the fields and lanes twice a day in the winter. At night they both sleep in the bedroom, mainly on the bed, but occasionally in their own dog bed. Callie is an inveterate snorer.

About 18 months ago I was woken in the middle of the night by Callie screaming like a banshee for about 4 or 5 seconds. The noise was dreadful, like she was in serious pain. She was clearly sound asleep at the time and woke herself with the cry. She settled within 30 seconds or so and went straight back to sleep. It frightened the life out of me and took me a LOT longer to settle.

I mentioned the incident to the vet and she suggested it might just have been some painful wind or similar but as she was clearly healthy not to worry.

However. The crying incidents have become more and more regular. Last night was the second time this week. I have become tuned into her sleeping and usually wake up a split second before she screams. She is always deeply asleep lying on her side. As usual she settles within a minute and does not seem to be further distressed. The screaming noise is heart wrenching in its intensity.

I now wonder whether she is having some form of night mare? Is that possible? I also wonder whether it is connected with her weight? Any hints from anybody would be appreciated.

Thanks.

TT

goz83

I have 2 lab crosses. They're about 10 now. For the past couple of years, one of them is dreaming and audibly barking in his dream. It comes out like a murmer under his breath. Nothing like what you are describing though.

maggiepip

It doesn't sound like normal nightmares. My dogs sometimes have a nightmare and you'd see them twitching a bit and maybe whimpering or growling. But screaming as if in extreme pain sounds a bit worrying. If it had only happened once I wouldn't be concerned but you say its recurring now. Could she be having a small seizure? Did the vet do any blood tests or anything? How does the vet know she's "clearly healthy"?

jimf

is it possible she is too warm in the room at night I do remember reading something years ago about excess heat having something to do with dogs having night terrors

TopTec

Hi Folks.

When I say clearly healthy it means exactly that. She eats well, is bright, active and alert. No problems with digestion, stools or movement. Bearing in mind her age, she till chases her favourite ball and will go after hares and rabbits across the fields. The only time she complains is when it is raining and I put her raincoat on! The vet didn't see a need for blood tests when we last went in November. I tend to draw away from a seizure theory as it only happens in the dead of night, only once and never during the day. She is often in a deep sleep in the afternoon/evening after a good walk.

It happened again last night, 4am, the same cry, breath and then a whimper. 5 seconds later she is sound asleep again. They both have doggy dreams, twitches and faint murmuring, like they are chasing cats in their dreams. Callie's nightmare noise is nothing like that.

It is interesting that you mention temperature jimf. They both have full coats at the moment and although I don't like a warm room at night but it might be too warm for them. I like to have a window open at night but recently have it closed because of the amount of screaming from the foxes mating in the forestry nearby. Both of them will growl and bark at any noise outside. I might try to cool the room over the next few weeks.

A trip to the vet is looming in any case for a pet passport update so will discuss it further with her. Still worrying though.

Thanks

TT

maggiepip

The heat is a really good point, could it be that if its too warm its affecting her breathing in some way? Maybe drying out her airway and causing a sudden type of sleep apnea / stopping breathing for a few seconds, which is frightening her and causing the screaming. My husband has suffered from sleep apnea, and it has caused him to jump out of bed running around in a panic half awake half asleep. You mentioned she snores as well.

jimf

TopTec wrote: »

Hi Folks.

When I say clearly healthy it means exactly that. She eats well, is bright, active and alert. No problems with digestion, stools or movement. Bearing in mind her age, she till chases her favourite ball and will go after hares and rabbits across the fields. The only time she complains is when it is raining and I put her raincoat on! The vet didn't see a need for blood tests when we last went in November. I tend to draw away from a seizure theory as it only happens in the dead of night, only once and never during the day. She is often in a deep sleep in the afternoon/evening after a good walk.

It happened again last night, 4am, the same cry, breath and then a whimper. 5 seconds later she is sound asleep again. They both have doggy dreams, twitches and faint murmuring, like they are chasing cats in their dreams. Callie's nightmare noise is nothing like that.

It is interesting that you mention temperature jimf. They both have full coats at the moment and although I don't like a warm room at night but it might be too warm for them. I like to have a window open at night but recently have it closed because of the amount of screaming from the foxes mating in the forestry nearby. Both of them will growl and bark at any noise outside. I might try to cool the room over the next few weeks.

A trip to the vet is looming in any case for a pet passport update so will discuss it further with her. Still worrying though.

Thanks

TT

imho I would not be too concerned if its only a night issue seizures you would imagine would show up in a different pattern

I will see if I can dig up the item I was reading and post a link if I can find it

DBB

jimf wrote: »

imho I would not be too concerned if its only a night issue seizures you would imagine would show up in a different pattern

The vast majority of my Shih Tsu x spaniel's epileptic seizures happen in the dead of night.
There is simply no way of telling that a dog is epileptic by their normal, jovial daytime activities, nor by blood tests. The only indicator is the seizures. Blood tests, however, should be carried out as seizures can be caused be an underlying health issue, particularly when the seizures start in a dog over 4-5 yrs of age. The seizures may be the only symptom you'll outwardly see, for some time.
My dog shrieks during seizures, particularly as she's coming out of the very active, convulsive part of the seizure. If you missed the convulsive bit, you'd be at a loss to know why she's shrieking. That said, she usually wets herself during the convulsions... Not always, but usually.
I'm not saying your dog is seizing op... But don't rule it out just yet.

jimf

thanks for that info dbb I have never had a dog tg suffer seizures why do you think its more common in some dogs at night time is it something to do with brain activity or what

DBB

jimf wrote: »

thanks for that info dbb I have never had a dog tg suffer seizures why do you think its more common in some dogs at night time is it something to do with brain activity or what

Almost certainly jimf, they seem to be most likely to happen as the dog is in, or perhaps in the process of coming out of deep, deep sleep. Whilst I know the op says their dog sleeps deeply during the day, daytime sleep is never as deep as night-time sleep, simply because daytime noises keep the dog in a shallower sleep... That's just my opinion now!
OP, I'd be very tempted, were I in your shoes, to borrow an infra-red trail-cam from someone, set it to video mode, and point it towards your dog during the night... They're activated by movement. It'd be very interesting to see what's going on, if anything, prior to the shrieking.

DeVore

(slight aside)... Are dogs not supposed to yip and growl in their sleep? Josh does it all the time, paws twitching and sounds like he's barking in a very muffled and sleep-talky way. I just presumed he was chasing cats in his sleep... he does it about every second night and that's just the times I hear him... never seemed to be anything to worry about, unlike the OP, who is clearly describing something much worse. I just wondered because other comments made it seem people think it is unusual.

Valentina

DeVore wrote: »

(slight aside)... Are dogs not supposed to yip and growl in their sleep? Josh does it all the time, paws twitching and sounds like he's barking in a very muffled and sleep-talky way. I just presumed he was chasing cats in his sleep... he does it about every second night and that's just the times I hear him... never seemed to be anything to worry about, unlike the OP, who is clearly describing something much worse. I just wondered because other comments made it seem people think it is unusual.

I currently have 4 dogs and have had many other dogs as part of the family over my lifetime. Without exception they have all snored, farted, barked, yipped, whimpered and growled in their sleep as well as wagged their tails, twitched their faces, ears, legs and toes.

My dog does all of the above! Haven't a clue what she dreams about. Except when she's wagging her tail. Then I know she's dreaming about me!

TopTec

Some very interesting points brought up. I have had dogs all my life from Tibs, Danes, Labs and now these two perishers. Almost all have had doggy dreams with twitches, farts, and yipping but nothing like this single scream.

Callie is the one that snores and the sleep apnea is an interesting theory. I too have had a friend who suffered from it and I remember he would suddenly jerk upright and moan like a ghost after some dreadful snoring, (Not a popular hotel room mate!) She is in a deep part of her sleep cycle when it happens.

Could it be seizures? I am 50-50 on this.. mainly because the length of time the process is taking. I am a light sleeper and I think I have woken up moments before the shrieking. The good thing and a great idea is the trail cam idea Dbb. I have three of them, all deployed on a local stream at the moment looking for otters so I will bring one of them in and try both the infra red and the timelapse pointing at the bed.

(I will have to remember to wear pyjamas in case I have to show my nice female vet !!)

I have had the window open over the past two nights... it is cooler in there and so far nothing has occurred. Crossed fingers.

Might publish the results on here too.

Thanks all

TT

DBB

TopTec wrote: »

I am a light sleeper and I think I have woken up moments before the shrieking.

I wonder what's waking you up in the first place?

The good thing and a great idea is the trail cam idea Dbb. I have three of them, all deployed on a local stream at the moment looking for otters so I will bring one of them in and try both the infra red and the timelapse pointing at the bed.

See? It was meant to be! Hope you don't miss the otter though... I can sense a KitKat moment coming on here!

(I will have to remember to wear pyjamas in case I have to show my nice female vet !!)

I had one pointed at my dog when we were trying to figure out what was going on... You are inclined to forget it's there alright

sadie1502

I had a Shih tzu for eighteen years. He had those seizures as he got older they got worse and he used to convulse when he had this fits. It was terrifying. But he lived until he was 18 we adored him. He used to wet himself too when this occurred but he would snap out of it and was fine. Take him to the vet and see what they say. Best to get it checked.

TopTec

sadie1502 wrote: »

Take him to the vet and see what they say. Best to get it checked.

Already have... see first post.

sadie1502 wrote: »

He had those seizures as he got older they got worse and he used to convulse when he had this fits

Could you provide more information? When did they happen? For how long? Did he have treatment?

TT

sadie1502

They could happen at any point. There were no triggers as far as we could sumise. He didn't have them as a younger dog. I can't remember what age they started to but definitely as he got older it started. We had to take a log and describe the fits times what he was doing prior etc did ran tests. He was on tablets for it. Can't remember the name of them as he is dead a few years now but he had a good life with treatment. You're dog may not have it at all might be an upset tummy possibly.