Contract issue

Harriet123 · 09-03-2016 11:01pm #1

To start my contract is 20years old I have worked the same mon to fri full time loyal and very good employee. We now have a girl who is going on maternity leave who works a weekend shift which she says she won't be able to do when she returns to work as previous staff have been allowed to do after maternity leave. So the boss is looking at changing the contracts to accommodate her. She has been working with us for about 6 years but I am not willing to change at this stage in life to include weekends. I don't have a family and will never have one so I am wondering if he is changing my contract because of this issue as it will mean less hassle when it comes to people coming back from maternity.. My question is can he legally discriminate against me and change a contract to suit him.

ted1 · 09-03-2016 11:03pm

Harriet123 wrote: »

To start my contract is 20years old I have worked the same mon to fri full time loyal and very good employee. We now have a girl who is going on maternity leave who works a weekend shift which she says she won't be able to do when she returns to work as previous staff have been allowed to do after maternity leave. So the boss is looking at changing the contracts to accommodate her. She has been working with us for about 6 years but I am not willing to change at this stage in life to include weekends. I don't have a family and will never have one so I am wondering if he is changing my contract because of this issue as it will mean less hassle when it comes to people coming back from maternity.. My question is can he legally discriminate against me and change a contract to suit him.

If he did and you quit, there's a string case for constructive dismissal as he fundamentally changed your working conditions

simdan · 09-03-2016 11:09pm

Why does your contract have to change? Surely he could rewrite the girls contract as long as she accepts of course. There are many different contracts for employees at the same level in my company.

kenmccarthy · 09-03-2016 11:17pm

Basically the answer is NO....a contract cannot be changed unilaterally without the consent of both employer AND employee. After 20 years precencence any attempt to alter/modify your employment contract to your detriment wouldn't be permitted....only IF it was with your agreement

Harriet123 · 09-03-2016 11:22pm

Because he wants to include me in weekend rota.. We are a small company so there I isn't many people to fill the position. This girl was hired to work weekends I was not. If the other girls who work weekends starts to get pregnant and not want to work I am worried I will be landed with more if he changes contract now..

simdan · 09-03-2016 11:23pm

Harriet123 wrote:

Because he wants to include me in weekend rota.. We are a small company so there I isn't many people to fill the position. This girl was hired to work weekends I was not. If the other girls who work weekends starts to get pregnant and not want to work I am worried I will be landed with more if he changes contract now..

Please read above. He cannot change your contract without your agreement.

Mrs OBumble · 10-03-2016 12:21am

simdan wrote: »

Please read above. He cannot change your contract without your agreement.

But if you do not agree, he could choose to make you redundant. Probably won't 'cos it would cost him a bit. But could.

And to return to your original question, this is not discrimination. It's simply re-organising the way the business operates. Which an employer is entitled to do.

uck51js9zml2yt · 10-03-2016 1:14am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But if you do not agree, he could choose to make you redundant. Probably won't 'cos it would cost him a bit. But could.

And to return to your original question, this is not discrimination. It's simply re-organising the way the business operates. Which an employer is entitled to do.

His job would have to no longer exist to be made redundant. This would not be the case.

An employer can't unilaterally change an employee contract.

Harriet123 · 10-03-2016 3:45am

Thank you all this has been helpful
At least he can't fire me when I decline I hope😁

mitresize5 · 10-03-2016 1:39pm

Don't wait for this to be presented to you as a fait accompli

Get in now and tell him you are not interested in working weekends. Be polite about it but firm if needs be.

TBH this drives me mad at times. The fact that working parents decide to have kids should never adversely affect other employees.

It leads to resentment and bad blood by those affected and rightly so. This ladies role should not change as a result of her having a child if it effects other employees.

This is her and her partners and your bosses problem - not yours

BTW - We are a young family who regularly have all the madness associated with that and I would never expect a colleague life to suffer as a result

Mrs OBumble · 10-03-2016 3:02pm

Claudia Short Ballplayer wrote: »

His job would have to no longer exist to be made redundant. This would not be the case.

An employer can't unilaterally change an employee contract.

But his job (weekdays-only widget-woggler) does not still exist.

The jobs of all employees are being changed so that they all take turns as providing weekend cover, instead of allowing some to be week-days only and some weekends only.

An employer cannot unilaterally change a contract, agreed. But if there are changes to be made, and employer can make them and will have to pay off those employees who don't agree.

Harriet123 · 10-03-2016 3:17pm

My boss is well aware of my objections... I have no interest in joining a weekend rota to suit mothers to be and already people who are mothers so they can have an easier work life at my expense. I feel I am being targeted due to the fact I can't have children so I can't ask to reduce my working hours due to kids at home.. Ps my job is still the same this will be extra work on top of everything I already do.. Also I am these girls manager which will also not change.

Harriet123 · 10-03-2016 5:12pm

By he way I am female.

livedadream · 10-03-2016 5:15pm

Harriet123 wrote: »

My boss is well aware of my objections... I have no interest in joining a weekend rota to suit mothers to be and already people who are mothers so they can have an easier work life at my expense. I feel I am being targeted due to the fact I can't have children so I can't ask to reduce my working hours due to kids at home.. Ps my job is still the same this will be extra work on top of everything I already do.. Also I am these girls manager which will also not change.

others have said it but ill add to it,

you are not being discriminated against.

you contact cant be changed without your permission HOWEVER your contact may say something like flexible hours or not guaranteed the same hours, its all depends (im guessing if it was written 20 years ago it wont)

Be reasonable with your boss, tell them you do not wish to work weekends.
If he says well t e business needs have changed then you don't have a leg to stand on.

Thats life if you work for a business thats open on weekends you must be prepared to work available hours. (this goes for the very 'active' women you seem to work with also)

mitresize5 · 11-03-2016 12:03am

I disagree.

This has constructive dismissal written all over it for an employees of this long standing.

The needs of the business haven't changed, the needs of some employees have. There is a huge difference.

If I were you I'd be fighting this all the way.

Having said all that id be taking proper legal advice on this

mitresize5 · 11-03-2016 12:06am

I disagree.

This has constructive dismissal written all over it for an employees of this long standing.

The needs of the business haven't changed, the needs of some employees have. There is a huge difference.

If I were you I'd be fighting this all the way.

Having said all that id be taking proper legal advice on this

kenmccarthy · 11-03-2016 12:38am

An employer cannot change/alter the terms of an employment contract at 'will' ...... this isn't north korea......if an employer could change a contact sure what would be the point of drawing up & signing a contract in the first place.

National employment rights organisation ( NERO ) have a good websiye7

livedadream · 11-03-2016 10:39am

mitresize5 wrote: »

I disagree.

This has constructive dismissal written all over it for an employees of this long standing.

The needs of the business haven't changed, the needs of some employees have. There is a huge difference.

If I were you I'd be fighting this all the way.

Having said all that id be taking proper legal advice on this

different strokes, if shes been there 20 years in general 20 years ago contracts didnt exist and if they did they were one pagers.

there are two sides, she is also being inflexible, there is no reason for her to not work weekends other than she doesnt want to.

I agree that the contract cant be changed without her consent but ive also seen it happen that the boss can turn around and say the business needs have changed, it all depends on what job she does.

Changing it to suit girls getting preggers isnt fair but that doenst make it illegal or a breach of unfair dismissals or she constructively dismiss's herself.

mitresize5 · 11-03-2016 12:38pm

No employer in there right mind would go to a tribunal to defend changing 20 year old work practices because other employees family situation changed.

Whether the OP wants to go down that route is another question. I certainly would.

livedadream · 11-03-2016 2:05pm

mitresize5 wrote: »

No employer in there right mind would go to a tribunal to defend changing 20 year old work practices because other employees family situation changed.

Whether the OP wants to go down that route is another question. I certainly would.

i agree, but it doesnt mean it doesnt happen.

cart before the house though, she might go to her employer say i dont agree to my contract being changed, historical contract etc and be fine.

Mrs OBumble · 11-03-2016 3:07pm

Harriet123 wrote: »

Also I am these girls manager which will also not change.

So you manage staff, but are not willing to be there during some of the hours that they are there. And you are being dismissive towards your staff, referring to women who have had babies as mere "girls".

If I was your manager, you would be be getting a swift kick in the rear end, metaphorically speaking of course.

I'll stand by my earlier opinion: the manager can choose to change your contract, but if you don't agree to do the new job, he has to pay you off. But I now feel a good deal less sympathetic towards you.

If it bothers you that you cannot have children but your staff are doing so, then I'd suggest some counselling: you will find it difficult to manage effectively if you have a chip on your shoulder.

mitresize5 · 11-03-2016 5:48pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If it bothers you that you cannot have children but your staff are doing so, then I'd suggest some counselling: you will find it difficult to manage effectively if you have a chip on your shoulder.

Thats an outrageous comment.

At no point in this thread has that lady insinuated anything of the sort. She doesnt want to work weekends because she hasnt had to in 20 years

You have no idea of that persons life or background and jumping to those conclusions is way out of order and I assume extremely hurtful

Pkiernan · 11-03-2016 9:15pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So you manage staff, but are not willing to be there during some of the hours that they are there. And you are being dismissive towards your staff, referring to women who have had babies as mere "girls".

If I was your manager, you would be be getting a swift kick in the rear end, metaphorically speaking of course.

I'll stand by my earlier opinion: the manager can choose to change your contract, but if you don't agree to do the new job, he has to pay you off. But I now feel a good deal less sympathetic towards you.

If it bothers you that you cannot have children but your staff are doing so, then I'd suggest some counselling: you will find it difficult to manage effectively if you have a chip on your shoulder.

WTF? ????

Cop yourself on.

the_pen_turner · 12-03-2016 1:23am

I think these hours are on top of the weeks work.

tell your boss that you need personal time away from work to keep your work life balance

tell the boss that you would be caught for extra tax and that the extra hours would not result in any extra money in your pocket.

tell your boss that you will be taking those days in lieu of money along with your increase in holidays

you should donate some of your days off to charities or sick kids etc. its very hard to argue that you want someone to come in on their day of instead of feeding homeless or helping sick kids.
only joking really but it would show the boss to be a monster

Fluffy Cat 88 · 12-03-2016 1:35am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So you manage staff, but are not willing to be there during some of the hours that they are there. And you are being dismissive towards your staff, referring to women who have had babies as mere "girls".

If I was your manager, you would be be getting a swift kick in the rear end, metaphorically speaking of course.

I'll stand by my earlier opinion: the manager can choose to change your contract, but if you don't agree to do the new job, he has to pay you off. But I now feel a good deal less sympathetic towards you.

If it bothers you that you cannot have children but your staff are doing so, then I'd suggest some counselling: you will find it difficult to manage effectively if you have a chip on your shoulder.

For the sake of fcuk!!!

Us child free beings are not all bitter and twisted, many of us choose to live our lives sans-sprog!

Op, explain to your boss you will not be available for weekend work.

Hope it all works out for you.

Dilly. · 12-03-2016 1:52am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If it bothers you that you cannot have children but your staff are doing so, then I'd suggest some counselling: you will find it difficult to manage effectively if you have a chip on your shoulder.

how dare you!

Not everyone who doesn't have children has an issue or problem with it, for many it is a life choice. Your comment is extremely judgemental and damn right rude!

This isn't the first time you've advised someone they need counselling based on nothing but your own presumptions, it's very strange and reflects more on you than it does on them.

Dilly. · 12-03-2016 2:01am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And you are being dismissive towards your staff, referring to women who have had babies as mere "girls".

And also the hypocrisy!! You're referring to women who don't have children as being in need of counselling.

Stheno · 12-03-2016 7:25pm

Mod: No more discussion on peoples decisions/choices on having children.

Warnings have been given out already.

Mrs OBumble · 12-03-2016 8:38pm

This is absolutely nothing to do with choices, the OP has already told us that:

Harriet123 wrote: »

I feel I am being targeted due to the fact I can't have children

And I would agree that she likely is being targeted for this reason: it is quite normal for employers to expect child-free people (for whatever reason) to work more than their fair share of unsociable hours, to take holidays during non-holiday periods, to stay late to cover problems etc. I've certainly experienced this (being childless). And many people would think that's it's actually the right thing for an employer to do.

If the OP was not the manager of the women concerned, then I would feel total sympathy for her position.

But she's told us that she is middle management. In pretty much every other business on the planet, being middle management means that, at least sometimes, you work the same hours that your staff do. I'm actually quite surprised that the employer has allowed this situation to go on for so long already.

Contract issue

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